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What is everyone’s view on the “prophecy?”

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Hello,

I’m a new member and I wanted to see what the esteemed group feels about my take on the whole prophecy idea. Before I begin, please excuse me if this has been discussed a thousand times. I’ve searched for prophecy and didn’t find anything. If it has been discussed, I would appreciate a pointer. Anyway, I think the point of all 6 movies is that Annikan *had* to go through the entire cycle in order to fulfill the prophecy. We saw in Ep3 that Yoda was unable to kill the Sith. And, I believe it was stated that Yoda was the most powerful Jedi. So, there was no way Annikan could have killed the Sith unless he had learned the ways of the Dark Side. Finally, it was only the love for his son, that allowed him to break the hold the dark side had on him (thus, he had to have children). So, basically, the whole saga had to take place for Annikan to fulfill the prophecy and bring the force back into balance. The implication is the metachlorines figured this out and impregnated Annikan’s mother to fix the mess the Sith had created.

What do you think?
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I don't have any problems with Lucas' explanation of the Prophecy.

"And, I believe it was stated that Yoda was the most powerful Jedi."

He does call himself powerful, but not the most powerful. He did have the highest midi count until Anakin came along.
MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
JediRandy: They're certainly beyond any repair you're capable of making.


MeBeJedi: You aren't one of us.
Go-Mer-Tonic: I can't say I find that very disappointing.


JediRandy: I won't suck as much as a fan edit.
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Let me be the first to say "Welcome".

My theory, as stated elsewhere on these boards, is that Anakin was created by the Sith for the Sith through the force.
¤ The Dark One In Costume ¤

...at last we shall have revenge...
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the profecy might refer to this creation though. its a funny idea thou the choosen one was supposed to bring balance to the force. balance is the key word, if one is all light they are not balanced, same goes if they are all dark. i think anakin had to go through both inorder to truely bring balance. if you read on in the EU u find that the most powerful jedi use both good and bad parts of the force. mace is able to defeat Palps cus he used a technique that draws on the dark side, read the novel and u'll know, same goes for some luke, kyp, jacen, Anakin Solo, and jania. if you read there stories all of them experenced the Darkside and through that became more powerful, through anakin balance was restorted by distroying both the sith and the Jedi, the forcehad become polar opposites b4 him and after him you see the new knights combining the force, it is most evidently seen in NJO series, where jacen has some pretty cool revolations about he force, read Traitor that will fil you in.
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Welcome to the boards!

- I feel that the "prophecy" was fullfilled as Ani did bring BALANCE to the force

What has ‘theology’ ever said that is of the smallest use to anybody? When has ‘theology’ ever said anything that is demonstrably true and is not obvious? What makes you think that ‘theology’ is a subject at all? - Richard Dawkins<br /><img src="http://tinyurl.com/y5ul6h" alt="http://tinyurl.com/y5ul6h" />

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I find it somewhat hard to comment on the 'prophecy' because we never actually hear what the 'prophecy' IS. Several characters talk about their take on the prophecy, their own definitions of it (which is realistic), but we the viewers never get to make or own true judgments. As important as it was to the story of the prequels I would have liked THAT to have been the opening crawl of Episode 1- instead of 'blah, blah, blah' about trade blockades and junk like that, open with the prophecy:

"It has been fortold, in days long ago, that out of chaos shall rise....." etc, etc etc.
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I think the one who brings balance to the force and destroy the Sith is... Luke!
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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My opinion is that The Prophecy was a great Christopher Walken movie.

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Originally posted by: greencapt
I find it somewhat hard to comment on the 'prophecy' because we never actually hear what the 'prophecy' IS. Several characters talk about their take on the prophecy, their own definitions of it (which is realistic), but we the viewers never get to make or own true judgments. As important as it was to the story of the prequels I would have liked THAT to have been the opening crawl of Episode 1- instead of 'blah, blah, blah' about trade blockades and junk like that, open with the prophecy:

"It has been fortold, in days long ago, that out of chaos shall rise....." etc, etc etc.


If you get the deleted magic dvdr it's at the beginning of that, can't exactly remember what it says. But it's taken from the journal of the whill's and the word's are roughly.... 'in a time of deepest despair the saviour will come and he will be the son of the two suns' ...or words to that effect anyway
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Originally posted by: eros
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Originally posted by: greencapt
I find it somewhat hard to comment on the 'prophecy' because we never actually hear what the 'prophecy' IS. Several characters talk about their take on the prophecy, their own definitions of it (which is realistic), but we the viewers never get to make or own true judgments. As important as it was to the story of the prequels I would have liked THAT to have been the opening crawl of Episode 1- instead of 'blah, blah, blah' about trade blockades and junk like that, open with the prophecy:

"It has been fortold, in days long ago, that out of chaos shall rise....." etc, etc etc.


If you get the deleted magic dvdr it's at the beginning of that, can't exactly remember what it says. But it's taken from the journal of the whill's and the word's are roughly.... 'in a time of deepest despair the saviour will come and he will be the son of the two suns' ...or words to that effect anyway


Hey cool! Thanks for the heads-up! I *do* have the disc but haven't had a chance to sit and watch it yet (sorry G!) but I'll make a point to do so soon.
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Originally posted by: MeBeJedi
I don't have any problems with Lucas' explanation of the Prophecy.

"And, I believe it was stated that Yoda was the most powerful Jedi."

He does call himself powerful, but not the most powerful. He did have the highest midi count until Anakin came along.



MeBeJedi,

Hi. Thanks for the post. Is this, then, how Lucas explains the Prophecy? Where could I read this?

Thanks.
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Right here.

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"... and in the time of greatest despair,
there shall come a savior, and he shall
be known as The Son of The Sun."

Journal of the Whills, 3:127
- starwars.com - Episode IV - Classic Moments - "The Son of the Sun"
Many people wonder who the real Chosen One is, and I want to know whether it's Luke or Anakin Skywalker?

While I imagine this was one of those subjects meant to spark debate and discussion, George Lucas has stated in interviews that Anakin Skywalker is indeed the Chosen One. As far as the prophecy goes, Anakin brings balance to the Force since it is he who disposes of the imbalance. That is, he kills Emperor Palpatine in Return of the Jedi. Sure, Luke is the catalyst for this turn of events, but it is ultimately Anakin who makes the choice. - Insider Magazine
"The part I am working on now [ROTJ] is mostly about Darth Vader, who he is, where he came from, how he became Luke and Leia's father, what his relationship to Ben is. In Jedi, the film is really about the redemption of this fallen angel.. Ben is the fitting good angel, and Vader is the bad angel who started off good. All these years Ben has been waiting for Luke to come of age so that he can become a Jedi and redeem his father. That's what Ben has been doing, but you dont get this in the first film." - George Lucas: Annotated Screenplays

Should Anakin have been trained?

"GL: I think it is obvious that he was wrong in Episode 1 and made a dangerous decision, but ultimately this decision may be correct. The Phantom Menace refers to the force of the dark side of the Universe. Anakin will be taken over by dark forces which in turn destroy the balance of the Galaxy, but the individual who kills the Emperor is Darth Vader - also Anakin. The tale meanders and both the prediction, and Qui-Gonn are correct - Anakin is the chosen one, and he did bring peace at last with his own sacrifice. Luke couldn't kill the Emperor himself, but he could make Anakin reflect on his life and kill the Emperor." - CUT magazine interview

"Sam Davatchi's website reports that George Lucas told a reporter for Studio Magazine that Anakin is indeed the one who brings balance to the force. In this interview, Lucas said that Anakin vanquished the Emperor and brought balance to the Force, although he did need help from Luke to do so. In addition, Lucas said that Anakin is the only person who could do that, because he is the only one who had enough power and was close enough to the emperor to destroy him. As pointed out by Cinescape Online, this fits into the following statement made by Lucas in the Making of Episode I book: "The mystery around [the chosen one] theory is that we don't know yet whether the chosen one is a good or bad person. He is to bring balance to the Force; but at this point, we don't know what side of the Force needs to be balanced out." (6/18/99)." - 1. In general, what will the New Trilogy be about?

"The first film starts with the last age of the Republic; which is it's getting tired, old, it's getting corrupt. There's the rise of the Sith, who are now becoming a force, and in the backdrop of this you have Anakin Skywalker: a young boy who's destined to be a very significant player in bringing balance back to the Force and the Republic.

In the second film, we get into more of that turmoil. It's the beginning of the Clone Wars, it's the beginning of the end of democracy in the Replublic, sorta the beginning of the end of the Republic, and it's Anakin Skyalker beginning to deal with some of his more intense emotions of anger, hatred, sense of loss, possessiveness, jealousy, and the other things he's coping with.

Then we will get to the 3rd film, where he is seduced to the dark side, which brings up to films four, five, and six, where Anakin's offspring redeem him allowing him to fulfill the prophecy where he brings balance to the Force by doing away with the Sith and getting rid of evil in the universe.
- George Lucas - from the American ANH VHS tape in the making of Episode II in the 2000 release.

"Lucas: The midi-chlorians have brought Anakin into being as 'the chosen one' who brings balance to the universe." - The Making of Episode 1, Random House, 1999.

"Profession: Chosen One" - AOTC DVD: supplementary materials: promotional TV spots: Anakin Skywalker:

It justifies, because you know Anakin and Obi-Wan have it out, but Anakin is the chosen one-he is supposed to be the best. But he comes out on the shorter end of the stick in the fight. It justifies it really nicely as the fight progresses."
- Hayden Christensen
Once all six films are complete, the following will make a nice audio and visual climax. We have determined that that was a statue of the Emperor falling and speculated that he was holding a "Peace Ball", but now that we have SEEN that, what do we hear? When panning over the crowd, you hear 2 people shouting something. One is undecipherable, the other is someone shouting "The son of suns, The son of suns!" Speculation at the time was that they were referring to Anakin and that he had saved the universe as some sort of prophet, and at the time, all we could do is wait and see if it would be explained...

Well, in some ways, the wait is over. At the end of The Phantom Menace in the parade scene, right after the ships fly over the parade, you hear it again. - Not someone else shouting "The son of suns, The son of suns!" but the same person, the same 5 second sound, tone, etc... it is the same sound byte, listen:"The Son of Suns" from ROTJ and The Son of Suns" from TPM
- http://cgi.theforce.net/theforce/tfn.cgi?storyID=3514
MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
JediRandy: They're certainly beyond any repair you're capable of making.


MeBeJedi: You aren't one of us.
Go-Mer-Tonic: I can't say I find that very disappointing.


JediRandy: I won't suck as much as a fan edit.
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Originally posted by: MeBeJedi
Right here.


MeBeJedi,

THANKS so much for the post. That must have taken a while to compile. I appreciate it.

NW

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Yes, I second that! Very informative read, MeBe! Thank you.
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He must have take ages to write that post.
"A Jedi can feel the force flow through him".
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Master MeBeJedi, you are truly wise and steady with your knowledge of the force and a keyboard to chronicle it for us.....your post is most appreciated......nice to see the dedication.

........a powerful jedi is he.......

And NW_SW_Fan, welcome to this place of intrigue and suspense, hope you enjoy your stay!!!!
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MeBe.
MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
JediRandy: They're certainly beyond any repair you're capable of making.


MeBeJedi: You aren't one of us.
Go-Mer-Tonic: I can't say I find that very disappointing.


JediRandy: I won't suck as much as a fan edit.
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I think that by eliminating most of the Jedi, the force was rebalanced or something. Balance means equal on both sides.

4

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Luke doesn't do anything. He has to be about the worst Jedi ever (sans those three that get bitched in the Emperor's office). He does get Vader down though, so I give him credit for that. However, he is not the one that fullfill the prophecy, it is Anakin.
The Jedi are all but extinct.......
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Originally posted by: Hardcore Legend
Luke doesn't do anything. He has to be about the worst Jedi ever (sans those three that get bitched in the Emperor's office). He does get Vader down though, so I give him credit for that. However, he is not the one that fullfill the prophecy, it is Anakin.


If you think about it, Luke didn't do much at all. He simply let himself get captured by the Emperor and looked out of the window while the Emperor laughed of him. Then, he was atacked by the Emperor, and THAT made Vader think twice about the whole thing and throw the Emperor down the vault. So, even if he was not much of a Jedi, he was the one who brought balace to the force and who defeated (even if unintentionally) the Sith Lord.
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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"Balance means equal on both sides."

Really? Does a "balanced meal" mean equal amounts of sugar, meat, milk and wheat? Is there a "balance of nature" when there are equal amounts of deer, trees, bobcats, sun, wind and waterl?

There is more than one definition for the word "balance".
MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
JediRandy: They're certainly beyond any repair you're capable of making.


MeBeJedi: You aren't one of us.
Go-Mer-Tonic: I can't say I find that very disappointing.


JediRandy: I won't suck as much as a fan edit.
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no but when your talking about light and dark a balance i think would mean equal amounts of both or like a 60-40 mix. the jedi order was getting to the point were they were 100-0. its funny cus this whole thing reminds of me of political ideologies. you have communium and fasium both are exact opposites of eachother, but when you look at each one in work they have many bad similarities. same thing goes with all light and all dark.
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" no but when your talking about light and dark a balance i think would mean equal amounts of both or like a 60-40 mix. the jedi order was getting to the point were they were 100-0. "

Yet Lucas doesn't state anything to this extent. This isn't a math test, folks. People can go right on ahead pretending what they think "balance" to mean, but Lucas has stated, over and over, that "balance" is achieved when Anakin kills Palpatine. Anything beyond that is your own thinking, not Lucas'.

[EDIT] Ah, I found it. This reminds me of the "Johnny hates cheese" scenario.

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TWD: One day, little Johnny came home from school and asked his mother to make him a cheese sandwhich. Johnny liked cheese sandwhiches very much, and eating one would please the young child.

FANBOY: Johnny hates cheese!

TWD: Come again?

FB: Johnny hates cheese!

TWD: Well, with all due respect, it's my story, and I should know whether or not this character I made up likes cheese or not.

FB: But I like cheese, and I don't like Johnny! So JOhnny doesn't like cheese!

TWD: Didn't you hear the part where I said that eating a cheese sandwhich would please the child?

FB: Irrelevant! He hates cheese dammit! His mom likes cheese!

TWD: His mom was the one who made him the sandwhich. She, herself, isn't the cheese affectionado.

FB: Fool! His mom loves cheese! Not Johnny Lame-o!

TWD: I give up! What's the use of me telling a story if you're just going to make up your own?
MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
JediRandy: They're certainly beyond any repair you're capable of making.


MeBeJedi: You aren't one of us.
Go-Mer-Tonic: I can't say I find that very disappointing.


JediRandy: I won't suck as much as a fan edit.
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Here's something someone said over at another forum that I frequent. He explains what the nature of the imbalance is while still remaining within the confines of what Lucas has said on the matter.

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The imbalance in the Force is Sidious, not the Jedi. A properly trained Jedi acts with the balance of the Force in mind. Ultimately selfless and the means justify the end. The Sith care nothing about the balance, using the Force to only augment themselves. Ultimately selfish and the ends justify the means.
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I would agree with that 100%.
MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
JediRandy: They're certainly beyond any repair you're capable of making.


MeBeJedi: You aren't one of us.
Go-Mer-Tonic: I can't say I find that very disappointing.


JediRandy: I won't suck as much as a fan edit.