What I Don't Care For in the EU

rcb said:

TheBoost said:

It seems that alot of material in the EU is just an echo of what the movies do.

Jabba the Hutt is a big worm? How about an entire species of big worms that are all just like him, and are all gangsters too!

Jabba had a pet rancor? So what? Everyone has one. In fact, Rancors are about the most common animal in the galaxy. Right next to Banthas.

Greedo was a bounty hunter? So is every member of his species. He's like a halfling thief... rodians only have one potential life path.

Every criminal is a smuggler with a bounty on their head. Apparently the GFFA doesn't have any other crimes. Or any other way of dealing with criminals.

In a galaxy with millions of systems, every always seems to go to or have been to the same couple dozen.

Anakin had a secret wife? That's the Jedi equivalent of a priest with a drinking problem. Just look the other way.

Palpatine almost destroys the Jedi? Not a big deal. It had been done quite a few times before, and is done again a generation or two later.

Vader is a Jedi who falls to the dark side and is redeemed? Here's how "ROTJ" should have played out.

PALPATINE: "You must know now that your father can never be turned from the Dark Side."

LUKE: "Actually Empy, if you read up on your history, it's not at all uncommon. Darth Revan and Ulic Quel Droma come to mind. Someday my grandson will do it too."

VADER: "He's right boss. Maybe we should BOTH go back to the light side."

 

I don't know if it's writers or publishers afraid of inventing new ground, or Lucasfilm only approving things that have huge derivative elements, or what, but it's one of the reasons I just can't get into the EU. 

you need to read an star wars encyclopedia buddy. and i love the EU. it give me new ways to imagine the SW universer. btw, the final one there would make a good parody.

 

Yeah buddy! Read a SW Encylopedia for the Force's sake! If you had ever had the intelligence to read one, you'd have realized that it is a FACT that all Hutts are gansters (could of learned that from TPM too) and you'd have learned that all Rodians are by default bounty hunters, unless they are born female, then they are by default exotic dancers for Hutts. And all Gamorreans are guards, usually for Hutts. Eveybody who can afford it has a Rancor in their basement, only really rich people have Sarlacc pits for backup though. Rancors are actually rather cheap, but transplanting a Sarlacc in your back yeard will set you back considerably. You'd also learn that smuggling is among the worst of crimes under the Galactic Empire, and because the Empire covers such a large area, plenty of people feel they can get away with it, so millions of Rodians are hired by Hutts to go out and capture them.

You'd also have discovered that the official Jedi handbook actually has a loophole in it stating quite clearly that Jedi are allowed to have wives, as long as they are secret. Since most Jedi are nerds, very few Jedi ever manage to get married, so it is not a big deal.

Also, you'd have learned that there are only a handful of systems in the galaxy, but the Empire adds a bunch of fake systems to the star maps in order to make it look like the Empire is larger than it actually is.

You really should get yourself an SW encylopedia, you are clearly very uneducated and sound like an idiot posting on forums with people who have their doctorate in SW.

Okay, in all seriousness, it has been close to ten years since I have read any EU!!! :O   Can hardly believe it has been that long, but I am pretty sure I have not read anything Star Wars other than the prequel novelizations since 1999. I used to really enjoy some of them, and some of them sucked. Usually when they sucked I just put them down and grabbed another one. Sometimes they were cliched, but actually quite a few of them had some pretty original ideas in them, other than the fact that most centered around Han, Luke, and Leia. I have never heard of any other Rodians being bounty hunters (other than in SW: ANH SE) or any other Hutts being gangsters (other than when it was clearly stated that "the Hutts are gangsters!" in TPM).

The return from the darkside has always been really over done, one would assume it is a common occurance, since Anakin Skywalker did it, Luke Skywalker did it, and Kyle Katarn did it, as well as a few others I think, all before the dark times, before 1997.

From what I understand, the EU has become and even more tangled mess of crap in the years since. I enjoyed it in my day, but I have no desire to ever read one again except maybe some of the early ones I have already read and really enjoyed.

Star Wars EU has always had severe flaws (though less so than Star Trek EU, in my opinion). I've always thoroughly enjoyed, however, the Jedi Academy Trilogy by Kevin J. Anderson, the Thrawn trilogy by Timothy Zahn, and the X-Wing/Rath Squadron series (And I, Jedi, of course) by Michael Stackpole and Aaron Allston. Everything else I've come across is just...mreh...

Of course, things got a thousand times worse when some brainiac decided to let Salvatore write for Star Wars. I didn't think EU could get any lower after NJO started...then the PT took root, and I was proved wrong. It's really a shame. The Star Wars universe has so much potential; it's sad to see it so...untapped...

But Salvatore proved he was a better author than George Lucas in His novelization of attack of the clones.  The book was many million of miles away from being stellar, but he clealry understood the human element better than george.  George only knows how to do dumb action movies.  Without his ex wife Marcia, without Kasden, Kershner, or Kurtz, or the Huycks he could not write his way out of a wet paper bag in the middle of a blizzard.

Lucas largely wrote the Story for Crystal Skulls, a movie that is as ludicrous as an episode of Chuck Jones road runner and wild e coyote, except that stuff was funny and crystal numbskulls ruined Indiana Jones.

I mean maybe Lucas should be doing cartoons for the kiddies.  Clone wars 2008 for instance is right up his alley for Childish banter and throw away dialogue and relentless action without a point.  Except that it is a commercial to sell videogames and action figures. 

Since Episode 1 he ceased doing star wars movies and started doing cartoons. Jar Jar was straight out of a film like Who Framed Roger Rabbit, except that was supposed to be a genre parody and Phantom Menace was supposed to be taken seriously as the beginning of the saga.

Anakin Skywalker's humanity a plot point essential to the story of the prequels was largely left out of the films.    You get a better sense of his character from the novelizations from Terry Brooks, R.A. Salvatore, and Matthew Stover.  Even Haden Blackman in the republic comics breathed some essential humanity into his character, hell even the novelization of the awfull 2008 film of clone wars did. 

Lucas without good writers and artists is nothing but an idea man and about half his ideas have been bad ones.

I don't care what Lucas thinks the prequels are as much EU as everything other writers have written since Return of the Jedi.  I don't even consider the special editions as EU, they certainly are not canon either.  They are a bizarre blending of the two. 

The prequels being EU in my estimation are not even the best of the EU.  That goes to Tim Zahn's Thrawn Trilogy.

Well at least the star wars expanded universe is not as bad as the Indiana Jones Expanded Universe. Look at everything that has been done since after Last Crusade was made, lol.

rcb said:

as u can see my friend, i do know a little about the SW universe.

I can certainly see that you do. When it comes to knowledge of the SW Universe, I have no doubt that you have me bested. Perhaps you misinterpreted my previous post, I was agreeing with you in telling TheBoost that he ought to read an SW encyclopedia.

skyjedi2005 said:But Salvatore proved he was a better author than George Lucas in His novelization of attack of the clones.  The book was many million of miles away from being stellar, but he clealry understood the human element better than george.  George only knows how to do dumb action movies.  Without his ex wife Marcia, without Kasden, Kershner, or Kurtz, or the Huycks he could not write his way out of a wet paper bag in the middle of a blizzard.

I made it a point to read all three prequel novels. I wouldn't have read TPM's novel if it had not been written by Terry Brooks, and I probably would not have read the other two had I not read TPM. I feel Brooks did a decent enough job given the material he had to work with, but I'd say it is probably the weakest of the three prequel novels.

I have never read any of Salvatore's other books, but I enjoyed The Attack of the Clones novel, which is saying something, because I cannot stand the movie. He did a great job with characterization and like sky said, the human element. Anakin's insecurities and actions made a lot more sense when explained through the words or Salvatore, he is still a total loser, but at least Salvatore manages to make you feel sorry for him rather than just wanting to slap him on the side of the head. The character of Count Duku was much imporved, and much more emphasis was placed on his relationship with Qui-gon, and his departure from the Jedi order. Even the plot made some kind of semi-logical sense, while the actual film was missing enough pieces of the puzzle to render it almost entirely nonsensical.

Stover's ROTS adaption at parts felt like pure poetry. Not taking the story into account, I don't think I have ever enjoyed reading an SW novel that much, or at least not in that way. I really enjoyed the words and style he would use to explain things. The basic story is the same, and it still sucks well enough, but the added emotion and rationalization as Stover constantly jumps into the heads of various characters and throws you into their boots for a page or two really made it work a lot better than the film did.

These are the last three SW novels I have ever read, and probably will ever read. Just don't have any interest in any of the new ones, and my list of more important works to read is already really long and constantly growing longer. I have toyed with the idea of reading some of Zahn's later SW books, but probably never will.

No need to feel like an idiot, this is the internet after all. The internet is so chock full of complete and total idiots, a small semi-idiotic slip up every now and then hardly gets noticed. :)

Just out of curiosity, how many volumes is that encyclopedia? I would have killed to have something like that when I was a kid.

rcb said:

the sarlaac pit was a pit known to jabba and he used it to dispose of his enemies. the saralac originated from space. spores were spread through the galaxy and landed on planets and would eventually become sarlaacs. the younger could move from place to place. but as they grew older they would become less and less mobile.

God, this sort of bullshit explanation just totally kills the magic and mystery of sw.  I don't give a sh1t where the Sarlaac came from or what it actually is, it's just a cool freaky idea that got my imagination going when I was a kid.

If your stupid star wars money-making encyclopedia said the sarlacc pit was actually a big pussy in the desert (which it clearly is) you'd accept that too I suppose.

Geez... when did sw become this geeky crapfest?

What I don't care for in EU: Hot Chocolate.  LOL.

^ Yeah. I just came up with those things off the top of my head to address why the galaxy seemed like a huge place, but yet thoughout the saga we find ourselves visiting the same planets again and again and again. Though from my personal experience, I have not seen that with the EU, back when I read the EU it seemed like it took us to all sorts of places not found in the movies. 

The hot chocolate thing in Zahn's first book is the worst part about his series. It was totally unecessary, and suddenly I was expecting the gang to be meeting up at the local Deny's for breakfest, go to a baseball game, have a few hotdogs and some popcorn, then go out for a few Budwiesers afterwards.

In the movies they were careful to stay away from earthly terms as much as reasonable. We were shown exotic animals and drinks (Luke's family drinking blue milk for example). The mention of hot chocolate was a great way to kind of destroy that authentically alien quality.

As for the big pussy in the desert thing, I've never been with a British girl, but if they have weird venus flytrap like stalks and tentacles down there, I'd like to keep it that way! I think that comparison for the sarlacc became obsolete after the SE was released.

But not obsolete here!  Beak, what beak?  I deny any existence of such a thing!

Luke drinking hot chocolate instead of Corellian ale alcohol is totally Luke though.

We all now Princess Leia and Han probably drink a lot of star wars beer,lol.

Luke never touched a drop supposedly until what when he was going to get married to mara jade, and went to a bar/cantina with Han.  After the Vong war i bet you he became a heavy alchoholic.lol.

Now Han going to a bar and getting into a barfight with Chewie by his side after an all night drinking binge is totally his style.  Luke was  the goody goody, Self rightious prude.  the innocent farm boy, the pure hero.  A least before he left Tatooine.  Han was always a shades of grey character while Luke was the pure white, and vader the all black.  Speaking of White and Black or good vs evil. 

Empire hinted at Luke's darkness.

Han Solo the world weary smuggler, gambler, thief cheat and con artist.  The Cynic.  The cocky guy who thinks he has all the answers.

Luke the innocent and nieve farmboy who refusing the call to adventure has is thrust upon him by the death of his aunt and uncle and the arrival of the droids with the stolen plans, and Ben Kenobi's revelation that Luke's father was a jedi hinting at greater things for Luke than being a moisture farmer.

Yeah well its nice that they updated the encyclopedia, but where the hell are the updated versions of the chronology and guide to characters.

The second edition of chronology came out in 2005 using mostly 2004 info and the EU has expanded by leaps and bounds since then.  I mean you know five years is a lot of time for the comics, the videogames, cartoons and novels to progress the story after the new jedi order.  We had the bug trilogy, the legacy novel series.  and Fate of the Jedi will see print of its first volumes before the bridge novel Blood Oath is published.  The other bridge novel to the new series Millenium Falcon is already out.

The New Darth Bane book which is the third book will correspond to what happens in fate of the jedi, so will shadows of mindor and of course fate of the jedi leaps us forward to the legacy comics era and Cade Skywalker.

Who knows if They will show the stories of the skywalker heirs.  Ben Skywalker as a jedi knight.  More of Jaina Solo as a Jedi and Eventually Allana Solo as a jedi.

Which leads to emperor fel and his daughter and the imperial Knights,  probably jaina.  And Ben Skywalkers line obviously leads to Cade because if not his name would be cade solo.

Luke Skywalker obviously dies wheather of old age or at the hands of the Sith is to be determined.  Which leads to a resurgent Sith and a weakened Jedi Presence.  And the Sith had not ruled the galaxy since Palpatine and Vader.

Which leads me to believe these new Sith maybe be an offshoot of the Bane sith cult that apparently is hiding in the unknown regions.

I have to finish the final 3 books of the legacy series to get caught up for the lead in to Fate of the Jedi.  I hope fate of the Jedi does not suck like Legacy mostly did.  at least what i have read of leagacy so far.  I have to read Fury, Revelation and Invincible.

I basically know how it ends but much of the action and story is left out of the spoilers.

In George Lucas canon Anakin restored balance to the force by doing away with the evil sith.

In the non Lucas canon EU that obviously does not apply.  Since the Sith come back to power again and again and again as the baddies.

 The one possible exception of original bad guys being  the vong.  and the days of the imperials trying to return to their glory days, before that in the bantam era.  Having formal generals and moffs try to destroy the new republic with their super weapon of the week.

The funny thing about the Vong invasion was that it was lifted from an alien invasion idea in truce at Bakura.

But the original aliens invade and attack idea was pitched to Marvel for their comics line before the license expired.  They were also set to do Dark Empire which obviously stalled and was published by dark horse many years later.

By now the Dark Skywalker thing and cloned sith/dark jedi has become old hat. 

The same with Superweapons, the same with the Imperials and the Sith and Jedi.  There is nothing original at all but only rehashes and clones of cloned stories.

They are going to make a New Jedi order comic which features a character other than the main star wars cast from the movies.  But it is only one new diversion from the whole Jedi continued storyline.  The others were the Republic Clone Trooper books.  But now with the Clone Wars animation, before that the game republic cammando, and before that the prequels i am sick to death of the clones too.  And for the love of god i hope we don't see more of those Roger roger robots or Jar Jar.

I mean they can have a moon fall on Chewie and kill him but not a useless sidekick like Jar Jar.  Jar Jar even gets a cameo in Return of the Jedi, and so does Hayden thanks to a certain Mister Lucas.

You Would not believe it possible but i am sick of the mandaloreans to thanks to Karen Traviss.  There origins used to be pretty cool and mysterious and Boba Fett was cool now its just so lame.

They even made Fett into a worthless and useless character.

C3PX said:

As for the big pussy in the desert thing, I've never been with a British girl, but if they have weird venus flytrap like stalks and tentacles down there, I'd like to keep it that way!

Hahahaha

rcb said:

i thought the majority of this site was geeky? lol. i know a lot about the star wars universe. now the backstory

behind it, georgle lucas, authors, other directors, basically real world things, i don't know much about. all i really

know its what i've scene in the documentaries. want me to ruin more for u? i could tell u about the wampa or taun

taun. :)

 Fair point.  I guess for me Star Wars just isn't about the ins and out sof the ships and creatures, especially when those ins and outs are lame backstories created to sell books.  That more what Star Trek is about in my mind.  Each to their own though.

I used to be obsessed with the EU from about when I was 10 to 13. After tuning out a few years, I came back and, reading online, I thought God, what were they thinking? Every character who was onsreen for 2 seconds needs an in-depth story, and every discrepancy between installments has to be explained with some drawn-out technobabble. The way they've explained everything leaves bupkis to the imagination. Everything's part of a bigger picture.

There are some stories that are pretty cool. Everyone likes Zahn's stuff. I like the Infinities comics because they can get away with anything. Plus some of the games are fun, like Rogue Leader, Jedi Outcast and KOTOR. I like the shorter, self-contained stories than ongoing arcs.

I didn't bother to see the Clone Wars movie last summer, but I watched a couple of episodes on TV last week, and I actually liked it. It's a campy cartoon - that's basically what Star Wars is to me. Forget the moapy 20-book soap operas they're pushing now - just distract me with some adventure for a half hour. :P