logo Sign In

Why Kill Padme?

Author
Date
Author
Time
Post link
Ok, this question has been agrivating me for a while: All ideas of Leia's Force-connection to her mother aside, and ignoring any questions of how did she remember her mother if her mother died when she was 24 seconds old...


WHY did Lucas even write the story that way? WHY? Why would he write such a MAJOR and EASILY AVOIDABLE continuity error. From the very beginning everyone asssumed that Padme would survive all the prequels because she had to live long enough for Leia to remember her.

It's like Lucas decided to give OT fans the finger by making Padme die. "You don't like my prequels, well screw you!"

Now most of you who know me know I don't hate Lucas and that I find the prequels to be entertaining movies and vastly underrated segments of a classic story... ANd normally I would never suggest something like this.

BUT I wrack my brain and this is the ONLY explanation I can think of. *sigh* I've been hanging around you negative people too long.

4

Author
Time
Post link
My guess would be that Lucas felt it was necessary to kill Padme to explain why Luke and Leia were split up from each other and their mother. Now i dont truly think it was necessary, I dont think that it was even necessary to have Padme pregnant during the film, well at least toward the very end...all that was needed is to have Anakin not know about it and/or him to believe she died.

But since Lucas went the route he did (and I believe its another one of those in your face look more direct connections from the OT) and decided to have Luke and Leia's birth on screen he was then left with the explanation of how/when they got split up...and like so many things he did he seemed to have not watched the OT (or have any memory of its events) before he went and wrote the PT.

-Darth Simon
Why Anakin really turned to the dark side:
"Anakin, You're father I am" - Yoda
"No. No. That's not true! That's impossible!" - Anakin

0100111001101001011011100110101001100001

*touchy people disclaimer*
some or all of the above comments are partially exaggerated to convey a point, none of the comments are meant as personal attacks on anyone mentioned or reference in the above post
Author
Time
Post link
Because it makes the film better. This was to be the last of his Star Wars films, and rather than just putting out the 'filler' film to bridge the two, he went all out in trying to make the best film possible. The birth of evil/death of hope is beautifully intercut, making this film stand on it's own.
The Jedi are all but extinct.......
Author
Time
Post link
"WHY did Lucas even write the story that way? WHY? Why would he write such a MAJOR and EASILY AVOIDABLE continuity error."

Quote
"The man Leia called Father was obviously not her father. He is part of the group that ends up having to fight Darth Vader in the film that will be out in 2003 [laughs]. The part that I never really developed is the death of Luke and Leia's mother. I had a backstory for her in earlier drafts but it basically didn't survive. When I got to Jedi, I wanted one of the kids to have some kind of memory of her because she will be a key figure in the new episodes I'm writing. But I really debated on whether or not Leia should remember her." - George Lucas: The Annotated Screenplays


"From the very beginning everyone asssumed that Padme would survive all the prequels because she had to live long enough for Leia to remember her."

Actually, I was sure she would die. Lucas downplayed so many other small details, and there was nothing else for her to do in the OT (which is why he killed off Obi-wan in ANH.) Besides, it's really not a continuity error - Leia's images of her mother simply aren't based on what she saw immediately after being born.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

Author
Time
Post link
I have no problem with Anakin killing Padme ...in fact, I like that idea. I hate the way it was ultimately executed.

The problem is that Lucas made Anakin shift to the dark side too fast. Remember: according to the original RotJ novel, Padme had grown to fear Anakin so much that she hid her pregnancy from him. In Sith, she experiences fear of Anakin for approximately two conscious minutes.

In the Phantom Menace novelization, little Anakin dreams of Padme leading an army against him. I would have rather seen that play out as the death of Padme than what transpired in Sith.
Author
Time
Post link
"I hate the way it was ultimately executed."

Ba-dum-crash!

Otherwise agreed with your points, Asha.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

Author
Time
Post link
i have maintained all along that padme was remembering bales wife, not padme. but thats just what i think.

i was having this discussion with someone else in another thread and we got all into it too.
Author
Time
Post link
maintain it all you want, doesnt make it right.

go read the post MeBeJedi made with the quote from the annotated screenplays. its pretty clear that Lucas had Leia remember her real mother not her adopted mother

-Darth Simon
Why Anakin really turned to the dark side:
"Anakin, You're father I am" - Yoda
"No. No. That's not true! That's impossible!" - Anakin

0100111001101001011011100110101001100001

*touchy people disclaimer*
some or all of the above comments are partially exaggerated to convey a point, none of the comments are meant as personal attacks on anyone mentioned or reference in the above post
Author
Time
Post link
I think ultimately for the good of the story overall (flawed that it is), Padme had to die. It was just more dramatic. Unfortunately, it's execution was loused up royally.

As for Leia remembering Padme.........well, LucASS has made it clear that different things in the saga can be taken all different kinds of ways. I think the most logical solution is that since Leia obviously knew she was adopted, she must have asked Bail and his wife about her. The Organas probably did tell Leia something about Padme, just not everything. With Leia being force-sensitive, she probably just tapped into the "feeling" of Padme through whatever the Organas told her.

I know....there's an awful lot of probablys there, but I think it somewhat holds water. I don't like having to connect the dots like that though. You can toy with people about thematic stuff like "this could mean this" or "it could mean the exact opposite", but this is a tangible plot point. It deserves a concrete explanation. It's not an important point in the story, meaning it doesn't effect the story in a major way, but it needs some coverage for sure.

LucASS basically wrote himself into a corner with the OT and honestly, the prequels could only have been one way and one way only. But for some asinine reason, LucASS has decided to go in the complete opposite direction of what the OT dictated to be done.

It's almost like blatant sabotage to me. Why would you create half a story that's so great, and then tell the other half in a way that it dimishes the first half. There is no one in this world who's gonna tell me that the PT and the OT gel perfectly together. My problem is they SHOULD. A writer has a responsibility to give his creation the best possible effort. Tolkien obviously threw himself into LOTR and look at how those books turned out. This is the most frustrating thing to me. LucASS could have been right up there with Tolkien as one of the great imaginations of all time and he basically blew it and for what?

ARGH!!!! I hate thinking about this!!!!
Author
Time
Post link
Quote
Originally posted by: MeBeJedi
"I hate the way it was ultimately executed."

Ba-dum-crash!

Otherwise agreed with your points, Asha.


I'm sorry ... I realize now I should have said that in all caps with bold type:

I HATE THE WAY PADME'S DEATH WAS EXECUTED!

Better?

Seriously ... Padme's death is one of the worst onscreen deaths I've ever seen, if not THE cheesiest movie death I've ever seen. Good idea ... awful execution.
Author
Time
Post link
I didn't mean you meant it as a joke, I just thought the coincidental wording was funny.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

Author
Time
Post link
This is probably a bit far-fetched, but couldn't Leia's "remembering" of been some force dreams when she was little but didn't realize they were dreams? She thought they were so real they actually became real later. And I know it was never implied, just a thought.

And I agree, the death scene was awesful and like the "love story" one of the worst performances I've ever seen on screen.
Author
Time
Post link
It wasn't the performance that was bad, yank, it was the REASON she died that everyone hates. Why would she lose the will to live with two babies to raise? They should have either said:

1) She died of complications from child birth or from Anakin's Force Choke

2) The damage Anakin was done was terminal, but she lived on with the Organa's on Alderaan for a few years (long enough for Leia to remember)

Thematically it works better that she died, but for continuity's sake I would have preferred if she didn't.

4

Author
Time
Post link
And you know... on the Leia thing... why the heck did Bail Organa and his wife even TELL Leia that she was adopted???

"We love you kiddo... but you're adopted- don't worry about who your REAL mother was though. You know- the woman who you remember but don't really remember but maybe just remember from some dreams or something. Yeah, she wasn't important really. Yeah I know this means you're not a real princess. Hell in this galaxy you can be frickin' queen one day, senator the next and totally worthless soon after that- all before you're 20!

Now look... we need you to hop on this blockade runner, get some plans we stole and thake them somewhere. But watch out for this big dude wearing a black suit and flying around in a block of cheese. He's bad news! And for God's sake don't let him get close enough to you to test your blood or run a DNA test or torture you or something because he might realize that you're really his daugh.... *cough, cough*... er... anyway. Your adopted mom and I will leave dinner on for you. Bye!!!

Look dear... did we always have that small second moon in orbit here around Alderaan? Prrreeeetttyyyy..."
Author
Time
Post link
lol

yeah that idea about her becoming mute then dieing a few later would have been good.
Author
Time
Post link
I agree, thematically she had to die. Without an onscreen death there is no closure for her character, and considering she was a major player in the first three episodes, having her just "fade away" between trilogies would be weak to say the least. I understand Lucas' need to have SOME mention of her in the OT, but it was too little, too late, too...confusing. The absence of any references to Padme in the OT aside from Leia's short remembrance are now a glaring continuity error. They weren't back in the 80s, as Anakin's wife was just the dead mom nobody talked about; fair enough. The current situation with Padme is comparable to if Han and Leia had gotten married and had children n RotJ, but Leia died in childbirth at the end of the film, only to be completely forgotten in Episodes 7, 8 , and 9. Lucas really should have fleshed out the backstory and formed some more concrete plotpoints for Mrs. Skywalker back during the OT days.

Things being as they are, the best way to have handled this in RotS would be to have Leia born first, Padme hold her for a while, make eye contact, name her, and kiss her. Then she would go into a new set of contractions as the unexpected Luke arrives. She'd name him, then say "There's good in him; I know there is still," and die before getting to hold or look at Luke. This is what I think we were all expecting to happen; of course, that's probably why it didn't.
Author
Time
Post link
I hated that she named her children....Luke...and you shall be leia...uhhhh aahhhh...DEAD. WTF. She has nothing to live for? How 'bout the kids she just gave birth to and named. I think in an edit, she should die and they rush to get the babies postmortem and its assumed that they are named either by obi-wan and organa or by the couples later on. What mother would not stay with her children and she even says there's still good in him and still "she's lost the will to live??!!!" Baah.
16 years I wait and this is what I get???
Author
Time
Post link
Quote
Originally posted by: Obi-wonton
I hated that she named her children....Luke...and you shall be leia...uhhhh aahhhh...DEAD. WTF. She has nothing to live for? How 'bout the kids she just gave birth to and named. I think in an edit, she should die and they rush to get the babies postmortem and its assumed that they are named either by obi-wan and organa or by the couples later on. What mother would not stay with her children and she even says there's still good in him and still "she's lost the will to live??!!!" Baah.


Perhaps she had an early stage of post-birth depression, and she killed herself by biting her toungue or injecting a poison off-camera. Again, let's all remind that the prequels were written by George "Plot Holes" Lucas, everyone.
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
Author
Time
Post link
hey guys as corny as it is she could have died of a broken heart even if she was having kids. i remember in Final Fantasy 10 tidus's mother dies of a broken heart, when jecht leaves and goes to spira. no one complained about that.
Author
Time
Post link
Quote
Originally posted by: Shimraa
hey guys as corny as it is she could have died of a broken heart even if she was having kids. i remember in Final Fantasy 10 tidus's mother dies of a broken heart, when jecht leaves and goes to spira. no one complained about that.


I would say that any of us fans could have died of a broken heart after seeing what GL did with the prequels, but Shimraa would probably get mad and say we were taking it much too seriously...
Author
Time
Post link
If Luke has absolutley no recollection of his mother even though he was first born,named and held by his mother , and stronger in the force than Leia, how does Leia have memories of her? I don't want to make excuses because I think George seriously dropped the ball on this one, but isn't it more likely that Leia's recollections of her mother are of Bail's wife, (ASIDE FROM THE ANNOTATED SCREENPLAY)

Bail and his wife raised her from birth as their own, because they couldn't have children, this could explain her adopted 'mother's sadness at not being able to conceive a child of her own, concealing Leia's identity from her true father and the Emperor, whilst still retaining a position in the Senate would be hard enough without letting Leia know she was adopted, as far as I know Leia was unaware that Bail Organa was not her natural father.
Author
Time
Post link
And that's exactly how I'll edit the film. No mother would give up her kids like that. Anakin kills her accidentally, she dies in birth, they grab the babies post-mortem (the "we'll have to operate quickly line"), and Leia assumes her mom always was her adopted one and that Luke as a brother, must somehow be from her not padme.
16 years I wait and this is what I get???
Author
Time
Post link
"If Luke has absolutley no recollection of his mother even though he was first born,named and held by his mother , and stronger in the force than Leia, how does Leia have memories of her? I don't want to make excuses because I think George seriously dropped the ball on this one, but isn't it more likely that Leia's recollections of her mother are of Bail's wife, (ASIDE FROM THE ANNOTATED SCREENPLAY)"

A few things:

It may be more likely to you, but that doesn't mean that's how it goes. Secondly, even if Luke is stronger, you have to remember that all he ever thought about was his father. Leia might have been the opposite, and even then, she had very few visions of her mom.

Secondly, thinking that newborn babies have good vision and remember what they see doesn't make sense at all.

And thinking that she's thinking about her step-mother, or even one of the handmaidens (as some are wont to believe) really sucks a lot more heart and soul out of the scene in ROTJ. Instead of feeling Leia's compassion for her mom, we now see it as her misguided belief that her Force visions have something to do with her real mom, which is in the script - as opposed to the Annotated Screenplays.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

Author
Time
Post link
We are all trying to somehow make sense out of senseless-ness, people. Let's just all agree that LucASS screwed the pooch on this one....royally I might add.

He created a major plot hole and really made himself look bad.