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RicOlie_2 said:
Um...I don't think a blank screen counts as a scene.*
THIS is possibly the worst scene in all 6 movies:
I’m just here because I’m driving tonight.
What Went Wrong/What Can Be Avoided Thread — Page 4
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Too many lightsabers?
I'd agree.
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Tack said:
Too many lightsabers?
I'd agree.
Yup, along with the fact that their wielders aren't worthy of being called, "characters".
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OBI-WAN37 said:
There isn't really that much that needs to be avoided in the prequels at all. We need to avoid avoiding them, which doesn't seem to be happening with the crew behind the movies so far, which is just a HUGE HUGE HUGE HUGE HUGE HUGE HUGE HUGE HUGE HUGE HUGE HUGE HUGE HUGE HUGE.....
Several new Death Stars are built
....HUGE HUGE HUGE HUGE HUGE HUGE HUGE HUGE HUGE HUGE HUGE HUGE HUGE injustice.
And thanks God for that. My hopes for the new films is that they ignore the prequels completely. Disney/ Lucasfilm seem to be starting down that route already. Cancelling the PT era show, moving away from heavy reliance on CG and digital filming, merchandise more concentrated on the OT era, etc etc. Lucas had a hard-on for the prequels and that all we got; prequels crap this and prequel crap that. The only saving grace was the Clone Wars cartoon series which, thankfully, was run by others and NOT George (even though you could see when he was heavily involved with certain stories)
The OT is almost universally loved by SW fans; the Prequels almost universally hated by SW fans. There is no injustice that they would move away from those films. None at all. To have the new films anything like the prequels or to be influenced by them would be suicide for the franchise. Disney/ Lucasfilm NEED to make a good film if they have any hope of recouping their investment. Another film like the prequels is going to lose even more fans. But even the hardened prequelites/ Lucaslovers/ are threatening to ignore the films just because they may change the EU or ignore the prequels or just for the fact that it isn't going to be a George Lucas film. And, to be honest, i say good riddance.
The prequels were nowhere near as successful as the OT was. Forget what the top whatever lists say, they don't take into consideration how much ticket costs have risen ( well one site does). How many people actually went to see those movies. AOTC is almost out of the top 100 with ROTS not too far behind it. TPM is the only one even close to the OT in the charts and that was probably down to the fact that it was an new Star Wars film after all those years without anything. Only a handful of die hard SW fans went to see AOTC & ROTS more than once.
The prequels are like that relative who the family hates. You know they are a part of the family but you know it's best to avoid them like the plague
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darklordoftech said:
RicOlie_2 said:
Um...I don't think a blank screen counts as a scene.*
THIS is possibly the worst scene in all 6 movies:
IMO, the worst thing about this scene is that an inconsequential asshat is the only character in any of the movies to get a lightsaber that is coloured something other than blue, red, or green. If only one character is allowed a unique lightsaber colour, it should be a main character who matters.
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DuracellEnergizer said:
darklordoftech said:
RicOlie_2 said:
Um...I don't think a blank screen counts as a scene.*
THIS is possibly the worst scene in all 6 movies:
IMO, the worst thing about this scene is that an inconsequential asshat is the only character in any of the movies to get a lightsaber that is coloured something other than blue, red, or green. If only one character is allowed a unique lightsaber colour, it should be a main character who matters.
I think that if one Jedi gets a unique saber color, it should be Yoda. If Yoda has to have a saber, it should be as unique as possible.
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As for what can be avoided, anything that TFN wants.
As for what went wrong, bizarre revisionism. Palpatine's appearance is NOT the result of getting hit by lightning.
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Avoid Jedis as super-powerful space-monks who obsess over rules and midichlorian measurements. It's easy even for older fans to forget that the Force in the OT was much less physically powerful and prevalent. When Luke was facing down the Rancor, he - George - didn't think to hit the button with his Force power. Moving small rocks was kind of a big deal. Yoda slowly lifting a ship with much concentration was also supposed to be amazing. Luke had to use great concentration to lift C-3PO. Otherwise the Force was used for slight distractions, fooling a weak-minded person on occasion, or finding calm and focus. No Jedi mindtrick was used in the Cantina, which goes to show the Force wasn't seen as a go-to for all conflicts. When Luke wanted to convince Jabba that he was a great Jedi Knight, he also didn't dress in the supposed traditional robes. Jedis were more interesting and the Force more mysterious.
Is it too late to go back?
The blue elephant in the room.
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Confusing names with titles. Darth Sidious, Maul, and Tyranus is like Yoda being called "Ben Yoda", Qui-Gon being "Ben Jinn", etc.
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The prequels lacked the one thing the original movies had a ton of: a great sense of tension and danger for the protagonists.
Original Star Wars was about a small group of people fighting incredible odds against an overwhelming power and coming out on top. It was a roller-coaster of danger from beginning to end rooting for the little guy as they barely scraped by.
The prequels were about a lot of people who were too blind and stupid to see a tiny threat become a huge problem. Not a lot of tension in that especially since we in the audience already know the exact nature of the problem, the outcome, and have to watch the protagonists fumble around in the dark for three movies until its too late. The prequels were essentially the Keystone Cops in Space. With the Jedi being the bumblers. Not very intriguing to the audience.
Another problem is the lack of likable characters. It was always going to be tough to make new movies showing a likable version of the baddest bad guy in the universe, but they didn't even attempt it. Anakin was always a jerk and only got worse. The Jedi were out of touch. The politicians were monotone bores. Obi-Wan couldn't save it.
The sequels need to bring back the tension of the originals, but I don't exactly know how they'll do that given that the antagonists were soundly defeated in Return of the Jedi. Hope they don't try a repeat of the prequels with a lurking danger.
Can senior versions of Luke, Han, and Leia be enough of a return of likable characters to prop up the movie? They'll certainly help, but we could just be seeing a repeat of Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull.
In any case these new movies can't be any worse than the prequels. That was rock bottom.
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pablumatic said:
The sequels need to bring back the tension of the originals, but I don't exactly know how they'll do that given that the antagonists were soundly defeated in Return of the Jedi.
That's only true for the SE. The theatrical version leaves it up to the individual to decide for him/herself if the entire Empire was defeated in the Battle of Endor if it merely was the battle that spelled the beginning of the end for the Empire.
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DuracellEnergizer said:
pablumatic said:
The sequels need to bring back the tension of the originals, but I don't exactly know how they'll do that given that the antagonists were soundly defeated in Return of the Jedi.
That's only true for the SE. The theatrical version leaves it up to the individual to decide for him/herself if the entire Empire was defeated in the Battle of Endor if it merely was the battle that spelled the beginning of the end for the Empire.
It's been confirmed that as far as the state of the Empire is concerned, what we saw in 1997 was always the intent (even if intent isn't canon). Of course, they could change their mind, but I don't find that very likely.
Anyway, something that went wrong is that lightsaber duels became all about "epicness" wih no emotion and disconnected characters.
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Forgetting the mythology. The dark side is evil, not something that should be balanced with the light side.
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adywan said:
OBI-WAN37 said:
There isn't really that much that needs to be avoided in the prequels at all. We need to avoid avoiding them, which doesn't seem to be happening with the crew behind the movies so far, which is just a HUGE HUGE HUGE HUGE HUGE HUGE HUGE HUGE HUGE HUGE HUGE HUGE HUGE HUGE HUGE.....
Several new Death Stars are built
....HUGE HUGE HUGE HUGE HUGE HUGE HUGE HUGE HUGE HUGE HUGE HUGE HUGE injustice.
And thanks God for that. My hopes for the new films is that they ignore the prequels completely. Disney/ Lucasfilm seem to be starting down that route already. Cancelling the PT era show, moving away from heavy reliance on CG and digital filming, merchandise more concentrated on the OT era, etc etc. Lucas had a hard-on for the prequels and that all we got; prequels crap this and prequel crap that. The only saving grace was the Clone Wars cartoon series which, thankfully, was run by others and NOT George (even though you could see when he was heavily involved with certain stories)
The OT is almost universally loved by SW fans; the Prequels almost universally hated by SW fans. There is no injustice that they would move away from those films. None at all. To have the new films anything like the prequels or to be influenced by them would be suicide for the franchise. Disney/ Lucasfilm NEED to make a good film if they have any hope of recouping their investment. Another film like the prequels is going to lose even more fans. But even the hardened prequelites/ Lucaslovers/ are threatening to ignore the films just because they may change the EU or ignore the prequels or just for the fact that it isn't going to be a George Lucas film. And, to be honest, i say good riddance.
The prequels were nowhere near as successful as the OT was. Forget what the top whatever lists say, they don't take into consideration how much ticket costs have risen ( well one site does). How many people actually went to see those movies. AOTC is almost out of the top 100 with ROTS not too far behind it. TPM is the only one even close to the OT in the charts and that was probably down to the fact that it was an new Star Wars film after all those years without anything. Only a handful of die hard SW fans went to see AOTC & ROTS more than once.
The prequels are like that relative who the family hates. You know they are a part of the family but you know it's best to avoid them like the plague
Amen.
Keep Circulating the Tapes.
END OF LINE
(It hasn’t happened yet)
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I was watching the 'Pacific Rim' behind the scenes extras last night. One featurette was on the SFX and I noted that they were created by ILM and shared a few of the same faces as the PT team (Including one of the head guys, I forget his name).
It was a stark contrast to seeing those same faces looking depressed, unengaged and most notably confused during similar Star Wars PT featurettes. But for 'Pacific Rim' Del Toro was leading them, giving them guidance and offering encouragment. When they asked questions, he answered with a simple yes or gave them a clear no followed by a description of exactly how he wanted it to look. He was in control of every facet of the shots, from how he wanted the creatures to move, their movement speeds, the skin textures, the fight coreagraphy, the camera angles/moves, lighting and shooting styles. But in the PT featurettes, time and again you see those same people hurridly mocking up hundreds of possible ideas only for Lucas to casually say something like "I like these three (random ideas)" and offer no reason why. Cue shots of crest fallen and bewildered ILM employees.
I'm not saying 'Pacific Rim' turned out perfect or anything (Though the VisFX turned out damn near perfect IMO) but it was amazing to see the effect a confident and enthusiastic leader can have on motivating a creative team.
(It also made me really want to see what Del Toro would've done with The Hobbit too.)
VIZ TOP TIPS! - PARENTS. Impress your children by showing them a floppy disk and telling them it’s a 3D model of a save icon.
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Lucas even made fun of the ideas sometimes...that mustn't have been a good motivator for the artists who were trying their best. It would have been more efficient to at least give a general idea of what he wanted. George seemed clueless about what he wanted his characters to look like.
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RicOlie_2 said:
George seemed clueless about what he wanted his characters to look like.
This is why I don't buy into that "Lucas is an auteur" crap the gushers on TFN like to go on about. Without others to give him advice and aid, Lucas is a blind man trapped in the middle of a vast, empty ocean under a moonless, starless midnight sky.
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My god I forgot about TFN; I hear they permanently ban people now for preferring the OT over the PT.
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generalfrevious said:
they permanently ban people now for preferring the OT over the PT.
Pretty much. What we call "preferring the OT" they call "trolling". They also call preferring the OT over the EU "trolling".
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I'm pretty open about my preferance for the OOT/dislike of the PT when I post on TFN, and I've never received any bans.
Of course, there was that one time when a mod subtlely threatened to ban me for starting a "canon war" just because I considered the concept of personal canon a valid form of canon ...
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DuracellEnergizer said:
"canon war"
I find those hilarious. The passion with which they'll flame each other over whether or not something is canon is quite a sight.
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darklordoftech said:
THIS is possibly the worst scene in all 6 movies:
It also shows why having a completely CGI scene can sometimes look so off. Particularly when it's a composite of several drawings created independent of each other.
i haven't seen the film, so I may be reading this wrong. To the far right it looks as if someone is lying on the ground. There is someone standing very close. The shadow cast from the person standing is on the ground next to the body, but it's missing from the body, and only cast on the ground.
It was there first and the added body interrupts it. The shadow is too dark to be interrupted that way. If the light source were strong enough to remove the shadow from the arm, it would also wash it out on the ground. It's poorly rendered.
In the one prequel I saw, the CGI took me out of the film because it not only looked like a cartoon, but it also failed to follow the laws of physics. it looks fake on several levels.
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darklordoftech said:
DuracellEnergizer said:
"canon war"
I find those hilarious. The passion with which they'll flame each other over whether or not something is canon is quite a sight.
I like to link this video when it comes to "canon wars":
Click
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Jedi stupidity. Thinking the Sith are extinct when the Sith have faked extinction before is absolutely nonsensical.
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adywan said:
...the Prequels almost universally hated by SW fans...
I call "bullshit" on that.
Unless, of course, you've got some sort of worldwide survey of Star Wars fans to present to the forum (and I mean Star Wars fans, not simply your ten favourite internet-hoggers) in which case I'd happily look at your evidence with an open mind. If you've the time, of course (that is, when you're not editing extra snowspeeder pilots into The Empire Strikes Back to make it a better movie).
What can be avoided in the new films has, sadly, already happened. Abrams (the man with no first name who seems to spend more time complaining about missing his family than he does talking about the new films; why didn't he take a job that meant he'd never have to travel?) looks to be more concerned with paying lip-service to the fans on the internet by placating them with remarks about practical effects (yawn) than following in the footsteps of a man who pushed at the limits with every iteration of the Star Wars saga.
Kasdan (who has already said that he doesn't believe the fans care about half the of things that are discussed ad nauseum on the internet) needs to have a word.