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What is wrong with Return of the Jedi?

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I constantly here RotJ described as a "weak" movie on these boards, but I have never understood why it was so hated. It used to be my favorite. Of couse now that I am... older... I have seen the light and realized ESB is the best.


And my scores for the Movies:

ESB: 9.3
ANH: 9.0
RotJ: 8.9
AotC: 8.5
TMP: 8.1

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I am not sure why some people don't like Return of the Jedi. That is my favorite one, the old Return of the Jedi. It could be because that was the first one I saw and I saw it like 11 or so times in the Theator when I was 6 years old and new it kinda well for a 6 year old before I saw Empire and a New Hope. Could be I just like it the best. Or both or whatever. But it is my favorite. I like it better with the old song in Jabba's place and the old Ewok song at the end. But maybe it's just because I am used to that version
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the only thing that is wrong with ROTJ is that there are not enough ewoks.
"The ability to speak does not make you intelligent."
Qui-Gon Jinn (R.I.P.)
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i saw the trilogy in order and at first it ROTJ was my favourite too. but after a while i found that the ending was too cheesy. most of the fault goes with the ewoks but also the "all's well that ends well" thing largely contributes to it, even if i have to admit that i cannot imagine it to be otherwise now, i wouldn't like SW that much if one of the main characters had died at the end. btw ESB rules!!
"Last night, Darth Vader came down from planet Vulcan and told me that if I didn't take Lorraine out that he'd melt my brain."
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Ewoks playing drums with imperial helmets. And... that's about it, it's perfect as it is. Love that movie.
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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Reasons Return of the Jedi is the worst Star Wars movie

1. The Empire couldn't think of anything better then building another death star after how easily the last was destroyed.

2. Boba went out with a burp instead of a bang

3. While Return of the Jedis Vader vs Luke battle wasn't bad the one in The Empire Strikes Back was far superior

4. The word "destiny" is used way to many times

5. A New Hope, The Empire Strikes Back, and Attack of the Clones show clones as very efficient warriors but here they couldn't kill more then a few ewoks.

6. Ending is way too happy. They should have killed off more characters.

7. The ewoks were annoying as hell. They looked like a bunch teddy bears. I dislike them more then Jar Jar.

8. Why did the Empire surrender after the death star was destroyed. They still had more then enough fire power to wipe out the last of the rebals

9. Return of the Jedi had alot more responsiblity ending the series then The Phantom Menace did beginning it.

10. Two logs coming together would not destroy a modern tank much less a futuristic walker.

11. Did I mention the ewoks? Thought so
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Originally posted by: jimbo
Reasons Return of the Jedi is the worst Star Wars movie

1. The Empire couldn't think of anything better then building another death star after how easily the last was destroyed.

2. Boba went out with a burp instead of a bang

3. While Return of the Jedis Vader vs Luke battle wasn't bad the one in The Empire Strikes Back was far superior

4. The word "destiny" is used way to many times

5. A New Hope, The Empire Strikes Back, and Attack of the Clones show clones as very efficient warriors but here they couldn't kill more then a few ewoks.

6. Ending is way too happy. They should have killed off a characters.

7. The ewoks were annoying as hell. They looked like a bunch teddy bears. I dislike them more then Jar Jar.

8. Why did the Empire surrender after the death star was destroyed. They still had more then enough fire power to wipe out the last of the rebals

9. Return of the Jedi had alot more responsiblity ending the series then The Phantom Menace did beginning it.

10. Two logs coming together would not destroy a modern tank much less a futuristic walker.

11. Did I mention the ewoks? Thought so



1- If at first you don't succeed...
2- Yeah, sort of. He should have died with his head cut off.
3- They were kinda tired.
4- You can't say "destiny" too much. It's a great word. I use it all the time.
5- Those were the BEST Ewoks ever born, and those were the worse stormtrooper army ever.
6- Palpatine's death made me cry. Oh and Vader died too.
7- Really? You do? Well, look at Yoda's first scenes ("mine, mine, mine!")
8- Basically, they were sick of it. Palpatine was dead, no more death star. "Oh what the hell, we can never win, let's just go home."
9- I'm not sure, but people back then expected the series to continue, right? Althought the original "Revenge of the Jedi" trailler saying it was the final episode.
10- Those were very heavy Endor moon logs.
11- No, you didn't.

“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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I'm right there with Ricarleite. All the arguments are valid answers against any criticism toward RotJ.

I love it, too (the original version, that is ), and will always do. And the ending was just the right mix of sadness (Vader/Luke) and happiness (the heroes' celebration).

BTW, *lol* @ Ricarleite ... love your humor.

Doc
Taylor: Oh H, whatever happened to the way of the warrior??
Harold: The way of the warrior doesn't stand a chance against the way of the wife.
('K2', 1991)
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Jimbo: Agree with some of what you say. However:

7: JarJar was MUCH more annoying than the Ewoks. In fact, nothing in this galaxy, or any other galaxy, far, far away or not, could be more annoying than JarJar. Meesa soooo sorry iffa youa don'ta likea meesa now...

8: The Empire didn't surrender. There isn't anything to suggest that they did. You see the Death Star explode, and then the celebrations on Endor. Of course the Rebels are going to celebrate the death of the Emperor and the destruction of the Death Star (They did in "A new Hope" aswell)

Not sure if I agree that ROTJ is the weakest of the three. I love the Emperors character, he is such a great baddie. Do agree that ESB is the best though. If we are including the prequels, then TPM is by far the worst. There were so many things wrong with that movie I wouldn't know where to begin.
-Everyone is entitled to my opinion-
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Attack of the Clones - A+
A New Hope - A
The Empire Strikes Back - A
The Phantom Menace - B
Return of the Jedi - B-

Return of the Jedi is not a bad movie. In fact it is a pretty good one. It just is low on Star Wars stadus. Plus if the empire didn't surrender then why did the trilogy end. We have hundreds of Star Destroyers that just appear to vanish. The Empire in The Empire Strikes Back was a huge threat to the rebellion. Here the Empire looses against vastly inferior enemys. It is just such a lackluster ending. A New Hope and The Empire Strikes Back were done so well why couldn't Return of the Jedi have just been done the same way.
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The Empire didn't surrender. The EU deals with the rest of the crap that happened after RotJ. But the death of Palpatine and Vader was a devastating blow to the Empire. And if you want to get technical, the trilogy ended after RotJ because a trilogy can't have four movies.

About the Ewoks... I find them sort of annoying... but they are fighters. They carry spears and hunt prey.

Also, the clones have had their age accelerated, so the Storm Troopers on Endor may have "old" worn-out bodies. Just a thought.
And Boba Fett doesn't die... he escapes the Sarlaac pit. I don't like his sissyfied scream, though.

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Well you have to end the trilogy somehow. If you think about it, there isn't really going to be a single battle where the rebellions wipes out every last remnant of the Imperial forces.... so killing the Emperor, and destroying several of the Star Destroyers in the process is the next best thing. In one of Timothy Zhan's novels, he suggests that the Emperors will kept the troops organized, he used his mind to control thier movements; so once he was killed, the Imperial troops would have been in disarray, and those that weren't killed or captured would flee in panic...

How does that sound? :-)

Oh, and to answer your question DC: "Why do the Sith insist on giving everyone the name Darth?"

"Because it sounds cool..."
-Everyone is entitled to my opinion-
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Why didn't the all those Star Destroyers simply wipe out the last of the rebals? I don't want an answer like because the movie needed to end. A logical reason of how the rebals survived that battle or much less won it. There were far more imperial forces then rebals at that battle. Plus you say it didn't end at Return of the Jedi. Then Return of the Jedi should not have been the last movie. Return of the Jedi should have ended it all in a way that would satisfy people over 10. Something Return of the Jedi failed at miserably.
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my own real beef with ROTJ is Luke's sister being Leia.
And I dance. And I sing.
And I'm a monkey, in a long line of kings.
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whats wrong with ROTJ? the wrong song at the end, and not enough vader/palpatine/luke screen time... awesome scenes, so dark!
"The ability to speak does not make you intelligent."
Qui-Gon Jinn (R.I.P.)
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Tsk, I don't think there is ANYTHING "wrong" with RotJ. It's a great movie!

I'd rather know what's wrong with George Lucas for not releasing the original theatrical cuts of ep. IV-VI ?! *lol*

Jokes aside, how can any Star Wars fan consider RotJ worse than AotC or even TPM? That is beyond me, because those two were quite disappointing, forced and without substance. Okay, the first half of AotC was really good and promising (I was so excited while watching it on the big screen, expecting it to be all I had hoped for...), but than everything went downhill.

Well, that's my opinion.

And here my rankings:

1. TESB
2. ANH
3. RotJ
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.
[insert huge gap]
.
.
9. AotC
10. TPM



Doc
Taylor: Oh H, whatever happened to the way of the warrior??
Harold: The way of the warrior doesn't stand a chance against the way of the wife.
('K2', 1991)
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Attack of the Clones is a masterpeice. Only a child can like Return of the Jedi more. Return of the Jedi was more a kids movie then any of the Star Wars movies. Attack of the Clones was so well done. I can't pinpoint anything about it that I don't like. Integration of action and story was done in a way few movies can match. Natalie Portman nuff said. The most exciting war sequence ever. Attack of the Clones has no equal or better. As for The Phantom Menace it has a lot of kiddy aspects, too much Jar Jar screen time, and too little Darth Maul screen time but a lot of things were done right. It had some great action, effects, and it set up the saga and the coming threat in a good way. The main reason I like The Phantom Menace more then Return of the Jedi is that Return of the Jedi is the last of the series. It has a lot more responsiblity ending the series then The Phantom Menace does beginning it. This makes Return of the Jedis numerour flaws less forgivable.
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Originally posted by: jimbo
Attack of the Clones is a masterpeice.
I don't need to repeat myself ... it's obvious we disagree.

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Only a child can like Return of the Jedi more.
*L* Really? Hmm, I'm almost 29. There goes your point (bye bye!).

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Return of the Jedi was more a kids movie then any of the Star Wars movies.
You must have fallen asleep during TPM then (I know I did ... twice).

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Attack of the Clones was so well done. I can't pinpoint anything about it that I don't like.
Good for you. I can.

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Integration of action and story was done in a way few movies can match.
Pfffft... the romance between Padme and Anakin came totally out of the blue, as did most of the other storylines. The plot seemed pushed, not as if it developed "naturally", so to speak. Only the Obi-Wan scenes were truly worth watching, IMO.

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Natalie Portman nuff said.
Sorry, but I don't think she's got any charisma (she's a good actress, but she's not hot, just pretty). By the way, now I get a mental image of Jack Osborne stalking Natalie at the Grammys .... ewww.

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The most exciting war sequence ever.
What??? That was the lamest about the whole movie! I almost napped off!!

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Attack of the Clones has no equal or better.
I guess good thing for us that you don't produce movies.

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[...] It has a lot more responsiblity ending the series then The Phantom Menace does beginning it. This makes Return of the Jedis numerour flaws less forgivable.
What you consider flaws, I consider history. There you go. You just can't convince me, sorry. So no need to argue this over again and again.

Doc
Taylor: Oh H, whatever happened to the way of the warrior??
Harold: The way of the warrior doesn't stand a chance against the way of the wife.
('K2', 1991)
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I belive it's kinda pointless to argue about what film is better, not because it's impossible to tell, but because opinions are just like watches and clocks. Everyone has its own, and we all belive our own watch is correct, but none are, some are a littlbe bit early, others a little bit late.

Ah, but Revenge of the Jedi (I prefer the "original" title) is better than AOTC. My watch, I mean, my opinion.
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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Heh heh, how true.
Taylor: Oh H, whatever happened to the way of the warrior??
Harold: The way of the warrior doesn't stand a chance against the way of the wife.
('K2', 1991)
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"Why didn't the all those Star Destroyers simply wipe out the last of the rebals? I don't want an answer like because the movie needed to end. A logical reason of how the rebals survived that battle or much less won it."

That's what I just gave you. Because the Emperor's influence was what held the Imperial forces together. They relied on his influence to strengthen their minds and, to some degree, control their will and tell them what to do. With his death their minds were suddenly released and they were confused and lost. So they would have panicked and fled. This is just a theory but it still answers that question, so why are you asking it again? Don't ask if you aren't going to bother reading the response.
-Everyone is entitled to my opinion-
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What you consider flaws, I consider history.


history is full of flaws...

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Ah, but Revenge of the Jedi (I prefer the "original" title) is better than AOTC.


what? no way could that title have survived if you look at what the film is about. yes the title is cool, but considering the plotline of the film, it cannot stay...
"The ability to speak does not make you intelligent."
Qui-Gon Jinn (R.I.P.)
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DocCovington first of all Natalie Portman is insanely sexy. She beyond belief gorgous. Not just pretty. Beautiful. I dream of her all the time. The action bored you. You must have no addrenaline. It had everything a Star Wars action sequence can have. Clones, droids, tanks, spaceships, jedi, monsters, sith, lasers, lightsabers, and a hottie fighting at once. Its a stratagy of throwing everything at the audience that worked so well. Attack of the Clones borrows elements from Shackspeare, fall of Rome, and a little Tolkein. It weaves them together in a way that works so well. It had the same well done story and dark feel that I loved about The Empire Strikes Back but adds a level of excitement and technical marvel that beats it all. Attack of the Clones is the best of the best.
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I dream of her all the time.


i wouldnt go as far as taht, but yes, she is fucking lovely and beautiful.
"The ability to speak does not make you intelligent."
Qui-Gon Jinn (R.I.P.)
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Originally posted by: motti_soL

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Ah, but Revenge of the Jedi (I prefer the "original" title) is better than AOTC.

what? no way could that title have survived if you look at what the film is about. yes the title is cool, but considering the plotline of the film, it cannot stay...


Ther's that story about how the name was leaked earlier to spot false merchandising, and GL saying that he changed it because "revenge is not something a jedi would do", but what the heck, I like that title, "Revenge of the Jedi", sounds a lot better than "return of the jedi", oh ok he returned yipee. But no, he had... a Revenge! Revenge is a dish best served cold!

And jimbo, I'm glad you enjoyed AOTC, I really am. I didn't like the prequels so much, but if there are true SW fans who really enjoyed it and say it's better than any other movies from the original trilogy, than it was worth it. I mean, it wasn't in vain, it's really part of SW now. And who knows, with time I'll learne to like this new trilogy too.
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering