I kind of noticed some blu-ray releases since the 2000s had them go digital, it was a lot tougher to get a proper remaster, like Rayearth, Outlaw Star, got a proper remaster, while Azumanga, and I think Lucky Star was upscaled I believed.
Some like Big O and Revolutionaly Girl Utena’s 3rd half had used both cels and digital animation, mainly in its second ending.
A lot of stuff just goes to disc without any menus compressed to hell and they don’t even dub most shows. Japanese releases except for the fact they almost never have dubs or subtitles are always superior on compression and quality.
The problem is far too many upscale old composite or component videotape and even if they made the effort to scan a negative at 4k or higher they hit it with DNR. And Q-Tec always filters releases scrubbed grain they even got a newish AI process that was used on Macross do you remember love. I even said what was the point of a 5k scan just to do what they did sharpen the image and degrain it.
I’m quite tired of them doing these film grain noise busting, it’s usually bad when they manage grain.
It was also done on Space Battleship Yamato to bring it into 4K for the 1977 film and for Farewell to Yamato from 78. You know there is a problem when the 4K has better color definition, but the blu-ray has more detail and filmgrain.
It has even happened with Akira.
Never mind they used a digital source for Ghost in the Shell a filmout tape and hit it with DNR. Why didn’t they just scan the interpositive used to make release prints. Sure, its further down than the filmout tape but its looks more organic.
Its revisionism.
Even when they do it right like with the Tenchi Muyo OVA or some older HD scans that scan never gets updated and its becomes the only master for decades in some cases like with Bubblegum Crisis which will probably never get a new 4K scan.
You even have Funi be the only ones to bother to do scans of Dragon Ball from film 16mm in fact in the level sets and then stop. Toei is a huge issue they just remaster old tapes. I’ve been asking for years where the HD scans for Transformers season 1 and 2 for instance, why can’t Toei and Sony BMI resolve their differences or whatever Hasbro has to do to get new masters made. Rhino had workprint 35mm negatives and somehow or another they’ve been lost since.
There is DNR on Sunrise shows like Outlaw Star and Dirty Fair but for the most part it’s not ruinous. Nor is it on Cowboy Bebop, though I would prefer none at all was applied.
I mentioned it with Utena later half and Big O but it’s absurd when anime used digital openings or endings, but the main episode is still cel, that is a common practice I noticed with these late 90s and early 2000s anime
I forgot to mention it, but one that could have benefit was Kare Kano (His or Her Circumstances) as this anime feels very rough, as it was transfered from tape. (like how Carranger to Timeranger were done on D-2 Cassette tapes or the Laserdisc mess of Star Wars that was the offical GOUT)
Keep in mind, Japan tends to use 16mm or at least some cheap film.
https://youtu.be/BEAElIH7Epk
This one I found, that someone used a filtered DVD rip as a base, and upscaled it twice and did some color correction.
there are shows that there were made on film the film material destroyed in favor of the tape because film storage is expensive, and they never intended to have HD anything back in the days of SD video.
Sometimes a reel of film gets lost for some reason or an entire episode goes missing.
Some of the studios even junked original audio tape master’s and original audio for shows.
Have to rely on fans that taped or recording the audio.
And you also have the case of film-based aka cel shows edited on tape. And redoing them for HD is expensive, it’s basically the process Star Trek TNG had to do as that final cut negative was broadcast masters.
What they do is go back to raw camera negative as if they are doing the show from scratch, this makes no sense for low budget anime OVA or tv shows.
It depends on the show and movie and whether the physical blu-ray or DVD sales or 4K sales warrant such a thing, if not streaming them.
Even Studio Ghibli except for Miyazaki’s latest film has not made the transition to 4K.
Then you have upscales like the upcoming Girl Who leapt through time and the recently released Wolf Children and Summer Wars. Mamoru Hosoda.
I also think Perfect Blue and Paprika were DNR, i’m not sure if those were 4k scans or 2k upscales.
I hope the rest of Artmic works show up or get new HD scans. Its a shame only Bubblegum Crisis has been done. Gall Force i have the laserdisc set and i waited forever for a HD version, i don’t even know if the film still exists or just another tape show.
Like i wish Evangelion episode 16 would show up in its original form on film.
Yeah, I forget that some remasters, have to rely on SD material as in the case of Cowboy Bebop, they only had the CGI stuff in SD, while the main anime is in HD.
This shot feels like it was a digital animation, rather then done on cel.
Often times, I feel like they still need to DNR which makes it look like it has less detail in them.
DNR tends to be a bit of a talking point, when it comes to using them on animation.
I even learned in Sentai like Kakuranger, despite being finalized on film, some effects like green screens are done in SD, or on tape. I question how was that even possible to transfer on film.
Also not going to lie, the digital openings and eds in conjunction with the actual episodes being in cel like Pokemon Johto was bizzare, especially when they didn’t wait to go all digital when it was about to end.
This also made me question, who is destroying the film after it was being finalized to sd/tape, because that could screw archivist.
Like, I’m pretty sure, almost every show recorded on film was archived at some sort.
I see Princess Mononoke had a 4K restoration screening in March by G-kids which I never had heard of.
Hopefully that means at least a Japanese 4K disc release is in the planning.
Sorry for the late message, but one thing that I’ve heard when it got a blu-ray release that only people noticed recentlly, is the pink tint in the old Sailor Moon anime.
https://vxtwitter.com/nappasan/status/1745335923435556995
(If only I knew how to properly do image or video embeds in this site.)
(If only I knew how to properly do image or video embeds in this site.)
AFAIK, video embeds aren’t a thing here, but you can embed images.
I refuse to dehumanize anyone. Your ethical/moral/political/religious views may be utterly repugnant to me, but I strive to hold Luke 23:34 close to my heart.
thanks
https://youtu.be/xa3pAcaIgFk
I was watching this video, to get an understanding on how old anime on film worked, and the process of restoration.
We haven’t even mentioned the AstroRes upscales, Q-Tec, or even the standard definition blu-ray anime releases.
Toei is almost a meme with their atrocious handling of galaxy express 999 and dragon ball. They fail is so many ways. When a film scan would be more than good enough, they instead use old composite video master they run through DNR.
And you would say fair enough if they don’t have the film anymore, but in a lot of cases they do and just choose not to spend the money.
Or they may have the film but thrown out the audio tapes.
For Galaxy Express I’m speaking of the previous DVD.
There is a new remaster and i’m not sure if the tv series is a film scan or not on the blu-ray, i know the films got new scans and HDR for cinema release. The images shown in samples look good but not film, obvious DNR and grain management. Sharpening via Q-Tec. Its pretty similar to the Yamato remasters in 4K.
Discotek puts out whatever Toei gives them. We never get the same materials in the states. They may be able to do justice in some way to Leiji Matsumoto work but they still haven’t fixed the Harlock situation those haven’t been redone in HD. And Endless Orbit SSX is in terrible condition and needs more than a shitty upscale. A film scan would be nice.
Galaxy Express 999, I don’t see anything out of the ordinary, but yeah Dragon Ball (the original) is a bit concerning
Guessing Z is more important to preserve than it’s original incarnation
(What is with the Z version being more proment than it’s original version.)
This was taken from a video saying that French got a better Blu-Ray
But yeah, Toei did not care if a show gets remastered like Carranger to Timeranger (They did not consider it being put on the DVD, due to the workflow that was inferior, and poor finalization on a D2 Cartridge Tape.)
I’ve heard the Sailor Moon VIZ DVD’s were 4x3 in a 16x9 pillarbox, but mind you DVD’s are 720x480p, so it’s just loosing infomation on the horizontal sides.
Even non anime produced by the Japanese like Transformers that is also Toei.
No HD version of that exists either. the finished negative was tape. all the retakes and finished edits were done on tape so while Rhino video had access to negative and interpositive sources they introduced problems with unfinished animation and errors.
Now no one knows where those negatives ended up there has been no attempt by Shout Factory to make a blu-ray. Even the Japanese Blu-Ray are standard def with no English subtitles or English dub. with The Japanese opening and closing.
It makes no sense to me they could get an interpositive and scan it in 4K for the 1986 film but not do at least the first two seasons in HD. The Toei ones. AKOM season 3 is not going to be improved by any HD restoration.
As for Toei and Dragon Ball or DBZ any negative would be better than old videotape. Its laughable that Funimation could scan 16mm prints well down from the negative and they were better than anything anyone has done. But they abandoned those. Why won’t Toei spend the money to scan their film sources in HD and higher.
Robotech is a different example while the original Macross was 35mm negative the Robotech master was 16mm dupe. Both are film scans. Both remastered in HD. The 35mm obviously is of a higher quality, North America didn’t get that the Japanese did.
Star Blazers also exists in 16mm. But Space Battleship Yamato season 1 at least is 35mm negative. There is a blu-ray in Japan of Yamato there is no HD Star blazers, no Star Blazers anything except for videotape they slapped on DVD. no HD scan.
https://vxtwitter.com/db_clip/status/1652450407380140035
I’ve just heard of DBZ having a pink tint
Transferring from cel to videotape in the old days was less than a perfect thing.
I have no doubt some of the color casts were not intended but they are how the shows looked. To make them look like the original cels is revisionism, maybe it’s one people want and enjoy.
Stuff stuck on standard def videotape and interlaced really does not look good.
Color correction is not a perfect science and those restoring an anime for blu-ray or streaming from less than perfect sources I’m willing to give the benefit of doubt to an extent, if they are working from component or composite videotape D1 or d2. or 1 inch masters or u-matic or Digi-Beta.
If they are working with film, it is another story. They have to get it right.
Even when the negative if filmout tape. Like with Ghost in the Shell no DNR should be applied.
What they did to Akira was ridiculous you had better color definition and more dynamic colors, but the DNR gave the 4k less detail than the blu-ray. And there are cases where they scan in 4k or even 5k and then they stack detail and sharpen an image like with Macross do You Remember love. It looks great and all but the film was never sharp its artificial detail. Never mind the part they only had videotape of and no film and had to upscale. As in Macross Flashback 2012.
As for weird tints unintended those are from the film to video telecine which did not reproduce the full color of the cel art. Its an artifact of an earlier era, you can restore them to cel colors but again that is also revisionism, you have to argue its one that was intended. I can’t speak for DBZ or Sailor Moon because i don’t have the laserdisc at hand to see the original telecine. Later applications of digital transfers you’d be surprised how faithful home video got. Cowboy Bebop laserdisc is not that far off from how the Blu-ray looks. Even the Tenchi Muyo THX set looks similar to the blu-ray. The early laserdiscs look like crap. Its amazing how terrible home video was for most of its life cycle. How people accepted imperfect colors, blurry picture. What was phenomenal about home video was generally excellent audio quality. Especially in regards to Hi-FI VHS and LPCM digital laserdisc.
DNR is a very touchy subject, especially with lower quality film like 16mm.
idk why, I doubt the star wars original trilogy’s infamous pink tint in the SE, was film degradation.
No you aren’t wrong the color cast on the star wars videodiscs the orange and pink tints was a product of the telecine.
16mm is completely possible in 1080p with no loss in quality a 2k scan is usual. You can scan 4k but most of the time they haven’t. 16mm negative and having to fall back on 16mm tv prints is a separate thing.
A show done in 35mm but with a missing negative and all they have left is a 16mm dupe or at best a master tape far away from the negative things can be dicey.
Most anime being 16mm or tape where no 35mm film source or negative does exist, you have the option to upscale or just do standard def Blu-ray. The remastering of tape sources using some form of dnr is quite common. And its the colorists job to grade the image, in the days of dvd it was generally what looked good or was done on the fly with little regard to historical accuracy.
On films where they believed the negative was lost in some cases they even used a laserdisc as their master. Anime i mean, no Hollywood film would ever rely on a laserdisc, i’m speaking of Project A-ko. Eventually the negative was found. But was lost for decades. The negative episode 16 of Eva has never turned up.
There are proper real HD masters of anime that happen in Japan and never get a US release. Like Devil Hunter Yohko, and i just found that in 2022 the Ova series for Armitige III and the films got an HD upgrade with the English dialog even.
No North American release of course.
And Space Battleship Yamato the films on blu-ray and 4k and the first season have been done, will never see the light of day here. The films for Galaxy Express getting new scans from film and not an upscale is a good thing, now do the tv series and both Harlock series from film and not video.
I hope seasons 2 and 3 eventually get better than DVD releases but highly unlikely due to their 16mm negative status.
Even something like the Nozomi Dirty Pair Blu-Rays went up like a puff of smoke since Crunchyroll took over, I don’t even think the Kickstarter backers got them. They are supposed to be replicated and on their way soon. Its only taken some years. No word on a mainstream release which I want, I have the Japanese Blu-Ray set.
35mm vs 16mm can be very insane when trying to convert it to 1080p or up. Often times I see their rips in 720p, because according to FortMax, some use upscale the 720p to 1080p, or they use certain techniques to justify broadcast or release mediums. Like I feel like some upscale the 480p to 1080p, or 2k to 4k on BD’s and 4K BD’s respectifivly to justify the medium.
Fairly recent digital done shows like 2009 maybe or a few years earlier done in 480P anime. Yeah those are usually upscaled by some company if they even bother to do Blu-Ray for them at all and just don’t have one DVD release. or they reissue them on DVD. Or put them up on a streaming site.
I’m thinking of Haruhi Suzumiya season 1 that was animated in SD. And I do have the Blu-ray. You might be able to trick me into thinking its 720P because it’s not the worst upscale but it is definitely not 1080P.
Even the alleged to be 2k master of the film in 1080P looks to me not very highly detailed and a rather low ish bitrate on the disc. If I was again told it was animated in 720p I would believe it.
Those are just one example.
There are cases where an upscale looks worse than the DVD like Lucky Star from Kyoani.
Or Shakugan No Shana from J.C. Staff.
And there are certainly decent examples but imperfect like the 4K of Nadia Secret of Blue Water. Which is from a film scan and not an upscale but had been subjected to DNR and has less detail than the previous blu-ray.
Most people are happy with the result of increased contrast and better colors. And being faithful to the animation cels and won’t be upset over the film grain being gone.
You also have really tremendously good remasters only knocked down a peg or two by the use of DNR like Urusei Yatsura original not remake tv series. Dirty Pair TV series, movie less subjected to DNR but still applied. Plus old gags removed for copywrite reasons ever since the remastered DVD. And need the old DVD or laserdisc for those scenes.
Ranma as well good film scans. Most of the Rumiko works. I forget if they redid Mason Ikkoku. Or the Rumik World. But certainly, the films of Inuyasha had good scans. I forget if the series did.
Sailor Moon on the other hand one imperfect DNR ridden fest, or at best decent upgrade over old video master material. I don’t have those blu-rays.
The original laserdisc have their drawbacks of course but no DNR applied. But poor telecine and some color issues. I wonder if some fan tried to upscale the laserdiscs.
And of course there is no 4:3 version of Beautiful Dreamer from Urusei Yatsura at all in the realm of HD. The last video master was on laserdisc. Which CPM cleaned up for DVD with its own associated frame blending and cadence issues. And English titles superimposed over Japanese ones. the 16:9 on the blu-ray as well is an ancient DVD master which was HD remastered but for DVD. Toho was going to do a new scan and had even pulled the Blu-Ray release for some years due to not even being up to a standard of quality, and then they release it as is anyway. The other ones were brand new scans but film 1 was not uncut like the DVD aka Only You. I have no idea who owns the rights to the tv series currently and the films except for film 2 being owned by Toho Co.
I mean because Kitty films is defunct, Pony Canyon obviously does not own the rights. Its likely Bandai or Warner Bros or some damn holdings group.
I did not want to double post but i just had quite a bit to say.
I’d be lying if i said DNR, Color correction and upscaling does not have their uses. But i dislike DNR intensely. The only cases i can think of where it may be necessary is where a damaged film source, or very dirty piece of film is scanned and limitedly applied as grain management and not global DNR. Also Q-Tec has their own upscale, and you have AstroRes.
As for AI like in the way Peter Jackson’s company uses it i don’t know if it would be a good use for anime. The type of image stacking, sharpening and manipulation.
And for computer cgi animation i did see Lord of the Rings from Sola Digital and some of the flying camera shots were very impressive.
The biggest use again of these oldest and newest tools in the video restoration toolbox is for old as hell composite video masters or 1 inch tape or digi-beta. Lots of shows, lots of OVA. That can’t be afforded a new film scan or the film may be lost, or it was animated on cel but finished on videotape and few such shows can warrant an expensive redo.
One of my favorites and a friend of mine’s favorites was his and her circumstances, well that does appear in not a so good place for a remaster. Or as its called in Japan Kare Kano. Anno.