Why Can't We Respect Other Peoples Beliefs? — Page 2

Thank you sean, apology accepted.  It takes a big man to admit a mistake.  As far as I'm concerned the issue is over with.

I really have no problem with religion or people if they don't have a problem with me. I just wish instead of those super stadium-like huge churches some of that money should be used to help the poor. I know most churches arent like that but do we really need any of those? I would assume doing good things would get you out of a bad list more than getting church built.

vote_for_palpatine said:

But speaking only for myself, I don't believe everyone else is wrong; I have no way of knowing one way or the other. I believe what I believe because it makes the most sense to me.

So you're not REALLY 100% sure about your faith? And you can respect other people based on that.

That's not a knock. This topic strikes me where I live because I'm at the same time the world's worst Christian and the world's weakest atheist. What you're saying makes all the sense in the world to me.

But what about the people who really, really, really believe? People who believe with fervor and absolute unquestioning faith. People who don't believe, people who know.

Can they be expected to respect other people religons? If someone truly and absolutely thinks I'm going to hell, or that I'm sadly deluded, or that my particular god is a myth or perhaps a demon, isn't there something dishonest about talking about how they respect that?

sean wookie said:

I really have no problem with religion or people if they don't have a problem with me. I just wish instead of those super stadium-like huge churches some of that money should be used to help the poor. I know most churches arent like that but do we really need any of those? I would assume doing good things would get you out of a bad list more than getting church built.

So you disagree with Rick Warren and his type's specific theology? That doesn't sound very respectful.

TheBoost said:

Coud you really 'respect' that? And if I genuinely beleived in that, could I be expected to 'respect' your ridiculous beleifs in science, YHWH, Ganesh, or The Force?

its more or less about respecting the rights of people to believe what they believe.  People have to decide for themselves which, if any religion to follow.   I'm not going to play God and tell which to go to.  

As for the belief that all those that don't worship Christ will go to hell,  I admit I do have a problem it that I've never been able to resolve.   What about all the people whom had no chance to hear the word?  what about children that die before they even have a chance to understand?  Are they all in hell?   Hitler was a Christian, a catholic I think(although obviously not a good one),   Gandhi was not a Christian.   Is Hitler in heaven and Gandhi in hell?   What about all the people who lived and died before Christ was even born?   Are they in hell? Are the 6 Million Jewish people who died in the Holocaust in hell?   All the aborted babies whom are supposedly full fledged humans with souls, are they hell?  These are the things I can't accept.   It has caused a sort of schism between myself and my religion and my church.   I don't know what else to say.  

doubleofive said:

TheBoost said:

 

So you disagree with Rick Warren and his type's specific theology? That doesn't sound very respectful.

You can agree with his theology and not how he spends his church's money, which I do.  Megachurches rub me the wrong way for just what sean is saying.  Golden crosses and waterfalls in the foyer aren't going to help anyone, whether they go to that church or not.

The church I went to in TN was fairly small, but gave over half of their money to missions.  That's how it should be done.  Or like currently I help lead a bible study in someone's home.  No money changes hands at all, we just invite our neighbors over to encourage them.  That's what its about, not vast sanctuaries and video screens.  Relationships.

That what YOUR church is about. But if we're respecting other people, it means we respect what their church is about. In the case of Mega-church theology, their about mass salvations, huge gatherings, hands in the air praising the spirit. They value sheer vollume of praise and salvation.

Coud you respect a religion that charity and relationships are NOT a part of at all? Could you respect a Leprechaunist?

 I'm kind of enjoying this thread.  We've managed to be pretty civil to one another.  I'm proud of us. :-D

Well screw you hippy!

doubleofive said:

As a wise professor of mine once told us, "The question shouldn't be 'what happens to those who haven't heard?'; it should be 'why haven't you told them?'."

just how do you tell an aborted fetus or a kid that dies before he/she can speack about Jesus? 

I think it's important to distinguish between repecting a person vs. respecting his religion.  As a Christian, I agree with a lot of what DoubleOhFive is saying. 

I can treat a person of a different faith with respect, kindness, and love all while believing his faith is completely false.  Just because I don't agree with what he believes doesn't mean I hate him or treat him poorly (quite the opposite!), or even talk poorly about his religion to him or behind his back.  I can show both him and his religion "respect" without ever agreeing with it.

canofhumdingers said:

I can treat a person of a different faith with respect, kindness, and love all while believing his faith is completely false.  Just because I don't agree with what he believes doesn't mean I hate him or treat him poorly (quite the opposite!), or even talk poorly about his religion to him or behind his back.  I can show both him and his religion "respect" without ever agreeing with it.

So, if I read you correctly, respecting someone else's differing faith means to ignore someone else's differing faith?

 One of my coworker beleives she's going to magically vanish when God's son floats down from the sky, another believes not only will no one vanish, but that there is no god. A third believes there is no god by Allah and Muhammed is his prophet.

At least two of these people have to be wrong, possibly insane.

Is the only path to respect and coexistance to ignore the giant Godlike elephant in the room?

Ziz said:

Bottom line to me is that "religion"="procedure", not "religion"="beliefs".  What "religion" you say you follow or believe in is really just a description of how you practice those beliefs.  In the end, what different religions believe is all essentially the same.

 So, a Taoist, a Jainist, and a Rabbi walk into a bar. They all see Ziz and go "What?"

TheBoost said:

Is the only path to respect and coexistance to ignore the giant Godlike elephant in the room?

well what you have us do?   Be rude to each other?  Hate each other?   War with each other?   Force the others to believe what you believe and kill those that refuse?   well?

Davnes007 said:

'Religion' is a synonym for 'cult'

we are going to have to disagree there. 

Warbler said:

TheBoost said:

Is the only path to respect and coexistance to ignore the giant Godlike elephant in the room?

well what you have us do?   Be rude to each other?  Hate each other?   War with each other?   Force the others to believe what you believe and kill those that refuse?   well?

 I dunno. I know nothing. I'm just trying to hash out terms.

I can respect another culture. Perhaps your people wear beards, or have a matrilineal socienty in contrast to my patrilineal society. Perhaps you're people like bizarre music or food, or paint donkeys to look like zebras. I can respect those differences without thinking they are necessarily negative, even while my own culture is very different.

But religion? Fundamental belief in the nature of the universe? Can we politely respect eachothers differences in that? I dunno, it seems much more difficult. Or is the only way to deal with it to afree to not talk about it?

Davnes007 said:

'Religion' is a synonym for 'cult'

Nope.

Davnes007 said:

TheBoost said:

Davnes007 said:

'Religion' is a synonym for 'cult'

Nope.

Ya.

 Still wrong.

While "religion" as a phenomenon is sometimes difficult to define (whole books have been written on the topic, I reccomened Mircea Eliade) it is not in anyway synonomous with 'cult.'

'Cult' is a very ill defined term, ususally used as a derogatory term for any convieniet 'other.' In the US at least, 'cult' is a convienient term used to bring legal pressure on new religious groups.

Certain traits tend to be involved with so-called Cult movements, which might include secrecy, a charasmatic authoritarian leader, intense indoctrination, and dificulty leaving the cult, but none of these are present in every 'cult'like situation.

So it's not a pearl of wisdom. It's just a slur.

TheBoost said:

Warbler said:

TheBoost said:

Is the only path to respect and coexistance to ignore the giant Godlike elephant in the room?

well what you have us do?   Be rude to each other?  Hate each other?   War with each other?   Force the others to believe what you believe and kill those that refuse?   well?

 I dunno. I know nothing. I'm just trying to hash out terms.

I can respect another culture. Perhaps your people wear beards, or have a matrilineal socienty in contrast to my patrilineal society. Perhaps you're people like bizarre music or food, or paint donkeys to look like zebras. I can respect those differences without thinking they are necessarily negative, even while my own culture is very different.

But religion? Fundamental belief in the nature of the universe? Can we politely respect eachothers differences in that? I dunno, it seems much more difficult. Or is the only way to deal with it to afree to not talk about it?

its difficult, but doable.     Look at the political thread.    Ferris and I disagree on alot.    We argue, but we do it respectfully.   

I myself am an agnostic atheist, in that I don't believe there can be proof of God's existence or nonexistence (agnostic), but I also don't believe there is one, despite the fact that I can't know for sure (atheist).  (For those confused by this line of reasoning, check this out.)

At the same time, I don't look at it as "respecting" or "disrespecting" another person's beliefs - I simply don't care.  You believe in God?  Cool.  That does not change my opinion of you as a person one iota.  Same goes for if you don't.

I only have a problem if someone tries to "convert" me - then I lose a bit of respect for them.  I'll never try to "convert" someone to atheism - if their religion gives them comfort in their lives, why should I deprive them of that?  No one converted me to atheism, I sussed it out on my own.

Last year, an acquaintance of mine asked me to go to church with him.  I politely refused, and told him I wasn't religious.  He asked me if I believed in God, and I said no.  He then proceeded to quote scripture at me and repeatedly told me I'd burn in hell if I didn't accept Jesus Christ as my personal lord and savior right then.  I asked him how he'd feel if I tried to convince him there wasn't a God, and he became incredibly offended, gathered together all of his shit, and left.

I've seen him once since then.  He glared at me the entire time and said nothing.  It's a shame, really - he was a nice guy.

all I can say is that you can try to convert me, but I doubt you'd succeed.   But I wouldn't react like that guy unless you were really disrespectful/insulting or something like that.  As for the converting thing,  one thing you have to keep in mind.   Some people believe it their duty to try to convert others.  I mind it as long as it is done politely and without any kind of force.   But there is a time to quit trying and back down. 

Larry David on Conversion and Lobster