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What can Be done to save the real original star wars trilogy from 1977-1983?

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I know Lucas hates the movies in their original form, but what about putting them out there in good quality for  the fans in  a modern animorphic transfer?

I do not understand this bs artistic stance that the originals no longer exist and we therefore got them in laserdisc Master dumps in 2006.

I also don't understand his treatment of the fans who made him the billionaire he is today.

He owes the fans at least a good transfer of the original versions of the films, maybe not legally but you could argue morally.

Why does he torment the fans who loved star wars so much that at first they were willing to forgive the prequels and the special editions, until he announced his intentions to bury the originals forever indirectly.

It is Lucas loss and a tarnishment of his legacy he does not have the original versions of the films that made him a household name on Blu RAY.

I'm at the point that i should say screw it, let lucas be left behind there are plenty of other worthy films on dvd and blu ray getting transfers to keep film fanatics happy.

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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This is an age old, relentlessly discussed issue - why the new thread?

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Why not the new thread? Afraid it will get in the way of all the other amazing discussion that goes on in this corner of the forum?

 

Anyway, sky knows it is age old and relentlessly discussed, at ot.com he has always been a primary participant in these discussions. I think every know and then the realization of just how ridiculous this whole situation is catches up to sky and he has to post about it to vent.

I'm at the point that i should say screw it, let lucas be left behind there are plenty of other worthy films on dvd and blu ray getting transfers to keep film fanatics happy.

 

 

Way ahead of you buddy. I really don't even care anymore myself. If GL doesn't want me to watch what is quite literally his masterpiece, as well as three of the very few decent movies he has ever been involved in, in high quality then so be it. Screw him. Took me a couple of years to be bothered with picking up cheap used copies of the GOUT. Even if by some miracle it ever was released in full quality blu-ray, I'd probably do the same thing and not bother buying it until I could get it dirt cheap. So sick of trying to fight to see Star Wars in watchable quality, I don't even really care much about it anymore.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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Am trying myself to get cheap GOUT copies. Other than that I'll wait for a 97SE restoration and the eventual blu release. However if that is the 04's only, I will give up.

If GL doesn't care about the 97SE at all: then what exactly happened to all the 35mm prints? Are they just sitting in some Fox vault?

VADER!? WHERE THE HELL IS MY MOCHA LATTE? -Palpy on a very bad day.

“George didn’t think there was any future in dead Han toys.”-Harrison Ford

My review blog: thehificelluloidmonster.wordpress.com

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captainsolo said:

Am trying myself to get cheap GOUT copies.

At amazon you can find used copies for around $5 - 7 USD each plus $3 for shipping, which ends up being about ten or under for each movie. Not the cheapest, but not too bad either.

If you want to gain some of your money back, each of these are two disc sets, containing both the "bonus disc" and the 2004 SEs. Just take the 2004 SE disc out of each set (keeping the GOUT which is on the bonus discs for yourself), relist them as the 2004 single discs version on the amazon marketplace for a few pennies under what everyone else is selling the 2004 version of each movie for and specify that they don't come with the original case. Not sure what you'd get for them, probably a few bucks anyway, but that is a few more dollars off the price of your GOUT. I imagine you could probably score the entire GOUT for about $20 or less this way.

That said, the GOUT is a pretty freakin' worthless set anyway.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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I've said it before, but it really comes down to which emotion Lucas feels the strongest. His hatred for the earlier 'flawed' films or his desire to make money. 

Once he gets to the point where a high quality remastered set of the trilogy on its original form is the last hope to make money, after he has saturated the market with release after release after release of his 'souped-up' special editions no longer makes money and the public is once again sick of all things star wars (remember 1985, anyone?) then I think he will have to relent and tap the last remaining fanbase who are holding out for bluray or what ever is acceptable at the time.

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I remember 1985, and I wasn't sick of Star Wars then. Jedi wasn't even on video yet! ;)

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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I had a great letterboxed bootleg of it though! Now 25 years later I have an official dvd of Jedi that looks slightly better. Way to push the envelope of quality into the bold new millennium, LFL!

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skyjedi2005 said:

Why does he torment the fans who loved star wars so much that at first they were willing to forgive the prequels and the special editions, until he announced his intentions to bury the originals forever indirectly.

 

This is by far my biggest gripe with the whole GOUT issue. I would've preferred nothing over the middle finger he gave us.

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Me, I would have taken the GOUT. 

We can do nothing; we just have to live with the scars.

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Too bad star wars is still under copyright.  If it was public domain the fans could undertake a donate money approach and have a new telecine done from a print like the one in the national achives of film, in the library of congress.

Or a company that does not want to spend the money or resources could have a donate money thing set up like Robert Harris has done for the 70mm roadshow version of the Alamo.

All Lucasfilm would have to do is give Harris access to the film and other misc items needed for a restoration and then he could get the public and film fans to pay for it since a billionaire like lucas won't do so even though he is supposedly a member of a foundation for the preservation of motion pictures and a member of the board,lol.

It seems to me an artists rights are in conflict with the historical preservation of these classic films.  Why can't Lucas do both? He makes his fans happy and gets to continue to tinker with the films to his hearts delight.

Sounds to me a logical alternative, and everybody wins in that scenario.  He gets to put his directors finished cut out there, and the originals are saved from the destruction of time as the negatives rot in the LFL archives.

I mean it seems to reason that he would have had a new negative made from the restoration in 1997 before the cgi was done, which would be able to be used in making a new home video release of the originals and make the films viable for theatrical exhibition.

 

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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skyjedi2005 said:

It seems to me an artists rights are in conflict with the historical preservation of these classic films.  Why can't Lucas do both?

Oh, the irony...

With Martin Scorsese and other filmmakers, Lucas also continues to lead the fight for film preservation. "It's amazing," he says, "that you have to fight the studios to get them to preserve their films. . . . Parts of 'Dr. Strangelove' are gone; some of the music is lost. Kubrick is having to photograph individual frames to create a new fine-grain negative. That's madness, tragic madness."

from The Home Audience Is Listening - Technology: George Lucas' THX sound system

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What can be done? Don't buy any new releases of Star Wars unless they contain the originals. And if the eventual blu-ray set doesn't have the original films, write a negative review on amazon.

But I'm worried. I'm afraid too many people will be happy to see Star Wars in any form on blu-ray that they won't care that it's yet another tamperered with version yet still has the same color and sound issues from 2004. Many online review sites (like the Digital Bits) gave the 2004 set high marks for the picture quality. I hate to tell sites what to write but I think there needs to be more effort to show that the 2004 versions from a technical standpoint (ignoring the issue of all the changes) were still an abomination.

Adywan's revisted is a good chance to show examples of since he did an amazing job with color correction. There need to be more examples like this split screen video that show how screwed up the dvd's were. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=coypgsWo4Rg

There have been various posts and examples all over the internet about the terrible 2004 quality. But it would be nice to have it all in one organized place. Similar to the screenshot page here but for all three movies and only with the best transfers from each video release. (no need to see 5 different laserdisc transfers from the same '93 set)

My suggestion would be:

pre THX Special Collection

gout

'97 special edition

2004

adywan color corrected 2004

Take back the trilogy. Execute Order '77

http://www.youtube.com/user/Knightmessenger

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Yeah, I can't believe how many reputable reviewers gave glowing reviews to the '04 set. Lowry did a great job with the scanning and grain removal, but the colors were obviously way off and the transfers were way too dark.....and then there's the sound issues.

I can only speak for myself, but I won't be buying the SE on blu-ray.

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Yeah, I won't be doing that either Mielr. I second the idea of avoiding all future Star Wars trilogy releases unless it is the OOT done justice. I'm one of the ones who did not buy that outrageously insulting slap in the face called the GOUT. It's a sad sad affair really this shafting of the fans buisness, a shame too, that Lucas can be so disrespectful to his best films and their fans.

 

P.S. A good thread Sky.

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neebis said:
skyjedi2005 said:

It seems to me an artists rights are in conflict with the historical preservation of these classic films.  Why can't Lucas do both?

Oh, the irony...

With Martin Scorsese and other filmmakers, Lucas also continues to lead the fight for film preservation. "It's amazing," he says, "that you have to fight the studios to get them to preserve their films. . . . Parts of 'Dr. Strangelove' are gone; some of the music is lost. Kubrick is having to photograph individual frames to create a new fine-grain negative. That's madness, tragic madness."

from The Home Audience Is Listening - Technology: George Lucas' THX sound system

 

 ROTFL!!!!

Knightmessenger said:

What can be done? Don't buy any new releases of Star Wars unless they contain the originals.

Well, that's an obvious one for me. I felt zero motivation to buy the 2004 set and never did. I did buy the GOUT, though, multiple copies to do my bit for its sales (and just in case a copy busts or something). Yeah it was a slap in the face, but it was still the OOT on dvd. It works fine for me. I couldn't care less if it's not anamorphic. My only concern is about the OOT appearing on future formats, because dvds stop working after 10-15 years so sometime a future format version will be needed.

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I still wonder though even if Lucas relented and had someone like Robert Harris restore the oot, would all the hatred leveled at Lucas continue.   I mean i don't think the prequels and Indiana jones IV were the greatest films ever, that does not mean i wish the man any harm.  The original trilogy still is as awesome to me now as when it was a new thing.  I still have a great deal of respect for him as an artist, a filmaker and an author.

I just wish i could enjoy his films the way i always watched them, yes including the buried 1997 versions of the trilogy those are also of historical value.

We as fans may feel a sort of ownership over the franchise because we own those memories and emotions attached to those remembrances, but  star wars was never our baby, it has always been george's, we never owned it except maybe adopting it into our hearts.

What do other fans think is a star wars altered and watered down preferable to no star wars at all?

There is another dimension to things when fans have their own children who enjoy the new movies, i don't have any children, but my nephew likes the shiny graphics and cgi of the prequels and films like transformers.

Should we deny the younger generation their enjoyment out of a sort of bitterness?

George Lucas is a brilliant businessman as he is tuned into what the masses and the younger people want to see.  He has made it clear he cares nothing for the 30-40 crowd as he has always made the films for children he claims.

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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skyjedi2005 said:

I still wonder though even if Lucas relented and had someone like Robert Harris restore the oot, would all the hatred leveled at Lucas continue. 

 I don't think you can blame an artist for, 30 years after making a masterpiece, making more work that doesn't necessarily measure up to that masterpeice. If I'm dissapointed in the PT and Indy 4, that's not a personal flaw with Lucas, they're just not as good films.

The only thing I have issue with the man about is his desire to rewrite/erase/destroy film history, as well as the movies that I love and that made him rich and famouse. If tommorrow he said "Restored OUT comes out in November! Sorry about that!" I'd have no beef with him at all.

Anyone who is personally angry at Lucas just because his later film output was dissapointing is a bit odd in my opinion.

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I think the community as a whole would immediately forgive George Lucas for all his transgressions--either real or perceived--if the theatrical cuts of the original trilogy showed up on Blu-ray with a proper restoration and clean 1080p transfer. Any anger towards him would completely dissipate (until somebody sees a lightsaber that's not quite as red as it should be, anyway).

I personally moved on from Star Wars a long time ago. There are too many good films out there that have received proper treatment to bother with something that kind of pisses me off whenever I watch it. Haven't watched any Star Wars anything in at least 3 years, actually.

originaltrilogy.com Administrator

MTFBWY

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That's incredible, you have put in all those hours getting these forums to work more smoothly and adding all these great features and you can't stomach seeing these films that we spend so much time turning over and over like a bunch of forensic investigators and amateur Frankensteins.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6Dp2OfIT_M

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Well, don't forget that a large portion of the purpose of this site has shifted to fan edits and fan preservations.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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The truth is it hurts to watch star wars now. I go for classic EU novels when I want a good SW fix. The GOUTs are painful to see-especially those damn garbage mattes!

George has this intense desire to rework his films, and while that is his perrogative as the director-that shouldn't mean destroying the originals that made him in the first place. Can anyone show him the Blade Runner boxset-and the letter from Ridley Scott talking about "providing every version of the film so that you can enjoy your preferred version in the best audio and visual quality possible". Maybe if he sees something like this he might realize that we aren't asking to not do the new cut.

The OT, 97SE, and THX 1138 original cut deserve to be released to the public in the true "definitive collection".

As of right now we cannot see these but we can watch Howard the Duck on DVD....now that's much more than a slight weapons malfunction. BTW how in the hell did that abomination ever get on DVD???  Let alone a Special Edition!!!!

VADER!? WHERE THE HELL IS MY MOCHA LATTE? -Palpy on a very bad day.

“George didn’t think there was any future in dead Han toys.”-Harrison Ford

My review blog: thehificelluloidmonster.wordpress.com

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Believe it or not howard was one of Amazon's most frequently requested titles for fans that signed up to know when they were available, also the bootleggers were already making a mint.  The film was successful enough as a cult hit overseas in europe to warrant an HD broadcast and uncut dvd.  The us release was a no brainer to maximize profits.  I wonder if all the video versions released since the theatrical bombed have yet to recoup the costs of the movie?

Yeah i am really unhappy with my pan and scan thx 1138 vhs tape, at this point i would have even settled for a non anamorphic laserdisc dump like the gout as a bonus feature.  I mean they included the student film in really bad quality, i have seen better copies out there.

American Graffiti is another of my favorites and i wish i could have an unaltered version not really truly theatrical just cgi fiddle free, i don't mind the added scenes that the studio intially took out.

I would also like to hear the original stereo and mono mix for the film, also i want the mono mix for THX both were Walter Murch, guy was brilliant as a sound designer, how different would star wars have been if he did the sounds instead of burrt?  He is also an underrated director and editor.

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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captainsolo said:

The truth is it hurts to watch star wars now. I go for classic EU novels when I want a good SW fix. The GOUTs are painful to see-especially those damn garbage mattes!

I can't blame the GOUT for that.  I find the garbage mattes to be just as visible on the '04 sets as well.  In fact, that's when I first noticed them.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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I've been looking at the laundry lists of things some fans still want digitally altered and changed. I'm hopeful that it's getting to the point where expectations for the next CGI enhanced extra-special edition are way higher than Lucas is willing to meet. Because it would involve too much effort. And by too much I mean any. Right now the easiest and cheapest thing to do to add value to a blu-ray release is to say "just clean up the old versions".