What didn't you like about TFA? SPOILERS — Page 4

Bingowings said:
As you know I was indifferent to the film but the creature design didn’t worry me. In the first film we had Luke attacked by rubber tentacles. Personally I find the dianoga far more problematic.

Why do you find the dianoga more problematic? The creature was hardly shown, as it was almost entirely underwater, which added to the mysteriousness of its threat. Luke got taken under in believable fashion, and the whole film stopped to concentrate on that dramatic moment. Dramatic pacing. The way Luke escaped was believable, the trash compactor started running, and the monster took off to escape. Finally, when Luke resurfaced, he was in obvious physical discomfort, having very nearly drowned. He was wet and he had dirt all over him. He was spitting water and grime out of his mouth. It was all very believable to me.

On the other hand, in TFA they went to great pains to show the entire rathtar on camera, which only invites more scrutiny to its physical appearance. The monsters weren’t there to put our heroes in danger … no, the rathtars were released to save our heroes dues-ex-machina style. The way Finn got away was not believable at all, it was just downright silly and eye-rolling. And when he got picked up, of course, he was being dragged around the ship at very high speeds. In the real world (and I would argue in the world of the OT), his body (and head) would have been slamming against the metal walls and floor and anything jutting out from them, causing serious bodily injury or death. But in the world of TFA, he was just fine. Not a blemish. Thanks Rey!

I find it problematic because its rubber tentacles. It’s where I am yanked out of a galaxy far far away and forced to be in an Ed Wood movie for five minutes. I’m also surprised that the bit George fiddled with in the special editions was the totally fine eye stalk and not the terrible tentacles in all their horrid crappiness.

Jay said:
Be careful with racial discussions, please. It’s really easy for that to veer off into a bad place. There’s no reason to assume Boyega was cast in the part other than they felt he was good for the role.

I wasn’t saying there was anything wrong with his character being in the film. My point was that there wasn’t any more substance to his character. He was flat, just a plot device and an idea on paper. He seemed unnecessarily placed in the film.

Lando on the other hand had such an interesting and fully fleshed out personality. I feel like if I met Lando Calrissian in a card room tomorrow night, I would know exactly how he would act and what he might say. His character is that tangible and familiar. His race was completely irrelevant, and the fact that they just happened to cast a black man who played the role terrifically is absolutely fine with me.

Jay said:
I would prefer this type of speculation be left out of the discussion, please.

You’re right, the conversation can go to a dangerous place pretty quickly. Perhaps I should have just kept it at “stormtrooper turned good guy” and left the racial component out of it.

My point was that his character was more of an idea than anything else.

SilverWook said:

As the Resistance X wings are practically Ralph McQuarrie’s concept painting of them come to life, I have no issues with them.

That’s exactly the problem I have with them. I don’t regard McQuarrie as a great designer but as a great concept artist. I believe the workflow of the designing process by the OT era was Ralph making a concept, GL aproving it, and the guys at ILM making a final version with some modifications which made it “technically” feasible. In the case of the X Wing, the idea of an engine split it too doesn’t really feel good to my gut. It could be four-engined as it was in the OT, or with two engines and the S-foils opening after the exterior line of the engines, which would remain whole.

At some things like this, I feel a little condescended as a fan. Like “see how faithful we are to the OT? we’re making real the original designs of McQuarrie, be happy”, while most of Ralph designs aren’t actually conclussive on theirselves without the part of materiality that was imported by ILM’s input. The DeathStar feels heavy on the final film while it was light in the design. Bubbleheaded star destroyers, Stormtroopers, Vader, etc.

The interior of the Starkiller did remind me of levels in the old Dark Forces/Jedi Outcast games. I half expected Kyle Katarn to show up.

It was expressionistic to me. Like with chiaroscuros. Han’s death matte painting was straight out of GianBattista Piranesi’s chiaroscuros.

Lest we forget, Vader himself has roots in old cliffhanger serial villains who are merely a guy in a scary mask disguising their voice.

Yet somehow those villains weren’t nearly as succesfuls as Vader. And if get it right, nor will be Kylo.

Not so subtle WWII imagery is nothing new in Star Wars either.

Trouble it’s that the reference is so obvious it gets you out of the movie.

Bingowings said:

I find it problematic because its rubber tentacles. It’s where I am yanked out of a galaxy far far away and forced to be in an Ed Wood movie for five minutes. I’m also surprised that the bit George fiddled with in the special editions was the totally fine eye stalk and not the terrible tentacles in all their horrid crappiness.

Fair enough. They never seemed to bother me though. I think they look more realistic than the CGI monsters.

The other stuff that I mentioned in those scenes is what stands out to me more.

Don’t you think he would have AIMED for the soft spot in the desert? If I was crashing I would think that’s a good idea. It’ll break your fall. People should be commending that pilot for his ingenuity, not slamming JJ Abrahms.

I went to see it again, and I hate it even more…I’m OUT. There will only ever be 3 star wars films! The end!

Protocol Droid said:

Smoking Lizard,

I don’t have a problem with you not liking many aspects of the film. I have a few of the same gripes as well, but the problem with some of your posts is that after saying what you didn’t like, you really don’t explain ‘why’ you don’t like them.

That’s because it should be intuitive why I don’t like them.

WHY don’t you like 2-seater TIE fighters?

Because it’s contrived. It’s overly convenient just to move the poorly written story along, that’s why. We need a spaceship…let’s take a TIE fighter…because that would be so COOL!

So you don’t like the quicksand explanation. Why? Is quicksand impossible?

In an arid desert, yes, quicksand is impossible. The concept of “dry quicksand” has never been demonstrated to exist in nature. Real quicksand, the stuff that occurs naturally, requires lots of water. Here’s a great video demonstrating what quicksand really is:

https://youtu.be/JHCW_bqWLTo

But hey, it’s a movie. Check your brain at the door, I guess. Movies aren’t supposed to make sense.

Wait…what?

Also, some of your gripes are either snarky or sarcastic to the point which makes me wonder if you even liked the film at all?

And you’d be right about this! Out of four stars, I give TFA half a star. And that’s only for Daisy Ridley’s performance. Everything else was really, really bad. At least as bad as the prequels.

WHY is this a problem? BB-8 Knows this is his master’s jacket. He is a droid and has a perfect memory of every detail of the jacket. Rey mistakes Finn is a thief or some kind of bad guy and stops him. Why is this a problem?

Because she smashed him in the face with a blunt weapon?!? Imagine a friend tells you that a guy over there is wearing his friend’s jacket. Would you go over and smash him in the face?!? No! You would say, “Pardon me, may I speak with you a moment? Can you tell me where you got that jacket?”

And let’s not even bother asking the obvious elephant-in-the-room question: Why did Finn even put the stupid jacket on to begin with…on the surface of an arid desert?! Sentimental reasons? Because he wanted to have something to remember Poe by? He was feeling sentimental about a guy he’d met 10 minutes earlier, so let’s put on his jacket and risk dying from heat stroke in an arid desert!

Get it? The reason why Finn put on the jacket wasn’t for a logical reason in the movie’s universe; he put it on because BB-8 needed some way to recognize him. That’s the very definition of contrived.

“Oh no! The First Order is on to us! They’re chasing us!”
Again, WHY is this a problem for you? The First Order is trying to capture a droid and a traitor. They will be chasing them…what were they supposed to do?

Because, again, it’s contrived. Finn has made it perfectly clear that the First Order is looking specifically for BB-8 with a perfect description of what the droid looks like. Yet they make no effort whatsoever at hiding him? Heck, we know the First Order is looking specifically for BB-8 and have an exact description of him. Let’s take him into Maz Kanata’s really, really crowded bar, packed full of sketchy characters who might just be First Order informants!

Guys, it’s sloppy, slapdash, juvenile writing, as if the script was written by an 11-year-old.

Smoking Lizard said:
And let’s not even bother asking the obvious elephant-in-the-room question: Why did Finn even put the stupid jacket on to begin with…on the surface of an arid desert?! Sentimental reasons? Because he wanted to have something to remember Poe by? He was feeling sentimental about a guy he’d met 10 minutes earlier, so let’s put on his jacket and risk dying from heat stroke in an arid desert!

Get it? The reason why Finn put on the jacket wasn’t for a logical reason in the movie’s universe; he put it on because BB-8 needed some way to recognize him. That’s the very definition of contrived.

Brilliant. Haha

Smoking Lizard said:
Finn has made it perfectly clear that the First Order is looking specifically for BB-8 with a perfect description of what the droid looks like. Yet they make no effort whatsoever at hiding him? Heck, we know the First Order is looking specifically for BB-8 and have an exact description of him. Let’s take him into Maz Kanata’s really, really crowded bar, packed full of sketchy characters who might just be First Order informants!

Guys, it’s sloppy, slapdash, juvenile writing, as if the script was written by an 11-year-old.

Again, just a brutal takedown. Could have left the droid in the Falcon.

Well done.

Why would there even be a map to locate Luke if he’s gone into hiding>? Plus don’t Force sensitive folk ‘sense’ each other and talk to each other remotely as seen in the OT.

Leia: “Han, bring our son Ren home!”

Yes. Please do. To face multiple counts of mass murder, genocide, and other egregious crimes against humanity. And then be found guilty and be executed by lethal injection.

Hey! Check it out! It’s the new Darth Vader with the guy from KISS!

“That’s because it should be intuitive why I don’t like them.”

Since liking or not liking the film is an opinion, it may not be intuitive to people reading your post. Your explanation helps. Also, I see you did get around to posting why you did not like certain (or all) of the scenes in the film. Excellent!

The overarching of your criticisms is that the plot points are contrived. Of course they are. The whole film is contrived. Most films are. However, there are better ways to move the plot forward.

I am not bashing you.

I look forward to more of your detailed analysis.

Alderaan said:

Smoking Lizard said:
Finn has made it perfectly clear that the First Order is looking specifically for BB-8 with a perfect description of what the droid looks like. Yet they make no effort whatsoever at hiding him? Heck, we know the First Order is looking specifically for BB-8 and have an exact description of him. Let’s take him into Maz Kanata’s really, really crowded bar, packed full of sketchy characters who might just be First Order informants!

Guys, it’s sloppy, slapdash, juvenile writing, as if the script was written by an 11-year-old.

Again, just a brutal takedown. Could have left the droid in the Falcon.

Well done.

Right… and just letting the wanted droids with the Death Star plans wander around Mos Eisley on their own when they were just approached by Stormtroopers moments ago made perfect sense. I guess it was more important for Luke to sit down and order a drink.

Protocol Droid said:

The whole film is contrived. Most films are.

I have to respectfully strongly beg to differ with you on this point. There are plenty of movies that involve fantasy elements that are not contrived.

The original Star Wars, sans the ridiculous prequel-imposed timeline and prequel-imposed revised backstory, is a perfect example of a film that is not contrived. The same can be said about TESB.

Smoking Lizard said:

Leia: “Han, bring our son Ren home!”

Yes. Please do. To face multiple counts of mass murder, genocide, and other egregious crimes against humanity. And then be found guilty and be executed by lethal injection.

That’s why it was lucky for her that Dad Vader died in ROTJ, chucking an old man down a well doesn’t make up for all them murders he done. 'specially the kiddies.
They really are a cursed family. Padme is strangely attracted to an unobtainable warrior monk that openly confesses to killing kids, he kills more kids and tries to strangle her while she is pregnant. And this is a whole generation before Leia’s son goes boiyoiyoing.

Bosk said:

Why would there even be a map to locate Luke if he’s gone into hiding>? Plus don’t Force sensitive folk ‘sense’ each other and talk to each other remotely as seen in the OT.

Depends Obi-Wan, Luke, Leia and Vader all get Force hunches but the entire Jedi council don’t see Palpatine coming and Palpatine doesn’t quite read the situation between Luke and Vader fully. I guess the map is just a prediction based on known sightings and the final bit of the jigsaw leads to his final destination. I doubt if it was drawn up by Luke like a business card.

Smoking Lizard said:

Protocol Droid said:

So you don’t like the quicksand explanation. Why? Is quicksand impossible?

In an arid desert, yes, quicksand is impossible. The concept of “dry quicksand” has never been demonstrated to exist in nature. Real quicksand, the stuff that occurs naturally, requires lots of water. Here’s a great video demonstrating what quicksand really is:

https://youtu.be/JHCW_bqWLTo

But hey, it’s a movie. Check your brain at the door, I guess. Movies aren’t supposed to make sense.

Wait…what?

Right, because The Force, hyperspace, lightsabers, aliens that live for hundreds of years, blasters, space stations that can blow up a planet, and walking carpets have all been demonstrated to exist in nature.

Lifeforms on your Earth can live for many hundreds of years (Frink’s mom joke in 5…4…3…2…1…)

The quicksand scene is yet another Dune ‘homage’, It’s a spice blow or maybe an attacking worm… either make more sense in that book than this film. (ditto)