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What do you think of the Sequel Trilogy? - a general discussion thread — Page 9

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theprequelsrule said:
I want an adaption of Heir to The Empire. Why not? Bring what is certainly THE most beloved EU material to life.

As well as being the novel that brought the franchise out of retirement, and setting its course for decades after.
No doubt, it could be done as a heady film or TV series.

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My overall impression of the sequels: A lot of people’s issues with these films stem from what they are not, but the good things about what they are are frequently ignored.

The Force Awakens is a blast, it’s fun and light and exciting. Is it just kind of a ripoff of ANH? Sure! But it introduces some great new characters and is directed confidently. It brought the films into the modern age of filmmaking, which is something Lucas was resistant to do with the prequels. Sure, he pioneered visual effects that are still being used today, but they’re reeeeaaally old school from a storytelling, directing, and editing standpoint. TFA’s story may not have been anything amazing, but it’s craft was important and strong. It had an energy to it not seen since Empire.

The Last Jedi is what happens when you put someone with a vision in charge of Star Wars, for better and for worse. I love the film specifically because it’s not trying to please anyone. All it’s interested in is telling the most dramatic story it can with the pieces set up in TFA, and I think it largely succeeds. The actors in this film give incredible performances, especially Driver, Ridley, and Mark Hamill, who has never been better. Do I wish it was about 20 minutes shorter? Sure, yeah. Otherwise, this is by far the best sequel trilogy film, and one of the better films in the whole saga. The cross-cutting sequence leading up to the Holdo maneuver, where every storyline collides at the exact same moment culminating in that breathtaking silent destruction of the First Order fleet, is one of the most astounding pieces of pop filmmaking I’ve ever seen.

Rise of Skywalker cursed itself from the beginning by trying to cram in Carrie Fisher even though she’d passed away. The retconned deleted scenes not only feel out of place, but are a bit ghoulish given the circumstances. Instead of iterating on the sometimes controversial developments of TLJ, they basically decided to ignore or retcon most of it, tying the story in knots to appease… well, nobody really. This movie is all energy but no fun, and afraid to take any chances or make interesting decisions for fear of another TLJ situation with the fans. However, Ridley and Driver are both great again, there’s some incredible visuals, and the action is interesting. Exegol is cool, Palpatine’s return was well handled, and there’s genuine chemistry between the main characters. Also, Babu Frik. Can’t forget Babu Frik.

The sequels, to me, are a genuinely interesting mixed bag. But, I feel the same way about the prequels, and in a way the OT as well. Star Wars has always been imperfect. It’s imperfections can be what makes it so endearing. I think these films will be revisited in a few years with the same enthusiasm the prequels are now.

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I couldn’t disagree more on force awakens. I mean they took Luke and made him a worthless maguffin. Who does that? He was the main character of the original Saga of episodes IV, V and VI. Because they couldn’t figure out a way to include him without upstaging the Disney characters. The one thing i did like was Finn, i liked Poe, i liked Rey and her scavenger on Jakku story. But its a bad unoriginal story and completely derivative on purpose due to the prequels having the perception of being so bad they left a stank on Star Wars.

You could still have new characters like Rey, Poe and Finn and easily set it in the far future. Don’t repeat the same beats rebels vs empire. Don’t crap all over the legacy characters. The sequels are a mixed bag. But the one thing they botched Luke, Han and Leia. Completely and utterly. Its almost unforgivable.

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JadedSkywalker said:

I couldn’t disagree more on force awakens. I mean they took Luke and made him a worthless maguffin. Who does that? He was the main character of the original Saga of episodes IV, V and VI. Because they couldn’t figure out a way to include him without upstaging the Disney characters. The one thing i did like was Finn, i liked Poe, i liked Rey and her scavenger on Jakku story. But its a bad unoriginal story and completely derivative on purpose due to the prequels having the perception of being so bad they left a stank on Star Wars.

You could still have new characters like Rey, Poe and Finn and easily set it in the far future. Don’t repeat the same beats rebels vs empire. Don’t crap all over the legacy characters. The sequels are a mixed bag. But the one thing they botched Luke, Han and Leia. Completely and utterly. Its almost unforgivable.

You took the words right out of my mouth.

But we can’t turn back. Fear is their greatest defense. I doubt if the actual security there is any greater than it was on Aquilae or Sullust. And what there is is most likely directed towards a large-scale assault.

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JadedSkywalker said:

You could still have new characters like Rey, Poe and Finn and easily set it in the far future. Don’t repeat the same beats rebels vs empire. Don’t crap all over the legacy characters. The sequels are a mixed bag. But the one thing they botched Luke, Han and Leia. Completely and utterly. Its almost unforgivable.

I would say the opposite there, as Luke in TLJ was handled excellently (Han and Leia a bit less, but nothing too outrageous like some claim). I’d also say that “unforgivable” is a strong word to use in the context of a movie franchise. Cheating on your wife with her best friend or stealing money from your family would be “unforgivable,” not doing divisive things with legacy characters.

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Darth Retcon said:

thebluefrog said:

If the Obi-Wan series doesn’t galvanize the public’s interest in Star Wars, then the other random future TV series that KK and Disney announced (Andor???) will be the final nail in the coffin.

Well, at least for another decade or two until they reboot things again.

The general public will probably be happy with anything Star Wars. Much of the public liked the Sequels going on ticket and home media sales.

Somewhat.

TFA broke records and was one of the most popular SW films.

TLJ did not do as well. Seems to fluctuate over the years at being 1/2 to 2/3 as popular.

ROS did a bit worse than TLJ.

Adjusted for inflation, the films rank:

ANH
TFA
ESB
PM
ROTJ
TLJ
ROTS
ROS
AOTC

https://cdn.statcdn.com/Infographic/images/normal/20306.jpeg

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BedeHistory731 said:

JadedSkywalker said:

I’d also say that “unforgivable” is a strong word to use in the context of a movie franchise. Cheating on your wife with her best friend or stealing money from your family would be “unforgivable,” not doing divisive things with legacy characters.

Hah, dude you have a rough time with context don’t you? This is a movie forum for nerds to over analyze and discuss ridiculous details…we are absolutely allowed to say “unforgivable”. Know where you are hahah.

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JadedSkywalker said:

I couldn’t disagree more on force awakens. I mean they took Luke and made him a worthless maguffin. Who does that? He was the main character of the original Saga of episodes IV, V and VI. Because they couldn’t figure out a way to include him without upstaging the Disney characters. The one thing i did like was Finn, i liked Poe, i liked Rey and her scavenger on Jakku story. But its a bad unoriginal story and completely derivative on purpose due to the prequels having the perception of being so bad they left a stank on Star Wars.

You could still have new characters like Rey, Poe and Finn and easily set it in the far future. Don’t repeat the same beats rebels vs empire. Don’t crap all over the legacy characters. The sequels are a mixed bag. But the one thing they botched Luke, Han and Leia. Completely and utterly. Its almost unforgivable.

I’ve said this before elsewhere, but the biggest problem with getting Star Wars “right” is that it means different things to different people. So one person’s “new and exciting” is another person’s “disrespectful and unforgiveable” and neither one is necessarily wrong. The sequel trilogy, or at least the first 2/3 of it, hits every note I want out of Star Wars, so I enjoy it. For some that’s the opposite of what they want out of Star Wars, so they hate it. We’re both right.

I see people losing their minds with excitement over what they’re doing with Luke in Mandalorian, and I’m just thinking that they’re ruining it by bringing him in, and I still feel that way. But they’re ruining what “I” personally like about it. I’m also cackling with glee over Boba fighting weird Harryhausen monster and trying to teach Tusken’s how to ride speeder bikes, and some people thing it’s horrible. Star Wars is so incredibly subjective.

I also think that if Mark Hamill hadn’t publicly reacted negatively to how Luke is handled in TLJ, people wouldn’t complain nearly as much about it, and might be able to find the good in it. It’s the best and most interesting performance of his career. I think it’s very weird that he turned the conversation on it so publicly when he did such good work. It’s a bit disrespectful to Rian Johnson, to me. He wrote these beautiful scenes for him and gave his character a lovely send off.

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SpenceEdit said:

JadedSkywalker said:

I couldn’t disagree more on force awakens. I mean they took Luke and made him a worthless maguffin. Who does that? He was the main character of the original Saga of episodes IV, V and VI. Because they couldn’t figure out a way to include him without upstaging the Disney characters. The one thing i did like was Finn, i liked Poe, i liked Rey and her scavenger on Jakku story. But its a bad unoriginal story and completely derivative on purpose due to the prequels having the perception of being so bad they left a stank on Star Wars.

You could still have new characters like Rey, Poe and Finn and easily set it in the far future. Don’t repeat the same beats rebels vs empire. Don’t crap all over the legacy characters. The sequels are a mixed bag. But the one thing they botched Luke, Han and Leia. Completely and utterly. Its almost unforgivable.

I’ve said this before elsewhere, but the biggest problem with getting Star Wars “right” is that it means different things to different people. So one person’s “new and exciting” is another person’s “disrespectful and unforgiveable” and neither one is necessarily wrong. The sequel trilogy, or at least the first 2/3 of it, hits every note I want out of Star Wars, so I enjoy it. For some that’s the opposite of what they want out of Star Wars, so they hate it. We’re both right.

I see people losing their minds with excitement over what they’re doing with Luke in Mandalorian, and I’m just thinking that they’re ruining it by bringing him in, and I still feel that way. But they’re ruining what “I” personally like about it. I’m also cackling with glee over Boba fighting weird Harryhausen monster and trying to teach Tusken’s how to ride speeder bikes, and some people thing it’s horrible. Star Wars is so incredibly subjective.

I also think that if Mark Hamill hadn’t publicly reacted negatively to how Luke is handled in TLJ, people wouldn’t complain nearly as much about it, and might be able to find the good in it. It’s the best and most interesting performance of his career. I think it’s very weird that he turned the conversation on it so publicly when he did such good work. It’s a bit disrespectful to Rian Johnson, to me. He wrote these beautiful scenes for him and gave his character a lovely send off.

Yeah, that’s basically where I’m at with the ST as well. It’s not for everybody, but it works for me (ROS a lot less than the others, but I also am indifferent to ROTJ and loathe ROTS). Book of Boba Fett was a “not for me” series (to the point of wanting a definitive ROTJ death for Boba), but I can’t really muster up much vitriol for it. Somebody likes it, but that somebody isn’t me. That’s totally OK.

Also, with the point about Mark, people neglect that Rian eventually won him over with that arc for Luke. If one wants to see what happens when you let an actor guide the entirety of their legacy character, look no further than Star Trek: Picard. I like Sir Patrick, but he’s always insisted on this terrible “action hero” version of Picard that’s completely at odds with the Picard of TNG. It screwed up the TNG movies and has definitely hurt ST:P.

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SpenceEdit said:

JadedSkywalker said:

I couldn’t disagree more on force awakens. I mean they took Luke and made him a worthless maguffin. Who does that? He was the main character of the original Saga of episodes IV, V and VI. Because they couldn’t figure out a way to include him without upstaging the Disney characters. The one thing i did like was Finn, i liked Poe, i liked Rey and her scavenger on Jakku story. But its a bad unoriginal story and completely derivative on purpose due to the prequels having the perception of being so bad they left a stank on Star Wars.

You could still have new characters like Rey, Poe and Finn and easily set it in the far future. Don’t repeat the same beats rebels vs empire. Don’t crap all over the legacy characters. The sequels are a mixed bag. But the one thing they botched Luke, Han and Leia. Completely and utterly. Its almost unforgivable.

I also think that if Mark Hamill hadn’t publicly reacted negatively to how Luke is handled in TLJ, people wouldn’t complain nearly as much about it, and might be able to find the good in it. It’s the best and most interesting performance of his career. I think it’s very weird that he turned the conversation on it so publicly when he did such good work. It’s a bit disrespectful to Rian Johnson, to me. He wrote these beautiful scenes for him and gave his character a lovely send off.

I lost a lot of respect for Rian when he started screaming about his dick to critics.

I get that being insulted online is aggravating, but when you’re a grown man, especially one given such an important public role, that’s just childish and embarrassing.

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thebluefrog said:

I lost a lot of respect for Rian when he started screaming about his dick to critics.

I get that being insulted online is aggravating, but when you’re a grown man, especially one given such an important public role, that’s just childish and embarrassing.

I actually haven’t heard about that.

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SpenceEdit said:

thebluefrog said:

I lost a lot of respect for Rian when he started screaming about his dick to critics.

I get that being insulted online is aggravating, but when you’re a grown man, especially one given such an important public role, that’s just childish and embarrassing.

I actually haven’t heard about that.

Been a few years so Disney probably made Rian delete a lot of his tantrums, but here’s some remnants:

https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWars/comments/bkozcp/some_rian_johnson_tweets/

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It’s unprofessional but I can’t exactly blame him. I don’t mean to imply all criticism of this movie is invalid, because I don’t believe that. But so much criticism of this movie is absolutely brain-dead (be honest, yes it is), especially at the time. This person specifically is obviously not exactly a deep thinker and it’s hard to imagine this person would be acting in good faith if Rian Johnson had.

Death of the Author

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SparkySywer said:

It’s unprofessional but I can’t exactly blame him. I don’t mean to imply all criticism of this movie is invalid, because I don’t believe that. But so much criticism of this movie is absolutely brain-dead (be honest, yes it is), especially at the time. This person specifically is obviously not exactly a deep thinker and it’s hard to imagine this person would be acting in good faith if Rian Johnson had.

He was acting in good faith in the last quoted part, Rian still kept screaming about his dick. Would you respect a 50 year old man screaming that, even if “justified” because some 20 year old insulted his writing?

Really, though, that’s not the point; it’s still embarrassing and childish regardless of circumstance. There were many other examples; it would just take a lot of inordinate amount of effort and time to dig through his long-deleted tantrums. Disney definitely clamped down on him fast.

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thebluefrog said:

SparkySywer said:

It’s unprofessional but I can’t exactly blame him. I don’t mean to imply all criticism of this movie is invalid, because I don’t believe that. But so much criticism of this movie is absolutely brain-dead (be honest, yes it is), especially at the time. This person specifically is obviously not exactly a deep thinker and it’s hard to imagine this person would be acting in good faith if Rian Johnson had.

He was acting in good faith in the last quoted part, Rian still kept screaming about his dick. Would you respect a 50 year old man screaming that, even if “justified” because some 20 year old insulted his writing?

Really, though, that’s not the point; it’s still embarrassing and childish regardless of circumstance. There were many other examples; it would just take a lot of inordinate amount of effort and time to dig through his long-deleted tantrums. Disney definitely clamped down on him fast.

It appears Rian Johnson didn’t delete that tweet you posted: https://twitter.com/rianjohnson/status/1124530820692283392 and I doubt Disney made him delete any tweets at all, let alone “making” him delete tweets 2 years after his film’s release. That’s not “Disney definitely clamping down on him fast”.

It is a little weird that the guy who posted the tweets to Rian later deleted them all, and has since been banned from twitter.

I’d be interested in seeing more of these “many other examples” of Rian Johnson’s twitter “tantrums” about fans not liking TLJ. When you say “regardless of circumstance”, don’t ignore or forget to also include any of the death threats the toxic “fans” sent to him, of where “fans” on one of the more poisonous reddits announced his death. Was that May 4th too? I think it was? Maybe not. Or where people tweeted him that he worse than Hitler.

Rian Johnson doesn’t come off well in that tweet you posted. But I don’t know the context of it, others in that thread seem to be think RJ was “shitposting” or simply “owning” that kevin guy. Given the amount of vile and way of the top shit thrown his way over the years for making a film some people didn’t like, I’ll give him a pass for being a bit sharp to someone who is now banned from twitter for whatever reason.

I’ve no love for TLJ either, other than it looking stunning and was at least an attempt to move Star Wars forward to take risks, but the hatred, threats and shit he received was way over any acceptable critical “norm”.

“The other Sequels were the result of an over-anxious press. The original intention was to make three [films], and that was really the end of it. It was not until 10 years after the first [film] that I thought of doing a back story.” - George Lucas, speaking at the Premiere of ROTS in 2005

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Darth Retcon said:

thebluefrog said:

SparkySywer said:

It’s unprofessional but I can’t exactly blame him. I don’t mean to imply all criticism of this movie is invalid, because I don’t believe that. But so much criticism of this movie is absolutely brain-dead (be honest, yes it is), especially at the time. This person specifically is obviously not exactly a deep thinker and it’s hard to imagine this person would be acting in good faith if Rian Johnson had.

He was acting in good faith in the last quoted part, Rian still kept screaming about his dick. Would you respect a 50 year old man screaming that, even if “justified” because some 20 year old insulted his writing?

Really, though, that’s not the point; it’s still embarrassing and childish regardless of circumstance. There were many other examples; it would just take a lot of inordinate amount of effort and time to dig through his long-deleted tantrums. Disney definitely clamped down on him fast.

It appears Rian Johnson didn’t delete that tweet you posted: https://twitter.com/rianjohnson/status/1124530820692283392 and I doubt Disney made him delete any tweets at all, let alone “making” him delete tweets 2 years after his film’s release. That’s not “Disney definitely clamping down on him fast”.

It is a little weird that the guy who posted the tweets to Rian later deleted them all, and has since been banned from twitter.

I’d be interested in seeing more of these “many other examples” of Rian Johnson’s twitter “tantrums” about fans not liking TLJ. When you say “regardless of circumstance”, don’t ignore or forget to also include any of the death threats the toxic “fans” sent to him, of where “fans” on one of the more poisonous reddits announced his death. Was that May 4th too? I think it was? Maybe not. Or where people tweeted him that he worse than Hitler.

Rian Johnson doesn’t come off well in that tweet you posted. But I don’t know the context of it, others in that thread seem to be think RJ was “shitposting” or simply “owning” that kevin guy. Given the amount of vile and way of the top shit thrown his way over the years for making a film some people didn’t like, I’ll give him a pass for being a bit sharp to someone who is now banned from twitter for whatever reason.

I’ve no love for TLJ either, other than it looking stunning and was at least an attempt to move Star Wars forward to take risks, but the hatred, threats and shit he received was way over any acceptable critical “norm”.

Sure, if you’re actually discussing in good faith, I can put in the effort of digging up arguments from the times of the actual movie release. However, it doesn’t feel that way…it feels like you believe Rian did no wrong, in which case I don’t care to change your mind. I’d rather not dig through archives of #chans and dead forums if you aren’t acting in good faith. Do not misconstrue: I have no respect for the people that were calling him Hitler and worse back then. Half of them were likely bored and angry thirteen year olds.

I am sure any creator who puts themselves out there would be angry that the next day they’re called the worst person to ever live and should die. We are all human and have emotions and I have no wish to see Rian or anyone’s feelings hurt. The point I am making is that if you DO take on the responsibility of something important, close to sacred to some, then there’s always going to be people that hate what you do, no matter how good it is. That is the reality of being in the public eye, much like getting a job of a garbageman means you’ll have to smell garbage all day. People regularly attack Lucas and JJ (even today) and neither of them start childishly lashing back at in an online slapfight.

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I’ve always wondered, do you think the reception to TLJ would’ve been different if the leaks hadn’t gotten out before it released and everyone was already pooping all over it just from the few clips they saw?

Because honestly, I really do. For a lot of fans on reddit or wherever, they had all collectively decided they hated it without actually seeing it. There was a group consensus from a big chunk of fans that the movie was bad before it even came out. The way the movie handled Snoke or Luke or whatever was already out there and people had decided it was bad, but they didn’t get to experience it in the moment. I think that would’ve made a big difference.

I avoided spoilers and online discussion, so I didn’t know about that reaction. I remember going to see it, thinking it was brilliant and everyone is going to love it, everyone in my theater loved it, all my friends loved it. Then I got home and fired up reddit and it was like they all saw a totally different movie to me. It was a very weird thing.

It’s kind of like what’s happening now with Morbius. I’m sure it’s probably terrible, but everyone decided it was terrible months ago. It never had a chance to surprise us. Same with TLJ.

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I remember when my girfriend and I went to see TLJ for the first time. We both came out of the theater with an overall good impression.

Then we went and saw it again, and the flaws started to appear.

In other words, the movie passed the Refrigerator Test (unlike TFA or TROS), but didn’t bear repeat viewings as well as, say, the OT.

Don’t get me wrong, it’s nowhere near terrible, it’s just that it is very messy in many ways.

You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)

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NeverarGreat said:

I remember when my girfriend and I went to see TLJ for the first time. We both came out of the theater with an overall good impression.

Then we went and saw it again, and the flaws started to appear.

In other words, the movie passed the Refrigerator Test (unlike TFA or TROS), but didn’t bear repeat viewings as well as, say, the OT.

Don’t get me wrong, it’s nowhere near terrible, it’s just that it is very messy in many ways.

I think “messy” is really the core problem with all the post-Disney Star Wars stuff. Everything just feels very all over the place.

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SpenceEdit said:

I’ve always wondered, do you think the reception to TLJ would’ve been different if the leaks hadn’t gotten out before it released and everyone was already pooping all over it just from the few clips they saw?

Because honestly, I really do. For a lot of fans on reddit or wherever, they had all collectively decided they hated it without actually seeing it. There was a group consensus from a big chunk of fans that the movie was bad before it even came out. The way the movie handled Snoke or Luke or whatever was already out there and people had decided it was bad, but they didn’t get to experience it in the moment. I think that would’ve made a big difference.

I avoided spoilers and online discussion, so I didn’t know about that reaction. I remember going to see it, thinking it was brilliant and everyone is going to love it, everyone in my theater loved it, all my friends loved it. Then I got home and fired up reddit and it was like they all saw a totally different movie to me. It was a very weird thing.

It’s kind of like what’s happening now with Morbius. I’m sure it’s probably terrible, but everyone decided it was terrible months ago. It never had a chance to surprise us. Same with TLJ.

I can’t speak for others, but I was almost entirely uninvolved in the fandom from 2015 to 2017, and did mostly avoid spoilers. So I went into TLJ with only some vague snippets of information, like the fact that Snoke died. I was actually quite on board with Kylo killing Snoke before I watched it, and I mainly wish it had been built up and executed better, in a way that felt more consequential to the story (i.e. not just having Kylo replace him).

I read reviews for the movie beforehand that praised it for taking Star Wars in a bold new direction, and I really hoped that was true. But I don’t think the movie was nearly as gutsy or bold as people made it out to be.

Of course, I wasn’t really expecting anything amazing, since I’d already gone into TFA (with no prior knowledge) and really disliked it, despite all the positive word-of-mouth about it. I definitely wasn’t setting out to hate these movies. And in general, I’m not overly critical about the movies I watch. I can relax and enjoy something just fine even if it’s deeply flawed. But I couldn’t do that with the sequels.

I understand how you feel, though. There are movies I feel similarly about, where I’m baffled by the negative reaction to them. And I do think it’s odd that TLJ got hit so hard while TFA was so liked. And with how easy-to-please Star Wars fans usually are, the TLJ reaction is a strange outlier.

But we can’t turn back. Fear is their greatest defense. I doubt if the actual security there is any greater than it was on Aquilae or Sullust. And what there is is most likely directed towards a large-scale assault.

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SpenceEdit said:

NeverarGreat said:

I remember when my girfriend and I went to see TLJ for the first time. We both came out of the theater with an overall good impression.

Then we went and saw it again, and the flaws started to appear.

In other words, the movie passed the Refrigerator Test (unlike TFA or TROS), but didn’t bear repeat viewings as well as, say, the OT.

Don’t get me wrong, it’s nowhere near terrible, it’s just that it is very messy in many ways.

I think “messy” is really the core problem with all the post-Disney Star Wars stuff. Everything just feels very all over the place.

For sure. I think the issue with TLJ over the others, however, is that the messiness gets in the way of the message, whereas with the JJ entries the messiness works to conceal the void where a message should reside.

You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)

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NeverarGreat said:

SpenceEdit said:

NeverarGreat said:

I remember when my girfriend and I went to see TLJ for the first time. We both came out of the theater with an overall good impression.

Then we went and saw it again, and the flaws started to appear.

In other words, the movie passed the Refrigerator Test (unlike TFA or TROS), but didn’t bear repeat viewings as well as, say, the OT.

Don’t get me wrong, it’s nowhere near terrible, it’s just that it is very messy in many ways.

I think “messy” is really the core problem with all the post-Disney Star Wars stuff. Everything just feels very all over the place.

For sure. I think the issue with TLJ over the others, however, is that the messiness gets in the way of the message, whereas with the JJ entries the messiness works to conceal the void where a message should reside.

That pretty much hits the nail on the head.

But we can’t turn back. Fear is their greatest defense. I doubt if the actual security there is any greater than it was on Aquilae or Sullust. And what there is is most likely directed towards a large-scale assault.

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thebluefrog said:

Darth Retcon said:

thebluefrog said:

SparkySywer said:

It’s unprofessional but I can’t exactly blame him. I don’t mean to imply all criticism of this movie is invalid, because I don’t believe that. But so much criticism of this movie is absolutely brain-dead (be honest, yes it is), especially at the time. This person specifically is obviously not exactly a deep thinker and it’s hard to imagine this person would be acting in good faith if Rian Johnson had.

He was acting in good faith in the last quoted part, Rian still kept screaming about his dick. Would you respect a 50 year old man screaming that, even if “justified” because some 20 year old insulted his writing?

Really, though, that’s not the point; it’s still embarrassing and childish regardless of circumstance. There were many other examples; it would just take a lot of inordinate amount of effort and time to dig through his long-deleted tantrums. Disney definitely clamped down on him fast.

It appears Rian Johnson didn’t delete that tweet you posted: https://twitter.com/rianjohnson/status/1124530820692283392 and I doubt Disney made him delete any tweets at all, let alone “making” him delete tweets 2 years after his film’s release. That’s not “Disney definitely clamping down on him fast”.

It is a little weird that the guy who posted the tweets to Rian later deleted them all, and has since been banned from twitter.

I’d be interested in seeing more of these “many other examples” of Rian Johnson’s twitter “tantrums” about fans not liking TLJ. When you say “regardless of circumstance”, don’t ignore or forget to also include any of the death threats the toxic “fans” sent to him, of where “fans” on one of the more poisonous reddits announced his death. Was that May 4th too? I think it was? Maybe not. Or where people tweeted him that he worse than Hitler.

Rian Johnson doesn’t come off well in that tweet you posted. But I don’t know the context of it, others in that thread seem to be think RJ was “shitposting” or simply “owning” that kevin guy. Given the amount of vile and way of the top shit thrown his way over the years for making a film some people didn’t like, I’ll give him a pass for being a bit sharp to someone who is now banned from twitter for whatever reason.

I’ve no love for TLJ either, other than it looking stunning and was at least an attempt to move Star Wars forward to take risks, but the hatred, threats and shit he received was way over any acceptable critical “norm”.

I’d rather not dig through archives of #chans and dead forums if you aren’t acting in good faith

Is Rian posting unprofessionally on 4chan and dead forums?

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thebluefrog said:

Darth Retcon said:

thebluefrog said:

SparkySywer said:

It’s unprofessional but I can’t exactly blame him. I don’t mean to imply all criticism of this movie is invalid, because I don’t believe that. But so much criticism of this movie is absolutely brain-dead (be honest, yes it is), especially at the time. This person specifically is obviously not exactly a deep thinker and it’s hard to imagine this person would be acting in good faith if Rian Johnson had.

He was acting in good faith in the last quoted part, Rian still kept screaming about his dick. Would you respect a 50 year old man screaming that, even if “justified” because some 20 year old insulted his writing?

Really, though, that’s not the point; it’s still embarrassing and childish regardless of circumstance. There were many other examples; it would just take a lot of inordinate amount of effort and time to dig through his long-deleted tantrums. Disney definitely clamped down on him fast.

It appears Rian Johnson didn’t delete that tweet you posted: https://twitter.com/rianjohnson/status/1124530820692283392 and I doubt Disney made him delete any tweets at all, let alone “making” him delete tweets 2 years after his film’s release. That’s not “Disney definitely clamping down on him fast”.

It is a little weird that the guy who posted the tweets to Rian later deleted them all, and has since been banned from twitter.

I’d be interested in seeing more of these “many other examples” of Rian Johnson’s twitter “tantrums” about fans not liking TLJ. When you say “regardless of circumstance”, don’t ignore or forget to also include any of the death threats the toxic “fans” sent to him, of where “fans” on one of the more poisonous reddits announced his death. Was that May 4th too? I think it was? Maybe not. Or where people tweeted him that he worse than Hitler.

Rian Johnson doesn’t come off well in that tweet you posted. But I don’t know the context of it, others in that thread seem to be think RJ was “shitposting” or simply “owning” that kevin guy. Given the amount of vile and way of the top shit thrown his way over the years for making a film some people didn’t like, I’ll give him a pass for being a bit sharp to someone who is now banned from twitter for whatever reason.

I’ve no love for TLJ either, other than it looking stunning and was at least an attempt to move Star Wars forward to take risks, but the hatred, threats and shit he received was way over any acceptable critical “norm”.

Sure, if you’re actually discussing in good faith, I can put in the effort of digging up arguments from the times of the actual movie release. However, it doesn’t feel that way…it feels like you believe Rian did no wrong, in which case I don’t care to change your mind. I’d rather not dig through archives of #chans and dead forums if you aren’t acting in good faith. Do not misconstrue: I have no respect for the people that were calling him Hitler and worse back then. Half of them were likely bored and angry thirteen year olds.

I am sure any creator who puts themselves out there would be angry that the next day they’re called the worst person to ever live and should die. We are all human and have emotions and I have no wish to see Rian or anyone’s feelings hurt. The point I am making is that if you DO take on the responsibility of something important, close to sacred to some, then there’s always going to be people that hate what you do, no matter how good it is. That is the reality of being in the public eye, much like getting a job of a garbageman means you’ll have to smell garbage all day. People regularly attack Lucas and JJ (even today) and neither of them start childishly lashing back at in an online slapfight.

My point was you may not need to go digging up his “long-deleted tantrums” as that twitter thread you posted is not actually deleted, it is still up there on Rian Johnson’s twitter for everyone to see.

And that Disney ‘“making” him delete tweets 2 years after his film’s release. That’s not “Disney definitely clamping down on him fast”’, if they did at all.

Pointing out some of the vile abuse he received for TLJ isn’t me not posting in good faith. It is just me questioning whether there was anything actually online from RJ much worse than that twitter thread you posted? This is just because of the microscope he was under from a section of fandom at the time, who were looking for anything online to further undermine him or throw his way. If there was anything found at the time it shouldn’t be too difficult to find now as it would be still up on the TFM or tabloid style sites and platforms. Or posts that are still up to see on Rian Johnson’s twitter.

My mind is open and I’ll happily wait for you to find and post the “many other examples” of Rian Johnson’s “long-deleted tantrums” on twitter.

“The other Sequels were the result of an over-anxious press. The original intention was to make three [films], and that was really the end of it. It was not until 10 years after the first [film] that I thought of doing a back story.” - George Lucas, speaking at the Premiere of ROTS in 2005

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I would also like to see more evidence of RJ ‘screaming’ and his ‘tantrums’ because the above looks remarkably calm and playful in the face of the absolute bile we all know he received then and probably still receives.

The pic doesn’t provide proper context, nor even the start of that particular exchange. Almost as if it was selected specifically to make him look as bad as possible. And you’d only be shocked and disgusted by the ‘deek’ references if you were to assume he made them unprompted, which is obviously not the case. You don’t have to search through the tweets to know he’ll be playing with terms he was submerged in at the time.