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We have to buy this set atleast to preserve it for the next generation of fans — Page 3

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Originally posted by: Tiptup
Old fans will remember the way it was, but new fans will not love the prequels or understand why the original trilogy was great in light of them. Star Wars will die with this generation I believe. I could be wrong, but it seems clear to me that the final films we have now are not great art by any means and nobody is going to care enough to be devoted to them like we were with the originals. The next CGI-drenched eye candy is always around the corner for today's kids and the latest incarnations of Star Wars are just another drop in the bucket.


I couldn't have said it better. Lucas will have no one to blame but himself. I guess there's beauty in a creator destroying his creation. If only he was aware of it.

Star Wars will die with us, which is why fan restoration projects are so important. We don't need Lucas, anymore. It's ours.
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I disagree. I don't think the original love for Star Wars will die with us. For once thing, many of us are in our early 20's. I never saw the originals in the theater, but I love them as if I did. My younger brother was born in '87 and he love only the originals.

Time will test the temper of the material that Star Wars is made off. The original is a classic and will be remember as so. No mater how much Lucas alters it, the fact remains that the extra scenes were not there for 20 years. If taught in a film class, the originals have to be used because it would be a lie if taught otherwise. Hell, even a reference to it from the 70's and 80's will have to have original scenes, otherwise it wouldn't make sense. The death star explosion did not have a ring around it in 1977. You can't show a scene like that say on "That 70's Show." You have to show the original.

There are too many film purists out there, us included, that won't let this die. I myself am only 23 and don't plan on dieing any time soon. So if you say that this is the last generation, well, techincally there have only been 2 generations so far. By the time I'm 80, hopefully there will be more generations that loved the originals as much as me.

You can already see that there is very little love for Episode I, by fans and the mass public. Episode II has hardly any mention anymore and given that Episode III is fairly new, I'll say it will die out with time just like first two. What holds the test of time? Well, ESB for one. That movie sustained the least amount of changes and is reguarded as most fans favorite. That thing is bullet proof.

We are not the LAST generation. We are the FIRST. And it won't die with us.
"I am altering the movies. Pray I don't alter them any further." -Darth Lucas
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Hear, hear. And I have no intention of showing any child an SE or PT movie anytime soon. It's just wrong.
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Not only are some of us in our early twenties, I'm only 13, and I love the OOT. If someone as young as me can love the OOT more than the special edition, that simply proves that the OOT will stand the test of time. I know that I'M not impressed by CGI in movies. In most cases, I hate it, and I don't think that I'm in the minority in this case in my age group. With all luck the OOT WILL stand the test of time.
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No one who I show a Star Wars film to from this point forward will EVER be shown the prequels as released on DVD, or anything but the original OOT.

Either the OOT or, if they insist on seeing the prequels, my (or a superior editor's) edits instead of the real ones.

This is a promise.

My stance on revising fan edits.

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I don't own the special edition and contemplate every day selling back my PT for cash at the mall. My children and my friends will only watch the OOT. That is all that is at my house.

And I've noticed a decline in PT references on TV and yet a steady pace of OT references. Shows how much of the universe is retained in our memories. I know that Family Guy has only referenced the OT and I see it staying that way. I did, however, catch an Episode III reference in a "Grim Adventures of Billy & Mandy" episode yesterday. They were at a football game and Mandy was the head cheerleader for some reason. She needed to get the team to win the game but they were going to have to go about it differently.

Mandy: "We are going to have to resort to cartoonish antics to win this game."
Erwin: "Is it possible to learn this power?"
Mandy: "Not from a coach."
You then hear, as a sound effect, Luke's lightsaber quickly igniting.

The sound effect is what did it for me. I was so totally caught off-guard that my burst of laughter came out as a fat man's wheeze before I started to guffaw. It was so random, that is why I loved it. My lungs hurt from the force of my first burst of laughter.

But to balance out the Star Wars references, during their Christmas episode, Billy and Mandy head towards the north pole (to stab Santa with a wooden stake or something). They get there and Billy runs into a cave near by screaming "Santa!" He gets in there and see Luke hanging upside down screaming. The Wampa comes into the shot and now Billy is screaming as he runs out of the cave. I died laughing there too.
"I am altering the movies. Pray I don't alter them any further." -Darth Lucas
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I just love the Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy. I hardly ever get to see it anymore tho. One of the few kids shows that doesn't suck.
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Originally posted by: Invader Jenny
I disagree. I don't think the original love for Star Wars will die with us. For once thing, many of us are in our early 20's. I never saw the originals in the theater, but I love them as if I did. My younger brother was born in '87 and he love only the originals.

Time will test the temper of the material that Star Wars is made off. The original is a classic and will be remember as so. No mater how much Lucas alters it, the fact remains that the extra scenes were not there for 20 years. If taught in a film class, the originals have to be used because it would be a lie if taught otherwise. Hell, even a reference to it from the 70's and 80's will have to have original scenes, otherwise it wouldn't make sense. The death star explosion did not have a ring around it in 1977. You can't show a scene like that say on "That 70's Show." You have to show the original.

There are too many film purists out there, us included, that won't let this die. I myself am only 23 and don't plan on dieing any time soon. So if you say that this is the last generation, well, techincally there have only been 2 generations so far. By the time I'm 80, hopefully there will be more generations that loved the originals as much as me.


Well, I myself am 26 so I know exactly what you mean concerning the enduring nature of Star Wars, and its two sequels. I was too young to have ever seen them in theaters, but the greatness of the films caught my heart from the first moment I saw them at a later, but still very young, age. I remember how much of an event it was for me to see Star Wars premiere on television and how much I begged for my dad's video recorder to capture it. And then, a few years after that, I had a commercial-free copy of Star Wars taped off of the Disney Channel to quench my thirst. I religiously watched that first film in the series over a hundred times within the following years (I'd guess around over two hundred viewings). To this day I can still enjoy it just as much as I did then. Nowhere did I ever seek to imply that cinematic achievements on their level would or could be forgotten. What I was referring to was the popularity of the films among mainstream culture.

To put it bluntly, the special edition of Star Wars actually bores me. I have no idea why. It feels like a cheap mess that was thrown together by someone who really didn’t care about anything. Ancient, low-budget special effects and newer 3D technology are combined to give us confusingly messy scenes that lack all sense of subtlety and lasting emotional impact (the lizard-mount-creature additions, Han Solo and Greedo, Jabba the Hut/Bobba Fette, and the absolutely silly shock waves). In addition, (perhaps someone can fill me in here) the great musical score of the film sounds subdued and quiet in the SE. It all feels so bland I get tired of watching it fast.

For a while there I thought I had just grown up and thus didn't like the first Star Wars as much anymore. But, just a few years ago I finally watched the original version again (after I purchased some mint-condition, widescreen VHS tapes over the internet) and all my love and enthusiasm for the film returned instantly. That experience of mine may sound crazy to most of you, but that's exactly how it went. My emotional satisfaction for Empire and Jedi went up in a similar fashion when I went back to their originals. I can't totally explain it. Even my younger brother and sister came to watch the films with me (something they never did for the SEs) and were enjoying all three movies again.

Now we get the crux of my argument: George Lucas. Here is a man seeking to do every last thing he can to ensure that the original theatrical cuts of Star Wars are never seen by anyone, ever again. He goes out of his way to destroy their place within film history and their place within the Star Was universe which he rules like an insane tyrant. All the next and upcoming generation seems to have access to in terms of the Star Wars films are the PT and the SET. (Sure we get a bonus disk thrown at us [probably against Lucas' wishes] but that specific release is extremely limited and how many of those people are even going to bother popping the bonus disk in?) All of the mainstream fervor that remains in our culture is found among people living in the current generation who remember the original films. Unfortunately, most of those people are too stupid to realize that the films were altered to become piles of crap right under their collective nose!

In the end, if George Lucas continues to have his way with the Star Wars films, all of the love for the PT and the Special Editions of Star Wars that will remain in upcoming generations will be found among super-geeks and random people that have no sense of taste. Sure, the original trilogy will certainly remain popular among special collectors, but that will be via Laserdisc transfers and not enough people will have a clue about which Star Wars the term “original trilogy” even refers to. The mainstream culture will forget about Star Wars just like "Hellsing: the movie" and most of the other crap that came out around this time period. It’s sad for me to think about, but that's the way I see things heading. I suppose the only hope is if fans can somehow overcome the confusion and crap that George Lucas has injected into the Star Wars franchise. I want to believe that’s possible.

(Edit: Spelling error.)

"Now all Lucas has to do is make a cgi version of himself.  It will be better than the original and fit his original vision." - skyjedi2005

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Originally posted by: Scruffy Twenty years from now, no one will be willing to watch some smeary 4:3 laserdisc master dumped onto the obsolete DVD format. Especially if they have no pre-existing love for the material. It'll be a novelty item, perhaps suitable for play on portable media devices, but not on home theater systems. Of course, that's what it is today.


Someone probably said that about the Bible, but good philosophy has a pretty long shelf life. Standing up for what is right, serving a cause larger than oneself; these are timeless themes. Star Wars is a cultural icon and as such will outlive everyone posting on these forums.

I remember watching “The Sound of Music” in school on an old reel-to-reel projector because it was important to my 1st grade music teacher. If the passion is there it will always be there. The secret is to make sure the new generation is aware of where George went wrong. My 12-year-old son is just as critical of the films as I am and my 9-year-old daughter isn’t too far behind.

I’m not talking about brain-washing your children, just develop critical thought. I pointed out the Han/Greedo thing to my kids and they immediately saw how the changes DESTORYED Han’s character development. Most of the other debates about questionable material in Star Wars have been provoked by my son. I was beaming with pride when I went to see ROTS with the family; in the opening scene (during the “buzz droids” sequence) my son turned to me and said, “dad if they can get droids there can’t they get explosives there?” At age 10 my son already knew that George was placing scenes in the movie as an excuse for CG.

Teach your issue an appreciation for good story-telling and the OT will be on your family’s shelf long after you’ve shuffled off your mortal coil.

Shit the old Godzilla movies have neither a good story nor good SE and I still enjoy them.


"Look, going good against bashers/gushers is one thing. Going good against the living? That's something else."
- Darth-Adroit

“I also thought George could be turned back to the good side. It couldn't be done. He is more CGI now than story. Twisted and evil.”
- Darth-Adroit
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Twenty years from now, no one will be willing to watch some smeary 4:3 laserdisc master dumped onto the obsolete DVD format.

Someone probably said that about the Bible, but good philosophy has a pretty long shelf life.


And there are only a handful of scholars reading smeary, falling-apart Aramaic and Koine copies of the Bible.
"It's the stoned movie you don't have to be stoned for." -- Tom Shales on Star Wars
Scruffy's gonna die the way he lived.
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Originally posted by: Scruffy
Twenty years from now, no one will be willing to watch some smeary 4:3 laserdisc master dumped onto the obsolete DVD format.

Someone probably said that about the Bible, but good philosophy has a pretty long shelf life.


And there are only a handful of scholars reading smeary, falling-apart Aramaic and Koine copies of the Bible.


Touché’

Still I think my point is valid. Catholics can claim that the Protestants removed the Apocrypha from the Bible and George can say that the SE OT is the original. So long as people are interested in seeking the truth they will find it. If 1.2 Billion Roman Catholics can’t hide the Council of Trent (1546) then I don’t think ILM can hide the OOT.


"Look, going good against bashers/gushers is one thing. Going good against the living? That's something else."
- Darth-Adroit

“I also thought George could be turned back to the good side. It couldn't be done. He is more CGI now than story. Twisted and evil.”
- Darth-Adroit
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What's the council of Trent?

And there are 1.2 Billion Muslims in the world. Not roman catholics.
"I am altering the movies. Pray I don't alter them any further." -Darth Lucas
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Originally posted by: Invader JennyWhat's the council of Trent?

And there are 1.2 Billion Muslims in the world. Not roman catholics.


According to the BBC as of 2005 there were about 1.1 Billion members of the RCC:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/4243727.stm

Considering the growth rates of Catholic Populations in parts of Asia, South America and especially Africa 1.2 billion Catholics in June 2006 is probably pretty close to the mark. Add the Orthodox Church and the Protestant faiths and you reach the 2.1 Billion Christian mark real fast. Christians outnumber Muslims by almost two to one on this planet.

The Council of Trent was an Ecumenical Council of the RCC (the 19th if I remember correctly) and it addressed Biblical Canon among other things. To make a long story short there had been many members interested in elevating certain books (the RCC calls them deuterocanonical and Protestants call them apocrypha) to full canon status. There were a number of reasons for this; they provide scriptural support for Purgatory, Prayer for the Dead and they bridge the Old and New Testament. Many elements of the church were opposed to elevating these books to canon status for an equal number of reasons; they provide scriptural support for Purgatory, Prayer for the Dead and they infer that women are pretty much useless.

The Protestants began breaking away from the RCC in the early sixteenth century and much of the resistance to the deuterocanonical books left with them. Since those that opposed elevating the books were gone it was relatively simple for the remaining Church leaders to elevate those books to canon status. That is why a Catholic Bible has more books in the OT than a Protestant Bible.

Many modern Catholics claim that the deuterocanonical books were never really in debate and have always been apart of Biblical canon. So long as people have a passion for secular history they will see this for the lie that it is.

Some day SE OT fans and George may claim that the SE OT is the way Star Wars always has been, but so long as people have a passion for secular history they will see this for the lie that it is as well.
"Look, going good against bashers/gushers is one thing. Going good against the living? That's something else."
- Darth-Adroit

“I also thought George could be turned back to the good side. It couldn't be done. He is more CGI now than story. Twisted and evil.”
- Darth-Adroit
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Originally posted by: CO
If we boycott this release then Lucas claims victory and says, "See I told you nobody wanted the original versions." Then the O-OT dies a slow death that Lucas always wanted it to , then what about the next generation of fans?


I agree with that 100%. The ONLY way the OT is EVER going to be properly released, is if we show there is a CLEAR demand for it. If we don't buy these new DVDs, we will be shooting ourselves in the foot.

Now as far as having to buy the SE all over again to get the OT DVDs, I may be putting my other 3 discs from the 2004 SE boxed set up on eBay. I won't get back what I paid, but at least I'll get back something, and I'll then put the new DVDs in the box with the bonus disc. I suggest you all do the same thing.

OR- the "send back" idea is also a good one (that is, sending back the SE discs to George Lucas with a note saying that we only bought the DVD sets for the OT discs).

Yes, GL will still be making more money off us, but what CO said was right. We MUST continue to support the OT, anamorphic or non-anamorphic. Please consider this decision carefully, folks.

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Originally posted by: mverta
You know what? The OUT DVD is going to sell like gangbusters. Especially to a lot of people who talk about boycotting it on message boards. The greatest bluff Lucasfilm can call is on fans not slurping up what they give them, because we always do. Always. I'm sorry, but if the fart-laden Jar Jar fest can generate that much money, we've lost all our credibility in terms of what we will and won't pay for. We'll pay for whatever they give us and like it. They know it. I know it, and if you don't know it, then you don't want to know it. The 1% of the people on this board who are going to stick to their "this is bullshit" guns, are the same 1% of the people in the world who stick to ANYTHING they say. Each and every one of whom, by the way, has a beer on me next time I see them.

_Mike


As I have no plans to buy the OOT DVD is September, can I have a shot on you next time I'm in the neighborhood .

By the way, the fart-laden Jar-Jar fest made money from teh general public as much as it did fans. If we all boycotted it, it would still make a lot of money.

“What Orwell feared were those who would ban books. What Huxley feared was that there would be no reason to ban a book, for there would be no one who wanted to read one.”

Neil Postman, Amusing Ourselves to Death

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I find it strange that you of all people are boycotting this release since you are the one who's said all summer that we must buy it to show the message to Lucasfilm that there is a market for the OOT.

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Originally posted by: Mike O


By the way, the fart-laden Jar-Jar fest made money from teh general public as much as it did fans. If we all boycotted it, it would still make a lot of money.


Yeah, I'm sure it would've made 400 million without the fans that saw it 10-20 times. Sure.

Same goes for these DVDs. If we, the fans, completely boycotted this thing, it would not be selling the way it is now. I bet I could mention these DVDs (2006 ones) to anyone else in my family and they wouldn't even know they existed. So yeah, it might make some money, but it wouldn't make nearly as much without the fans slurping it down like they do everything else LFL releases.

I for one am sticking to my guns. LFL doesn't get one more penny from me until they do a proper release. I'm tired of GL constantly tinkering in his quest for perfection (which is not attainable). What ever happened to moving on to other things after ROTS? He doesn't have anything else to move on to, so he's just going to keep re-releasing the same movies, year after year, until the end of time.
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“What Orwell feared were those who would ban books. What Huxley feared was that there would be no reason to ban a book, for there would be no one who wanted to read one.”

Neil Postman, Amusing Ourselves to Death