What do you think of The Prequel Trilogy? A general discussion. — Page 6

The Prequels were written poorly. Anakin should have been the same actor throughout all three movies.

They should have followed closely with Anakin from the start, instead George started with the Jedi who then run into Anakin halfway into the movie.

We should have watched the trade federation attack Naboo, then we jump to Anakin, mirroring The events of A New Hope where we see Darth Vader attack and board Tantive IV and then we meet Luke later.

After the initial attack on Naboo, we finally get to meet Anakin and we see how good a person he is. Then we see the Jedi arrive and he meets Padme, and then they build on that. You establish his character, then you bring in Padme so they can connect and establish the beginning of their relationship.

I would have had Senator Palpatine sense something directly after the Jedi meet Anakin, he senses Anakin before even meeting him in person. Yoda feels it as well, but doesn’t know what it is yet.

The political stuff should have been limited to a few scenes and then it’s over. It should have concentrated more on Anakin/Padme and then Anakin/ Kenobi.

Episode II

Should have concentrated more on Anakin’s unfinished training, meeting Padme and establishing a connection again after being gone for 3 years, instead of 10 years. Anakin learns to be a Jedi quickly because he’s different.

First half it’s about Anakin and Kenobi. Anakin disobeys Kenobi to save his mother and to see more of Padme.
The story about his mother and the Lars family still happens. Kenobi shows no sympathy for Anakin’s mother’s death, while Palpatine feels Anakin’s pain and comforts him. Anakin feels safe to go to Palpatine instead of his own master.

Episode III

Anakin and Kenobi’s relationship is strained, the Jedi council basically giving up on him because of Kenobi. They refuse to promote him, just like in the film, only slightly different.

Thanks screams in the void, but I think some things need to happen in the Prequels, other scenes could go and be replaced.

Episode II would be showing more of Anakin’s fighting and piloting skills, being more of a good friend, and have more of a personal relationship with Kenobi, hinting toward the end that this dark side lingers inside him.

I would also have it where it would be more of Kenobi’s fault for not letting Anakin get to his mother on time, and feeding this anger toward his teacher and friend.

I do think there are scenes that are good for the overall story and others, like Jar Jar and the Gungans should have been omitted and focused more on Anakin or Kenobi’s character.

I loved Shmi Skywalker, the pod race and Darth Maul, but Jar Jar and the slapstick comedy had to go, it was a waste of film (not for kiddos though)

The first film should have had a more serious tone with less comedy.

Sifo was supposed to original be Sidious. Just like Palpatine originally was going to be Anakin’s father who created him with Midi-Chlorians. Sometimes it is better to either drop one of these ideas or to imply it.

Seeing how Disney basically did what George originally envisioned for Anakin with Rey, its not like these ideas go away forever.

I have gone through a fascinating journey with the Prequel Trilogy. Like probably a good 50-70% of the site and maybe Star Wars fandom in general, I grew up in the era of the prequels. They were not necessarily the movies that got me into Star Wars but they were the big talk of the town and like many kids from that era I grew up loving them. Then over time I went back to watch them and I found I hated them and now they live in this interesting area where I think they are simultaneously overrated and overhated.

At their core just looking at them from an idea standpoint? They had so much potential. I love the idea of giving Darth Vader’s sacrifice more weight by seeing the man he once was and how he was seduced to the Dark Side. Seeing the Clone Wars even for a moment was really cool as was seeing the prime of the Jedi and all these new interesting worlds that are being created through digital effects to show just how far technology has come and where it can go in the future. Where the prequels really falter is in their execution which is very clunky at best and overcomplicated and nonsensical at worst.

The worst of them are The Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones which to me are pretty interchangeable in how badly they’re done because they suffer from so much bloat. At its core, it works to an extent, we see how in TPM the Jedi operate at their prime and how they’re resolving what appears to be a normal dispute in the galaxy. It then quickly goes to hell and keeps escalating until we get the big battle at the end which reveals the Sith have returned and we get the beginnings of Palpatine’s rise to power. AOTC continues the story and shows how Anakin’s corruption is starting to shape him, we get more hints that something more sinister is developing and we get the reveal of what will become the Empire and ROTS is the culmination of Palpatine’s plan and the death of Anakin Skywalker. But the movies go out of their way way to either be painfully slow and dull with scenes that waste time and dialogue that often just restates what they’re already doing which also is written and sounds like it’s being done by robots who want to understand the hu-mans or so overloaded with unfunny slapstick that it makes you wonder if Lucas forgot he was making an epic space opera. They also commit the big prequel sins by making unnecessary connections that just don’t need to be there just because some of these elements are in later movies. Now I’m not one of those people who says the prequels have to be able to be completely enjoyed in chronological order and thus should have no connections at all. They were designed for a world that knew Star Wars already so some connections should be expected but some of the ones they incorporate are so baffling. Anakin building C-3P0 is completely unnecessary to the story, the pod and him being shown in Watto’s shop do a lot to imply this kid is genuinely great with tech already, him being stated to have built Threepio gives us really no new information but also it draws a tenuous connection between two characters that did not have one before and did not need one. Just because you can add more information doesn’t necessarily mean that info is important nor does that mean you should do it. We don’t need that Chewbacca knows Yoda. Can I buy he’d meet a Jedi at least once in his life? I absolutely can and I don’t think it ruins the OT having Han not believe in the Force but to meet Yoda, the Jedi Grand Master? That’s a step too far.

I also really do not care for how it right away makes Anakin so important to this universe. Now the Chosen One angle I’m personally fine with. Various religions believe in various ideas and some of them include prophecies like this so I can buy that the Jedi actually would buy into this one. The problem is them leaning so hard into the idea that this is actually true with Anakin being born via virgin birth and even comments after the fact that state his sacrifice in ROTJ is fulfilling that destined prophecy. To me there is enough emotional weight just in the idea of a broken man who has been lied to and manipulated his whole life by the most evil being in the galaxy being motivated to redeem himself and lift himself out of the darkness because where everyone else said he was far too gone and after years of coming to accept this is just what his life is now, his son saw the good in him and even turned off his lightsaber in spite of how easily he could’ve killed him, like he recognized that he was making the same mistakes he once did and decided not to repeat them. Now though? Now the Skywalkers suddenly have too much importance to this whole galaxy. It’s no longer a case where we just so happened to spend a story focusing on this family, suddenly they are the most important family to ever live because the matriarch is almost Space Jesus and now Luke doesn’t just have a special history, he now has the most special history out of anyone. It takes his story about being just a regular farmboy who yearns for adventure that grows into becoming a noble hero who saves the galaxy and really strips it of ironically what made it special by trying to make it more special. Top that off with the reveal of the Midichlorians which just serve to overcomplicate what was an easy to understand mystical system that revolved around belief and accepting another point-of-view with the only things that limit you being how attuned you are to the Force naturally and your own mental blocks and it turns Star Wars I feel into just a standard fantasy tale or like a bad D&D game.

Really what the prequels needed to do was simplify. For instance, if they really needed a Fett in the movies? It would’ve been easier to just have Boba Fett as a grown adult and have him live through AOTC. You don’t need Dooku and Grievous, Maul should’ve been the main villain through all the films. Threepio? He either was a droid Anakin repaired or he’s just with the Republic since it would make sense for a translator droid to be present. They also really should’ve tightened up Anakin’s story, AOTC and TPM I feel you could combine to a degree with changes to make a better Episode I, ROTS can be altered to be Episode II as this is where we get some of Anakin’s brightest and darkest moments just maybe without the end of the Jedi and him becoming Vader and then III can just be all about his disillusionment and how he is on the cusp of becoming Vader. I know in some ways this would negate TCW and some of the EU content but that’s where the biggest issue of the PT rears its ugly head. It isn’t that the PT is just so massive that it required more content to flesh it out, it’s that these movies were made so overcomplicated and focused on so many of the wrong things that other storytellers had to refocus the story to make it coherent. TCW shouldn’t have had to be the series to make Anakin’s fall believable, it should’ve been a fun piece of side-content that fleshed out the universe for those who wanted that while the PT gives us the major beats. As it is though the PT is so bloated and lacking in central focus that honestly you’re better off reading a summary of what happened, watching the battles and then TCW and leaving it at that for your prequel era visit. And I know George had very specific intentions for these movies and I have no problem with that. It’s his story, he obviously should be allowed to do what he wants and I get why a lot of people really love the prequels. I’ve seen and read analyses by many that cover what makes the prequels great to them and they’ve certainly helped me to enjoy them more during rewatches and I think that’s great. But I can only appreciate so much before I notice the poor execution staring me in the face.

I disagree on one hand Threepio being built by Anakin stretches canon to its breaking point. On the other its funny that Anakin become Vader more machine than man and Threepio is very human like, a robot he built. Just like even though it breaks canon Vader being born at the same time Padme dies is a very powerful visual. Its like Lucas was being too clever.

But i don’t buy the poetry it rhymes stuff. Or whatever some fan created online to describe the movies. There is visual symmetry and continuity, almost accidentally at times due to Lucas recycling ideas. But the most interesting aspect to me would have been Luke and Anakin having similar journey’s that ended up in a different place. Lucas failed in executing that. Anakin’s turn and his friendship with Obi-Wan are completely bungled, rushed or skipped over. The Opera scene was interesting, that is a seduction to power and evil. But the whole join the dark side to save Padme doesn’t work. Not sure what other answer to Anakin’s turn Lucas could have done. But it should have been like what was described in the OT, and the Return of the Jedi novelization.

JadedSkywalker said:

I disagree on one hand Threepio being built by Anakin stretches canon to its breaking point. On the other its funny that Anakin become Vader more machine than man and Threepio is very human like, a robot he built. Just like even though it breaks canon Vader being born at the same time Padme dies is a very powerful visual. Its like Lucas was being too clever.

That’s fair, I will say even that I am one of those people that normally won’t care if something breaks canon a little if I like the storytelling and themes at play though with Anakin and Threepio, I feel like even with that comparison it’s mostly bandages at best for what is pretty decently big wound. There are bigger issues though that I’m willing to concede to.

JadedSkywalker said:

But i don’t by the poetry it rhymes stuff. Or whatever some fan created online to describe the movies. There is visual symmetry and continuity, almost accidentally at times due to Lucas recycling ideas. But the most interesting aspect to me would have been Luke and Anakin having similar journey’s that ended up in a different place. Lucas failed in executing that. Anakin’s turn and his friendship with Obi-Wan are completely bungled, rushed or skipped over. The Opera scene was interesting, that is a seduction to power and evil. But the whole join the dark side to save Padme doesn’t work. Not sure what other answer to Anakin’s turn Lucas could have done. But it should have been like what was described in the OT, and the return of the jedi novelization.

I definitely would agree with that. Like I said, the prequels are in desperate need of simplification. The focal point of this story feels like it should be Anakin and how he’s a good honest person that gets manipulated by the Dark Side but the movies focus so much on setting up other elements, at times pointless side-quests and overdoes it on Anakin being such a good person before he turns that it means his evil switch has to be flipped to 100 real quick to where it’s almost unnatural.

Basically it boils down to this:

The prequels are a fantastic story with subpar execution.
The sequels are fantastic execution of a subpar story.

AspiringCreator said:

JadedSkywalker said:

I disagree on one hand Threepio being built by Anakin stretches canon to its breaking point. On the other its funny that Anakin become Vader more machine than man and Threepio is very human like, a robot he built. Just like even though it breaks canon Vader being born at the same time Padme dies is a very powerful visual. Its like Lucas was being too clever.

That’s fair, I will say even that I am one of those people that normally won’t care if something breaks canon a little if I like the storytelling and themes at play though with Anakin and Threepio, I feel like even with that comparison it’s mostly bandages at best for what is pretty decently big wound. There are bigger issues though that I’m willing to concede to.

JadedSkywalker said:

But i don’t by the poetry it rhymes stuff. Or whatever some fan created online to describe the movies. There is visual symmetry and continuity, almost accidentally at times due to Lucas recycling ideas. But the most interesting aspect to me would have been Luke and Anakin having similar journey’s that ended up in a different place. Lucas failed in executing that. Anakin’s turn and his friendship with Obi-Wan are completely bungled, rushed or skipped over. The Opera scene was interesting, that is a seduction to power and evil. But the whole join the dark side to save Padme doesn’t work. Not sure what other answer to Anakin’s turn Lucas could have done. But it should have been like what was described in the OT, and the return of the jedi novelization.

I definitely would agree with that. Like I said, the prequels are in desperate need of simplification. The focal point of this story feels like it should be Anakin and how he’s a good honest person that gets manipulated by the Dark Side but the movies focus so much on setting up other elements, at times pointless side-quests and overdoes it on Anakin being such a good person before he turns that it means his evil switch has to be flipped to 100 real quick to where it’s almost unnatural.

I always thought it was weird that Anakin required no proof from Palpatine for him just to jump to Sith and start killing everyone in the name of saving one person in his life. Selfishness isn’t really being “manipulated”. If only George had written in a moment where Palps showed some sort of healing effect from his power it would have been more believable to “click” something in Anakins brain. He just drops to his knees in weak desperation based on a claim from someone who turned into Freddy Krueger.

And even though he had conflict with Mace there was no reason why he would hate EVERY SINGLE Jedi monk and the innocent padawans. When he says “From my point of view the Jedi are evil” it has no base to it. There’s plenty of reasons why I consider ROTS just as convoluted as TROS, but it would have been saved if there was a compelling, relatable dilemma for Anakins turn. Oh well.

I don’t think my opinion of Ep I has changed much over the years. I loved it in 99 and I still do. I am not a fan of the longer pod race. I think that wrecks the flow of the film so I like the original cut, but I do like CG Yoda to match the other two films. I never did object to Jar Jar or the Gungans. I thought it was a brilliant piece of world building by Lucas. And face it, Threepio was pretty comic in the OT.

AOTC has issues. I think this one could have been done so much better. I think Lucas took his time on Ep I and on Ep II he brought on a co-writer and it bombed. And Lucas’s attempt at comic relief with Threepio and the battle droid switching heads is the most horrible sequence in all the films. It is on part with Harvey Corman’s alien chief in the Holiday Special. This should have been a film where you see the friend relationship between Anakin and Obi-wan. Anakin’s fall would have been that much more bittersweet if Obi-wan was too much of a friend and that is why he failed to teach Anakin. That argument in Padme’s apartment just derails their whole relationship. The story outside that is fine. But that is enough that I rate AOTC 8 out of 9 in the Saga.

I think the flaw in ROTS is subtlety. Too much of it. After a lot of views and a lot of contemplation I can see the depths of the story, but it is just so … unexplained on the surface that it draws it down. But the subtlety here started in Ep I. So he was at least consistent. But there were things he did that could have been more obvious that would have gotten a better audience reaction. I feel that Palaptine used the dark side to unwillingly turn Anakin once he was vulnerable. I think Palaptine sucked the life force from Padme so she would die to cement Vader’s turn. And I think that Palpatine used the force to keep Vader alive. Possibly all along, but definitely from Mustafar to Coruscant.

I think the biggest flaw of the prequels stems from the success of the OT. No one wanted to direct a Star Wars film and no one wanted to give Lucas any constructive feedback on his scripts. I think those things are where the negative comes from and disguises the same genius who gave us the OT.

screams in the void said:

yotsuya said:

And face it, Threepio was pretty comic in the OT.

Face it , Threepio’s comedy in the OT was actually funny and played off the other characters in service of the story .The prequels had him resorting to bad puns and quips …" I’m beside myself ." " This is such a drag . " , " What do you mean naked ? My parts are showing ? Oh my !" etc I did like some of the early episodes of Clone Wars where Threepio was teamed up with Jar Jar though , as he was annoying ,even to Threepio . I felt that show handled Jar Jar better than the films overall .

I felt Jar Jar’s humor fit with the story. And yes, Threepio in AOTC was really bad. Several of those things you quoted are from the head switch sequence. Take that out and the rest of his lines fit with the OT, but those are as way off as the sequence they are in.

Marioer said:

Three of the best movies ever made.

Oh totally…🙄🙄

SparkySywer said:

All three of them have higher highs and way more interesting stuff than TCW

I disagree. Seasons 6-7 of the clone wars had incredible highs and depth not found in the films

Fan_edit_fan said:

AspiringCreator said:

JadedSkywalker said:

I disagree on one hand Threepio being built by Anakin stretches canon to its breaking point. On the other its funny that Anakin become Vader more machine than man and Threepio is very human like, a robot he built. Just like even though it breaks canon Vader being born at the same time Padme dies is a very powerful visual. Its like Lucas was being too clever.

That’s fair, I will say even that I am one of those people that normally won’t care if something breaks canon a little if I like the storytelling and themes at play though with Anakin and Threepio, I feel like even with that comparison it’s mostly bandages at best for what is pretty decently big wound. There are bigger issues though that I’m willing to concede to.

JadedSkywalker said:

But i don’t by the poetry it rhymes stuff. Or whatever some fan created online to describe the movies. There is visual symmetry and continuity, almost accidentally at times due to Lucas recycling ideas. But the most interesting aspect to me would have been Luke and Anakin having similar journey’s that ended up in a different place. Lucas failed in executing that. Anakin’s turn and his friendship with Obi-Wan are completely bungled, rushed or skipped over. The Opera scene was interesting, that is a seduction to power and evil. But the whole join the dark side to save Padme doesn’t work. Not sure what other answer to Anakin’s turn Lucas could have done. But it should have been like what was described in the OT, and the return of the jedi novelization.

I definitely would agree with that. Like I said, the prequels are in desperate need of simplification. The focal point of this story feels like it should be Anakin and how he’s a good honest person that gets manipulated by the Dark Side but the movies focus so much on setting up other elements, at times pointless side-quests and overdoes it on Anakin being such a good person before he turns that it means his evil switch has to be flipped to 100 real quick to where it’s almost unnatural.

I always thought it was weird that Anakin required no proof from Palpatine for him just to jump to Sith and start killing everyone in the name of saving one person in his life. Selfishness isn’t really being “manipulated”. If only George had written in a moment where Palps showed some sort of healing effect from his power it would have been more believable to “click” something in Anakins brain. He just drops to his knees in weak desperation based on a claim from someone who turned into Freddy Krueger.

And even though he had conflict with Mace there was no reason why he would hate EVERY SINGLE Jedi monk and the innocent padawans. When he says “From my point of view the Jedi are evil” it has no base to it. There’s plenty of reasons why I consider ROTS just as convoluted as TROS, but it would have been saved if there was a compelling, relatable dilemma for Anakins turn. Oh well.

The weirdest part about it is the selfishness aspect would be compelling in of itself. I mean humans in general are no stranger to being selfish for what could be argued to be totally justified and understandable reasons such as love so Anakin there would be fairly relatable minus the fact he’s a space wizard. Like let’s say after the nightmares, he didn’t get interested in the Dark Side because of Palpatine but rather he started thinking about what the Force could do and he starts looking into it himself and that especially catches his attention but then that’s getting into rewriting territory. It really is such a shame the prequels basically require TCW or the EU, which should’ve just been able to be fun side-content, for Anakin’s fall to function properly.

It is poorly executed. But the idea is the Jedi lost by fighting the war in the first place it corrupted them. And Anakin sees them breaking their oaths and codes just like Palpatine warned him they would. Was he wrong that the Jedi feared to lose power, not in the way the Jedi are portrayed in those films. Everything they do is because they are manipulated by fear, pawns on the chessboard of Sidious.

Anakin is manipulated by the fear of loss. Because he lost his mother. Because he didn’t want to lose Padme. And the Jedi tell him to let go of his fear and let her die. Or at least that is the gist of what Yoda said. Its greedy to love someone so possessively says Lucas. That is Anakin’s fault. Its all so humdrum and laughably inarticulate.

JadedSkywalker said:

It is poorly executed. But the idea is the Jedi lost by fighting the war in the first place it corrupted them. And Anakin sees them breaking their oaths and codes just like Palpatine warned him they would. Was he wrong that the Jedi feared to lose power, not in the way the Jedi are portrayed in those films. Everything they do is because they are manipulated by fear, pawns on the chessboard of Sidious.

Anakin is manipulated by the fear of loss. Because he lost his mother. Because he didn’t want to lose Padme. And the Jedi tell him to let go of his fear and let her die. Or at least that is the gist of what Yoda said. Its greedy to love someone so possessively says Lucas. That is Anakin’s fault. Its all so humdrum and laughably inarticulate.

I don’t think that is what Lucas is saying. I see everything in the PT as pointing to the Jedi being corrupted by their opposition to the Sith. They have shunned everything that might lead down that path. That includes teaching young students like Anakin how to deal with the temptation. Their answer is don’t. No instructions on how, just don’t do it. Those are stupid instructions. Had Qui-gon Jinn lived to train Anakin, he would have had a chance. But Obi-wan was not as wise and did not see how to teach that lesson. Yoda said fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering and suffering leads to the dark side. He did not say how to deal with fear so that it does not become anger. Or any of the other steps. So we watch Anakin as his fear in Ep I becomes anger in Ep II, which becomes hate in Ep III and finally suffering at the end of Ep III. And the fact the Palpatine has been his mentor all those years doesn’t help matters.

Had Qui-gon Jinn lived to train Anakin, he would have had a chance.

We never hear Qui-gon say or show that he’s against the no-attachment rule. That’s just fan conjecture. I’m still not convinced that Lucas viewed the Jedi’s rules on attachment as an unhealthy thing.

Servii said:

Had Qui-gon Jinn lived to train Anakin, he would have had a chance.

We never hear Qui-gon say or show that he’s against the no-attachment rule. That’s just fan conjecture. I’m still not convinced that Lucas viewed the Jedi’s rules on attachment as an unhealthy thing.

We know that Qui-gon often went against the council. So he was a bit of a rebel. He may have been able to teach Anakin to handle his attachment issues. I agree that Lucas included a subtle feeling that the Jedi rules on attachment were wrong, but there is nothing specific. But he did tell Dave Filoni that had Qui-gon lived, Anakin wouldn’t have turned to the dark side. The light saber battle in TPM is about Anakin’s fate. Qui-gon died and with him the chance for Anakin to stay on the light side.