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Why ROTJ Feels Rushed

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ROTJ is the most Weak Movie of the OT although i really enjoy watching a Full Jedi Knight Luke it feels like the Story is going very fast as if they already wanted to Finish the Story i think that easy the OT it could have had 2 more Movies to make the Defeat of the Empire feel more satisfying and believable but no they even recycled the Death Star maybe as an act of Nostalgia because it was the Final Story of Star Wars i dont know but i feel like the Ewoks shouldnt have appeared in the Final Movie the Empire won in ESB and they were intimidating Villains but in ROTJ they were reduced as Comedy Act and you cant take them seriously anymore when they lose to the Ewoks i truly wish Irvin Kershner would have directed the Final Movie of the OT im sure it would have been a better Movie than ROTJ was i also wish we got a Sequels Movies of the OT in the late 80s or early 90s i wanted to see more of Jedi Knight Luke and him Rebuilding the Jedi Order is a shame that we never got that at least we have the EU Novels

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The third film in every Star Wars trilogy feels rushed and a little crammed with too much stuff. I’d argue that RotJ feels the least crammed, though. After reading JW Rinzler’s book on the making of RotJ, I understand a little better why Lucas and Kasdan made the creative choices they did and the rationales for them. The Death Star, for example. It was a choice made between blowing up another Death Star or blowing up “Had Abbadon” the Imperial City, and ultimately, reusing the Death Star was the more sensible option from a budget and special effects standpoint, as well as helping to streamline the 3rd act.

But we can’t turn back. Fear is their greatest defense. I doubt if the actual security there is any greater than it was on Aquilae or Sullust. And what there is is most likely directed towards a large-scale assault.

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I think what happened is that originally, Luke wasn’t going to face the Emperor until Episode 9. Or at least, that format was floated around as a possibility in the very-early 1980s during the very-early stages of conceptualizing Episode 6. Apparently, at a very early stage, the idea was to make Episode 6 an entire movie about the rescue of Han Solo, with Boba Fett as an antagonist. With this format, Episodes 7, 8 and 9 probably never materialized into anything resembling a concrete plot, except that in Episode 9 Luke would finally confront the Emperor at the Imperial Capital. Obviously, none of this happened, and the rescue of Han plus Luke vs. the Emperor were compressed into a single climactic movie, and (later in the production) the Imperial Capital was changed to Death Star 2.

However, I never really thought that ROTJ was too rushed, because I took it for granted that there would have to be many additional battles after Episode 6, before the Empire was completely defeated. The death of the Emperor brought an end to Luke’s arc and Vader’s arc, but the Empire itself would certainly continue to exist in some form for quite some time.

In retrospect, the biggest issue with ROTJ is that the first part of the movie is entirely disconnected from the rest of the movie, and the premise for the latter is mostly disconnected from all events that happened earlier. Nothing that happens in Jabba’s palace has any kind of causal relationship with the events after Han’s rescue. And the entire setup for infiltrating Endor (stealing shuttle Tyderium and all that) is just arbitrarily presented as a given that happened off-screen, with no connection to anything that happened earlier. Consider how in Episode 4, the assault on the Death Star 1 happens as a direct result of the actions of the main characters, whereas in Episode 6, the assault on Death Star 2 is simply presented arbitrarily as a starting premise, not as a logical consequence of prior events.

On the other hand, it’s nice that our 3 main characters aren’t responsible for literally every important thing the Rebel Alliance does. It’s a big galaxy, and there are other heroes going on other off-screen adventures, like those Bothan spies. But from a narrative/writing perspective, the circumstances enabling the assault on Death Star 2 are totally arbitrary. There’s also no well-defined ticking clock. Why should the assault take place now? (Well because it happens that now we have access to a stolen shuttle that was stolen off-screen, and an off-screen spy network that you never heard about before discovered that the Emperor is personally overseeing the Death Star’s construction. That’s why this is happening now, conveniently right after we wrapped up that side quest to save Han.) It comes off as arbitrary, because the premise doesn’t follow causally from anything that happened in the first half of the movie, nor anything that happened in the previous movie.

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Do we know at what point in production the ‘darker’ script with “Had Abbadon” (the Imperial City) was jettisoned for a ‘lighter’ script with re-use of the Death Star instead?

As Servii posted, it was the “more sensible option from a budget and special effects standpoint, as well as helping to streamline the 3rd act.” 100%.

And like Channel72 says, ROTJ does feel like two disconnected parts of a film. It doesn’t feel “rushed” to me, but given what we know about George not wanting to make a Sequel Trilogy anymore at the time, and wanting to wrap everything up in this, it does cram a lot in.

Irvin Kershner directing this? That is something to think on! I think we’d have seen more of aspects of the nature-based Ewoks defeating the tech-driven Empire in ROTJ if that had happened. Or I like to think it would. 😃

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Rushed isn’t the word I would choose considering how it drags in the middle. They should have just done something better there; both in terms of Yoda and Endor scenes.

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Mocata said:

Rushed isn’t the word I would choose considering how it drags in the middle. They should have just done something better there; both in terms of Yoda and Endor scenes.

Yeah, ironically the movie drags so badly once they get captured by the Ewoks. That’s when it’s time to change the channel.

Actually, I think a big problem is that the entire Endor ground team sequence is really just bland and visually uninspiring. It takes place in a boring forest in California that looks like a location where Star Wars fan-films are shot. Yeah, redwoods can be majestic and beautiful, but the cinematography never captures this. The whole sequence of meeting the Ewoks, going back to their village, etc. takes forever and barely anything interesting happens. And even after the battle begins, the small Imperial base with the shield generator is visually boring (something larger like that communications tower in Rogue One would be nicer). And throughout the entire battle, it always seems like Han, Leia and Chewie are the only Rebel Alliance fighters involved, because the camera almost never shows anyone else doing anything. It would help add some tension if we saw some of those other Rebel extras get killed, or at least participate. (Also, what were all those guys doing while the main trio was hanging out with Ewoks overnight?)

But the other two ending sequences (Luke vs. Vader and space battle above Endor) are so incredibly awesome that they compensate for the mediocrity of the ground battle. Also, the speeder bike chase is still pretty cool, as are the AT-STs (when they’re not tripping over logs).

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Channel72 said:

Mocata said:

Rushed isn’t the word I would choose considering how it drags in the middle. They should have just done something better there; both in terms of Yoda and Endor scenes.

Yeah, ironically the movie drags so badly once they get captured by the Ewoks. That’s when it’s time to change the channel.

Actually, I think a big problem is that the entire Endor ground team sequence is really just bland and visually uninspiring. It takes place in a boring forest in California that looks like a location where Star Wars fan-films are shot. Yeah, redwoods can be majestic and beautiful, but the cinematography never captures this. The whole sequence of meeting the Ewoks, going back to their village, etc. takes forever and barely anything interesting happens. And even after the battle begins, the small Imperial base with the shield generator is visually boring (something larger like that communications tower in Rogue One would be nicer). And throughout the entire battle, it always seems like Han, Leia and Chewie are the only Rebel Alliance fighters involved, because the camera almost never shows anyone else doing anything. It would help add some tension if we saw some of those other Rebel extras get killed, or at least participate. (Also, what were all those guys doing while the main trio was hanging out with Ewoks overnight?)

But the other two ending sequences (Luke vs. Vader and space battle above Endor) are so incredibly awesome that they compensate for the mediocrity of the ground battle. Also, the speeder bike chase is still pretty cool, as are the AT-STs (when they’re not tripping over logs).

Years ago I thought it would be something that George would address in one of his Special Edition releases. There has been many fan rumours of making the Ewoks more vicious, and that there may be some changes made to them, or more of them being added, being injured or killed (or lying still on the ground), although just blinking eyes was enough for George.

It wouldn’t have been an expensive or difficult thing to shoot: a few guys in Rebel uniforms and a few guys in stormtrooper outfits, a few Ewoks, an overall plan for an additional few minutes of footage, and a few days of filming. There are a number of cutaway scenes away from the main bunker, usually showing how the Ewoks took downs the AT-STs and troops. Any new scenes could have easily been cut into those.

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Juno Eclipse said:

Channel72 said:

Mocata said:

Rushed isn’t the word I would choose considering how it drags in the middle. They should have just done something better there; both in terms of Yoda and Endor scenes.

Yeah, ironically the movie drags so badly once they get captured by the Ewoks. That’s when it’s time to change the channel.

Actually, I think a big problem is that the entire Endor ground team sequence is really just bland and visually uninspiring. It takes place in a boring forest in California that looks like a location where Star Wars fan-films are shot. Yeah, redwoods can be majestic and beautiful, but the cinematography never captures this. The whole sequence of meeting the Ewoks, going back to their village, etc. takes forever and barely anything interesting happens. And even after the battle begins, the small Imperial base with the shield generator is visually boring (something larger like that communications tower in Rogue One would be nicer). And throughout the entire battle, it always seems like Han, Leia and Chewie are the only Rebel Alliance fighters involved, because the camera almost never shows anyone else doing anything. It would help add some tension if we saw some of those other Rebel extras get killed, or at least participate. (Also, what were all those guys doing while the main trio was hanging out with Ewoks overnight?)

But the other two ending sequences (Luke vs. Vader and space battle above Endor) are so incredibly awesome that they compensate for the mediocrity of the ground battle. Also, the speeder bike chase is still pretty cool, as are the AT-STs (when they’re not tripping over logs).

Years ago I thought it would be something that George would address in one of his Special Edition releases. There has been many fan rumours of making the Ewoks more vicious, and that there may be some changes made to them, or more of them being added, being injured or killed (or lying still on the ground), although just blinking eyes was enough for George.

It wouldn’t have been an expensive or difficult thing to shoot: a few guys in Rebel uniforms and a few guys in stormtrooper outfits, a few Ewoks, an overall plan for an additional few minutes of footage, and a few days of filming. There are a number of cutaway scenes away from the main bunker, usually showing how the Ewoks took downs the AT-STs and troops. Any new scenes could have easily been cut into those.

The rebel soldiers on Endor do seem to disappear and re-appear in the fight scenes.

Has any of the actors who played the Rebel soldiers on Endor been interviewed or spoke about it? Was there more footage of them in action filmed, but simply discarded in the editing room, and didn’t make the final cut?

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These two threads are great for deleted scenes and storyboards for Return Of The Jedi, they do focus more on the space battles, but there is some also stuff on rebel soldiers in the Falcon from deleted scenes.

There may be something in there about the battle footage for the Forest on Endor scenes in the links or storyboards?:

Return Of The Jedi’s ‘Black Friday’ - 22nd November, 1982

Reconstructing the end of ROTJ with Storyboards

Like Juno, I thought we’d one day see more added footage with the Ewoks, Rebels and troopers in one of the Special Editions too.

The Imperial need for control is so desperate because it is so unnatural. Tyranny requires constant effort. It breaks, it leaks. Authority is brittle. Oppression is the mask of fear.

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I know there’s deleted footage of Han, Leia and Chewie infiltrating the base on Endor, with some of the other Rebel soldiers in the background. This footage would require some work if it were to be incorporated into a fan edit, because it’s very raw (proper sound effects would need to be added). But at least it shows the other Rebel soldiers actually existing and doing things, if only very briefly.

https://youtu.be/gJqRPV19vKM?t=303

But this is inside the base, not in the forest. It’s also one of the few scenes on Endor that actually has a “military commando special-ops” vibe befitting an operation to take out an enemy shield generator. Hilariously, it also highlights the absurdity of Han Solo not wearing military camouflage gear like everyone else, because you know he’s way too cool for that.

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Marooned Biker Scout said:

Has any of the actors who played the Rebel soldiers on Endor been interviewed or spoke about it? Was there more footage of them in action filmed, but simply discarded in the editing room, and didn’t make the final cut?

Not that I know of. This could help in tracking down if anyone talked about more scenes in the Endor forest being shot:

^ there is another similar image of the rebel commandos with Luke on the Death Star too.
 

Emre1601 said:

These two threads are great for deleted scenes and storyboards for Return Of The Jedi, they do focus more on the space battles, but there is some also stuff on rebel soldiers in the Falcon from deleted scenes.

There may be something in there about the battle footage for the Forest on Endor scenes in the links or storyboards?:

Return Of The Jedi’s ‘Black Friday’ - 22nd November, 1982

Reconstructing the end of ROTJ with Storyboards

Like Juno, I thought we’d one day see more added footage with the Ewoks, Rebels and troopers in one of the Special Editions too.

An amazing amount of information in those two threads. timdiggerm’s https://macrobinoculars.wordpress.com/ is a beautiful project.
 

Channel72 said:

I know there’s deleted footage of Han, Leia and Chewie infiltrating the base on Endor, with some of the other Rebel soldiers in the background. This footage would require some work if it were to be incorporated into a fan edit, because it’s very raw (proper sound effects would need to be added). But at least it shows the other Rebel soldiers actually existing and doing things, if only very briefly.

https://youtu.be/gJqRPV19vKM?t=303

But this is inside the base, not in the forest. It’s also one of the few scenes on Endor that actually has a “military commando special-ops” vibe befitting an operation to take out an enemy shield generator. Hilariously, it also highlights the absurdity of Han Solo not wearing military camouflage gear like everyone else, because you know he’s way too cool for that.

I really enjoyed watching those scenes, the “military commando special-ops” vibe is great to see, a pity it wasn’t finished and didn’t make the final cut. Yarso ago there was a project on here (I think) to add certain scenes from the 2 Ewok movies, and from some high quality fan films to insert into a more adult-feeling “ROTJ: Longer Edition” edit. I hope it got finished and released.

Lol on Solo and the camouflage gear. I can easily picture him telling George: “I don’t care, I’m Han Solo and I am not wearing that!”

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Juno Eclipse said:

Marooned Biker Scout said:

Has any of the actors who played the Rebel soldiers on Endor been interviewed or spoke about it? Was there more footage of them in action filmed, but simply discarded in the editing room, and didn’t make the final cut?

Not that I know of. This could help in tracking down if anyone talked about more scenes in the Endor forest being shot:

^ there is another similar image of the rebel commandos with Luke on the Death Star too.
 

Those promo pics are kind of cool, but also a little WTF?! They certainly get the imagination flowing for possible story arcs, “what could have been”, or abandoned plot lines. Before settling back into them just being cool PR images.

Imagine that type of thing getting leaked today for the Disney+ Star Wars series? The meltdown of it all! 😃

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Marooned Biker Scout said:

Those promo pics are kind of cool, but also a little WTF?! They certainly get the imagination flowing for possible story arcs, “what could have been”, or abandoned plot lines. Before settling back into them just being cool PR images.

Imagine that type of thing getting leaked today for the Disney+ Star Wars series? The meltdown of it all! 😃

😄

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Juno Eclipse said:

Do we know at what point in production the ‘darker’ script with “Had Abbadon” (the Imperial City) was jettisoned for a ‘lighter’ script with re-use of the Death Star instead?

Just to be clear, the Death Star was always there in ROTJ. In fact, there were TWO Death Stars being constructed above Had Abbadon!

That said, they weren’t as far along in construction as the one in the final film and I don’t think there were any scenes set aboard either of them. As well, there’s no need for fighters to enter them as their cores are exposed enough that merely bringing down the shield is a sufficient weakness for the rebels to exploit.