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What the fuck??? : George is definitely gone "bye bye"

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The man is nuts. He can't accept that fact that people prefere something he didn't do. His ego is so big, it's scary. Empire was, is and will always be the best episode. Period!
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Wow. What a huge slap in the face to Kershner. Great going, George. You're a really nice guy!

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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I love how Peter Sciretta points out that a lot of people don't know that Lucas didn't direct Empire because it's true, a lot of people really don't know that.
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He is just pissed and jealous, because Kershner did what he couldn't. Make a good film without slapstick in your face fart and poop jokes.


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Fortunately George was able to make Empire so much better by replacing Boba Fett's voice, adding a scene in the middle of the film where Vader is surprised to learn that the Skywalker he's sent the entire Imperial Fleet after is the son of Anakin Skywalker, and adding a tension-breaking scene where his shuttle lands on the Executor, whose docking bay looks exactly like the one on Death Star II AND is met by Moff Jerjerod. I mean, this movie would have sucked if he hadn't done this.

Meanwhile, I find it hysterical that George kept telling his marketing people to say that Episode II and Episode III were going to be like Empire. I guess in his mind he wanted us to know they were going to suck?

Yoda say: Man who speaks with forked tongue hides it in large goiter on neck.
I am fluent in over six million forms of procrastination.
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ESB as a stand alone flick.... doesn't work. No beginning, middle or end... it's just the middle.

I'm willing to bet there's more to that story than the clearly biased "reporter" wrote.

(and before you flip out, ESB is my fave too)
"Among many things I have to be thankful for are you, the fans. I know that some of you haven't liked every single thing that I've done with the saga, and that you have a strong sense of ownership over all things Star Wars. But take that passion and devotion and channel it into a creative project of your own."
-George Lucas
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George was being sardonic here people. I'm not one to normally defend George, but he is making a joke.
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Originally posted by: Sluggo
George was being sardonic here people. I'm not one to normally defend George, but he is making a joke.


I hope you are right, or Lucas has some reality issues regarding how his fans fill about this beautiful piece of filmmaking magic.


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The whole thing was sort of a joke anyway. The man was the publicist for the Empire Strikes Back, probably the most anticipated movie up to that point in history, sequel to the most successful movie in history. George was just joking the reason Empire was so successful was only because it had a good publicist.
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I think ol Georgie is joking, cause he wouldn't take a shot at any SW film unless he was joking, which means he knows exactly what he is saying.

Last year on The Stephen Colbert show, Colbert asked Lucas if he owned all the SW movies on DVD, and Lucas replied, "Yes I do......even TPM!" Which was a joke, but a calculated one. He knows TPM took a beating by critics and fans, and he knows Jar Jar is disdained by any fan over the age of 8, thats why his role is severely cut in AOTC & ROTS.

Lucas knows what is going on in SW-fandom, and thats why he put out the OOT last year. I always think why he didn't release the '97 versions on DVD to the public? CAUSE NOBODY WAS ASKING FOR THEM!!!

Lucas made this crack about ESB solely because it is the most beloved of the SW films. Although I still say The Original Star Wars is the best, with ESB at 1a.
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Originally posted by:JediRandy
ESB as a stand alone flick.... doesn't work. No beginning, middle or end... it's just the middle.
)


Not to get off topic, but I disagree. I agree it is not a standalone flick, and it has no beginning, no middle and no end, but the movie is so damn good, I can watch it without caring about the rest of the saga. That is what seperates ANH/ESB from the rest, they don't rely on moments that tie the saga together to make them great, they are just well made films that are great on their own.

ROTJ works great at the end cause of the Vader/Emperor/Luke confrontation, the Yoda death sequence, and the ObiWan/Luke talk, and the only reason is because you can enjoy it in the context of the story 4-6 or 1-6 that sort of ties everything together. The same with the PT movies, the best moments are the ones that tie with the OT, and the movies can't rely on their merits of just being a great movie to hold up. I constantly hear PT fans favorite moments of ObiWan/Anakin duel, the building of Vader, Luke/Leia being delivered to their respective planets, and that is solely cause it ties the story you saw from 4-6. I never hear someone say that the Jake Lloyd Tatoine parts are fascinating, because in retrospect they really aren't that compelling, other then they get your from point A to point B to the growth of Darth Vader.

ANH & ESB will always be movies I can pop in without the OT story or the Saga story in mind, and they deliver everytime because they are just great movies.
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Originally posted by: CO
Originally posted by:JediRandy
ESB as a stand alone flick.... doesn't work. No beginning, middle or end... it's just the middle.
)


Not to get off topic, but I disagree. I agree it is not a standalone flick, and it has no beginning, no middle and no end, but the movie is so damn good, I can watch it without caring about the rest of the saga. That is what seperates ANH/ESB from the rest, they don't rely on moments that tie the saga together to make them great, they are just well made films that are great on their own.

ROTJ works great at the end cause of the Vader/Emperor/Luke confrontation, the Yoda death sequence, and the ObiWan/Luke talk, and the only reason is because you can enjoy it in the context of the story 4-6 or 1-6 that sort of ties everything together. The same with the PT movies, the best moments are the ones that tie with the OT, and the movies can't rely on their merits of just being a great movie to hold up. I constantly hear PT fans favorite moments of ObiWan/Anakin duel, the building of Vader, Luke/Leia being delivered to their respective planets, and that is solely cause it ties the story you saw from 4-6. I never hear someone say that the Jake Lloyd Tatoine parts are fascinating, because in retrospect they really aren't that compelling, other then they get your from point A to point B to the growth of Darth Vader.

ANH & ESB will always be movies I can pop in without the OT story or the Saga story in mind, and they deliver everytime because they are just great movies.


But Jedi would never have worked without Empire, for that emotional pay off - and the same goes for Empire.

To be honest, back in 1980 it wasn't Empire that was great, it was waiting to see it that was so much fun...
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Originally posted by: TheCassidy

But Jedi would never have worked without Empire, for that emotional pay off - and the same goes for Empire.

To be honest, back in 1980 it wasn't Empire that was great, it was waiting to see it that was so much fun...


I am not saying one doesn't complement the other, I am just saying that the only reason ROTJ & the PT are good films to a SW fan is because of the moments that tie the movies together, and nothing original in those movies makes you love them.

ESB doesn't have one moment in the movie that is recycled from ANH, it is totally original in its tone, story, character depth. The best moment of the movie 'I am your father!" contradicts everything that was stated in the original movie! ESB's great moments aren't all what has to do with the 'saga' in my view. The asteroid chase and the dialogue through that whole sequence is one of the best moments of the movie, yet it has zero to do with the overall story. The carbon freezing sequence is another great part of the movie, but if you look at the overall story now either 4-6 or 1-6, it doesn't have any 'tie in' moments that you waited to see.

ROTJ & the PT are loaded with them, and that is why SW fans are willing to accept mediocrity for more SW story, including myself when it comes to ROTJ. When Palpatine says to Anakin in TPM, "We'll wait to see how your career progresses...." only works in the context of the saga, and a true SW fan would appreciate that line. ESB has zero of that stuff, it has no little innuendos that only work when you watch the movies in order, and that is cause Lucas was still just trying to make a great movie at that point, and then once ROTJ came and the PT came out, it was more about the overall story and not the greatness of the movies. I am not saying what Lucas did was wrong to try to craft a story that works in segments with each episode, but it is very hard to watch all 6 in a row to really enjoy it, and that is why many here just can't sit down and watch TPM on a Saturday night like they can do with ANH, it just isn't as good a movie.

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I agree with you on a lot of what you're saying, CO, but I disagree about Empire having no beginning, middle, or end. The introduction and the presentation of the conflict between the rebellion and the evil empire are far more subtle than they were in the original Star Wars, but they are still clearly present. After that the main plot to the movie flows as the rebels attempt to evade the evil empire as a simultaneous struggle occurs between the elite, Jedi warriors of each side. The emotional climax of the movie is when Luke realizes he is the son of Vader and as Han is carried off by a bounty hunter. It's dark and the good-guy rebels don't win, but it's a complete story in its own way. It ends with some cliffhanger elements to be sure (the good guys plan to rescue Han, and clearly Luke's struggle will continue), but these cliffhangers were presented in the epilogue and the original Star Wars had the same thing to a degree; the beginning, middle, and end to Empire Strikes Back are not ruined by them.

Anyways, I don't mean to say that Empire is better than the original Star Wars to the degree that it doesn't need it. In fact, on its own, it's definitely not as good as the original film if you ask me. But, it's still an amazing film on its own, and coming from the perspective of the OT saga, I believe it is the best of the bunch.


EDIT: Oh yeah, and about what George said, it's kind of sad that our minds are conditioned to believe he could have seriously meant that. Clearly he was making a joke at a publicist award show, but at the same time he clearly lacks respect for the entire series (in its originally-beloved form) to some degree.

"Now all Lucas has to do is make a cgi version of himself.  It will be better than the original and fit his original vision." - skyjedi2005

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Again, I LOVE ESB.... no complaining here or anything like that....

but, if you were to show that flick to someone who has no idea what SW is... who has never seen the ANH... they'd be completly lost and going "Whaa?" every 2 minutes. Imagine the Wampa cave with no prior knowledge.... how the hell is he making that thing fly into his hand... then who is this ghost? You can go on and on...

"Among many things I have to be thankful for are you, the fans. I know that some of you haven't liked every single thing that I've done with the saga, and that you have a strong sense of ownership over all things Star Wars. But take that passion and devotion and channel it into a creative project of your own."
-George Lucas
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lucas thinking empire is not good does not suprise me.

neither does that his 3d clone wars series will look like a video game or that the live action show will probably fail.

He lost it along time ago, when he first had the idea of doing the special editions and later when jar jar was made a major character in the phantom menace.

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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Originally posted by: JediRandy
Again, I LOVE ESB.... no complaining here or anything like that....

but, if you were to show that flick to someone who has no idea what SW is... who has never seen the ANH... they'd be completly lost and going "Whaa?" every 2 minutes. Imagine the Wampa cave with no prior knowledge.... how the hell is he making that thing fly into his hand... then who is this ghost? You can go on and on...


Yeah, but the same arguably applies for nearly every other movie in the series, except the original Star Wars.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Damn. Kershner was here visiting my school a couple weeks ago and during the Q&A people couldn't stop asking about Empire and being Lucas' instructor at USC. I can't believe Lucas would seriously say it was the worst film. Either he was joking or he has some sort of authority figure/mentor issue.

Originally posted by: JediRandy
Again, I LOVE ESB.... no complaining here or anything like that....

but, if you were to show that flick to someone who has no idea what SW is... who has never seen the ANH... they'd be completly lost and going "Whaa?" every 2 minutes. Imagine the Wampa cave with no prior knowledge.... how the hell is he making that thing fly into his hand... then who is this ghost? You can go on and on...
Then again, you're not going to ask that person which was the worst Star Wars movie if they haven't seen any others. Then again, maybe you will just because the only answer they can give is ESB because it's the only one they know about.

My Projects:
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[X0 Project]
[Backstroke of the West DVD]
[ROTS Theatrical DVD]

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George Lucas has jumped the shark!!!!

I think George was probably joking though.
George Lucas was seduced by the dark side. The OOT ceased to exist in his mind and became the Special Editions...." "They're more maching now than movies. Twisted and evil."
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Originally posted by: JediRandy
Again, I LOVE ESB.... no complaining here or anything like that....

but, if you were to show that flick to someone who has no idea what SW is... who has never seen the ANH... they'd be completly lost and going "Whaa?" every 2 minutes. Imagine the Wampa cave with no prior knowledge.... how the hell is he making that thing fly into his hand... then who is this ghost? You can go on and on...


Yes, but you can say those questions might be a lot of fun for a new viewer. Plus, nobody knew that Jedi could manipulate the position of objects using the force, so even Star Wars fans had some newness by that point. And lastly, as Gaffer pointed out, Episode I presented the same amount of questioning for someone who hadn't seen the original Star Wars first.

"Now all Lucas has to do is make a cgi version of himself.  It will be better than the original and fit his original vision." - skyjedi2005

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Lucas was just being sarcastic. He seems to publicly consider ANH "the worst" from the way he talks about his displeasure and limitations in storytelling technology, although it is also well known that ESB is stylistically disliked by him.