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Empire Of Dreams 2

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A while ago a few of us posted on the 'Empire of dreams'thread with ideas for how the prequels would have been if we'd written them and we came up with some great stuff (check it out, the threads pretty much dead but still up). Anyway, with all the talk of how the OT would be if other people had directed them etc, I thought it would be great to put forward our ideas for how ROTJ would have been if we'd written it. How would that final epic climax (endor/vader vs luke/vader's redemption, etc) go if you could go back in time and influence the script? C'mon, let's talk - what could have been?....

War does not make one great.

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I don't like to bash the teddy bear people, AKA: Ewoks, but I guess we could have cut them and gone with the wookies or simply no alien species at all.
I'd like a qui-gon jinn please with an Obi-Wan to go.

Red heads ROCK. Blondes do not rock. Nuff said.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v72/greencapt/hansolovsindy.jpg
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I would've killed off Han Solo (as Harrison Ford suggested) for dramatic impact by Jabba the Hutt. I could just picture Han Solo hanging from a noose, dead, and then it would cut to a shot of Jabba laughing. I think that would've been a great way to raise the impact of the whole movie, and you would really build up hate for Jabba. Lando would get killed in the final battle (saving someone's life), the Ewoks would be gone, and there would be no Death Star II; that's too redundant. I'm not sure what I'd do to replace it, but it should be a lot more surprising and unpredictable. The confrontation between Vader and Luke should have been much more violent and fierce; Luke should have deeply wounded Vader and agreed to sit at the Emperor's side as his apprentice. Then, as if in a trance, he should have gone up to some kind of control panel and destroyed a huge ship in the Rebel fleet, laughing evilly. Then, eventually he should shake off the trance (kind of like in The Temple of Doom), turn back to the good side, get nearly fried by the Emperor, and be saved by Vader, his father (as it was in the movie). Leia should not have been Luke's sister; it would make it much more frightening knowing that Luke was the last hope and that he had turned to the dark side.

Just my ideas!

Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side

Emperor Jar-Jar
“Back when we made Star Wars, we just couldn’t make Palpatine as evil as we intended. Now, thanks to the miracles of technology, it is finally possible. Finally, I’ve created the movies that I originally imagined.” -George Lucas on the 2007 Extra Extra Special HD-DVD Edition

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I like that idea! makes the whole thing much darker and not as kiddy friendly.
"Who's scruffy-lookin'?" - Han Solo
"I wish my lawn was emo so it would cut itself." -sybeman
"You know, putting animals in the microwave is not a good idea. I had to learn that one the hard way." -seanwookie
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But a nine-year-old me might not have liked seeing Han Solo hanging dead...

And I might not be a SW fan now.

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Great stuff guys, that's exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about - keep it coming. Yeah, the death Star II was a bit lame, but I don't know what I would have replaced it with either.

And I don't know about Han hanging from a noose!!! I figured that if he was gonna die it would be during the battle of Endor, but killing him early would make you afraid for everyone else.

Lando dying's a nice touch - it completes his story arc from look-out-for-number-one-double-crosser to unselfish hero.

War does not make one great.

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Yeah, you know, Han Solo hanging from a noose might be too disturbing an image for kids. My reasoning was that although Jabba usually feeds his victims to the Rancor, he wanted to do something special with Solo. This would put additional meaning into Boba Fett's words, "He's no good to me dead." He was no good dead because Jabba wanted to kill Solo himself. It just didn't make sense to me that Jabba would want to keep Solo alive for all that time. I pictured the reveal of this when Jabba says something like, "I like Solo where he is." But then, instead of cutting to Solo in carbonite, you would cut to the dead, hanging Solo. Then Jabba would laugh. It just felt more chilling to me (and better). It's absolutely true that his death would make you afraid for everyone else. I think that's a good thing because it introduces tension, a very good element in a film. It also helps if you really hate the bad guys.

And the original question was not, "How would ROTJ have been if we had written it (for kids, of course)?" That's just how it would've been if I had written it. And I also remember clearly when I was a kid. I would've been scared, but I would've gotten over it pretty quickly. Anyway, Lucas shouldn't be worried due to the similar direction he's going in in ROTS

Comments?

Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side

Emperor Jar-Jar
“Back when we made Star Wars, we just couldn’t make Palpatine as evil as we intended. Now, thanks to the miracles of technology, it is finally possible. Finally, I’ve created the movies that I originally imagined.” -George Lucas on the 2007 Extra Extra Special HD-DVD Edition

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Yeah, you're right, the question was how would you write it, not how would you write it for kids. So Han's hanging there dead, and Luke, Chewie, Leia go to rescue him, see him hanging there and just say 'oh well, too late, let's get back to fighting the empire instead of hanging around on Tatooine..."
Like I said, I always figured that the rescue of Han would go as in the movie, giving him the chance to tell Leia he loves her instead of just 'I know', then he dies during the battle of Endor.

War does not make one great.

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You're right; killing him off at the beginning would kind of leave Leia hanging.

But what do you think of the other idea? I think Luke should have clearly turned to the dark side for a short period and didn't stop after wounding Vader. There's an undescribable tension and horror you get when the hero does something bad. I think it would've been a great plot twist for the culmination of the saga; the other way is too predictable.

Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side

Emperor Jar-Jar
“Back when we made Star Wars, we just couldn’t make Palpatine as evil as we intended. Now, thanks to the miracles of technology, it is finally possible. Finally, I’ve created the movies that I originally imagined.” -George Lucas on the 2007 Extra Extra Special HD-DVD Edition

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I agree, but then it would have to be something big to make him come to his senses, he can't just snap out of it. Maybe after Luke has turned to the Dark side and is seated with the Emperor, Vader realises that he's been a pawn all these years and it's him that turns Luke back, so in the end it was Vader who saved the galaxy. But that means that everything Obi Wan and Yoda taught Luke was a waste of time...So if Luke turned, what would happen to make it only a short term turn? Maybe another way to handle it would be Luke almost turns to the dark side earlier in the story. Maybe he could use excessive force during the rescue of Han (I always felt like ROTJ was like 2 clear, unrelated halves of a movie - The Jabba bit and the Endor bit. This would provide a link to the two pieces). He could lose his temper at times instead of being the chilled out goodu goody farmboy for the whole trilogy, so it looks like he might possibly turn out like Vader, but he overcomes that pitfall and emerges even stronger, ready to take confront the Emperor and redeem Dad Vader, and then the end could go just like it does in the movie because Luke has already faced the temptation of the dark side and overcome it.

War does not make one great.

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If I were in charge of killing Han Solo, I think I would have had him die on Endor when the Rebels are trying to storm the Death Star shield generator (whose brilliant idea in the Empire was it to place the new Death Star's shield generator so far away from the actual Death Star?), possibly sacrificing his life for either Leia or Chewbacca.

And probably would have left the thing with Luke & Leia being twin siblings on the cutting room floor.
I'd like a qui-gon jinn please with an Obi-Wan to go.

Red heads ROCK. Blondes do not rock. Nuff said.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v72/greencapt/hansolovsindy.jpg
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Yeah, the Luke/Leia brother and sister thing kind of ruined part of the original two movies, in a way. I just showed the original version of The Empire Strikes Back to some friends on a projector, and resounding "eewww"'s echoed through the room when Leia kissed Luke. It wasn't disgusting before, but now it is. But Lucas was forced to do it because Han survived through the movie and he didn't want one guy to be disappointed. See, if Han was dead, Luke could marry Leia and there wouldn't be a problem.

Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side

Emperor Jar-Jar
“Back when we made Star Wars, we just couldn’t make Palpatine as evil as we intended. Now, thanks to the miracles of technology, it is finally possible. Finally, I’ve created the movies that I originally imagined.” -George Lucas on the 2007 Extra Extra Special HD-DVD Edition

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Couple quick fixes:
1) Ewoks switched to Wookies
2) Endor moon is far more protected with the brush cleared away from the 'back door' as most military people would do. To dangerous having all that cover around.
3)Sandstorm subplot would be reinserted. During that time, Luke discusses how he continued training after he left Yoda, refining his skills as they hunted for Han Solo across the galaxy.
4)Subplot of the Alliance seeing Solo, Skywalker, Leia and Lando as insubordnate outsiders. They left the fight against the Empire to go looking for Han Solo. I would not welcome them back to the cause without reserve. Make the plot point that they agree to go on the Endor mission to re-establish good faith between them and the Alliance.
5)Boba Fett jets off of the barge once the s**t hits the fan. We have a shot of him falling back to Jabba's side. When it all starts to fall to pieces, Leia still strangles Boba Fett. Jabba looks at Boba and insults him while asking him why he does nothing. Boba Fett shrugs and walks away. Last we see of Boba Fett. Make it less personal, more business. As the story flows now, he's dealt with Jedi and wishes not to do so again.
6)The finale on the Endor moon should not exist. The scenes of the people rejoicing throughout the galaxy should stay in. However, have the principles talk from various ships (ala ESB) and go their seperate ways. The Tatooine scenes feature Luke returning home as the people rejoice, Leia and Han returning to Corscant, Lando to Bespin...you get the idea. Have this grand story end with it truly being a tale of misfits who came together at the right moment and saved the galaxy. From there, like all great warriors, they must return back to the world the left. They are different, but the place they left is not.
7)Luke burries Vader at the Homestead. The circle would then indeed be complete. Final shot of Luke looking out at the twin suns of Tatooine. Wipe, Credits.

That's just some of the stuff I would do. Lucas really skimped out on some of his mythology character traits in the final film. Not sure why.
The Jedi are all but extinct.......
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OK. Here are my favorite ideas so far:

1. Han Solo isn’t dead, but he’s dying as the movie progresses. The carbonization slowly broke his system down over time. In a softly lit scene in some dark room with Leia (on a bed maybe), Solo admits that he loves her. Han goes on to warn the princess not to get attached to him, for he’s as good as dead now. They kiss passionately, winding up the love story. Leia looks prettier than she did in the real movie (like in Empire). I don’t know what caused the difference in ROTJ. Hairstyles maybe? Anyway, later on, even in his really bad condition, he fights in the battle because the Rebels are outnumbered and he doesn’t want anything to happen to Leia. He throws himself in the line of fire to save Leia’s life (probably during the Battle of Endor) and is killed by the Empire. But everyone has a really high opinion of him at that point.
2. Jabba the Hutt is more threatening; more of a deadly menace than he was. He doesn’t kill Solo, but there should be some kind of equivalent to make people despise him.
3. Luke goes bananas while rescuing Han from Jabba the Hutt; he acts like a Sith, choking people and being violent. Later, before Yoda dies, he admonishes Luke and warns him, saying that he felt a tremor in the force when he killed so-and-so (like he did when Anakin sliced up the Tusken Raiders). He makes a point of emphasizing that Luke is the last hope-period. Leia is not his sister.
4. Boba Fett doesn’t die in the Sarlacc’s belly. It was a poorly done scene and it would make lots of fans happy.
5. The Ewoks are Wookies and they don’t act foolishly; they act like warriors.
6. Endor is definitely a lot better protected.
7. Luke turns to the dark side after nearly killing Vader. He stops after cutting Vader’s arm, and then he turns to the Emperor and pledges his alleigance to him. He then proceeds to do a bunch of really bad stuff. The Emperor is derogatory towards Vader (who needs him, especially since he’s wounded and the Emperor has Luke). Vader throws the Emperor out single-handedly and then Luke, in tears, turns back to the good side after realizing all the damage he has done. He feels responsible for the death of Vader (which he should). It’s kind of like in The Return of the King. After that huge journey to Mordor, he winds up succumbing to the power of the Ring and Sam winds up saving him. It’s the same in this except Luke’s savior is Darth Vader, once a being of pure evil. Think of the Dark Side like a hypnotic drug that Luke falls prey to. Then, Luke does something really good to redeem himself. Suggestions?
8. I like the idea of all the old friends returning to the places that they came from, but best of all is Luke returning to Tatooine to bury his father: wiser, sadder, and with a greater understanding of his weaknesses and of the galaxy in general. It really would make the circle complete and finish the saga brilliantly. Leia is not involved in this (he does this ritual alone) but viewers are free to imagine that Luke and Leia marry.

I don’t think Lando should die anymore because there are already several major deaths in this movie.

A lot of details would need to be worked out, but I think this is a great (albeit darker) start to a better conclusion to the saga. Comments or additions?

Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side

Emperor Jar-Jar
“Back when we made Star Wars, we just couldn’t make Palpatine as evil as we intended. Now, thanks to the miracles of technology, it is finally possible. Finally, I’ve created the movies that I originally imagined.” -George Lucas on the 2007 Extra Extra Special HD-DVD Edition

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Carrie Fisher went through major drug addictions, that might explain the difference.
"I don't mind if you don't like my manners. I don't like them myself. They're pretty bad. I grieve over them during the long winter evenings."
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Oh really! I wasn't aware of that. That would also explain the huskier voice in ROTJ.

Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side

Emperor Jar-Jar
“Back when we made Star Wars, we just couldn’t make Palpatine as evil as we intended. Now, thanks to the miracles of technology, it is finally possible. Finally, I’ve created the movies that I originally imagined.” -George Lucas on the 2007 Extra Extra Special HD-DVD Edition

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Neat idea, Han Solo dying slowly from ill-side effects of the carbon freezing.

Change this one line that kind of bugs me.

HAN: "Who're you?"
LEIA: "Someone who loves you."

Change that to

LEIA: "Take a guess, flyboy."

Or something like that.
I'd like a qui-gon jinn please with an Obi-Wan to go.

Red heads ROCK. Blondes do not rock. Nuff said.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v72/greencapt/hansolovsindy.jpg
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Good idea! They used something like that ("Let's get out of here, flyboy.") in the Read-A-Long record.

Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side

Emperor Jar-Jar
“Back when we made Star Wars, we just couldn’t make Palpatine as evil as we intended. Now, thanks to the miracles of technology, it is finally possible. Finally, I’ve created the movies that I originally imagined.” -George Lucas on the 2007 Extra Extra Special HD-DVD Edition

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Quote
Originally posted by: Yoda Is Your Father
That ending with Luke burying Vader is great.


Agreed. The ending we can leave alone.

Say Trooperman, where'd you find that pic of Jar Jar in the Palpatine hood?

I'd like a qui-gon jinn please with an Obi-Wan to go.

Red heads ROCK. Blondes do not rock. Nuff said.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v72/greencapt/hansolovsindy.jpg
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Here: Jar-Jar Joke

The article was so funny I didn't know which George Lucas quote to use for my signature.

Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side

Emperor Jar-Jar
“Back when we made Star Wars, we just couldn’t make Palpatine as evil as we intended. Now, thanks to the miracles of technology, it is finally possible. Finally, I’ve created the movies that I originally imagined.” -George Lucas on the 2007 Extra Extra Special HD-DVD Edition

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I'm surprised George Lucas can even remember his original vision after all these years (how the hell could Hayden Christensen-as-Anakin-s-ghost have possibly been a part of his original vision?).

But I could have sworn that the guy once said something like "The screenplay is what you start out with, and the final film is what you end up with."
I'd like a qui-gon jinn please with an Obi-Wan to go.

Red heads ROCK. Blondes do not rock. Nuff said.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v72/greencapt/hansolovsindy.jpg