Sign In

What SE changes (if any) did people like? — Page 11

Author
Time

slask said:

Anakin's real look in his 40s is the one we see when Luke removes the helmet. His ghost had an unreal appearence, so Lucas decided to show him as he appeared last time he was by the light side.

A vast oversight on his behalf, because the last time he was alive (on either side) he looked like Sebastian Shaw, and Obi-Wan and Yoda's ghosts look exactly as they did when they died. And don't tell me "he metaphorically died when he turned to the dark side" - again, he looked like Sebastian Shaw when he redeemed himself - see what I'm saying?

Ol’ George has the GOUT, I see.

Author
Time

Ha, the whole thing is so dumb, only deep in the star wars cult world would it be anything but hilarious that they stuck a guy from the early 2000s into an 80s movie. Put some Limp Bizkit in there while you're at it.

Author
Time

Anyway... most of the CGI was pretty good, I thought. Certainly, they haven't aged well, but for their time they were good. The exceptions of course being Greedo shooting first (Han's neck just sort of twists out of place, don't you notice!?), Anakin's ghost, and that unconvincing pan/zoom of Jabba's gate.

Ol’ George has the GOUT, I see.

Author
Time

FrankT said:

Anyway... most of the CGI was pretty good, I thought. Certainly, they haven't aged well, but for their time they were good. The exceptions of course being Greedo shooting first (Han's neck just sort of twists out of place, don't you notice!?), Anakin's ghost, and that unconvincing pan/zoom of Jabba's gate.

 I always thought Anakin's ghost looked pretty good all things considered. 

Author
Time

FrankT said:

slask said:

Anakin's real look in his 40s is the one we see when Luke removes the helmet. His ghost had an unreal appearence, so Lucas decided to show him as he appeared last time he was by the light side.

A vast oversight on his behalf, because the last time he was alive (on either side) he looked like Sebastian Shaw, and Obi-Wan and Yoda's ghosts look exactly as they did when they died. And don't tell me "he metaphorically died when he turned to the dark side" - again, he looked like Sebastian Shaw when he redeemed himself - see what I'm saying?

 It's not about metaphors. The only ghosts we see in the saga are the ones of light side Jedi. "Old Shaw" was not a Jedi, not anymore.

The trouble with that change in the '04 is Lucas's lazyness. Instead of putting Christensen's head from an unused take on Shaw's body, he could have had him playing the part specifically for that scene. It would have been much better.

Author
Time

slask said:

FrankT said:

slask said:

Anakin's real look in his 40s is the one we see when Luke removes the helmet. His ghost had an unreal appearence, so Lucas decided to show him as he appeared last time he was by the light side.

A vast oversight on his behalf, because the last time he was alive (on either side) he looked like Sebastian Shaw, and Obi-Wan and Yoda's ghosts look exactly as they did when they died. And don't tell me "he metaphorically died when he turned to the dark side" - again, he looked like Sebastian Shaw when he redeemed himself - see what I'm saying?

 It's not about metaphors. The only ghosts we see in the saga are the ones of light side Jedi. "Old Shaw" was not a Jedi, not anymore.

The trouble with that change in the '04 is Lucas's lazyness. Instead of putting Christensen's head from an unused take on Shaw's body, he could have had him playing the part specifically for that scene. It would have been much better.

 That's true.

Ol’ George has the GOUT, I see.

Author
Time

slask said:

FrankT said:

slask said:

Anakin's real look in his 40s is the one we see when Luke removes the helmet. His ghost had an unreal appearence, so Lucas decided to show him as he appeared last time he was by the light side.

A vast oversight on his behalf, because the last time he was alive (on either side) he looked like Sebastian Shaw, and Obi-Wan and Yoda's ghosts look exactly as they did when they died. And don't tell me "he metaphorically died when he turned to the dark side" - again, he looked like Sebastian Shaw when he redeemed himself - see what I'm saying?

 It's not about metaphors. The only ghosts we see in the saga are the ones of light side Jedi. "Old Shaw" was not a Jedi, not anymore.

The trouble with that change in the '04 is Lucas's lazyness. 

 Lazy Lucas, was Lazy.

Author
Time

fandom's vision is not lazy, it's stuck in time, and that's worse.

Author
Time

Well I like the....no not really....

There's the new....no, people don't like that....

What about....nah....

I like the new CGI shots for ANH.

Web designer and filmmaker.

Author
Time

Putting McDiarmid in ESB could have been awesome if executed properly.

If Plagueis shows up in the ST, not only will I refuse to watch the movies, but I won't so much as watch the trailers, either. - DuracellEnergizer

Author
Time

^eeeeh, I dunno. I guess if they'd done it before his characterization went completely off the rails it could have been cool, but the original Emperor hologram has always been one of my absolute favorite parts of the saga. Continuity be damned, it's so pleasingly spooky.

Author
Time

Bushido said:

I like the new CGI shots for ANH.

 Given that these are among the most extreme changes, what are some changes you didn't like? Besides Jedi Rocks. I don't think I've heard anyone defend Jedi Rocks.

Author
Time

When I think about it, though, if it weren't for the suppression of the unaltered cut, nothing in ANH apart from the whole shooting first business would really bother me. I'm upset that it's the only official version out there and that the color sucks on the blu ray, but there's nothing in there on the level of Boba Fett's voice or Hayden at the end of ROTJ that makes me angry every time I see it. Come to think of it, apart from the Jabba update and tweaking the timing in the cantina shootout, I think ANH might be the least-messed with since 1997 (and I do have a definite soft spot for the 1997 cuts).

Author
Time

joefavs said:

I think ANH might be the least-messed with since 1997.

 Well, perhaps that's because it was by far the most messed with in 1997.

My answer for 'which ones would be watchable if the OOT wasn't suppressed' would be ESB. I think the Boba Fett voice change is a bit disrespectful, but I don't really care enough about Fett for it to bother me. Most of the effects shots are just recomposited from the same elements and look pretty nice. 

RoTJ has perhaps a small number of offensive changes. But they're huge ones. Even in 1997, Jedi Rocks and the Sarlacc were enough to really throw it off. Fortunately, it's fairly smooth sailing for a huge stretch of the film.

ANH is just screwed with from top to bottom. Terrible CGI creatures and droids at every turn. Far more replaced effects and paintings rather than recomposited ones. Least consistent color timing of the three. They've really succeeded in making it permanently look like a film that was slapped together in 1997.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

slask said:

fandom's vision is not lazy, it's stuck in time, and that's worse.

Because everything has to be constantly updated to stay "modern" and "kewl" so as to measure up to the ever-diminishing standards of whatever age happens to be "modern" and "kewl" at the moment.

I guess by 3415, the OT will have to receive ultraviolet colour grading ('cause we'll have genetically modified ourselves to see ultraviolet light), all the female characters will have to have digital mustaches painted onto their faces ('cause it will be fashionable for women to wear mustaches in the 3400s), and new scenes with Han and Chewie in an interspecies romance will have to be shot and inserted into the existing footage ('cause not only will we have made first contact with aliens by this time, we'll have taken to screwing them as well).

Divergent Universes
Dreams of a Randy Git-Fiend

Make Off Topic great again.

Author
Time

Slask and his TFN comrades are as much stuck in 1997 as we are in 1977, then. Unless you count a Jabba model constructed in ~1999 and a couple seconds of a Dug.

Author
Time

I like that they removed the Emperor's Head Slugs in 2011.

If Plagueis shows up in the ST, not only will I refuse to watch the movies, but I won't so much as watch the trailers, either. - DuracellEnergizer

Author
Time

DuracellEnergizer said:

Because everything has to be constantly updated to stay "modern" and "kewl" so as to measure up to the ever-diminishing standards of whatever age happens to be "modern" and "kewl" at the moment.

I guess by 3415, the OT will have to receive ultraviolet colour grading ('cause we'll have genetically modified ourselves to see ultraviolet light), all the female characters will have to have digital mustaches painted onto their faces ('cause it will be fashionable for women to wear mustaches in the 3400s), and new scenes with Han and Chewie in an interspecies romance will have to be shot and inserted into the existing footage ('cause not only will we have made first contact with aliens by this time, we'll have taken to screwing them as well).

 I didn't say everything has to be updated. But many of those changes work well, and if you're not hyper-nostalgic you can notice that.

towne32 said:

Slask and his TFN comrades are as much stuck in 1997 as we are in 1977, then. Unless you count a Jabba model constructed in ~1999 and a couple seconds of a Dug.

 Nope. I don't like 1997 versions.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

If you like the effects in the 2011 version, you are a fan of 1997 effects, a 1999 jabba, and a 2011 dug thing

Edit: as well as perhaps a 2011 flashy carbonite effect, Ewok eyes, and a door. Lot's of modern effects to get excited about! I think they should have held off on the blu-ray until 2014. So much more could be done with doors now that technology has evolved even further. 

Author
Time

Still...  no. 1997 effects were improved, and other changes were made, in 2011.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Like I said, you are a fan of 1997 effects, which are outdated. Every single effect needs to be made in the current era, or you too are stuck in the past.

If you think there are no 1997 effects in the 2011 versions, I don't think you are familiar enough with these films to hold an intelligent conversation.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

slask said:

I didn't say everything has to be updated. But many of those changes work well, and if you're not hyper-nostalgic you can notice that.

Nice try, but I don't operate that way. Nostalgia has never been able to blind me to the flaws of things I loved as child. If it could, I'd still consider Batman Forever one of the best superhero movies ever made.

Actually, if I truly were driven by nostalgia, I'd go out of my way to PRAISE the SEs, not spit on them. After all, I was young and stupid when I was exposed to the SE '97; I easily bought into the Lucasfilm Kool-Aid that it was the definitive version of the trilogy and spent years afterward regarding the OOT as an obsolete rough draft.

Divergent Universes
Dreams of a Randy Git-Fiend

Make Off Topic great again.

Author
Time

Well I could go either way. I sometimes argue my case with preservation out of nostalgia but not always. I just think when it's done its done. Once it's released to the public it should become a product of the era it was produced in. Now granted if my introduction to Star Wars had been via the SE's rather than the OOT I may actually be a SE supporter. I've found I've generally grown fond of the versions of film, music, etc. that I was introduced to first. Nonetheless I agree from a purist perspective that the OOT should still be made available. As someone who grew up on the OOT, do I particularly like the SE's?? Personally no. Do I object to their existence?? Yes and no. Yes in the sense that it's made the OOT obsolete to the fan base who prefer Lucas' 'unfinished' versions. No in the sense of it allowed it's creator to 'finish' what he claims was unfinished. That said, if both versions were to be packaged together I would and I'm sure many others would not object to this. At least it will please both camps. I just don't buy this there has to be 'one'. Ridley Scott released a Blu Ray set with like 6 or 7 versions of Blade Runner. If there has to be one, then speaking as a purist it should be the original.