I didn’t post that, but whatever.
Good point. I apologize. A consequence of poor quote-tree editing on my part.
Because Luke being Vader’s son is the most contrived thing in all of Star Wars.
According to the original 1980 timeline, it’s not contrived at all. Admittedly, it becomes contrived with the ROTJ timeline and then becomes absurdly contrived with the prequel timelines.
Of course it’s contrived in 1980. In ANH, Vader just happens to chase Leia to the planet where his son and her brother lives, and he just happens to take possession of his sister’s droids, one of which just happens to be carrying the stolen plans his father is trying to retrieve?
You aren’t being consistent in your complaints.
I guess it’s not, because he liked ESB. So auto-not contrived. If he doesn’t like a movie already then being contrived is somehow bad.
TV’s Frink said:
[…]
Of course it’s contrived in 1980. In ANH, Vader just happens to chase Leia to the planet where his son and her brother lives, and he just happens to take possession of his sister’s droids, one of which just happens to be carrying the stolen plans his father is trying to retrieve?
[…]
Not that I want to interfere or nitpick, but Leia wasn’t Luke’s sister yet in 1980.
The Original Trilogy’s Timeline Reconstruction: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Implied-starting-date-of-the-Empire-from-OT-dialogue/post/786201/#TopicPost786201
And vader wasn’t lukes father in ANH.
TV’s Frink said:
[…]
Of course it’s contrived in 1980. In ANH, Vader just happens to chase Leia to the planet where his son and her brother lives, and he just happens to take possession of his sister’s droids, one of which just happens to be carrying the stolen plans his father is trying to retrieve?
[…]Not that I want to interfere or nitpick, but Leia wasn’t Luke’s sister yet in 1980.
True, although it was hinted at. Point still stands…and double so if he likes ROTJ. It’s a hell of a lot more important than sand or a jacket.
Hinted? Are you sure? 😄
The Original Trilogy’s Timeline Reconstruction: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Implied-starting-date-of-the-Empire-from-OT-dialogue/post/786201/#TopicPost786201
Of course it’s contrived in 1980. In ANH, Vader just happens to chase Leia to the planet where his son and her brother lives, and he just happens to take possession of his sister’s droids, one of which just happens to be carrying the stolen plans his father is trying to retrieve?
No. Leia is going to Tatooine because that’s where Obi-Wan is located. She’s not just passing through the neighborhood by coincidence.
Hinted? Are you sure? 😄
Some how we always knew this would happen… From a certain point of view.
Of course it’s contrived in 1980.
No, it is not.
In ANH, Vader just happens to chase Leia to the planet where his son and her brother lives…
Leia was not Luke’s sister in 1980.
and he just happens to take possession of his sister’s droids…
See above.
one of which just happens to be carrying the stolen plans his father is trying to retrieve?
Yes. According to the original storyline (forget the prequel sh!t), Obi Wan took Luke to Tatooine to live with his brother, Owen Lars. Obi Wan remained on Tatooine and lived nearby, often checking in on Luke as Luke was growing up and oftentimes coming to Luke’s aid when Luke got into trouble.
So, these are the key takeaways from this so far: Obi Wan had a small boy to care for. He logically took the boy to his brother and his wife, so that Luke could have a mother and father figure. Tatooine is a remote, dead, completely unimportant planet that virtually no one knows about and no one cares about. Perfect place for Obi Wan to go into hiding. And the perfect remote, hidden, unknown place for Luke to grow up.
Leia programmed R2 to deliver the plans to Obi Wan. She gave R2 the rough coordinates to Obi Wan’s home. R2 was on his way to deliver the plans directly to Obi Wan when he was caught by Jawas, who then sold R2 to Owen and Luke, who happened to live right there in the neighborhood.
Perfectly plausible story.
Admittedly, the story gets contrived with ROTJ and then goes to complete sh!t with the prequels.
You aren’t being consistent in your complaints.
As you can see above, I am.
Of course it’s contrived in 1980.
No, it is not.
In ANH, Vader just happens to chase Leia to the planet where his son and her brother lives…
Leia was not Luke’s sister in 1980.
and he just happens to take possession of his sister’s droids…
See above.
one of which just happens to be carrying the stolen plans his father is trying to retrieve?
Yes. According to the original storyline (forget the prequel sh!t), Obi Wan took Luke to Tatooine to live with his brother, Owen Lars. Obi Wan remained on Tatooine and lived nearby, often checking in on Luke as Luke was growing up and oftentimes coming to Luke’s aid when Luke got into trouble.
So, these are the key takeaways from this so far: Obi Wan had a small boy to care for. He logically took the boy to his brother and his wife, so that Luke could have a mother and father figure. Tatooine is a remote, dead, completely unimportant planet that virtually no one knows about and no one cares about. Perfect place for Obi Wan to go into hiding. And the perfect remote, hidden, unknown place for Luke to grow up.
Leia programmed R2 to deliver the plans to Obi Wan. She gave R2 the rough coordinates to Obi Wan’s home. R2 was on his way to deliver the plans directly to Obi Wan when he was caught by Jawas, who then sold R2 to Owen and Luke, who happened to live right there in the neighborhood.
Perfectly plausible story.
Admittedly, the story gets contrived with ROTJ and then goes to complete sh!t with the prequels.
Wait… What? So Owen was Obi-Wan’s brother? I don’t remember that from the movie.
Wait… What? So Owen was Obi-Wan’s brother? I don’t remember that from the movie.
It’s in the original ROTJ script and in the original ROTJ novelization.
And luke didn’t seem to already know Ben/Obiwan in ANH. Let alone “often come to his aid”
Wait… What? So Owen was Obi-Wan’s brother? I don’t remember that from the movie.
It’s in the original ROTJ script and in the original ROTJ novelization.
That’s wonderful… I thought we were discussing the films here and not early drafts of the script or novels.
That’s wonderful… I thought we were discussing the films here and not early drafts of the script or novels.
Sorry. I was discussing the original canon, not just the movies. Is there a rule here on this board that discussion is to be confined to only the movies?
I didn’t post that, but whatever.
Anyway, even if it is contrived, so what? Did you like ESB? Because Luke being Vader’s son is the most contrived thing in all of Star Wars. And that doesn’t make it a bad movie at all.
I was watching a show called The Evolution of the Lightsaber Duel recently and mark hamill said darth vader was originally supposed to say “obi wan killed your father” but they changed the line to say “I am your father” unbeknownst to hamill. Just thought that was an interesting aside.
I enjoyed the movie. I just wish we had more info on what happened in the last 30 years, more back story as to what happened to the characters over all these years. Hoping they flesh that out more in upcoming movies.
Padme
That’s wonderful… I thought we were discussing the films here and not early drafts of the script or novels.
Sorry. I was discussing the original canon, not just the movies. Is there a rule here on this board that discussion is to be confined to only the movies?
So you’re ignoring ROTJ Luke and Leia but defending your position with a ROTJ script and novel.
Furthermore, if you are going to allow scripts and novels in order to defend your position, you better check those for TFA as well.
Yeah, you’re quite consistent.
So you’re ignoring ROTJ Luke and Leia but defending your position with a ROTJ script and novel.
I’ve already conceded that the ROTJ timeline – particularly the tripe about Leia being Luke’s brother and the Emperor knowing that Luke is Vader’s son – is contrived.
I’m not defending my position – I’m just explaining that the TESB has a plausible story. Granted, you make a good point that the evidence that Luke was brought to Tatooine by Obi Wan and given to his brother is out of the ROTJ script, but even without that, it’s still perfectly plausible: Luke grew up on Tatooine under adoptive parents that may or may not have been his blood relatives. Obi Wan took up residence nearby to watch over Luke.
The “watching over” part is out of the original “Star Wars” radio drama and might be referenced in the novel. I could be wrong about the novel part, as my memory is sketchy on that. Either way, the radio dramas are/were considered original G-canon.
Furthermore, if you are going to allow scripts and novels in order to defend your position, you better check those for TFA as well.
My critiques of TFA are of stuff I saw on the screen. I don’t need any more supporting documentation because I’m referring to what was presented on screen. In our discussion of Luke’s background and the TESB timeline, a lot of the backstory is not stated on screen and left open, so it’s helpful to go to supporting canon documentation to fill in those gaps.
Even so, in my defense, I was the one who went to the now-canonical “Before the Awakening” book (or whatever it’s called) to offer up the story about how Rey found a flight simulator to explain how she can fly the MF.
Yeah, you’re quite consistent.
Ad hominem - an argument directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.
Again, you are arguing on-screen only in one case and allowing off-screen in another.
But you aren’t inconsistent, your arguments are. Does that satisfy your ridiculous ad hom claim?
Again, you are arguing on-screen only in one case and allowing off-screen in another.
But you aren’t inconsistent, your arguments are.
Deductive Fallacy is a deductive argument that is invalid. The argument itself could have true premises, but still have a false conclusion. Thus, a deductive fallacy is a fallacy where deduction goes wrong, and is no longer a logical process.
Lol, you are amazing. And not in a good way.
If you are bringing up examples of things in TFA that take you out of the film and are beyond the limits of what you think if acceptable in a fantasy film, then there are quite a few more blatant examples besides the sand thing, lol. I had no problems with anything on Jakku.
I didnt like how Chewie walked right past Leia after returning from their mission where Han dies. Are they strangers?
He’s still bitter because he didn’t get a medal.
The Original Trilogy’s Timeline Reconstruction: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Implied-starting-date-of-the-Empire-from-OT-dialogue/post/786201/#TopicPost786201
They had a secret love affair for quite some time. It all fell apart after some rather compromising images were leaked by the First Order for propaganda purposes…
Where were you in '77?