Why Can't We Respect Other Peoples Beliefs? — Page 3

It looks like I'm a little late to chime in here, but I had to say: Boost- I totally get where you're coming from.

I am Christian and I have a lot of friends who aren't.  They are my friends and we do get along wonderfully.   They ask me questions (or not) and I discuss my religion/faith/beliefs/whathaveyou openly.  I think they know that I am accepting of them even though they don't share my beliefs and that I won't try to ram them down their throats.

BUT!

You are right!  At the end of the day, my understanding of the Gospel is that:

1) Life is short.
2) Eternity is forever
3) Christ wasn't kidding in John 3:3 when he said that there were entry requirements to getting into Heaven.

So, if I really cared about any of my friends... the last thing I'd do is sit there and not do what I could to "convert" them to Christ.  There's a decent analogy in a burning building.  If you notice that your appartment is on fire, it's your moral responsibility to tell as many people in your building about it and save everyone you can.  Maybe you pull the fire alarm.  Maybe you knock on doors as you collect your family and run down the hall... but how would you feel if your neighbors were burned alive and you didn't take the chance to warn them, even though you had the opportunity to?

4) While you might be able to force someone to become a member of your religion, you can't force them to share your belief and faith.
5) You must be tolerant of others who don't share your beliefs.
and
6) Tolerance sometimes means pretending 1-3 aren't true when in polite company.  Ignoring the elephant in the room, as you said.

Being polite, if you think about it, always is some kind of charade.  It's some kind of lie, right?  It's dishonest, as you said.  Bold faced honesty is not something we value much in society.

Warbler said:

As for the belief that all those that don't worship Christ will go to hell,  I admit I do have a problem it that I've never been able to resolve.   What about all the people whom had no chance to hear the word?  what about children that die before they even have a chance to understand?  Are they all in hell?   Hitler was a Christian, a catholic I think(although obviously not a good one),   Gandhi was not a Christian.   Is Hitler in heaven and Gandhi in hell?   What about all the people who lived and died before Christ was even born?   Are they in hell? Are the 6 Million Jewish people who died in the Holocaust in hell?   All the aborted babies whom are supposedly full fledged humans with souls, are they hell?  These are the things I can't accept.   It has caused a sort of schism between myself and my religion and my church.   I don't know what else to say.  

There are Christian religions that believe these people will be accounted for.  If your religion doesn't and this is a concern for you, perhaps it's time to do a little comparative religion shopping?

I get annoyed at those intolerant of people who carry fire extiguishers. I don't think the fire is ever coming, but what makes me more right than the guy who's trying to warn us all?

Warbler said:

xhonzi said:

Warbler said:

<are they in Hell?>

There are Christian religions that believe these people will be accounted for.  If your religion doesn't and this is a concern for you, perhaps it's time to do a little comparative religion shopping?

this is a little different that going out and shopping for new clothes.  I have been going to the same church literally all my life.  I was baptized there.   So was my brother.  I grew up.   My niece is going to Sunday school there.  My grandmother was a member there until she died.     My brother  and his wife got married there.    My family is there.   I have known multiple members of the church all my life.    It would be difficult if not impossible for me to leave my church.   

Instead of telling me to leave my church, how about you answer the questions I posed above? 

I didn't tell you to leave your Church.  Let me rephrase: If it concerns you that your Church doesn't address all of your Spiritual needs, one way or another, but you have strong social reasons to stay with that Church... then you need to decide which is most important to you, and then make a hard decision. 

That might sound like I'm still saying you should leave your Church, but I'm really not.  I'm saying you need to decide how important your concerns are.  Then you decide whether you're going to find a new Church, or if you're going to stay where you are.

As for the answer to your question, I will give as good an answer as I can in a public forum: Some people believe they are in Hell.  Others don't.  I, for one, don't believe they are in Hell.  How about you?

TV's Frink said:

xhonzi said:

So, if I really cared about any of my friends... the last thing I'd do is sit there and not do what I could to "convert" them to Christ.  There's a decent analogy in a burning building.  If you notice that your appartment is on fire, it's your moral responsibility to tell as many people in your building about it and save everyone you can.  Maybe you pull the fire alarm.  Maybe you knock on doors as you collect your family and run down the hall... but how would you feel if your neighbors were burned alive and you didn't take the chance to warn them, even though you had the opportunity to?

I'm going to take the opposing view and extend this analogy a little bit.  Let's say I'm in my apartment and you knock on my door to tell me about the fire.  I tell you that there might be a fire, but there might not be, and I'm not convinced either way.  I appreciate your concern, but I'm going to stay in my apartment and see how it all plays out.

Now keep in mind, I've been in this apartment for a long time, and a large number of people have knocked on my door to tell me about the fire.  Some of them, like you, are filled with genuine concern for my well-being, and I appreciate their concern.  But despite that, I'm getting a little tired of everyone trying to convince me there really is a fire.  In fact, I want to hang a sign outside my door that says, "Heard about the fire, and I appreciate your concern, but please don't try to convince me it's a real fire.  I've made my choice and please respect that.  Thank you."

And then there are the people who have knocked on my door who have no interest in my personal well-being.  They have a variety of different motivations, but I can assure you they aren't trying to just save me from a fire.  Furthermore, they are extremely insulting when I tell them I'm not sure the fire is real, and if I tell them I believe in a different fire, they are likely to insult me even more. While I have doubts the fire really exists, the people I'm descended from/related to absolutely do not believe in the fire, or at least the version of the fire you are describing, and somehow this is extremely offensive to some of the people in the apartment building.

So keep in mind that when you knock on my door with the best of intentions, it's not your fault that I've been badgered about this fire countless times since it broke out.  But I've been badgered just the same, and I really have no interest in the fire or hearing about the fire.

Summary: Fire?  Meh.  It doesn't bother me in the slightest that you're trying to get out of the building, and I appreciate your concern.  But I'm good.

I think this is where the respect comes in.  You appreciate my concern.  I appreciate your eFreedom to do whatever you want.  I could physically pick you up and carry you out of the building... but as soon I put you down- I'm sure you'll go right back in, so what is the point?

I know people that share the same disinterest in discussion religion (or fires) and I've learned that no good is done in trying to convince them otherwise.

Carl Sagan also had an interesting analogy, from the more skeptical perspective:

Carl Sagan - The Dragon in my Garage

3) Christ wasn't kidding in John 3:3 when he said that there were entry requirements to getting into Heaven.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrIl31ZY1HU

xhonzi said:

Being polite, if you think about it, always is some kind of charade.  It's some kind of lie, right?  It's dishonest, as you said.  Bold faced honesty is not something we value much in society.

 Boost, I was disappointed you never commented on my claim above.  Care to now?

I kind of skipped over this entire conversation while it was taking place, never really had any interest in it, other than to give it a quick glace. Guess I just wasn't in the mood to discuss it at the time. However, one post made by TheBoost caught my attention back then, and I had been meaning to reply to it.

TheBoost said:

canofhumdingers said:

I can treat a person of a different faith with respect, kindness, and love all while believing his faith is completely false.  Just because I don't agree with what he believes doesn't mean I hate him or treat him poorly (quite the opposite!), or even talk poorly about his religion to him or behind his back.  I can show both him and his religion "respect" without ever agreeing with it.

So, if I read you correctly, respecting someone else's differing faith means to ignore someone else's differing faith?

 One of my coworker beleives she's going to magically vanish when God's son floats down from the sky, another believes not only will no one vanish, but that there is no god. A third believes there is no god by Allah and Muhammed is his prophet.

At least two of these people have to be wrong, possibly insane.

Is the only path to respect and coexistance to ignore the giant Godlike elephant in the room?

I think "wrong, possibly insane" is a bit strong. I imagine they are all very wrong, but I just don't see why that matters one bit. I have a few good friends who are practicing Muslims, we've discussed religion with each other before, and have all come to the conclusion that we obviously disagree on that subject and that there is no where else to go with further discussion on that topic. So what do we do? Do we hate each other? Do we consider each other insane? Do we secretly resent each others beliefs? No, we get on just fine and have plenty of stimulating conversation not related to religion. We also disagree politically in HUGE ways, but yet we still manage to have those kinds of discussions without stepping on each others toes too badly. Before I moved away, we'd meet up and go for coffee together frequently, which seems to indicate to me that they enjoyed my company and much as I enjoyed theirs, regardless of our differing belief systems.

In doing this, I don't think any "giant Godlike elephant" was lingering in the room and being ignored. Why should religious beliefs be elevated to such a point that they dictate who we can comfortably hang out with?

My family is pretty big into their religion, and take it quite seriously. I do not believe the same as they do, and that obviously perturbs them to a degree, but I still manage to have a good relationship with them.

I don't think that elephant is such a big deal as some people try to make it out to be, and if it is a problem for some people, then I am afraid the issue lies with them. They need a severe attitude adjustment. Life simply doesn't work that way. Not everyone is going to agree with then about everything all the time, they just need to get over it.

So what if someone believes they reach salvation through leprahauns and dedicate their life to the persuit of rainbows. That is obviously an extreme hyperbolic scenario, and you probably would have reason to believe that person might be made. But someone following some acient tradition isn't all that uncommon, and so does not fit in the range of insanity. If someone wants to believe these ancient traditions, why fret about it? What does it do to us? Why should it be precieved as something as unsightly and hazardous as a giant elephant filling up space in the room? I just have a hard time finding it something to get hung up on.

Yep.

I guess the only thing I would say to that is this: I have friends that I respect.  These friends do not share my "core beliefs about the foundation or workings of the galaxy" but I still call them my friends and "love" them in that totally straight way that men love their friends.

So, their beliefs I tolerate or ignore, but the people I respect.