When Should we see the Falcons Mandibles out the window? — Page 2

Mrebo said:

I hope this debate rages for years. Especially the definition of matte painting. But it seems all the mock ups show a mandible jutting upward in relation to the cockpit at an angle some would consider to be unnatural.

 Not any more...

Yeah it's probably not 100% correct but, you can now start to see the angles and how the perspective works(probably not scaled correctly either). I have never really been much good at art so now most of the difficult bit of figuring it out to a (near enough) degree is done. But I will leave the rest to any talented artists that really want to make me drool and sell the image much better than what I could ever do.

Now Bingowings brought up about star destroyers now to be honest I don't think there are any perspective issues with any of the out the window shots but if he was referring to making a shot where you look out the bridge and see the ship below yes I agree that would be an interesting image to digest.

But also there are a few other problems with perspective with other ships cockpits but I think the most interesting thing that Bingowings brought up was the Emperors tower on the Death Star 2...This does have some very serious perspective issues.

If any one feels up for going hunting for any perspective problems I would be interested to see them.

darth_ender said:

Ronster's day:

Wake up

Pour cereal

Put in some version of TESB

Watch 6 frames of TESB while eating cereal

Pore over significance of said frames trying to find something that gives away that we are watching a movie and not real life

Post on OT.com

If it's not too busy, have lunch and dinner somewhere in there

Toss and turn over that day's wretched discoveries as they destroy viewing experience permanently unless fixed by Adywan until falling asleep

;)

Nice link there Anchorhead.  The full-scale Falcon sure looks good in some of those mocked-up POV angles the artist showed.

Assuming his cockpit POVs are fairly accurate too, this guy's mock-ups definitely confirm for me that the nearest 'mandible' to the cockpit would *not* be visible in any of the actual cockpit camera POVs we see in the OT movies.

But these mock-ups sure make me hope we get a camera POV in J.J.'s movie that *does*! :)

It's a lovely model but it is STAR WARS screen accurate and the dimensions don't match the cockpit of the ESB & ROTJ one.

Now spot the difference in the ESB and ROTJ cockpit from this model

The dimensions are different. The frame is higher. Now weather this is an un-cropped cockpit view it is on 2004 bonus disc. But I think it is a slightly different angle to the cockpit shot I am pointing to.

You going to have to drop the Star wars cockpit I already have said we would not see the mandible in the first film because we never get to the camera angle as the one in question.

You also need to think about what happens the higher you go with the camera the mandible becomes more visible. And think of it like the cockpit got bigger and wider to the right. It's a bit of a Tardis effect.

The cockpit shot from the 2004 Bonus disc is an un-cropped version of the cockpit view I can confirm that now.. And that means we are lower in the cockpit than I initially thought. But it is slightly less wide.

I am happy to reconcile and conceed that the madible would not be visible at this angle based on filling in the blanks at what angle the camera is now positioned at. Now we can see a better picture of where we are in the cockpit. :) 3 down 1 to go...

The Space Slug escape POV View still needs to be explored also.

This is absolutely in no way a cropped cockpit... well it might be, but It is much higher up and looking up and I am pretty much certain the conditions here are a dead cert for seeing the mandible here.

It may be worth trying to match up the angles with that full cockpit to ascertain position of the camera. The question is if it is cropped then it would be more than likely cropped at the bottom and not at the top as the 2004 bonus disc displays.

DuracellEnergizer said:

darth_ender said:

Ronster's day:

Wake up

Pour cereal

Put in some version of TESB

Watch 6 frames of TESB while eating cereal

Pore over significance of said frames trying to find something that gives away that we are watching a movie and not real life

Post on OT.com

If it's not too busy, have lunch and dinner somewhere in there

Toss and turn over that day's wretched discoveries as they destroy viewing experience permanently unless fixed by Adywan until falling asleep

;)

Sorry Ronster, I'm still not convinced.  I don't think we'd see the 'mandible' in the 'slug' POV shot you've shown at the bottom of your post either...as I stiil think it would be too 'angled away' to the left of that cockpit view to be seen...and would still be hidden by the lower interior cockpit wall section on the left of that shot.

And that goes for *all* the shots looking out of the altered ESB/ROTJ cockpit too, as well as the cockpit seen in the original movie.

I just think the 'mandible' is too 'angled away' from the interior cockpit POVs seen in the movies, and I find looking at a 'birds-eye' view of the Falcon's shape helps to judge it better -

However...if it turns out adywan ends up showing the 'mandible' in any of his final OT:Revisited Falcon cockpit shots, then I'll be the first to admit to you that I was mistaken on this issue. :)

By the way...while it was neat that adywan added in the 'missing spar' to the original STAR WARS Falcon cockpit windows, does anyone happen to know why the makers *added* it to the design of the ESB cockpit version in the first place?  Just curious.

Still, all this talk of the Falcon's cockpit gives me an excuse to show this awesome version I recently came across - http://imgur.com/UizeGTo

Not a problem Imperial Fighter at all...

I am finding this all very confusing myself but interesting all the same and find myself swinging to and fro between thinking "Yes" we should be able to see it and then recounting that and then saying "No" we should not be able to see it.

Although I feel discovering that the POV shot we have been looking at is cropped.. I would like to touch on something you mentioned earlier about the mandibles face being under the ring (well it is in the ESB and ROTJ version anyway) I am not sure I have no time today to really check this but will do soon. But as I have been saying about height gain and if the cockpit in the ESB & ROTJ versions is actually also higher.

I may actually go to the RPF and ask for a few snaps out the window from Stinson on this model matched closely to the shots in the films just so we can settle this fairly conclusively as we are playing silly guessing games and trying to figure out pespectives on some pretty strange angles.

ImperialFighter said:

 Out of curiosity, what book is this from?

EDIT: Though I imagine you just got this from a Google search.

Ronster said:

I would like to touch on something you mentioned earlier about the mandibles face being under the ring (well it is in the ESB and ROTJ version anyway) I am not sure I have no time today to really check this but will do soon. But as I have been saying about height gain and if the cockpit in the ESB & ROTJ versions is actually also higher.

Ronster, not sure what you mean by the 'ring' (unless you mean the circular cockpit window at the front), but I was actually suggesting the top edge of the 'mandible' looked as if it was slightly below the level of the *side* cockpit windows (no matter which movie version of the cockpit section you wish to refer to).

And here's another interestingly-angled mock-up I came across, which shows what I mean quite clearly -

Now I really must move on from this particular issue...as my kids are missing me. ;)

___________________________________________________

@ RicOlie_2 -  yes, that 'birds-eye-view' Falcon image was just something I randomly googled for reference.  However, I did a quick check for you...but although there seems to be a couple of similar graphics out there in the same style, I can't find where they originated from to begin with.

@ Anchorhead & adywan -  thanks for the info. about that 'missing spar'.  Interesting to hear that the full-size cockpit originally had glass (or perspex?) in place too.

xhonzi said:

Mrebo said:

There are many definition of matte painting that lead to a mandible jutting upward in relation to the cockpit at an angle that some would consider to be... unnatural.

 

 I am shocked that darth_ender hasn't posted the rebuttal yet.

SHOCKED!!!

RicOlie_2 said:

At heart, hard-core OTers are no different than all the fans who discuss the trivialities of the EU and try to reconcile the various discontinuities, they just talk about different things. ;)

 So...they're all annoying?

;-)

TV's Frink said:

xhonzi said:

Mrebo said:

There are many definition of matte painting that lead to a mandible jutting upward in relation to the cockpit at an angle that some would consider to be... unnatural.

 

 I am shocked that darth_ender hasn't posted the rebuttal yet.

SHOCKED!!!

 Well, I was tempted, but then I worry about what I can and can't get away with when out of Off Topic.

But....

Then I thought about this topic and whether or not I cared if the mandibles were visible and I decided...

^I don't think anyone beyond Ronster really does.

"you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view."

^RIGHT PHOTO!

SilverWook said:

I'm having a hard time thinking of any side shot of the cockpit from Chewie's side looking towards Han. It's possible they didn't want to have to deal with showing a bit of the Falcon's exterior in those scenes.

Will be interesting to see if we get that sort of shot in Episode 7 though.

 Absolutely SilverWook that is part of the magic of film making. not showing this angle ever in any of the OT Star wars films.

Because it is not filmed in that cockpit.

It's about time Han's Head was there in profile in this day and age

Thanks to this thread, all I see now when I look at the Falcon is a lobe-finned fish.

Revised positioning on the mandible. Based on how low beneath the cockpit it is. It is starting to become a lot clearer to me now.

May the 4th be with you anyway, Ronster. ;)