Why Doesn't the Resistance have Tie Fighters in The Fore Awakens?

First post, so be gentle as I am familiar with the Star Wars expanded universe but not deep into it.

Hopefully someone here can tell me the answer to this.

In Episode VI the Empire starts to get taken out, and before Episode VII it is disbanded and the New Republic takes power. Wouldn’t the old Empire tech be under the control of the New Republic? And wouldn’t the Resistance have access to it?

I mean why would 30 years later the “good” guys and “bad” guys still have the same style of fighter?

I think what we should have seen in E-VII was the First Order using outdated Tie Fighters, (they are the fringe group now) and the Resistance using the newest best tech including the modern Tie Fighter.

I guess it would have been difficult to get fans to accept this idea, but it would have been kind of cool to see the Tech go from good guys, to bad guys, back to good guys, as it was cool to see the CloneTroopers as good guys in the prequels.

I mean, the Rebel Alliance turned into the New Republic, while the Empire was stomped out. What would be the purpose of switching to TIE fighters? Presumably all pilots that carried over would be best experienced with X-Wings and such.

Well, at least the new republic should have had their soldiers in storm-trooper like armor instad of that guerrilla outfit from OT.

Perhaps VIII can surprise us on this, but who knows.

Last night TFA was on TV, and after Rogue One, I just found FO’s Apple iTropper costumes to be way too clean in battle scenes.

[slow golf clap]

Mithrandir said:

Well, at least the new republic should have had their soldiers in storm-trooper like armor instad of that guerrilla outfit from OT.

Why?

Because taking control of a Galaxy-wide Government grants you access to a pletora of resources which in turn permits you to give better equipment to your army.

In Star Wars our sympathies and loyalty as viewers switch between trilogies, yet diegetically the Old Republic, the Empire and the New Republic are a continuum, the same way after 1917 the bolscheviks didn’t sink any old russian Empire ship just becaused it served under the old regime, nor did the current Russian Federation get rid of old Soviet military equipment.

Which is also why Versailles wasn’t demolished after the French Revolution.

Or why Roman Cardinals are called the curia, which is a title that before the empowerment of the Church was held by the Roman Senate.

Etc. Etc. Etc.

OFC, it’s a personal opinion, but I just don’t buy that “evil shape” and “good shape” stuff. If anything, I would go with something that an old user from this forum always pointed out. The Empire is technological, massive, machine-like while the rebels are organic, small-scaled and put their confidence on individuals rather than on a system, whatever that is.

ST has the potential to show some of the conflicts you can face when you have to govern a vast territory with that philosophy.

I get the impression the New Republic doesn’t have an army.

And while I get your point, I think victors usually come up with their own armor. Stormtroopers were an omnipresent symbol of the tyranny of the Empire. I doubt they’d want that image.

In fairness stormtrooper armour is based on clonetrooper armour. The armours appearance has had both positive and negative associations with it.

TFA make the first order out to be technologically superior - but give they are the Guerrilla force in this movie, I think they should have been outmatched in this area by the Resistance.

The most interesting part of the PT to me was seeing the Republic turn into the Empire. I think there’s something so cool about seeing the “good guys” using prototypes of TIE Fighters, or seeing them at the head of a Venator-class Star Destroyer. This is something that I had never thought about until now, but what Neverar and Mithrandir said make me really wish that something like it had been done in TFA. It still feels like the Empire is in control, with their shiny and newly redesigned armor and their spiffy new TIE Fighters, and the Resistance is still wearing this;

The more I think about it, the more I’m disappointed that we didn’t see the First Order presented the way the Resistance was. It could’ve been a “poetic” reversal of the Original Trilogy, with the First Order as a ragtag group of fighters using guerrilla tactics against the technologically superior New Republic.

The Republic becomes the Empire. The Empire does not become the New Republic, it becomes the First Order.

The Rebels form the New Republic, and later the Resistance.

It would be very strange if these teams swapped uniforms, so to speak.

The First Order’s stuff is new and spiffy because so are they. That doesn’t make them in charge, and they’re not. The Resistance is scrappy because they aren’t in charge either, they’re a separate group created by members of the New Republic. As to whether or not they should have armor is a legitimate question but in my mind it would make no sense whatsoever for them to look like stormtroopers.

DominicCobb said:

The Republic becomes the Empire. The Empire does not become the New Republic, it becomes the First Order.

Honestly we’re not given a precise answer to this. In the outer rim territories, looks like that’s it. But I’m not sure that’s the same situation in the inner Core systems.

The Rebels form the New Republic, and later the Resistance.

The fact that the Resistance is sort of a fringe, unoficial faction of the Republic might help explain the use of guerrilla garments. But in VIII, after the escalation of the conflict and an open attack on the republic, I don’t think they could still keep showing the good guys as a poor band of outcasts. They are in control of the wealthiest systems of the galaxy

It would be very strange if these teams swapped uniforms, so to speak.

Yes, both ways would make sense in the end. I’m secretly hoping for both teams having different versions of stormtrooper armor. But probably we just won’t be getting that.

The First Order’s stuff is new and spiffy because so are they. That doesn’t make them in charge, and they’re not. The Resistance is scrappy because they aren’t in charge either, they’re a separate group created by members of the New Republic. As to whether or not they should have armor is a legitimate question but in my mind it would make no sense whatsoever for them to look like stormtroopers.

The thing with the First Order having top tech and being all shiny and new might not be just a design flaw, but rather expose some of the weaknesses of the movie’s plot. At least with what we have been told so far.

If their take was, as Abrams said, to think of the FO as a what-if scenario with the nazis hiding in Argentina, I think they just didn’t make enough research about what happened down here.

I can take that admirers of the old Empire would still honor its aesthetics. I can even take that a splitting appendice of the oficial government would look and feel poor funded. I can a galaxy-wide regime having enough resources to build a superweapon the size of a moon. But it is far more difficult to accept a band of outcasts being able to fund the transformation of an entire planet into a sun-sucking superweapon the upsaid regime couldn’t even afford.

Let’s see what approach they take with Episode Eight, where the New Republic is to be a warring faction. In the meanwhile, I think that clearly these design choices weren’t made under an in-universe logic, but rather with an outsider perspective. Bad guys don’t show their faces and hide beneath masks while the freedom fighters are humans you can get invested with.

The first gesture of the defecting soldier is precisely to take off his helmet.

Mithrandir said:

DominicCobb said:

The Republic becomes the Empire. The Empire does not become the New Republic, it becomes the First Order.

Honestly we’re not given a precise answer to this. In the outer rim territories, looks like that’s it. But I’m not sure that’s the same situation in the inner Core systems.

The crawl states that the First Order rose from the ashes of the Empire, seemingly in the outer rim. Otherwise it seems like the New Republic took over.

The Rebels form the New Republic, and later the Resistance.

The fact that the Resistance is sort of a fringe, unoficial faction of the Republic might help explain the use of guerrilla garments. But in VIII, after the escalation of the conflict and an open attack on the republic, I don’t think they could still keep showing the good guys as a poor band of outcasts. They are in control of the wealthiest systems of the galaxy

We’ll see. But the New Republic has come under attack (losing their capital, senate, and fleet), so they aren’t necessarily in the best position at the moment.

The First Order’s stuff is new and spiffy because so are they. That doesn’t make them in charge, and they’re not. The Resistance is scrappy because they aren’t in charge either, they’re a separate group created by members of the New Republic. As to whether or not they should have armor is a legitimate question but in my mind it would make no sense whatsoever for them to look like stormtroopers.

The thing with the First Order having top tech and being all shiny and new might not be just a design flaw, but rather expose some of the weaknesses of the movie’s plot. At least with what we have been told so far.

If their take was, as Abrams said, to think of the FO as a what-if scenario with the nazis hiding in Argentina, I think they just didn’t make enough research about what happened down here.

I can take that admirers of the old Empire would still honor its aesthetics. I can even take that a splitting appendice of the oficial government would look and feel poor funded. I can a galaxy-wide regime having enough resources to build a superweapon the size of a moon. But it is far more difficult to accept a band of outcasts being able to fund the transformation of an entire planet into a sun-sucking superweapon the upsaid regime couldn’t even afford.

It’s not quite like that though. This would have been if the Nazis took control of the Argentinian government and then the rest of South America. The First Order started as a band of outcasts, but they’ve been growing in power. At the point we meet up with them in TFA, they’ve become quite a bit more than that. They’re a legitimate force in the galaxy in control of a number of systems. The New Republic has been complacent in this and that’s why the Resistance was formed in the first place.

Let’s see what approach they take with Episode Eight, where the New Republic is to be a warring faction. In the meanwhile, I think that clearly these design choices weren’t made under an in-universe logic, but rather with an outsider perspective. Bad guys don’t show their faces and hide beneath masks while the freedom fighters are humans you can get invested with.

Well sure, and I’d say good. Using visuals to tell the story is far more important in my mind than in-universe logic. I’ll admit that the Resistance should have armor in the next film, but if they don’t, I’m not going to lose any sleep over it.

DominicCobb said:

Well sure, and I’d say good. Using visuals to tell the story is far more important in my mind than in-universe logic. I’ll admit that the Resistance should have armor in the next film, but if they don’t, I’m not going to lose any sleep over it.

Yes, what you say is true. It’s just I find it hard to fully accept how much they decided to neglect everything that was implied by the ending of ROTJ; the Empire visually surviving is one thing, the Rebels visually not having won is another.

I don’t think “neglect everything” is quite right. A lot has happened in the intervening years. The First Order is threatening that very victory.

If TFA were a direct sequel to ROTJ I’d agree they drop the ball on picking up where it left off (in that case and others), but it’s less a continuation of that story and more a start of a new one further down the line.

DominicCobb said:

The Republic becomes the Empire. The Empire does not become the New Republic, it becomes the First Order.

I was under the impression that the Empire capitulated to the New Republic for the most part, with only a few holdouts retreating to the Unknown Regions to rebuild. It may seem like a small difference, but I think it’s actually pretty substantial. If the entirety of the Empire or at least a large portion if it retreated, then I could understand how they reappear in such strength.

The Rebels form the New Republic, and later the Resistance.

I understand that people really hated the non-stop politics of the prequels, but I really wish this stuff was explained better in TFA.

It would be very strange if these teams swapped uniforms, so to speak.

Why is that? The Resistance is directly (or indirectly?) supported by the New Republic, the First Order is a fringe Empire loyalist group that’s been relegated to the ass end of the Galaxy.

The First Order’s stuff is new and spiffy because so are they. That doesn’t make them in charge, and they’re not. The Resistance is scrappy because they aren’t in charge either, they’re a separate group created by members of the New Republic.

Again, I wish this was better explained in TFA.

As to whether or not they should have armor is a legitimate question but in my mind it would make no sense whatsoever for them to look like stormtroopers.

I don’t want them to look exactly like Stormtroopers, it totally makes sense for them to want to distance themselves from that. What I’m trying to say is that I like the idea of the OT’s Empire becoming the ST’s “Rebels” in the sense that they’re the underdog trying to take down the the big and powerful Republic.

Mithrandir already gave some great examples. I would add a couple more - both Communist and Nationalist Chinese factions used Japanese equipment during and after the Chinese Civil War, despite the symbolism carried by it. They were, after all, useful weapons, some quite modern and capable (the Ki-84 fighters, for example).

The United States Colonial Army used the same uniforms during and after the American War of Independence that were issued by the British Empire. Why? Again, because it was not only practical, it was necessary to do so.

Now, Star Wars being a movie I understand why they went with the “visual aesthetic inheritance” for the good/evil factions, even though the Resistance using old Imperial equipment would have been a radical and fun thing to see.

What I do not get is why is the FO so clean and flashy, while the Resistance is all rag-tag? Alright, keep the design aesthetic but couldn’t we actually reverse the theme and have the good guys be shiny and well equipped, while the FO soldiers being the grizzled but stoic making do with worn-out, dirty and scrapped together equipment? TIE-Fighters actually looking like the Rebel fighters in ANH, dirty, worn-out, and having personal insignia as each one is precious and kept to its pilot; stormtroopers being more varied as their armor doesn’t get issued on time after repairs are needed and they have all kind of field-mods, being dirtier and scratched…

Would have been cool. 😕

Burdokva said:

What I do not get is why is the FO so clean and flashy, while the Resistance is all rag-tag? Alright, keep the design aesthetic but couldn’t we actually reverse the theme and have the good guys be shiny and well equipped, while the FO soldiers being the grizzled but stoic making do with worn-out, dirty and scrapped together equipment? TIE-Fighters actually looking like the Rebel fighters in ANH, dirty, worn-out, and having personal insignia as each one is precious and kept to its pilot; stormtroopers being more varied as their armor doesn’t get issued on time after repairs are needed and they have all kind of field-mods, being dirtier and scratched…

Would have been cool. 😕

Damn, it would’ve been awesome for the First Order Stormtroopers to be wearing salvaged Empire armor.

I loved The Force Awakens, but the more I think about it, the more I’m disappointed that they didn’t go this route.

Burdokva said:

Mithrandir already gave some great examples. I would add a couple more - both Communist and Nationalist Chinese factions used Japanese equipment during and after the Chinese Civil War, despite the symbolism carried by it. They were, after all, useful weapons, some quite modern and capable (the Ki-84 fighters, for example).

The United States Colonial Army used the same uniforms during and after the American War of Independence that were issued by the British Empire. Why? Again, because it was not only practical, it was necessary to do so.

Now, Star Wars being a movie I understand why they went with the “visual aesthetic inheritance” for the good/evil factions, even though the Resistance using old Imperial equipment would have been a radical and fun thing to see.

What I do not get is why is the FO so clean and flashy, while the Resistance is all rag-tag? Alright, keep the design aesthetic but couldn’t we actually reverse the theme and have the good guys be shiny and well equipped, while the FO soldiers being the grizzled but stoic making do with worn-out, dirty and scrapped together equipment? TIE-Fighters actually looking like the Rebel fighters in ANH, dirty, worn-out, and having personal insignia as each one is precious and kept to its pilot; stormtroopers being more varied as their armor doesn’t get issued on time after repairs are needed and they have all kind of field-mods, being dirtier and scratched…

Would have been cool. 😕

I mean, it’s an interesting idea. It’s just not the story they decided to tell, and not the position the galaxy is in at the start of the film. I imagine the beginnings of the First Order looked just like that, but they’re a bit further along and more powerful at this point.