What do you think of the Sequel Trilogy? - a general discussion thread — Page 13

Servii said:

The supposedly “new empowered crew” literally screws up and gets nearly everyone in the Resistance Killed whereas if Poe had listened to Leia and Holdo in the first place none of that would have happened but apparently them failing so hard that they almost singlehandedly destroy the entire resistance is them saving the day? The only reason the entire Resistance doesn’t die is because Leia wakes up from her coma and shoots Poe into unconsciousness

If Poe had listened to Leia, the Dreadnought would have followed the Resistance fleet through hyperspace and killed them all anyway with its super mega “fleet killer” cannon. Also, Leia stunning Poe was completely overkill. Her or Holdo could have literally said the phrase “They can’t track the smaller transports” at any point, and that whole plot wouldn’t have happened.

Or that could’ve happened and Poe then could’ve said “So we’re just gonna turn tail and run away? That’s our plan?” since the movie shows he cares more about being this action hero instead of a good leader.

As for Rey, she basically doesn’t get trained in this movie. She teaches Luke more than he teaches her. And she still kicks the Praetorian guards’ butts and lifts a mountain of boulders seemingly effortlessly. And Kylo refusing to turn to the Light is moreso just a reflection of Kylo being a PoS, not Rey failing at something. She’s utterly morally superior in every situation. It’s not like with Luke and Yoda where Yoda is the source of wisdom and power that Luke needs to emulate. Rey is simply better than Luke, already. She didn’t need him at all.

It’s a back and forth. Luke teaches her about the Force which grants her a much better understanding of it while she counters his various instances of cynicism. She set out to turn Kylo to the light and failed which yes is because of Kylo himself mostly but she still failed at a goal she set out to do. The Praetorians would’ve killed Kylo and Rey had they not fought together and as for the mountain of boulders? To put it very bluntly, that’s how the Force works. ESB made it clear that all that’s keeping a Jedi from lifting heavy objects with the Force is their own mind. As Yoda said, one must unlearn what they’ve learned which means coming to accept that when you use the Force, you don’t view objects in terms of how heavy or how light they can be or think about how difficult it would be to move them with your mind, you simply view them as objects that can be moved.

Then he trolls his nephew, and dies from the effort, having done the absolute bare minimum of keeping a handful of Resistance alive.

But he kept them alive, is now far more powerful than anyone could imagine and while there’s only a handful left? I mean it was once thought the Empire was impossible to take out but it wasn’t and the legend of Luke will spread and inspire many as shown by the end of the film.

daveybjones999 said:

AspiringCreator said:

daveybjones999 said:

AspiringCreator said:

James1027 said:

TLJ basically cemented the way these new stories would go. Luke and the old guard are broken, weak, and dumb while the new empowered crew has to save the day. TLJ supposedly has a theme about failure. Yes, everyone failed. Except Rey. She successfully resists the dark side, resists Kylo, lifts countless rocks to aide the rebels, escapes snokes damaged ship and steals his private craft, bests Luke in mock combat and is able to show she is truly greater then all the other miserable failures in the film.

Well Luke also succeeded in saving the Resistance and becoming more powerful than one could possibly imagine, Poe learned the lesson about being a smarter leader and Finn learned that how they win and fight is important along with just stopping the bad guy. Also Rey failed to turn Kylo to the light, failed to see Luke’s point that things weren’t just gonna play out like they did 30 years ago and still struggled with the Dark Side by going straight to it and if you’re gonna mention that?

Yeah, I completely agree with you on this 1 part. Rey is constantly failing at literally everything in the 8th movie and people come out of it thinking she’s a Mary Sue? Like what? Were people paying any attention during the course of the movie? She fails to convince Luke to train her, R2 does that, she fails Luke’s first lesson at first and immediately goes to the dark side, she messes up her lightsaber training by losing focus and destroying the rock, and she’s not able to do anything to Snoke and needs Kylo Ren to save her ass, she spends most of the fight with the pretorian guards fighting 1-2 of them whilst Kylo Ren kills the rest, only being able to help out at the last second, she fails to turn Kylo Ren back to the light side of the force. She also fails to convince Luke to help out the Resistance and come out of hiding, Yoda does that. The only thing Rey succeeds at in The Last Jedi is knocking down Luke who clearly wasn’t going all out or trying to hurt her, fighting off some of the tie fighters on Crait and lifting a bunch of rocks to save the Resistance. I definitely understand criticisms of her being a Mary Sue in episodes 7 and 9, but she’s the complete opposite of a Mary Sue in episode 8 in which she fails in literally everything that she sets out to do through the entire film. Also, the Old Guard are literally the only characters who are competent in episode 8, what film are people watching? The supposedly “new empowered crew” literally screws up and gets nearly everyone in the Resistance Killed whereas if Poe had listened to Leia and Holdo in the first place none of that would have happened but apparently them failing so hard that they almost singlehandedly destroy the entire resistance is them saving the day? The only reason the entire Resistance doesn’t die is because Leia wakes up from her coma and shoots Poe into unconsciousness, and the only reason Rey can lift the rocks to save the Resistance is because Luke Skywalker projects himself onto the planet to stall Kylo Ren. Come on now The Last Jedi isn’t a perfect movie and clearly didn’t do a good enough job at relating its themes and what it was trying to do to the audience, but I fail to see how the old guard is portrayed as incompetent

I’ve always felt whenever I hear complaints about Rey being a “Mary Sue”? I honestly wonder if we’re consuming the same franchise because if one does that? I feel then they should judge the rest of the series because by their logic? Plenty of characters fit the bill of being a Mary Sue. Luke fits it, Anakin fits it, Starkiller fits it. Honestly I feel like I’d be more understanding if it was just said that they didn’t like Rey as a character and left it as that.

I will disagree with Luke being a Gary Stu. He trains and struggles a lot more than Rey ever does, even though I don’t think Rey is a Mary Sue I can understand that a little in episode 7. But your point about the other protagonists still stands.

Thing is, I said by their logic because fundamentally, the things they’re angry about with Rey can be applied to Luke. For instance, if they’re asking how Rey can just fly ships and write off her time as a scavenger and her line that she has flown before as a cop-out? Luke at best in ANH has been shown to drive a landspeeder and he states he flew a T-16 which we don’t know is an airspeeder and his only time in a ship is in the Falcon’s turret and as a passenger but he can pilot an X-Wing no problem. Rey uses the Force with little explanation, Luke is told basically the equivalent of “Just feel it out bro.” and he does it. Now I don’t personally think he’s a Mary Sue but it’s easy enough to see when you frame things a certain way how he could be seen as one and why the arguments against Rey, who arguably in many instances has more explanation for her abilities that are rooted in what has been in SW before, seem bogus because really, it’s clear it’s just a general dislike for the character showing through that leads to the Mary Sue comment.

Everybody always argues about Rey being too overpowered, or never failing, or definitely failing all the time, etc. Debating whether or not Rey’s “fail count” or “Mary Sue score” approximates Luke’s “fail count” or “Mary Sue score” overlooks the real underlying problem with TLJ’s themes and message.

In terms of Rey’s arc, TLJ presents three inter-related messages/themes:

1. Failure is a great teacher

2. Elders from the past can teach us what types of failure to avoid

3. Apart from learning what failures to avoid, there is little else of value we can learn from elders or knowledge passed down to us, so we must look inward to ourselves to move forward

In isolation, Message (1) and (2) are good messages. However, the way the movie connects Message (1) and (2) with Message (3) is very harmful to Star Wars (and harmful in general).

But since this is controversial, first I’ll provide evidence that TLJ actually conveys these messages. Message (1) is conveyed explicitly through dialogue by Yoda. Message (2) is presented in various ways, such as when Yoda says “Luke, we are what they grow beyond”, and when Yoda tells Luke that the most important thing he must pass on is his follies and failures, so younger generations can grow beyond them. Message (3) is an extension of Message 2, and is presented explicitly when Yoda mocks the “sacred Jedi texts” and says “that library contained nothing that the girl Rey does not already possess”, before literally burning down the library. Message (3) is also presented through Rey’s journey throughout the film, as Rey doesn’t actually learn much about being a Jedi from Luke. Luke mostly teaches Rey how the Jedi failed or were wrong, while Rey trains herself and then takes the ancient texts along with her so she can self-learn. The over-arching message here is that knowledge passed down by elders is only useful so we can learn how to avoid past failures, but in terms of going forward and learning/achieving new things, there is little our elders can teach us, so we must look inward to ourselves.

Now, while these themes are prominent throughout TLJ, the movie also muddles these messages a bit, which can easily be mistaken for intentional nuance. These messages are muddled in four primary ways:

• Message 3 is also conveyed by the famous line from Kylo Ren “Let the past die”. But since Kylo is a villain, this dialogue is presumably not meant to be taken as a teachable moment for the audience.

• Message 2 and 3 are conveyed by Yoda, but Yoda himself comes from the failed past, so why should we even listen to him?

• Yoda says the Jedi texts are mostly useless to Rey, yet Rey takes them with her anyway.

• Yoda also mentions two positive things (strength and mastery) as things that should be passed down by elders

I believe these muddled aspects and inconsistencies do not represent any intentional nuance in the overall message. They are mostly just inconsistencies/contradictions in the writing. In regard to Rey taking the Jedi texts with her, this was probably included so Rey had some way of learning more about the Force after Luke dies. With the Jedi texts, Rey can learn by herself - rather than learn from an elder. (The fact that the texts themselves were written by past elders is probably another oversight not to be taken as intentional nuance). And as for “strength and mastery”, despite this brief lip service to past knowledge, Rey does not actually learn any “strength and mastery” from Luke. She learns those things by looking inward to herself.

Regardless of the inconsistencies, the overall message is pretty clear: “knowledge/ideas passed down by elders is useful mostly so we can learn to avoid past failures, but there is little the past can teach us as we move forward, so we must look inward to ourselves.” In my opinion, this is a harmful, insidious message that, when taken to its logical endpoint, results in solipsism and narcissism.

Instead, Star Wars should portray the learning process as a give and take between elder and younger generation, with the elder conveying most of the knowledge, but the younger offering a unique perspective that forces elders to reconsider long-held beliefs. The OT did this perfectly, with Luke learning from Kenobi and Yoda, but also proving them wrong by redeeming Vader.

Finally, it’s true that Rey herself also fails badly in TLJ. This is what the “Mary Sue” crowd doesn’t acknowledge. Rey gets her ass kicked by Snoke, she has to be saved by Kylo, and then she fails to bring Kylo back to the light. Now, Luke definitely fails more often (let’s get real here), but this is actually not even relevant. The important point is that Rey’s strength and power come almost exclusively from looking inward to herself and tapping into her inner strength, not by learning from an elder mentor who bestows knowledge from the past. This is an extension of what happens in TFA, where Rey’s Force powers spontaneously manifest with no prior training. It’s also why Rey sees an endless reflection of herself during her vision in the underground cave. TLJ ends triumphantly with Rey lifting tons of boulders - a feat that nobody taught her to do (apart from some meta-joke about lifting rocks). Rather, it was only her own inner strength that enabled her to do it.

And that’s the real difference between Rey and Luke. Both of them experienced failure. Both had some “Mary Sue” moments. But Luke learned from elder mentors. Rey learned that she only needed herself.

Channel72 said:

while these themes are prominent throughout TLJ, the movie also muddles these messages a bit, which can easily be mistaken for intentional nuance. These messages are muddled in four primary ways:

• Message 3 is also conveyed by the famous line from Kylo Ren “Let the past die”. But since Kylo is a villain, this dialogue is presumably not meant to be taken as a teachable moment for the audience.

• Message 2 and 3 are conveyed by Yoda, but Yoda himself comes from the failed past, so why should we even listen to him?

Simple, because it shows Yoda learned from those failures, it’s a reminder of something we see in ESB’s portrayal of Yoda compared to his portrayal in the prequels. If you don’t consume any expanded material, you could say Yoda was always thinking in this manner and that he only had a lightsaber in AOTC for the sake of self-defense and if you did engage in it? Those stories make it abundantly clear that Yoda eventually came to see all the flaws of the old order and thus went out of his way to not make the same mistakes, an idea you could infer even on your own since… well it’s been so long that surely Yoda had to have learned something.

• Yoda says the Jedi texts are mostly useless to Rey, yet Rey takes them with her anyway.

• Yoda also mentions two positive things (strength and mastery) as things that should be passed down by elders

the overall message is pretty clear: “knowledge/ideas passed down by elders is useful mostly so we can learn to avoid past failures, but there is little the past can teach us as we move forward, so we must look inward to ourselves.” In my opinion, this is a harmful, insidious message that, when taken to its logical endpoint, results in solipsism and narcissism.

Instead, Star Wars should portray the learning process as a give and take between elder and younger generation, with the elder conveying most of the knowledge, but the younger offering a unique perspective that forces elders to reconsider long-held beliefs. The OT did this perfectly, with Luke learning from Kenobi and Yoda, but also proving them wrong by redeeming Vader.

Finally, it’s true that Rey herself also fails badly in TLJ. This is what the “Mary Sue” crowd doesn’t acknowledge. Rey gets her ass kicked by Snoke, she has to be saved by Kylo, and then she fails to bring Kylo back to the light. Now, Luke definitely fails more often (let’s get real here), but this is actually not even relevant. The important point is that Rey’s strength and power come almost exclusively from looking inward to herself and tapping into her inner strength, not by learning from an elder mentor who bestows knowledge from the past. This is an extension of what happens in TFA, where Rey’s Force powers spontaneously manifest with no prior training. It’s also why Rey sees an endless reflection of herself during her vision in the underground cave. TLJ ends triumphantly with Rey lifting tons of boulders - a feat that nobody taught her to do (apart from some meta-joke about lifting rocks). Rather, it was only her own inner strength that enabled her to do it.

Thing is? That’s pretty in-line with the Force. When Yoda was telling Luke to lift up the X-Wing, he expressed doubt which led to Yoda explaining basically that the ability to use the Force comes down to patience and mostly accepting this new form of thinking. It’s about inner strength and accepting a whole new thought process. Strength and mastery in this is not about exercising some Force muscle or whatever, it’s about letting go and allowing this energy to guide you. Rey learned she needed to believe in herself but she also learned facts about how those stories she loved were about real people and that the wars clearly took tolls on them, that the Jedi aren’t 100% squeaky clean arbiters of peace and also learned some hard truths. Luke told her things aren’t just gonna go the way she thinks they will because they happened once before… and he’s proven right. Not to mention there is a back and forth, Luke’s cynicism is framed as being wrong but understandable with Rey taking every opportunity to counter it. The two do learn from one another and ultimately end up with the movie’s message that those who are too shackled to the past are often doomed to repeat it and that ultimately, failure is as much a part of the process of growth as any other element.

I really don’t see this supposed “anti learning from elders” message.

Luke has a story in between 6 and 7. Lucasfilm for some reason just hasn’t told it beyond a couple cameos, a comic book and a novel. The sequel trilogy isn’t at fault for that though nor is Rian Johnson. The sequel trilogy is Rey’s trilogy not about Luke. Its not about Anakin either. It really didn’t even need to have the OT actors at all and could even have been set in the far future. Because they do very little at all they were window dressing. They are touchstones of memory. Remember Luke, Remember Han, Remember Leia. Fan service for Gen X fans. Even down to largely following the same style and story beats of the originals. Rebels Vs Empire. Jedi Vs Sith.

The actual world building is shallow and poor. Bordering on imitation. We know nothing about the state of the New Republic, or how the resistance became to be. We no nothing of the origins of the first order or the state of the Empire. And we never see the Return of the Jedi. I hate to say it but the prequel did a better job at world building than actual flavor of the story or likeable characters which the sequel did better. And the OT did better than both. But it was a smaller story and more contained.

I will say going back to the adventure style of the OT was enjoyable actually and i initially really enjoyed Force Awakens because it brought that style of good Star Wars back. It only took me awhile to realize well of course i liked it i love the 1977 film. I understand what George Lucas meant when he said Disney made a fan movie, that did nothing new.

I will always like Rey, Poe, Finn and Rose and i wish the movies were better.

AspiringCreator said:

Thing is? That’s pretty in-line with the Force. When Yoda was telling Luke to lift up the X-Wing, he expressed doubt which led to Yoda explaining basically that the ability to use the Force comes down to patience and mostly accepting this new form of thinking. It’s about inner strength and accepting a whole new thought process. Strength and mastery in this is not about exercising some Force muscle or whatever, it’s about letting go and allowing this energy to guide you.

Learning the Force has always been depicted as a master/apprentice relationship, requiring discipline and practice. The “new form of thinking” Yoda talks about is what requires this discipline and practice. The OT makes it clear this requires a mentor and teacher. If you include the Prequels, this means years of training. What happens with Rey is completely different. For her it’s like a light-switch. She just spontaneously develops near fully-formed Force capabilities (Jedi mind trick, lifting objects, lightsaber combat). Nobody teaches her and there’s no progression. I can’t imagine how anyone could possibly say this is anything like the earlier films.

I really don’t see this supposed “anti learning from elders” message.

Yoda says the ancient Jedi texts are useless to Rey and then literally burns down the library. What kind of twisted message is this?

Channel72 said:
Learning the Force has always been depicted as a master/apprentice relationship, requiring discipline and practice. The “new form of thinking” Yoda talks about is what requires this discipline and practice. The OT makes it clear this requires a mentor and teacher. If you include the Prequels, this means years of training. What happens with Rey is completely different. For her it’s like a light-switch. She just spontaneously develops near fully-formed Force capabilities (Jedi mind trick, lifting objects, lightsaber combat). Nobody teaches her and there’s no progression. I can’t imagine how anyone could possibly say this is anything like the earlier films.

Not quite, it’s more like how in the real world there are people who are naturally gifted with and tuned to certain talents but the only thing it allows them is a headstart. Discipline and practice plays a part in using the Force but it’s not the same as other skills. It’s about accepting a new form of thinking, letting go of your doubts and fully embracing this energy. In TFA and TLJ? Rey shows she’s good at combat because of all her time spent on Jakku. The Jedi mind trick is not that hard because it works on the weak-minded and since Rey is gradually learning about the Force abilities she has and has known the stories of the Jedi? It makes sense she’d think “Wait a second, the Jedi have the ability to use this mind trick thing right? Well maybe we can give this a shot.” and she fails two times before when she’s clearly scared and unsure of herself with the third time being when she clears her mind and focuses. The Force is not this RPG skill-tree where you unlock abilities based on aptitude nor is it a martial art. It’s a mystical energy source that connects every living being and technically can be tapped into at any time. The discipline aspect comes in learning when not to use it and how to focus better so that you can use it more efficiently.

Yoda says the ancient Jedi texts are useless to Rey and then literally burns down the library. What kind of twisted message is this?

Thing is, Yoda did that because Rey had the texts with them. Him burning down the tree was basically him showing his frustration with Luke being unable to do it and also him basically saying that like in ESB, Luke fails to focus on the now and instead keeps focusing on either the past or the future. As the movie’s ultimate message is, the past is not something we should ignore or seek to end but rather it’s something to learn from as we look forward since if we’re a slave to our past? We’ll never usually venture out outside our comfort zone or improve and we might end up inadvertently repeating the past and if we ignore it? Obviously we’ll risk repeating the past since we don’t know what to look out for and we see that message reflected here. Luke thinks the Jedi need to end because of his mistakes and he looks back on the history as a jaded man and sees failure. Yoda has looked back on the history and clearly sees just the spots they need to do better on. Rey thinks she can turn Kylo based on their connection and how in the past Luke turned Vader… and she fails because she doesn’t realize Vader and Kylo are different people and fails to see that Luke turning Vader came as a result of having a year to prepare for that decision and circumstances leading to it.

of_Kaiburr_and_Whills said:
I’ve come to view Rey’s training and quickly acquired skills in the Force as a representational thing, corresponding with her storyline of moving forward in life. Its more symbolic in a sense. The issue for me arises in reconciling that way of seeing the Force with the more discipline/training approach we’ve seen prior, where yes there is a symbolic aspect, but there is certainly a more proper generational tradition of knowledge and training. For Rey, its not so much learning to feel the Force and swordfight, rather its about how to control her powers and how to use them for good(?)

To me, there’s a clear difference in how both characters skills in the Force are presented and what they mean for their respective stories. The Force itself operates a little bit different between either trilogy, though certain principles may carry over. Honestly, I will always prefer Luke’s story here, but with more refinement I think this approach for Rey could have been equally interesting. And lets be honest, I may be looking too far into this lol.

I think the issue comes down to an aspect of Star Wars that’s just always going to affect future entries. For years before TFA… Star Wars was done. Yes there was the EU but in terms of the movie franchise and TV shows? It was over with most of the projects we’d get often taking place in periods in-between the movies with the games, comics and novels being left to explore outside of it. Generally speaking, if Lucas was involved? It was not gonna be placed timeline-wise after the films. But as a result, many fans have had more than enough time to dwell on the Force and how it was represented in those years to come which led to very skewed interpretations, especially after the prequels and what they showed with the Force.

The thing about the Force and the way the ST shows it is that it’s not exclusively about discipline and training at least in the same way as other skills are learned. The Force is a mystical energy that binds every living being together, it’s present within every living being with most likely not even knowing that it’s there though everyone has great potential to use it and like any skill? It’s possible to be naturally gifted in it, especially if the person in-question already knows about the Force beforehand. I always think to for instance how Luke’s training in ESB played out. The physical training aspect is him running and jumping around Dagobah which could be considered at least in terms of these movies basic exercise but for the majority of it? It’s about clearing his mind, focusing and learning to accept this new line of thinking. The famous “Judge me by my size do you?” exchange especially shows this because in that scene, Luke is doubting himself since to him, moving a ship is impossible because he knows he physically can’t move it himself so he thinks the same principle applies to moving it with the Force and as Yoda shows… it doesn’t work like that. If Luke believed in himself and let those doubts be brushed aside? He could’ve done what Yoda asked.

Rey has grown up in a world where Luke has saved the galaxy already and thus stories of the Jedi and Force are seemingly more widely spread. TFA shows us she has been on Jakku for years and that it’s a trading outpost meaning she has likely heard over the years many talks about the Jedi from people coming there. We also see from her home and how she plays around with the pilot helmet she’s surrounded by remnants of the old war and has an interest in it and so she’s more easily able to accept the Force’s concepts like being able to move objects and mentally influence the weak-minded. What she doesn’t get is that the Force is not only more than that but that it’s also not so cut-and-dry. She also lacks confidence in the sense that she sees herself as just a scavenger girl who’s not made for adventure while Luke desired something more which limited her on what she could do. To me, it’s why I think it’s understandable that Jedi with permission take children to the temple to train them not just because they recognize the potential on display but that also with them being children? They can take to certain concepts better though what they say requires rigid training and skill they might’ve gotten wrong since in life we always have to revise our understanding of certain concepts.

Like to me with the whole discussion about Rey, I ask one thing… is she Starkiller? Is she Kyle Katarn? Is she Revan? What I mean by that is that those three and others are examples of what I think when the topic of broken Star Wars characters come to mind because in the games they hail from, they can become absolute murderbosses and when they were taken out of the game and thrown into other media? What was done to nerf them was basically take away their ability to eat laser blasts and then heal with either regenerating health or health packs and lightsabers are not just baseball bats because there’s no lifebar so they can’t take a hit from those either. Otherwise? They’re still insanely powerful and highly skilled to the point where what they do borders on the ridiculous. Like people think Rey moving rocks is far-fetched? Starkiller moved a whole Star Destroyer and it doesn’t matter what version of the story you’re consuming, it’s made very clear he did that. People say Rey’s combat skills are absurd? Kyle Katarn is a master of every single lightsaber fighting style and is shown on many occasions to be John Wick-levels of competent. Rey defeating a weakened Kylo is too mu-did we see the same game where Starkiller full-on beats down Darth Vader and beats the Emperor. Granted the latter was likely holding back to a degree but still, that happened and Starkiller still did things to the Emperor that should’ve killed him with the only thing saving him is that ANH hasn’t happened yet so he has to be prevented from killing them since this is a canon story when from the looks of things? He could’ve solved the problem right then and there.

This article IMO perfectly encapsulates the problems with the Sequel Trilogy.

https://www.cracked.com/blog/why-new-star-wars-trilogy-was-doomed-from-start?utm_campaign=social-account&utm_content=&utm_medium=macro_fromlink&utm_partner=cracked&utm_source=facebookCKD

fmalover said:

This article IMO perfectly encapsulates the problems with the Sequel Trilogy.

https://www.cracked.com/blog/why-new-star-wars-trilogy-was-doomed-from-start?utm_campaign=social-account&utm_content=&utm_medium=macro_fromlink&utm_partner=cracked&utm_source=facebookCKD

I think a few things on this should be noted. First, the EU already invalidated ROTJ. I mean, kriff if you really want to be mean, you could point out every sequel technically undoes the accomplishments of the original by virtue of it continuing thus necessitating the need for new challenges. Next, it kind of has a point on the lack of set-up and development for this new world… but then busts the kneecaps of it when it gets a detail wrong by asking why would the First Order need to destroy the Republic’s system and equates what they did to throwing a hand grenade into the White House garden and suddenly ending sauerkraut when… they blew up five planets and one had the New Republic’s leadership and governing body. They then continue to get details wrong such as when they talk about the fleet in TROS which was not just Resistance (Which I should note it’s them a year after TLJ.) but also the wider galaxy answering the call to action.

Like I feel like with Sequel criticism comparing it to Prequel criticism, more often than not it feels we’ve seen different movies.