What is wrong with... Attack of the Clones? - a general discussion thread — Page 10

IKnowWhatYouDidLastSummer said:
So you are a SJW…why am I not surprised.

You’re on the wrong website. Here you go.

Lord Haseo said:

IKnowWhatYouDidLastSummer said:
So you are a SJW…why am I not surprised.

You’re on the wrong website.

The moderators have told him so by banning him three times already, so you are correct.

IKnowWhatYouDidLastSummer said:

when they willfully ignore the racist tinge of TPM, I’m going to mock it. When someone comes here and asks for an invite without any intention of sticking around or contributing in any way, I’m going to mock it. When someone has the opinion that Rey is a shitty character and (more importantly) if you think otherwise you are just thinking with your dick, I’m going to call it out as bullshit. When someone makes fun of Down syndrome AND accuses me of making up my FUCKING DEAD DAUGHTER, I’m going to call them an asshole and do my damned best to get them banned. When that person keeps coming back with new accounts, I’m gonna do my best to get him banned again and again. When someone calls Rey a loathsome mysogynist term like a “Mary Sue” I’m going to call them out for being mysogynist.

So you are a SJW…why am I not surprised.

imperialscum said:

TV’s Frink said:
When someone comes… When someone…

That is a nice list. Though you forgot many of the crucial ones like “when someone comes for help you act disrespectfully toward them and/or post off-topic stuff in their threads”.

I help plenty of people here, I just have no respect for anyone who is lazy or is a hit-and-runner.

I look forward to additional contributions to my list.

Every opinion should be valid. We don’t have to agree with it. A great many find the PT to be unwatchable trash. I don’t agree, but I’m not going to force them to sit through it. I see the point in wishing those three films had never been made as it changed Star Wars fandom. The old guard sees them as inferior and so does most everyone else.

When I look at a movie, book, or any story, I rate it first and foremost by the quality of the overall story. Quite a few badly made movies have a great story to them. The PT suffer from GL not getting any outside input. For the OT, he was a struggling entrepreneur. For the PT he was at the height of his success. For the OT, he didn’t have the time or energy to do the screenplay or direct TESB or ROTJ so he hired others to take his ideas and flesh them out. For SW/ANH, he had a lot of input from friends, many of whom are highly successful in the movie business. I haven’t heard of any help he had with any of the PT scripts. Nothing. No outside input. That tends to make bad stories. All writers need some outside help. For the PT, GL wrote, cast, directed, produced, and funded the movies all on his own. The results are the mess we see. A great underlying story and great art direction, with iffy dialog and character development (as some have noted, in one scene you can have moments that are great and moments that aren’t). To many this combination ruins the story. Instead of hating them, I decided to figure out what GL was trying to do and see through the less than perfect parts (such as all the gaffs and continuity errors in the OT) to see how the two trilogies fit together to form a larger story.

As I have said, there are many films out there that are worse than the PT. Avatar for one. That movie sucked. I feel about it like many here feel about the PT. But the PT are Star Wars and I had a vested interest in finding the good in them. They are no where near as good as any of the great SF movies, but they don’t completely suck, if only by virtue that they are part of the Star Wars Saga and fill in some important details that I’d been dying to learn for a quarter of a century.

My dislike and ranking of TFA is based on the overall plot and my general dislike of J.J. Abrams and his work (such as the atrocity that is Star Trek Into Darkness). He is a master of writing characters, but he sucks at telling a coherent and complete story. I am so glad someone more competant is doing VIII and IX. Someone who knows story and characters and dialog.

And I completely forgot to mention that in my experience with online forums (going back more than 20 years) is that you always have people who disagree. You always have people who feel very strongly about things. But you can also have things happen that change the nature of the forum. Usually it involves an apparent gulf between new and old members and how the moderators handle it often dictates if the forum lives or dies (not literally, but in the sense of the forum being what it once was). So far I haven’t see that form of descent here and we have some top notch moderators. I think I would categorize fans by when the found Star Wars. Was it the originals in the theater? On home video? The Special Editions? The Prequels? Or now the Sequels? That is going to color a lot of their opinions and you really can’t change them. That is why I think acknowledging that everyone’s opinion (especially about Star Wars around here) is valid. Yes, this is originaltrilogy.com which should give anyone who comes here a clear indication of what this site is about, but someone can love the PT, even consider one or more of them their favorite of the Saga, and still want to see the original unaltered trilogy.

yotsuya said:

My dislike and ranking of TFA is based on the overall plot and my general dislike of J.J. Abrams and his work (such as the atrocity that is Star Trek Into Darkness). He is a master of writing characters, but he sucks at telling a coherent and complete story. I am so glad someone more competant is doing VIII and IX. Someone who knows story and characters and dialog.

Funny you bring that up, because my two daughters had to ask a million questions watching the PT. They had no such trouble with TFA.

yotsuya said:

And I completely forgot to mention that in my experience with online forums (going back more than 20 years) is that you always have people who disagree. You always have people who feel very strongly about things. But you can also have things happen that change the nature of the forum. Usually it involves an apparent gulf between new and old members and how the moderators handle it often dictates if the forum lives or dies (not literally, but in the sense of the forum being what it once was). So far I haven’t see that form of descent here and we have some top notch moderators. I think I would categorize fans by when the found Star Wars. Was it the originals in the theater? On home video? The Special Editions? The Prequels? Or now the Sequels? That is going to color a lot of their opinions and you really can’t change them. That is why I think acknowledging that everyone’s opinion (especially about Star Wars around here) is valid. Yes, this is originaltrilogy.com which should give anyone who comes here a clear indication of what this site is about, but someone can love the PT, even consider one or more of them their favorite of the Saga, and still want to see the original unaltered trilogy.

Feel free to love the PT all you want. But if you think they’re well made movies, you’re objectively wrong.

Furthermore, this idea that you love the PT based on when you saw it is a crutch. There are plenty of people here who grew up with the PT and still understand they’re bad movies.

Hal 9000 said:

I don’t disagree with you, Frink, about any of the specific instances of clear trolling you cite.

Well, since I’m kinda mentioned in Frink’s list, I just want to remind that I have provided clear arguments against Rey as a character. The trolling part (which at first wasn’t meant to be aggressive, just “being sarcastic”) was just to make fun of a few guys who were ridiculously over sensitive about a “female lead” being criticized.

[So I guess when you criticize a character who happens to be a female you become a misogynist right away. I’m lucky Rey isn’t gay, black and jewish, otherwise I would also be homophobic, racist and antisemite (note that I criticized Finn’s character as well and I think a romantic story between him and Poe in Ep VIII would be totally off topic in a SW movie so I might be racist and homophobic after all. I’m lucky there are no jewish people in SW… except for Watto… oh…no… ok, now I’m also antisemite I guess…)].

I was nevertheless wrong according to internet anglo-saxon rules to act as such (on french forums people don’t get offended so easily and don’t usually talk about their private life), but I have never received any “warning” private message by any moderator as far as I remember.

Hal 9000 said:
I think there’s something to be said for the opinion that the prequels feel more legitimate than TFA because they sprung from the mind of Lucas. I don’t hold it, but I think there’s something to discuss there without shutting them down.

On one hand the PT backstory is very close to what Lucas had in mind when he developed ROTJ, and who is more legitimate than the original author ? A few things have changed (the Clone Wars were to finish long before the dawn of the Empire; Luke’s mother was supposed to die when Leia was 2 yo; the Lars were not related at all with Anakin; Anakin would become half-machine a few months after joining the dark side and not the following day; etc.), but overall the PT tells the story it was supposed to tell. On the other hand, the ST is also close to a few ideas Lucas and Kurtz had when they discussed it during TESB post-production (Luke becoming an hermit - and eventually joining the dark side -; Luke’s sister being some kind of a scavenger on a desert planet; the Emperor - here now Snoke - as the ultimate vilain to be faced in Ep IX last act), and Kasdan was a key element of TESB/ROTJ. Personally I prefer to watch a movie made by an author/creator than something decided by a huge company shareholders, and the PT is the work of a creator (a lazy creator with controversial ideas, but a creator nonetheless) whereas TFA is not. I’m however being a little bit hypocritical because I now only watch fan edits of them… fan edits that use GL material anyway.

That’s being said, I still think as a movie TFA to be way better than AOTC (not sure about TPM and ROTS), but one was a daring and fascinating (and eventually barely watchable) experimental and independent (yeah) piece of art (yeah again) while the other is “just” a common but nicely done blockbuster. By the way I would be highly interested to know what Gary Kurtz thinks of TFA (and of the entire PT; I only know his thoughts about TPM).

I never said that I didn’t want new people here, nor people who like the prequels. My post was about the BAHAVIOR of some people lately.

And now we have somebody using the term “SJW” as an insult. I almost want to cry. What the hell happened?

I can’t explain it any better than I did in my original post. The old trolls used to be quaintly neurotic in their own unique way, the “arguments” were usually about something nice and dorky, were resolved quickly, and contained to one thread.

I’ll end it at that, but want to reiterate that this has nothing to do with liking the prequels (I can say a lot of nice things about RotS. It IS almost competent in parts. Almost.)

And Frink, I don’t remember what the beginning and end of the picnic scene was, but I think the beginning was the part where Hayden rides a space cow, which was not good, in my opinion.

I’ll end with something positive about AotC: the one thing in the movie I enjoyed was the shot of Anakin getting on his swoop bike to go recue his mom. That’s a nice shot.

Have a good day, everybody.

imperialscum said:

TV’s Frink said:

Funny you bring that up, because my two daughters had to ask a million questions watching the PT. They had no such trouble with TFA.

Asking questions might not be percieved as a bad thing. Usually it can mean someone is interested. While having no questions can simply mean the thing is uninteresting. I remember when I watched OT for the first time I would want as much additional information as possible.

If I draw a paralel with my work, at conferences, the most questions are asked after the most interesting talks. Boring talks usually don’t get any questions.

Your point is irrelevant here. They asked questions because they were confused, not becaused they were engaged. And at this very moment they’re watching TFA for the third time in three days, at their insistence.

imperialscum said:

…

^THIS

eiyosus said:

And Frink, I don’t remember what the beginning and end of the picnic scene was, but I think the beginning was the part where Hayden rides a space cow, which was not good, in my opinion.

That was the second half, the part I called garbage.

Bingowings said:

imperialscum said:

…

^THIS

I can’t tell if you are agreeing with him, but if so, see my follow-up directly above your post.

MalàStrana said:

Hal 9000 said:

I don’t disagree with you, Frink, about any of the specific instances of clear trolling you cite.

Well, since I’m kinda mentioned in Frink’s list, I just want to remind that I have provided clear arguments against Rey as a character.

And like all of your misguided beliefs regarding TFA others and I refuted your “arguments”. In response you went on a temper tantrum simply because people disagreed with you and then made two antagonistic signatures. Then you proceeded with the forum equivalent of “IT’S A PRANK BRO”

I will however give you credit seeing as how you haven’t done anything of the like in a while.

I disagree strongly with both of you, but I’m also sick of arguing my points, and furthermore I’ve wasted far too much of my weekend on this. Enjoy your opinions.