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What is wrong with Return of the Jedi? — Page 11

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Good riddance! Stay in the forest, you floppy-eared freak!

JK
"You fell victim to one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is 'Never get involved in a land war in Asia'."
--Vizzini (Wallace Shawn), The Princess Bride
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Kevin A
Webmaster/Primary Cynic
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JAR JAR BINKS FOR EMPEROR!!!!
"The ability to speak does not make you intelligent."
Qui-Gon Jinn (R.I.P.)
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I'm moving.
"You fell victim to one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is 'Never get involved in a land war in Asia'."
--Vizzini (Wallace Shawn), The Princess Bride
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Kevin A
Webmaster/Primary Cynic
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kapgar.com
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moving where?
"The ability to speak does not make you intelligent."
Qui-Gon Jinn (R.I.P.)
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To where ever Jar Jar's emperorship does not extend.
"You fell victim to one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is 'Never get involved in a land war in Asia'."
--Vizzini (Wallace Shawn), The Princess Bride
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Kevin A
Webmaster/Primary Cynic
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it is OMNIPRESENT!!!
"The ability to speak does not make you intelligent."
Qui-Gon Jinn (R.I.P.)
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Shoot me now.
"You fell victim to one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is 'Never get involved in a land war in Asia'."
--Vizzini (Wallace Shawn), The Princess Bride
-------------------------
Kevin A
Webmaster/Primary Cynic
kapgar.typepad.com
kapgar.com
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no!
"The ability to speak does not make you intelligent."
Qui-Gon Jinn (R.I.P.)
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LOL. Maybe you could move to Earth. We might have invented the wheel by this time.

4

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i think the Earth is still a ball of rock hurtling through space, with volcanic eruptions and global thunderstorms at this moment
"The ability to speak does not make you intelligent."
Qui-Gon Jinn (R.I.P.)
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Earth is a computer, created only to find out the question for the following answer: 42.
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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The Death Star Blows up on the First Day.

And God said, "Let there be LIGHT."

And there was light. Very bright light.

4

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green light?
"The ability to speak does not make you intelligent."
Qui-Gon Jinn (R.I.P.)
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Originally posted by: ricarleite
Earth is a computer, created only to find out the question for the following answer: 42.
*lol* OMG!! I totally HATE "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy"!


Anyway, where were we? Oh, right: RotJ

I finally received my "back-up copies" of the OT trilogy and watched them in one session (for the first time in English, btw! ... Vader sounds scarier in the German version of ANH, because his dubbing voice is darker .... and C3-PO's lines are a bit funnier, more tongue in cheek ... anyway ).


And I have to admit, like many years ago, I realized that I actually still falter whether I prefer ESB or RotJ.


So, to get back on topic:

What I love about "Return of the Jedi":

* Jabba's palace and the desert -- you really get a feel for this place, plus nice action! (I want to go there on vacation )
* Leia posing as bounty hunter -- verrrry cool!
* The scenes where Luke confronts Vader -- very powerful! (emotionally AND action-wise)
* Vader saving his son's life -- wow, I cry everytime!
* Han and his troops sneaking around Endor -- love the cinematography! (beautiful mysterious forest, many obstacles, possible danger hiding everywhere)
* The rebels attacking the new Death Star -- sooo exciting! (will Han lower the shield in time? will Lando and his attack forces manage to destroy the damn thing and to escape before it bursts into pieces?)
* The Ewok village -- again, gorgeous picture, cozy place, yet you can smell the danger of this wild planet
* ...and even the battle of the Ewoks/rebels vs. the Empirial forces -- humorous, yet well choreographed!
* The Leia/Han/Luke trianlge -- a highlight from the very beginning *g*


As for the Empirial forces on Endor and in its orbit:

The question has been raised as to why they could be defeated so "easily"? Well, it's rather obvious, if you ask me.

First of all, I had the impression that not all of the Emperial forces were stationed on Endor, because from their point of view there was no necessity to! They were wayyyyy too self-assured, way too convinced that those pityful rebels don't stand a chance against them, that their attack would be only one of foolish despair, not one that would grant them victory over the entire Empire!

So, their defences weren't high. They had their Death Star, what else did they need? (again, from their POV)

They were all game, you know, "Let's show that pathetic band of rebels that this is our playground .... send them back to kindergarten."

And in underestimating the rebels' chances, they fell to their hands.

Somehow, this is quite poetic, like a Roman legend or Greek myth from ancient Earth.

*sighs*

I love RotJ .... say you what you will.

Doc
Taylor: Oh H, whatever happened to the way of the warrior??
Harold: The way of the warrior doesn't stand a chance against the way of the wife.
('K2', 1991)
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Originally posted by: DocCovington
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Originally posted by: ricarleite
Earth is a computer, created only to find out the question for the following answer: 42.
*lol* OMG!! I totally HATE "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy"!


Whyyyyyy?

And... now that I think about it... you guys were right... they underestimated the rebels so much... I mean, it wasn't that hard to blow up the Death Star a second time... Let me stop thinking about it, or else I'll start to hate ROTJ, and this CANNOT happen.
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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Originally posted by: ricarleite
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Originally posted by: DocCovington
*lol* OMG!! I totally HATE "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy"!


Whyyyyyy?
Because it's too silly for my taste. *shrugs*

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Originally posted by: ricarleiteAnd... now that I think about it... you guys were right... they underestimated the rebels so much... I mean, it wasn't that hard to blow up the Death Star a second time... Let me stop thinking about it, or else I'll start to hate ROTJ, and this CANNOT happen.
Huh? I don't quite understand. I actually think it's pretty COOL that they underestimated the rebel alliance. It's a classical mistake made by evil. Like in a classic play (see my previous comparison to ancient mythology, etc.).

That's a PLUS, not a flaw!! It makes SW classy and places it in the ranks of legendary art (hence the term "SciFi opera" ).

Doc
Taylor: Oh H, whatever happened to the way of the warrior??
Harold: The way of the warrior doesn't stand a chance against the way of the wife.
('K2', 1991)
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doc, i agree with everyone of your points about ROTJ! it is an awesome movie!
"The ability to speak does not make you intelligent."
Qui-Gon Jinn (R.I.P.)
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*thumbs up*

Doc
Taylor: Oh H, whatever happened to the way of the warrior??
Harold: The way of the warrior doesn't stand a chance against the way of the wife.
('K2', 1991)
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Originally posted by: DocCovington


*thumbs up*

Doc

For a thumbs up smiley, Shimraa created...

bd
"You fell victim to one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is 'Never get involved in a land war in Asia'."
--Vizzini (Wallace Shawn), The Princess Bride
-------------------------
Kevin A
Webmaster/Primary Cynic
kapgar.typepad.com
kapgar.com
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Originally posted by: jimbo
Reasons Return of the Jedi is the worst Star Wars movie

1. The Empire couldn't think of anything better then building another death star after how easily the last was destroyed.


Yet the last one very nearly worked, too. There's no reason not to try again when it nearly worked the first time.

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2. Boba went out with a burp instead of a bang


Yes, the death of a bit character who just happened to become a fan favorite is SUCH a major contributing factor.

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3. While Return of the Jedis Vader vs Luke battle wasn't bad the one in The Empire Strikes Back was far superior


True... so?

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4. The word "destiny" is used way to many times

5. A New Hope, The Empire Strikes Back, and Attack of the Clones show clones as very efficient warriors but here they couldn't kill more then a few ewoks.


I will never believe the stormtroopers are clones. That was not the original intent, obviously.

Other than that... I dunno, the Stormtroopers are supposed to be these highly-trained death-dealers, but Luke, Leia, Han, Chewie, etc. seem to survive ARMIES of them at a time.

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6. Ending is way too happy. They should have killed off more characters.


This is Star Wars, not Todd McFarlane's Spawn.

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7. The ewoks were annoying as hell. They looked like a bunch teddy bears. I dislike them more then Jar Jar.


Insecure about your maturity are we? I personally liked seeing an alien species in Star Wars that didn't look like it came off a KISS album.

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8. Why did the Empire surrender after the death star was destroyed. They still had more then enough fire power to wipe out the last of the rebals


Because THEY HAD NO LEADER, thus no direction, no purpose, nothing left to fight for. To continue fighting would be nothing more than refusal to admit defeat, and totally pointless in the long run.

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9. Return of the Jedi had alot more responsiblity ending the series then The Phantom Menace did beginning it.


Umm... so?

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10. Two logs coming together would not destroy a modern tank much less a futuristic walker.

11. Did I mention the ewoks? Thought so


Whatever.

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Originally posted by: JamesEightBitStar
I personally liked seeing an alien species in Star Wars that didn't look like it came off a KISS album.

I never really thought of it this way, but this certainly could be used as an explanation for much of the Star Trek universe, couldn't it?
"You fell victim to one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is 'Never get involved in a land war in Asia'."
--Vizzini (Wallace Shawn), The Princess Bride
-------------------------
Kevin A
Webmaster/Primary Cynic
kapgar.typepad.com
kapgar.com
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I think he was referring to the silly look of Darth Maul ("Maul", by the way, means "animal mouth" in German *lol*).

As a Star Trek fan, I can reassure you that none of the Trek aliens look that pathetic.

Doc
Taylor: Oh H, whatever happened to the way of the warrior??
Harold: The way of the warrior doesn't stand a chance against the way of the wife.
('K2', 1991)
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Apart from the fuckers with big ears and bad teeth...and the Blue one.........and the one with the funny nose.........and.......




Joke BTW


I also agree with you about 'Jedi', there are so many good moments in that film, my fave being the Luke and Leia scene!

http://www.facebook.com/DirtyWookie

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I was thinking about why the Empire would build a second Death Star when the first one failed, after someone brought up that question a while ago. Here is my theory...

They did it to trap the rebels. They knew if they built a second Death Star the rebels would come and try and destroy it, giving the Empire the chance it wanted to wipe out the Rebellion once and for all. Think about it...the rebels knew the devestating capabilities of the original Death Star, so the prospect of a second basically leaves them no choice but to try and take it out. Plus, if the Empire were to build something new, the rebels would have no idea of it's capabilities and would not be afraid of it, and thus would not rush to destory it. The point of building a second Death Star was basically just bait to lead the whole of the Rebellion into the well laid trap of the Emperor. And it almost worked...however, they weren't counting on the rebels being aided by hundreds of little furry jungle fighters.

And to add my 2 cents about some of the other ROTJ "flaws"...

1. Stormtroopers being "elite" but being defeated by Ewoks?
When were they elite? They ran in fear of Han Solo in ANH, why?? He just ran screaming at them and they fled! And about them being clones? If that where really true in the original concept of the Star Wars universe then how is it possible for the Emperor to have an "entire legion of his best troops"? If they're all clones, then there's no such thing as "best troops"! Just another example of Lucas trying to cover his ass.

2. Empire underestimaing the Rebellion.
That's obvious. "Your overconfidence is your weakness" "Your faith in your friends is yours!" Luke (and even the Emperor) knew that the Emperor was over confident. (well the Emperor thought he was very confident, but not over confiedent). He even refers to the rebels on the Sanctuary Moon as being a "pitiful little band". How was he to know that with the aid of the Ewoks (who I have always liked, I might add) that they would be become a formidable force?

3. The Empire surrenduring after the Death Star is destroyed.
The Death Star wasn't the only thing destroyed. Star Destroyers, TIE fighters, "an entire legion of the Emperor's best troops", plus the Empire's flag ship, the Super Star Destroyer. Not to mention the death of every major officer in the army (who were either on the Super Star Destroyer, Death Star or one of the many Star Destroyers), PLUS the death of the Darth Vader, second in command of the Empire, PLUS the EMPEROR, the figurehead and dictator of the Empire itself! I'd say they took a pretty big blow, wouldn't you say? One they wouldn't be able to recover from, you think? Plus, the Rebellion had some pretty strong support. That's why they had the best fighter ships in the galaxy being made exclusively for them (the X-wings and A-wings). Once the bulk of the Imperial army was wiped out, it wouldn't have taken much to overthrow the Empire.

I've always found it very difficult to say which is better of the 3. Ever since I was a kid, I've liked ROTJ the best, but that's only because of the speederbikes. I LOVED those bikes. Now that I'm older, I think I can honestly say it's a tie between all 3. I like each for differant reasons. Honestly. I don't think any of the 3 is "weaker" or "stronger" than the other. Each has strong and weak points, to be sure, but that doesn't make one better than the other. ANH was the intoduction that blew all our minds. ESB was emotionally heavy. ROTJ was big on action. They're all amazing, in my opinion.

Don't listen to Jimbo. He's like, 16 and doesn't know what he's talking about. He also thinks that Attack of the Clones is "by far" the best Star Wars movie... *rolls eyes*

And in response to something someone said above earlier...
Although I've never cried when Vader saves Luke (it is a powerful scene tho), I have cried when that one Ewok dies from the laser blast and the other tries to wake him up. (Come on! Haven't we all?? It's SO sad! The poor little guy!)
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yes bossk. the problem with the ST universe is that all the aliens look very much alike.
"The ability to speak does not make you intelligent."
Qui-Gon Jinn (R.I.P.)