When did The Empire Strikes Back become more highly regarded than Star Wars? — Page 5

Father Skywalker said:

Tyrphanax said:

Father Skywalker said:

SilverWook said:

Missed the joke by a mile.

An Empire founded before there was even a Rebellion, and killed lots of people in the process of an orchestrated war to create it.

I know that already, they started the clone wars to get to power. That doesn't explain anything about what life was like for imperial citizens. They all seemed pretty happy, very happy, regardless of the unjust methods that their leader came to power with.

Do you have any examples of how happy they were?

While democracy is the most ideal form of government, the lack of democracy, ie, a dictatorship, is not all that terribly and mythically evil, just some dictators and tyrants are......

Tattoine, everybody was walking around and living a normal life....

The same thing with Cloud City....

The same thing with Hoth....

The same thing with Endor-no Ewok genocides or massacres going on there.....

They slaughtered Jawas and Luke's aunt & uncle for having a brief association with some droids. Sounds fairly evil to me.

Also the only people on Hoth were rebels.

CapableMetal said:

Father Skywalker said:

No. After Alderaan was destroyed by the first death star (and despayre too, if U count the EU/the Expanded Universe)

However the empire tried to destroy Yavin IV, Endor, and Chandrila (senator mon mothma's home-planet) and the planet Mon Calamari (home to the mon calamari aliens), as self defense, a retaliation to the rebels. They destroyed 2 planets-the planets alderaan and depsayre, to test out the first death star and keep the galaxy (not just the rebels, but ordinary civilians too) in line with fear of its power. After the destruction of the first death star, the second death star was never used, or even attempted to be used, in an offensive attack/strike on an innocent civilian planet.....

Surely though the DSII was never used because it was never finished... Why would the Empire build a Death Star (the name alone should show that the Empire aren't exactly understanding of those it rules over) just to have it fly around the galaxy on the off-chance of finding some capital ships to blast away? It's not the most manoeuvrable or subtle craft. Destroying planets, or at least having the ability to destroy planets, is all part of its purpose; it is a weapon of fear to keep systems from defying the oppression of the Empire. The fact that both Death Stars were defeated before they got a chance to be properly used (Alderaan excluded) doesn't mean that they were never going to be used!

The point of the rebels wanting to blow both Death Star's up isn't just one of self defence, but also of necessity in their crusade to defeat the Empire and bring freedom back to the galaxy.

Sometimes, having interesting discussions with people, especially if it's about detailed or deep conversations (not small talk!!!!!) can be very hard and confusing, not only because of circular arguements and keeping track of what everybody is saying, but because understanding and interpeting what somebody means or is trying to say, especially if it's all really vague and stuff, or u dont get exactly what they're are talking about.

For instance, I said self defense. By self defense I meant defending innocent civilian planets, you could be interperting what I said as defending rebel military bases-too totally different topics and discussions.

What exactly was the point of blowing up the two death stars, beyond the obvious??? Exactly, the obvious!!!!!!

The DS2 almost tried to destroy 3 rebel planets, and I'll admit here that destroying any planet, regardless of whatever military enemies are on it, is evil, because it destroys the enviornment, plants, animals, and innocent life that is one that planet, however, just because one side does an evil deed, doesn't mean that their enemies are good.

Either the rebels defeated the empire before they could do anything evil on a large scale

And, most/all of the Star Wars SW fans will claim that the death star made the Galactic Sith Empire (duh it was ruled by two dark lords of the sith), and that was the reason that it was evil. However, you just implied that the death star was built to keep rebel terrorists in line. Defying the opression of the empire is another way of saying joining the rebel alliance and becoming a traitor to the imperial state, committing treason........

The empire's evil deeds were a response to the rebels alliance.......

CapableMetal said:

Father Skywalker said:

Tyrphanax said:

Father Skywalker said:

SilverWook said:

Missed the joke by a mile.

An Empire founded before there was even a Rebellion, and killed lots of people in the process of an orchestrated war to create it.

I know that already, they started the clone wars to get to power. That doesn't explain anything about what life was like for imperial citizens. They all seemed pretty happy, very happy, regardless of the unjust methods that their leader came to power with.

Do you have any examples of how happy they were?

While democracy is the most ideal form of government, the lack of democracy, ie, a dictatorship, is not all that terribly and mythically evil, just some dictators and tyrants are......

Tattoine, everybody was walking around and living a normal life....

The same thing with Cloud City....

The same thing with Hoth....

The same thing with Endor-no Ewok genocides or massacres going on there.....

They slaughtered Jawas and Luke's aunt & uncle for having a brief association with some droids. Sounds fairly evil to me.

Also the only people on Hoth were rebels.

What's is Your point by claiming that the only people on Hoth were rebel soldiers??? What's that gotta do with arguing anything that I said, my points that I was trying to prove???

They did slaughter the Jawa and Luke skywalker's aunt and uncle for having some droids with them. Yes, that was most certainly evil, there is no question about the evil nature of the slaughter of some innocent helpless defenseless civilians, you gotta remember that during WW2, the Allied powers did some war crimes too. Does that make the axis powers the good guys???? OF COURSE NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Both sides can commit evil during a war. The Soviet russian army soldiers did bad stuff to german women during WW2 in order to get revenge at the germans, by bringing innocent civilian people involved into it. The american troops killed some helpless prisorners of war.....

That doesn't make the Allied Powers evil overall, because in the long run they did rid the world of evil sickos........

Tyrphanax said:

Father Skywalker said:

Tyrphanax said:

Father Skywalker said:

SilverWook said:

Missed the joke by a mile.

An Empire founded before there was even a Rebellion, and killed lots of people in the process of an orchestrated war to create it.

I know that already, they started the clone wars to get to power. That doesn't explain anything about what life was like for imperial citizens. They all seemed pretty happy, very happy, regardless of the unjust methods that their leader came to power with.

Do you have any examples of how happy they were?

While democracy is the most ideal form of government, the lack of democracy, ie, a dictatorship, is not all that terribly and mythically evil, just some dictators and tyrants are......

Tattoine, everybody was walking around and living a normal life....

The same thing with Cloud City....

The same thing with Hoth....

The same thing with Endor-no Ewok genocides or massacres going on there.....

Going from the movies alone, with no EU:

The Empire did not control Tatooine, the Hutts control Tatooine. The Imperial presence there was looking for the droids only.

The Empire did not control Cloud City, it was neutral, as Lando said; and when the Empire started to take Cloud City over, you'll remember that everyone ran for their lives.

Nothing lived on Hoth, as Han said. The only people living there were Rebels.

Nothing but Ewoks lived on the Sanctuary Moon; and they were a primitive civilization and weren't even a concern of the Empire, the Empire just put a base there.

You can mention the EU expanded universe in your posts, just tell me if it's EU or not.....

Please mention the EU a bit in these discussions, but don't rely on it 100%, don't rely on the films 100% either, I use both of em!!!!!!

Please give me a quote to prove where Han Solo said that nobody lived on the icy planet of Hoth. Maybe in the Expanded Universe they live on Hoth.....

Meh, I don't all that much about cloud city, so I can't say anything or respond to ur posts about it.....

SilverWook said:

"There are no good wars, with the following exceptions: the American Revolution, World War II, and the Star Wars Trilogy. "

-Bart Simpson 1990

Define a "good war"

From a religious perspective, war is evil because when people die, some of them go to hell...........

The American Revolution was not a just war............

The Second World War (WW2) saved many tens of millions of innocent lives from Adolf Hitler's evil government, so it was a just war...........

Tyrphanax said:

Father Skywalker said:

You can mention the EU expanded universe in your posts, just tell me if it's EU or not.....

Please mention the EU a bit in these discussions, but don't rely on it 100%, don't rely on the films 100% either, I use both of em!!!!!!

Please give me a quote to prove where Han Solo said that nobody lived on the icy planet of Hoth. Maybe in the Expanded Universe they live on Hoth.....

Meh, I don't all that much about cloud city, so I can't say anything or respond to ur posts about it.....

"There's not enough life on this ice cube to fill a space cruiser."

Maybe the EU (the expanded universe) mentions that there is life on the planet of Hoth

What the hell/heck does Hoth have to do with anything in our discussions????

Father Skywalker said:

CapableMetal said:

Father Skywalker said:

No. After Alderaan was destroyed by the first death star (and despayre too, if U count the EU/the Expanded Universe)

However the empire tried to destroy Yavin IV, Endor, and Chandrila (senator mon mothma's home-planet) and the planet Mon Calamari (home to the mon calamari aliens), as self defense, a retaliation to the rebels. They destroyed 2 planets-the planets alderaan and depsayre, to test out the first death star and keep the galaxy (not just the rebels, but ordinary civilians too) in line with fear of its power. After the destruction of the first death star, the second death star was never used, or even attempted to be used, in an offensive attack/strike on an innocent civilian planet.....

Surely though the DSII was never used because it was never finished... Why would the Empire build a Death Star (the name alone should show that the Empire aren't exactly understanding of those it rules over) just to have it fly around the galaxy on the off-chance of finding some capital ships to blast away? It's not the most manoeuvrable or subtle craft. Destroying planets, or at least having the ability to destroy planets, is all part of its purpose; it is a weapon of fear to keep systems from defying the oppression of the Empire. The fact that both Death Stars were defeated before they got a chance to be properly used (Alderaan excluded) doesn't mean that they were never going to be used!

The point of the rebels wanting to blow both Death Star's up isn't just one of self defence, but also of necessity in their crusade to defeat the Empire and bring freedom back to the galaxy.

Sometimes, having interesting discussions with people, especially if it's about detailed or deep conversations (not small talk!!!!!) can be very hard and confusing, not only because of circular arguements and keeping track of what everybody is saying, but because understanding and interpeting what somebody means or is trying to say, especially if it's all really vague and stuff, or u dont get exactly what they're are talking about.

For instance, I said self defense. By self defense I meant defending innocent civilian planets, you could be interperting what I said as defending rebel military bases-too totally different topics and discussions.

What exactly was the point of blowing up the two death stars, beyond the obvious??? Exactly, the obvious!!!!!!

The DS2 almost tried to destroy 3 rebel planets, and I'll admit here that destroying any planet, regardless of whatever military enemies are on it, is evil, because it destroys the enviornment, plants, animals, and innocent life that is one that planet, however, just because one side does an evil deed, doesn't mean that their enemies are good.

Either the rebels defeated the empire before they could do anything evil on a large scale

And, most/all of the Star Wars SW fans will claim that the death star made the Galactic Sith Empire (duh it was ruled by two dark lords of the sith), and that was the reason that it was evil. However, you just implied that the death star was built to keep rebel terrorists in line. Defying the opression of the empire is another way of saying joining the rebel alliance and becoming a traitor to the imperial state, committing treason........

The empire's evil deeds were a response to the rebels alliance.......

I implied no such thing. You misunderstand my point. The Death Star was built to keep the systems under the Empire's territories in line. The Empire is obviously an undesirable element to most or all of the systems it controls.

Grand Moff Tarkin implies as much ("Fear will keep the local systems in line; fear of this battle station.") He makes no mention of 'rebel terrorists' in that instance. The rebels exist to help free the galaxy from the oppression of the Empire. It says this in plain English at the start of the film ('Rebel ships striking from a hidden base have won their first victory against the evil Galactic Empire'). The fact that it is led by two Sith lords may have little/nothing to do with why those under the control of the Empire are disliking it; its likely due to trade restrictions, taxes, and the removal of personal liberties and other such things that such regimes enforce. Either way, the fact that they need to build a planet-destroying space station clearly shows that they're obviously aware that more people will want to break free from their control and they want to stop them from doing so. That must mean the populations under their control aren't happy and the Empire knows this, otherwise you wouldn't need a Death Star!?

Father Skywalker said:

Tyrphanax said:

Father Skywalker said:

You can mention the EU expanded universe in your posts, just tell me if it's EU or not.....

Please mention the EU a bit in these discussions, but don't rely on it 100%, don't rely on the films 100% either, I use both of em!!!!!!

Please give me a quote to prove where Han Solo said that nobody lived on the icy planet of Hoth. Maybe in the Expanded Universe they live on Hoth.....

Meh, I don't all that much about cloud city, so I can't say anything or respond to ur posts about it.....

"There's not enough life on this ice cube to fill a space cruiser."

Maybe the EU (the expanded universe) mentions that there is life on the planet of Hoth

What the hell/heck does Hoth have to do with anything in our discussions????

You said that people were living perfectly happy lives on Tatooine, Cloud City and Hoth. I merely pointed out that Hoth only has a rebel population anyway. You brought it up.

CapableMetal said:

Father Skywalker said:

CapableMetal said:

Father Skywalker said:

No. After Alderaan was destroyed by the first death star (and despayre too, if U count the EU/the Expanded Universe)

However the empire tried to destroy Yavin IV, Endor, and Chandrila (senator mon mothma's home-planet) and the planet Mon Calamari (home to the mon calamari aliens), as self defense, a retaliation to the rebels. They destroyed 2 planets-the planets alderaan and depsayre, to test out the first death star and keep the galaxy (not just the rebels, but ordinary civilians too) in line with fear of its power. After the destruction of the first death star, the second death star was never used, or even attempted to be used, in an offensive attack/strike on an innocent civilian planet.....

Surely though the DSII was never used because it was never finished... Why would the Empire build a Death Star (the name alone should show that the Empire aren't exactly understanding of those it rules over) just to have it fly around the galaxy on the off-chance of finding some capital ships to blast away? It's not the most manoeuvrable or subtle craft. Destroying planets, or at least having the ability to destroy planets, is all part of its purpose; it is a weapon of fear to keep systems from defying the oppression of the Empire. The fact that both Death Stars were defeated before they got a chance to be properly used (Alderaan excluded) doesn't mean that they were never going to be used!

The point of the rebels wanting to blow both Death Star's up isn't just one of self defence, but also of necessity in their crusade to defeat the Empire and bring freedom back to the galaxy.

Sometimes, having interesting discussions with people, especially if it's about detailed or deep conversations (not small talk!!!!!) can be very hard and confusing, not only because of circular arguements and keeping track of what everybody is saying, but because understanding and interpeting what somebody means or is trying to say, especially if it's all really vague and stuff, or u dont get exactly what they're are talking about.

For instance, I said self defense. By self defense I meant defending innocent civilian planets, you could be interperting what I said as defending rebel military bases-too totally different topics and discussions.

What exactly was the point of blowing up the two death stars, beyond the obvious??? Exactly, the obvious!!!!!!

The DS2 almost tried to destroy 3 rebel planets, and I'll admit here that destroying any planet, regardless of whatever military enemies are on it, is evil, because it destroys the enviornment, plants, animals, and innocent life that is one that planet, however, just because one side does an evil deed, doesn't mean that their enemies are good.

Either the rebels defeated the empire before they could do anything evil on a large scale

And, most/all of the Star Wars SW fans will claim that the death star made the Galactic Sith Empire (duh it was ruled by two dark lords of the sith), and that was the reason that it was evil. However, you just implied that the death star was built to keep rebel terrorists in line. Defying the opression of the empire is another way of saying joining the rebel alliance and becoming a traitor to the imperial state, committing treason........

The empire's evil deeds were a response to the rebels alliance.......

I implied no such thing. You misunderstand my point. The Death Star was built to keep the systems under the Empire's territories in line. The Empire is obviously an undesirable element to most or all of the systems it controls.

Grand Moff Tarkin implies as much ("Fear will keep the local systems in line; fear of this battle station.") He makes no mention of 'rebel terrorists' in that instance. The rebels exist to help free the galaxy from the oppression of the Empire. It says this in plain English at the start of the film ('Rebel ships striking from a hidden base have won their first victory against the evil Galactic Empire'). The fact that it is led by two Sith lords may have little/nothing to do with why those under the control of the Empire are disliking it; its likely due to trade restrictions, taxes, and the removal of personal liberties and other such things that such regimes enforce. Either way, the fact that they need to build a planet-destroying space station clearly shows that they're obviously aware that more people will want to break free from their control and they want to stop them from doing so. That must mean the populations under their control aren't happy and the Empire knows this, otherwise you wouldn't need a Death Star!?

High taxes, trade rescritions, no personal rights and freedoms, are what Darth Vader/Anakin Skywalker's epic and dramatic redemption is about???? No!!!!!!!

So, millions of people with families that they loved and cared about and who grieved for their losses were horribly burned to death in two fiery explosions

Just so people could have lower taxes????? What the????????

Tyrphanax said:

Father Skywalker said:

Tyrphanax said:

Father Skywalker said:

You can mention the EU expanded universe in your posts, just tell me if it's EU or not.....

Please mention the EU a bit in these discussions, but don't rely on it 100%, don't rely on the films 100% either, I use both of em!!!!!!

Please give me a quote to prove where Han Solo said that nobody lived on the icy planet of Hoth. Maybe in the Expanded Universe they live on Hoth.....

Meh, I don't all that much about cloud city, so I can't say anything or respond to ur posts about it.....

"There's not enough life on this ice cube to fill a space cruiser."

Maybe the EU (the expanded universe) mentions that there is life on the planet of Hoth

What the hell/heck does Hoth have to do with anything in our discussions????

I don't even know, you brought it up!

Oh, now I remember. We were discussing what life was like in the empire, and the examples that the star wars movies/films, showed us.........

Tyrphanax said:

Father Skywalker said:

High taxes, trade rescritions, no personal rights and freedoms, are what Darth Vader/Anakin Skywalker's epic and dramatic redemption is about???? No!!!!!!!

So, millions of people with families that they loved and cared about and who grieved for their losses were horribly burned to death in two fiery explosions

Just so people could have lower taxes????? What the????????

What about all the innocents who died on Alderaan, a civilian target? Did nobody there have families? Those attacks were unprovoked. If Princess Leia stole the plans, shouldn't they have killed her instead of blowing up a whole planet full of people who had nothing to do with the stolen plans and were peaceful, happy citizens of the Empire?

The Death Stars, however, were military targets, controlled and manned by military personnel, all of whom joined the military knowing the risks of being in the military. No peaceful innocent citizens on those at all.

Did you not read my post above WW2/the second world war and allied war crimes????

Yes, the destruction of alderaan was a war crime, but just because one side commits a war crime doesn't mean anything on who's the good guys or the bad guys, the big picture does.......

Whats ur point by saying that the death star was a military target???

In the EU, women and children, not to mention the contractors and construction workers, were on it. What about the drafted stormtroopers and imperials??? The rebels soldiers should've been kind to them and helped them escape......

You just contradicted yourself, too........

Yeah, and even though you might expect people to be conscripted for the Empire, and therefore more or less innocent, the only information given in the films is voluntary service. Luke wants to join the Imperial Academy (to jump ship for the Rebellion, as we learn in the deleted Biggs scenes), but his Uncle says no way. So, it was a choice Luke made on his own, and in the end he didn't even end up joining because his guardian forbid him. That makes the Death Star personell fair game. They were serving as the command crew in what is ultimately a habitable weapon of mass destruction. Mass destruction doesn't even begin to describe the level of weapon they were crew members of. It's essentially like bombing a tank and killing the tank crew inside, only the tank that the Empire built required the manpower of a whole space station. But nonetheless, the world's biggest tank it was.

Father Skywalker said:

High taxes, trade rescritions, no personal rights and freedoms, are what Darth Vader/Anakin Skywalker's epic and dramatic redemption is about???? No!!!!!!!

No. I didn't say that. Its just a thread of the story, it provides motive for the actions of the rebellion.

So, millions of people with families that they loved and cared about and who grieved for their losses were horribly burned to death in two fiery explosions

 

 

Just so people could have lower taxes????? What the????????

Yes. I did say that. Although to put it in such simple terms without thinking of the other reasons that justify those deaths, like the higher number of casualties at the hands of the Empire, is rather short-sighted. Alderaan didn't need to be destroyed but it was. The Empire is not shown to have empathy, but it is shown to exterminate an entire planet (with likely billions of innocents) without remorse. It all adds up to one unhappy galactic populace who want to be free. That is quite a big part of the story in OT, and is also present in the PT. Its not the main arc, but its certainly up there.

CapableMetal said:

Father Skywalker said:

High taxes, trade rescritions, no personal rights and freedoms, are what Darth Vader/Anakin Skywalker's epic and dramatic redemption is about???? No!!!!!!!

No. I didn't say that. Its just a thread of the story, it provides motive for the actions of the rebellion.

So, millions of people with families that they loved and cared about and who grieved for their losses were horribly burned to death in two fiery explosions

 

 

Just so people could have lower taxes????? What the????????

Yes. I did say that. Although to put it in such simple terms without thinking of the other reasons that justify those deaths, like the higher number of casualties at the hands of the Empire, is rather short-sighted. Alderaan didn't need to be destroyed but it was. The Empire is not shown to have empathy, but it is shown to exterminate an entire planet (with likely billions of innocents) without remorse. It all adds up to one unhappy galactic populace who want to be free. That is quite a big part of the story in OT, and is also present in the PT. Its not the main arc, but its certainly up there.

Then, by that logic, what is the main story arc????

nowhere did luke skywalker even once say "I can feel the conflict within you, my father, you can turn over to the good/light side and give us lower taxes and trade routes".....

Also, here, I will quote some other person's website for copyright reasons........

http://scottjen.wordpress.com/2012/05/05/the-empire-part-2/

And say this, right now.........

Defending the Destruction of Alderaan

Galactic Population. Kinda scary how many people there are.

One question I haven’t dealt with is the Death Star.  You could use the whole “Clerks Argument” that Luke is a mass murderer himself for destroying the first Death Star and that Lando is equally bad for the second one.  I don‘t take that stance.  Instead, I’d like to suggest, for example, that the Death Star’s destruction—given the scale of the galaxy—is minute and irrelevant.

This is the only part where I’ll probably refer to the EU at all, but there’s no way around it.  EU sources estimate the galaxy at having about 20 millionsentient species in about 180 billion star systems.  A rough estimate suggests about 100 quadrillion beings based upon those numbers.  For some scope, that’s 100 with 15 zeroes afterwards.  That is 14,618,800 times the population of earth.

The population of Alderaan at the time of its destruction was about 1.97 billion people.  Given the overall galactic population, the population of Alderaan was at the time a paltry .00000197% of the galactic populace. Let’s think of that destruction in terms of equivalent death of population here on earth.  Out of about 6.8 billion people on Earth, killing a proportional amount would equal, get this, 135 human lives.

Compared to another weapon of mass destruction, the atomic bomb, the Death Star pales in comparison.  The death toll at Nagasaki (which is considered to be conservative due to deaths from radiation, issues counting, etc) was estimated at 150,000. That means that America dropping that bomb—which keep in mind did kill civilians—was 1111 times more destructive (in scale) than the use of the Death Star.

Considering that the use of the Death Star was that “fear will keep them in line”, it makes sense that the Empire would have to demonstrate this power.  Even then, I doubt that the fear of the Death Star really motivated a ton of people.  It is, as far as weapons of mass destruction, pretty bad.  It takes forever to deploy (the time it took to orbit Yavin and get Yavin 4 in sight was enough for it to be destroyed), it is huge and slow-moving which makes it visible from very far away.  Most of all, it (probably) cost an absurd amount of money and even destroying a planet, is not the best way to go.  Orbital bombardment of a planet would be cheaper, easier and just as destructive.

The Death Star, ultimate symbol of power and waste.

The Death Star is, more than anything, a symbol.  It is a symbol in the same way that the atomic bomb was.  It was the ace up the Empire’s sleeve, in that anybody who might want to perform terrorist acts would face the wrath of the Death Star.

Now, it’s easy to talk about this in a detached manner because Alderaan is a fictional planet.  Don’t get me wrong, extinguishing almost two billion lives with one shot is pretty terrible.   But when you consider that the demonstration was meant to keep rebellious planets in line—and there was no doubt that Alderaan was one of the rebellious planets—it was a small-scale demonstration of the power of the Death Star.  It can snub entire populations, but losing 2 billion people versus the scale of the galaxy is a footnote, not a tragedy.

Again, it’s easy to think this way because we are detached from it—as it is fiction—but consider again thatAmerica’s use of nuclear weapons exterminated way more of the known population than the Death Star.

Anyway, friends, that is it for this installment.  Look for the third installment where I look to skewer the Rebel Alliance in almost every way possible!

Tyrphanax said:

I didn't see any women or children on the Death Star in the films. Please stop only using the EU when it is convenient to your point. Either use it or don't.

The Death Star was a military weapon with a military purpose, manned by military personnel and in military service. It was therefore a military target. In a war, a military target is a much more acceptable thing to attack than is a civilian target.

Many ships were sunk during World War I, but none of them made half as much news as did the Lusitania. That's because the navy ships were acceptable military targets, and thus acceptable casualties of war, no matter how many of the men had families; where as the Lusitania was an unacceptable civilian target and this an unacceptable innocent casualty.

You don't just help enemy combatants to escape. The point is to defeat the enemy, and when they are about to blow your planet up, you don't stop to evacuate everyone while they blow your base up in the meantime; you kill them as quick as you can to save your friends. Beyond that, every single person on board the Death Star at Yavin was complicit in the destruction of Alderaan, making them all war criminals; women and children, drafted soldiers or contractors. There was not one innocent person on that station.

nothing in the films ever confirmed or disproved the existence of women or children on any of the two death stars......

the Expanded UNiverse (the EU), did however.......

Even drafted male soldiers and innocent little 5-year olds and todders and babies deserved it?????

Well, weren't you the one discounting the EU in another thread or this? The EU can make up whatever it wants. It's like if you got a job writing a comic, you could put something like that in there. It's cool that those writers have that interpretation of the film. But it's just an interpretation. It doesn't make it so when we are discussing the films. In the films, the only enlisted service ever spoken of is voluntary, and we never see, nor are given reason to believe, there are women and children on board. What purpose would that serve anyway? Another reason I gave up on the EU 12 years ago.