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Whose arm?

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This has probably been debated here already.  If so, sorry.  I am new.

I have seen Adywan's Star Wars Revisited and have the sense that within the hardcore fan community it is believed that in the cantina scene, Obi Wan cuts off the Walrus Guy's arm.  Adywan even shot new footage to show Walrus Guy's arm on the floor with a flipper instead of a hand.

I will say right now that I am a huge fan of Star Wars. When I was 11, I saw it at least 20 times in the theater.  With that said, I am not one of those fans who can tell you the names of all of the aliens in the cantina.  I'm not that hardcore.  So for the purposes of this discussion I will refer to these two characters as Walrus Guy and Freaky Nose.

When the Bluray came out I was intrigued and my cynical side said, well now you will see all of the flaws that were blurred out in the old, low resolution version.  I say that with humor, but it's really true.  I will discuss (and have discussed) in other threads the flaws with matte paintings and other issues.

Okay.  Watching this sceme in 1080p and having the ability to move frame by frame, it is clear now what has happened.  

Here is the order of events, undeniable, backed up by screenshots:

- Walrus Guy has Flipper Hands

- Freaky Nose has normal human hands

- Walrus Guy is wearing and orange flight jacket

- Freaky Nose is wearing a long sleeve tan shirt and brown vest

http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m521/dwsiddall/Cantina001.jpg

- Walrus Guy shoves Luke on the shoulder with his flipper hand and grunts at him

- Luke turns back around

- Freaky Nose taps Luke on the shoulder with his human hand and informs him that Walrus Guy doesn't like him and that he had better watch himself, blah blah, blah...

- Obi Wan intervenes and tells Freaky Nose that Luke isn't worth the trouble and offers to get him something from the bar

-  Freaky Nose freaks out and shoves Luke sending him crashing into tables

- As Luke is crashing into a table, Freaky Nose starts to draw his blaster (easily seen when viewed frame by frame)

http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m521/dwsiddall/Cantina002.jpg

- Obi Wan reaches for his lightsaber

- The bartender freaks and screams "no blasters...no blasters!!"

- Freaky Nose raises his blaster up to shoot (Walrus guy is behind and Freaky Nose is in front of him and the arm raising up is clearly human with a tan shirt and brown vest)

http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m521/dwsiddall/Cantina003.jpg

- Obi Wan swings his lightsaber 

http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m521/dwsiddall/Cantina004.jpg

- Freaky Nose stumbles backward

http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m521/dwsiddall/Cantina005.jpg

- There is blurry chaos of stumbling and falling

- A severed arm is shown on the floor, with a dropped blaster, in an orange flight jacket with a hairy, ape-like hand

First, it IS Freaky Nose that is raising up the blaster.  Walrus guy is behind him and it may look like it is Walrus guy but in the Bluray it is very clear.  There is also the evidence that the arm that is raising up has (1) a human hand and (2) a long sleeve tan shirt.  

Second, even if you explained that Obi Wan "missed"and accidentally chopped off Walrus Guy's arm, there are a few problems.  (1) Walrus Guy had flipper hands and the severed arm doesn't and (2) Walrus guy wasn't holding a blaster and the severed arm was.

Also, as Freaky nose is falling backward, it is clear he still has both arms.

http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m521/dwsiddall/Cantina005.jpg

The lightsaber is already swung, so Obi Wan could n't have cut off Walrus Guy's arm.  This is simply a giant mistake.  If there is to be a corrected version of this scene, it needs to show Freaky nose falling backward with a smoldering shoulder and show a severed humanoid arm and hand, in a tan shirt.

 

 

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Although the alternate cut of the original cantinia scene does clearly show a flipper laying on the ground.

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timdiggerm said:


Although the alternate cut of the original cantinia scene does clearly show a flipper laying on the ground.
Indeed. Which really begs the question presented in the title: Whose arm is that in the final version?

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doubleofive said:

 

timdiggerm said:


Although the alternate cut of the original cantinia scene does clearly show a flipper laying on the ground.
Indeed. Which really begs the question presented in the title: Whose arm is that in the final version?

 

I think they first wanted the flipper, then decided it looked too weird/impossible to hold a gun. Then they decided to change the hand but didn't notice that you could see the original flipper before the fight.

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The best way to resolve these discrepancies: parallel universes.

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 (Edited)

LexX said:


I think they first wanted the flipper, then decided it looked too weird/impossible to hold a gun. Then they decided to change the hand but didn't notice that you could see the original flipper before the fight.
So they take a fish guy and hope you don't notice that he doesn't have furry clawed arms? It just does not compute.

The EU explanation is interesting/dumb. Apparently some Aqualish, from a planet covered with water, evolved to have furry five-fingered arms instead of flippers. Then they had to add another race when the Aqualish in the prequels have THREE fingers and FOUR eyes!

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Maybe the walrus' flipper turns into a furry hand when it's cut off, sort of like when a mermaid's fin turns into legs when she's on dry land? Just a theory.



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 (Edited)

I'd like to muddy the waters a little more on this one dwsiddall, as I've always looked on Obi-Wan as swiping twice in this scene!

We hear the lightsaber ignite, and immediately after we see the close-up of the blaster being raised by 'Freaky Nose', we see what looks like a short 1st swipe which would account for 'Freaky Nose's right arm being severed...which is followed by a 2nd swipe which I always look on as being directed at 'Walrus Guy' standing next to him.  Obi-Wan's taking no chances here.  (Have a look at the footage in slow motion or frame-by-frame to get a good look at what I mean)  And both characters are seen to collapse to the floor, which convinces me more.

So I'm pleased that adywan has shown 'Freaky Nose's arm beside the blaster in his version, as although I think 'Walrus Guy's right arm/'flipper' was severed too, it doesn't matter...as it's landed offsceen a little from 'Freaky Nose's arm, and is unseen by us.

 

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The furry hand looks a lot like the hand of the little guy standing next to the two vilains at the bar. Obi-Wan has a terrible aim in the official version.

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The blood is supposed to be there. The entire scene is a homage to a scene in Kurosawa's Yojimbo (which plays out almost identically), which also cuts to a shot of a bloody arm.

If anyone has a copy of Yojimbo and didn't catch it when watching it or haven't watched it yet, it happens about 19 minutes in.

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csl said:

The blood is supposed to be there. The entire scene is a homage to a scene in Kurosawa's Yojimbo (which plays out almost identically), which also cuts to a shot of a bloody arm.

If anyone has a copy of Yojimbo and didn't catch it when watching it or haven't watched it yet, it happens about 19 minutes in.

Interesting - i didn't know that.  Yojimbo is a great movie.  Definitely a must-see for anyone that hasn't seen it.   

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In the novel there were actually three assailants, including a rodent-like creature.  I wonder if they had considered using three instead of two in the film and ultimately cut out the guy whose arm it is.

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dwsiddall said:

<SNIP>

Also, as Freaky nose is falling backward, it is clear he still has both arms.

http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m521/dwsiddall/Cantina005.jpg

The lightsaber is already swung, so Obi Wan could n't have cut off Walrus Guy's arm.  This is simply a giant mistake.  If there is to be a corrected version of this scene, it needs to show Freaky nose falling backward with a smoldering shoulder and show a severed humanoid arm and hand, in a tan shirt.

Adywan's "correction" was fine. The arm is clearly severed about mid-way. The still you linked to doesn't show what's going on around Evazan's elbow.

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ImperialFighter said:


I'd like to muddy the waters a little more on this one dwsiddall, as I've always looked on Obi-Wan as swiping <span style="text-decoration: underline;">twice</span> in this scene!

We hear the lightsaber ignite, and immediately after we see the close-up of the blaster being raised by 'Freaky Nose', we see what looks like a short 1st swipe which would account for 'Freaky Nose's right arm being severed...which is followed by a 2nd swipe which I always look on as being directed at 'Walrus Guy' standing next to him.  Obi-Wan's taking no chances here.  (Have a look at the footage in slow motion or frame-by-frame to get a good look at what I mean)  And <span style="text-decoration: underline;">both</span> characters are seen to collapse to the floor, which convinces me more.


This is the way I've always viewed the secne. He cuts them both down. And that IS Walrus Man's arm. Which means it is a goof that he has one type of hand in one shot & a totally different hand in another shot. But I can live with it. It's a low(er) budget movie from 1977. A small contnuity error isn't going to break it for me (especially when it's not even an error with the plot or timeline or anything major).

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canofhumdingers said:

 

This is the way I've always viewed the secne. He cuts them both down. And that IS Walrus Man's arm. Which means it is a goof that he has one type of hand in one shot & a totally different hand in another shot. But I can live with it. It's a low(er) budget movie from 1977.

 

Seriously.

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That's what I wanted to post :-)

Freeky Nose should lose his arm, Walrus Guy was supposed to be chopped into several pieces

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Maybe Kenobi's age is decreasing his eyesight and that arm is what some might call "collateral damage."

Poor little guy :(

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I did the severed walrus arm shot along with Gary Kurtz in early 1977. Several days before we were to do the insert Gary brought the sleeve with him but not the correct hand . I dressed it with raspberry yogurt and red food coloring put it on a white plastic light diffuser and poured on sand. I believe it was the hand for the wolfman that was owned by Rick Baker. He lent many of the characters that appear in the bar scene. I also tried it with a severed head but Kurtz thought that was too gruesome . The real hand of the walrus did not look like the one you have illustrated. It was more like two fat fingers with flat nails, kind of like a sloth's fingers but with short , wide nails. 

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elvin peterson said:

I did the severed walrus arm shot along with Gary Kurtz in early 1977. Several days before we were to do the insert Gary brought the sleeve with him but not the correct hand.

Much thanks for all that info. elvin.

Couple of questions -

Gary Kurtz brought it several days before the shot?  Did neither of you notice at the time, or was it not possible to organise the correct hand during that time?

Also, although it looks to me like Obi-wan swipes twice in the footage, why was the 'Walrus Guy's arm shown on the floor in the first place rather than 'Freaky Nose's human-like arm, considering 'Freaky Nose' had been the one who was actually holding the blaster in the first place?...

And if you've seen adywan's 'Revisited' version (in motion preferably), what do you think of it?

 

 

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elvin peterson wrote: The real hand of the walrus did not look like the one you have illustrated. It was more like two fat fingers with flat nails, kind of like a sloth's fingers but with short , wide nails. 

Could they have come from the same mold as another character, and the nails were an applied piece?  Similar to these hands, maybe:

Thanks for dropping in!