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Why Rogue One doesn't work well as a prequel to Star Wars — Page 2

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thebluefrog said:

Prequels barely work in general.

Can people really come up with any prequels outside of SW that enhance the original?

Infernal Affairs II
Twin Peaks Fire Walk With Me

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thebluefrog said:

Prequels barely work in general.

Can people really come up with any prequels outside of SW that enhance the original?

Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom. Technically a prequel because chronologically it takes place before RotLA but has no bearing on the latter.

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NeverarGreat said:

thebluefrog said:

Prequels barely work in general.

Can people really come up with any prequels outside of SW that enhance the original?

Temple of Doom.

Does that really have any impact at all on the original? Does it change anything about the storyline or characters in Indy 1?

Temple of Doom may be a good MOVIE, but does it actually have any relevance as a prequel? Could it be a sequel and change nothing?

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thebluefrog said:

Prequels barely work in general.

Can people really come up with any prequels outside of SW that enhance the original?

Better Call Saul

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thebluefrog said:

NeverarGreat said:

thebluefrog said:

Prequels barely work in general.

Can people really come up with any prequels outside of SW that enhance the original?

Temple of Doom.

Does that really have any impact at all on the original? Does it change anything about the storyline or characters in Indy 1?

Temple of Doom may be a good MOVIE, but does it actually have any relevance as a prequel? Could it be a sequel and change nothing?

You’re right, it could be a sequel. It’s just the first thing that popped into my head. 😉

You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Workprint V4 Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)

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thebluefrog said:

Prequels barely work in general.

Can people really come up with any prequels outside of SW that enhance the original?

Godfather Part II is both a sequel and a prequel to the original Godfather, but it could have possibly worked just as well if it had exclusively been a prequel.

EDIT: With that in mind I do agree with what you’re saying, that prequels are challenging to write by their very nature.

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Infernal Affairs II
Twin Peaks Fire Walk With Me

Better Call Saul

These were referenced above–now, I haven’t really watched much of them, but are people saying them because they are good PREQUELS or because they’re just good QUALITY? What did they change about the perception of the original story?

A good prequel would need to actively change or impact something in the original. Otherwise it’s basically a (good quality) standalone story–it may as well be a sequel. Like the Temple of Doom example, the fact that it’s a prequel changes nothing at all about the Indy 1 character. If it were a sequel, it’d be exactly the same.

An example of a prequel changing the original would be Vader. REGARDLESS of whether you think it was a good or bad change, OT Vader was written and designed to be a menacing, imposing figure. We did not know what his face or personality was as Anakin.

PT Anakin was not written to be menacing or imposing–now, remember, this isn’t about personal like or dislike for the writing or characterization. This is just an example of how a prequel changes the original, because now OT Vader has a face and personality underneath the mask…and I bet PT Anakin was NOT what anyone, anywhere, envisioned what he was like.

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I think one of the main reasons there aren’t more good prequels is that they work best when recontextualizing the world, characters, or events of the original film in a way that makes them better in hindsight. However, if the film badly needs this recontextualization it usually wouldn’t be a good enough film to financially or creatively warrant any prequel or sequel. This leaves making prequels to successful, self contained stories that have narratively ended which almost always ends up lessening the impact of the original, not improving it.

Also, people are usually really drawn to the characters and world of the original films, which is why they would be interested in making prequels to them, and this means that unless they’re a madman like George they won’t significantly change the world or characters resulting in flat or nonexistent arcs like the monolithically powerful Rebellion in RO compared to later films.

You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Workprint V4 Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)

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thebluefrog said:

Infernal Affairs II
Twin Peaks Fire Walk With Me

Better Call Saul

These were referenced above–now, I haven’t really watched much of them, but are people saying them because they are good PREQUELS or because they’re just good QUALITY? What did they change about the perception of the original story?

I chose these specifically, and didn’t pick Temple of Doom or The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly for example.

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Mocata said:

thebluefrog said:

Infernal Affairs II
Twin Peaks Fire Walk With Me

Better Call Saul

These were referenced above–now, I haven’t really watched much of them, but are people saying them because they are good PREQUELS or because they’re just good QUALITY? What did they change about the perception of the original story?

I chose these specifically, and didn’t pick Temple of Doom or The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly for example.

What did they change and impact regarding the original story and characters?

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recontextualizing the world, characters, or events of the original film in a way that makes them better in hindsight

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Mocata said:

recontextualizing the world, characters, or events of the original film in a way that makes them better in hindsight

Yup. That’s why I like Better Call Saul. It makes Saul Goodman/Jimmy McGill’s arc more compelling, as well as the Salamanca family-Gus Fring conflict. It also makes Walter White’s achievements all the more impressive in Breaking Bad, as he was able to annihilate all of these people.

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Jyn’s motivation changes throughout the film. She goes from trying to erase her past mistakes, on to finding Saw Gerrera and learning about her father, then to fixing her father’s mistakes. That was her motivation.

She didn’t want to be the daughter of the man who created the death star. She wanted to be the proud daughter who brought down her father’s death star at his request.

The reason for the Vader hallway scene was to show the audience just how evil this villain is, and why the heroes are fighting back against this tyrant throughout the original trilogy.

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Meh, I’ve posted previously that while Vader’s hallway slaughter looks cool, it’s not impressive because he’s just killing a bunch of frightened rebels who are clearly no match for him.

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Hallway scene is only ‘cool’ because we care about Vader. Otherwise he’s a monster committing atrocities. It’s a terrifying scene, if you shut your eyes it’s like you’re listening to a psychopath in a horror movie killing desperate people. For someone that doesn’t know Vader, that’s just scary and evil incarnate.

For me, it was the first time I saw him as purely a monster too, no personal motivation, just a hateful killing machine slaughtering people fighting against tyranny. His ‘evilness’ in the original Star Wars is shadowed by Tarkin’s for the most part, and in Empire and Jedi it becomes personal so it’s less cold. In Rogue One it’s just pure, free and needles hate. And on top of that, for us fans, it does look cool as well. I don’t see a problem with it.

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I’ve never been a huge fan of the hallway scene. It’s always come off to me like that’s not something Vader would do, never in the OT does he go around chopping up Rebels with his lightsaber. He doesn’t slice and dice Echo Base, and 15 minutes after Rogue One he doesn’t hallway scene the Tantive IV a second time. The Sith most likely to do that feels like Maul. Vader is a military guy, Palpatine is a politician, Dooku is somewhere in between those two. Maul is the deranged serial killer who’d chop up a room of rebels.

Death of the Author

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I think if the Vader scene had some lead-up, such as a scene where the Rebels worry about this ‘Vader’ character that seems to be close to discovering their operation, then it would work a lot better. As it is it comes rather out of left field in the context of the film and feels gratuitous in its horror and violence. I wouldn’t say it portrays Vader as a cool badass, but I understand why some would think this way.

In any case, RO’s problems are bigger than this one scene.

You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Workprint V4 Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)

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I think the hallway scene is the worst part of that already-awful movie. It just feels like a slasher movie bit got stuck in the wrong series. I tend to dislike people who like that scene, especially the ones who want roughly two hours of it in an “R-rated horror movie.” I also find that a certain crowd that likes this scene also enjoy harassing people who worked on the ST, so…

R1 fails the “eight deadly words” for me. Not even AOTC and TROS did that.

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Vader was only trying to get the plans that were stolen. All these people were in his way shooting at him, it’s either sit there and let the firing squad kill him, or mow them down with a lightsaber. I myself, in that situation would have done the same thing.

Because if he loses the plans, he has to face the Emperor and the consequences for failing.

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BedeHistory731 said:

I think the hallway scene is the worst part of that already-awful movie. It just feels like a slasher movie bit got stuck in the wrong series. I tend to dislike people who like that scene, especially the ones who want roughly two hours of it in an “R-rated horror movie.” I also find that a certain crowd that likes this scene also enjoy harassing people who worked on the ST, so…

R1 fails the “eight deadly words” for me. Not even AOTC and TROS did that.

It’s my least favourite scene in the film too. However overall I really like the film. It’s a toss up between Rogue One and The Last Jedi as my favourite film of this era.

My unpopular Rogue One opinion is that I prefer the beginning of the film to the ending. I love the scenes on Jedha and with Chirrut the most. It feels like a sacred place with a history of origins and connections to a bygone era. Chirrut is also a very intriguing character. I like that he’s blind as I too have vision issues. However what I don’t like most is the CGI characters. They’re not enough for me to hate the film but they’re the one aspect I’m not entirely sure how I feel.

"Pleasure’s fun. It’s great, but you can’t keep it going forever; just accept the fact that it’s here and it’s gone, and maybe then again, it will come back, and you’ll get to do it again. Joy lasts forever. Pleasure is purely self-centered. It’s all about your pleasure: it’s about you. It’s a selfish, self-centered emotion, that is created by a self-centered motive of greed. Joy is compassion. Joy is giving yourself to somebody else, or something else. And it’s a kind of thing that is, in its subtlety and lowness, much more powerful than pleasure. You get hung up on pleasure; you’re doomed. If you pursue joy; you will find everlasting happiness.” - George Lucas

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I’d be more open to watching “The Edwards Cut” (the mess the movie was before reshoots), because that would at least be a hilarious mess and not a dour mess.

Like, let’s be real: the Snyder Cut is still a mediocre-to-bad miniseries/movie. It’s just good-looking compared to the Whedon Cut.

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It didn’t feel out of character of the Vader we see in Revenge of the Sith who cut down younglings. It doesn’t fit Vader in the original film though.

I mean its a sequel to Revenge of the Sith. It even has Jimmy Smits and prequel Mon Mothma Genevieve O’Reilly.