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Waterworld ABC Cut? A ton of info - see McFly's posts for details (Released) — Page 8

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Ooh, that's pretty! A composite of this with the SciFi version, coupled with the uncensored soundtrack from the Encore version would probably be the ideal. Unless someone wants to also composite all of those with the official VHS, which I don't personally own.

It's shown on pay cable from time to time, maybe someone could do a fullscreen capture from there.

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Hello McFly,

Is your Capture on 1 or 2 DVDs ?

Anybody with the skills & tools, willing to give the composite a shot ?
Do you expect me to talk ?
No Mister Bond I expect you to DIE !
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I don't know if you need this, Beastly, but I bought a copy of the Making Of Waterworld book today. It's about 150 pages and has a bunch of info and drawings on the film. I can send it to you if you have a mailing address.
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Nice find! But unless you want to just give it to me for me to enjoy, keep it to yourself. Whatever compositing of fan edition DVD of the flick eventually happens, I'm not going to be involved in the production. I simply don't have the time.

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Doesn't matter to me. I'll send it to you if you want it. It was only a dollar, so it's not like it's going to break me.
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Awesome! Thanks a lot, sir, you've got an email!

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I'd like to do the composite edit if the Reverend and Lorang approve and can offer their versions. My source is a DV capture directly to my hard drive. At the very least, the final product will be a composite of my capture, lorang's for the extra deleted scenes, and Reverend Beastly's for the uncensored audio. I'm also open to incorporating VHS, Laserdisc, DVD, HDTV, or HD-DVD (does anyone have access to facilities to rip that?) The problem I have is that it's such a big film, I want the best quality possible, but I don't want there to be jarring gaps in the quality of the different scenes.

Also, aspect ratio is an issue. If I pulled from DVD or HD, I'd need to crop all the bonus material, and I'm tempted to just leave it open because, once again, it's a BIG film and we want to see as much of the open ocean as possible. I'd like to hear everyone's suggestions, and screenshots if you have any of the versions listed.
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I'll be torrenting my copy starting tomorrow. Lorang's is on its way to me. If you don't want to wait on torrents of those, email me and we'll work something out.

For a composite of this, I'd say keep it all fullscreen. It's not really easy to watch it that way, but it's less jarring than switching between a two very, very different aspect ratios.

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I hear you on that, it's why I can't be 100% at my Superman 2 project :<

"Right now the coffees are doing their final work." (Airi, Masked Rider Den-o episode 1)

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Consult the Demon again for part one of a two part adventure.

I really hope this goes quick because I seriously hate seeding DVDs.

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ReverendBeastly should have my copy soon, a composite would be nice idea only the watermark is an issue with my copy, if my copy is the better version then it may be best to dub over the censored footage but maintain the better quality copy of my version all be it with a small water mark logo.
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Okay, first disc is finally freakin' finished uploading. Disc 2 will be up tomorrow or Wednesday. Sorry for the wait, but I need a not-crappy connection for a couple days.

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I got it, and am at a 1.034 ratio. 3 seeds seen recently, and 17 peers. I'll probably have to quit seeding, soon.

I'll try to get this uploaded to the newsgroups soon. I've got a couple of other torrents to finish off, and I need to download my next post from Rapidshare after I finish some newsgroup downloads...

If we can still vote, I'd much rather see Disc 2 on Rapidshare than torrent, but I guess I'm outnumbered. I'd post it to the newsgroups.


I'm glad to see finally see this very old and frustrating thread making some real progress.


Theoretically, it'd be simple to fix the SciFi bug in a compostitor, since the logo doesn't change position on the screen. But, no, nothing's ever simple. NTSC means the color correction would probably have to be changed on every single shot. And then there's the issue of removing the telecine. If lorang's is NTSC resized for PAL broadcast, then the telecine may be unfixable. And you'd need to end up with the exact number of frames for each shot (could pad the frames or substitute). So something like that would turn into a freakin' career.


Theoretically (again), this could be stretched to, say, 16:1 and the theatrical cropped or squished, using the Panorama function. But It'd probably look awful whenever there's a person or object that nearly fills the frame. Or when the camera pans. But, hey, it'd be worth testing. Some shots would look fine.

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Just got Lorang's disc today. It's NTSC and pretty spiffy quality! Comparing it with the disc I seeded, though, I don't know if there's a significant difference because I forgot I had previously gotten a cleaner copy of the Encore broadcast. Compare the sample that Lorang posted with the first disc of the Encore version, if you would.

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I've been spending the last week or so learning Avisynth and VDub to tackle this project. Here's my plan thus far for a composit edit of the extended Waterworld footage:

ASPECT RATIO
I agree with ReverendBeastly that we should keep this in 4:3. I downloaded an R2 DVD as a reference, and it had a number of shots where key parts of the image are cropped, as compared with the TV version. This is Waterworld, so I don't want shots like this where the water is cropped out:
TV Capture:
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i82/thegreathunger/TV.jpg
R2 DVD:
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i82/thegreathunger/DVD.jpg
(NOTE: I don't have any screenshots of the R1 version, so I can't say that the TV cut is truly "open matte").

SOURCES
The sources will be my DV capture off of Bravo, ReverendBeastly and/or Llorang's full VHS TV captures, and the official VHS.

3:2 PULLDOWN
Being TV cuts, these sources need for each added scene to be IVTC'd separately from the film (correct me if I'm wrong here). I did a test of the hydro addict deleted scene and managed to get a smooth 24p, albeit with some strange chroma artifacts:
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i82/thegreathunger/ChromaWha.jpg
I used this in Avisynth:
DoubleWeave()
Pulldown(1,4)
The artifacts are barely noticable, but if it's a problem with my IVTC method, I'd rather get it right. If anyone knows of something I'm doing wrong, let me know. In the case of the VHS sources, if Jaiman Tuckuh is correct, it may not be possible to IVTC. Cross that bridge when we come to it?

NOISE
I've also tried out the Avisynth FFT3DFilter recommended to me by RidgeShark (he's using it for his Army of Darkness extended cut) and the initial trial is encouraging:
Bravo TV Original:
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i82/thegreathunger/Mariner-DV.jpg
Bravo TV w/ denoise, levels:
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i82/thegreathunger/Mariner-denoise.jpg

LOGOS
Logos will have to stay. I don't like the blurry logo "removal" tools. Unless anyone knows of a filter which can truly remove the logos, I say just leave em and ignore em.

EDITING
Here's what I haven't gotten around to testing: Once the Different scenes are all individual 24p .avs files, I need to find some software to frameserve to Sony Vegas, where I'll cut everything together, color correct, and render out to DVD Architect.

I'm used to editing in Vegas, but have never followed this workflow before, so if anyone sees any potholes before me, feel free to point them out. Otherwise, wish me luck!
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Damn, man, very promising so far! I'm liking the prospect of the composite a lot more now, it seems more tangible. Perhaps I could just mail you Lorang's disc to save myself torrenting a 3rd DVD?

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I would be most appreciative if you'd mail me your copies. I could capture VHS (as DV) if you're comfortable sending the original tapes. If not, DVD it is.
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I don't have original tapes, unfortunately, just these DVD copies. Email me with an address to send discs to (email is in sig).

I do have VHS tapes of an ABC broadcast somewhere at home, but they're at least 2nd gen and censored, so not as good as any of the copies currently being worked with.

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Originally posted by: mcfly89
Logos will have to stay. I don't like the blurry logo "removal" tools. Unless anyone knows of a filter which can truly remove the logos, I say just leave em and ignore em.


THANK YOU. Blurring out logos is far more distracting than simply leaving the damn things, which is why I've been so pleased to see logos left in tact on distributed TV shows the last couple years.

Looking at the samples you posted, it took me a little while to realize that that denoising filter was actually doing something (didn't see the dirt visible in the sky at first). However, I think you should lighten up on the color levels a bit. I'd have to dig out my DVDs to check, but is he really that red?

I have a 720p version of Waterworld that was reencoded from the HDDVD released recently. If you want any screenshots from that so you have some reference shots for color and whatnot, please let me know.

Example shot:

http://public.yogurtrat.com/viewer.php?id=7487snapshot20070204003629.PNG
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I think that when I eventually buy some sort of HD-DVD player, Waterworld will be the first disc I buy.

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Originally posted by: mcfly89
I've been spending the last week or so learning Avisynth and VDub to tackle this project. Here's my plan thus far for a composit edit of the extended Waterworld footage:


Holy crap! That looks sweet!

The de-noise really did a job. And it was needed. Looks like the noise was from fine static.

The color artifacting looks like it might be a sync timing problem from the broadcast chain. There are filters for those color problems, but I don't know much about them, offhand. I'll try to remember to search them out.


I've gotta (try to) dig out my R1 copy--- but I don't see how that could be anything but open-matte there! And, in those shots, they didn't even zoom in like most open-mattes. (I'm a sucker for open-matte).

IMDB says "Panavision Cameras and Lenses" which means it's not Panavision anamorphic. "Spherical" reinforces that.


The Encore cap uses standard pulldown, so it'll be simple to IVTC. There's significant combing, though, because a Time Base Corrector wasn't used for the cap - the horizontal lines aren't aligned with each other.


The SciFi cap is NTSC resolution, and framerate, but has a weird pulldown. I'm not sure what's going on there. I don't really know much about weird pulldowns. But I suspect this one can be IVTC'd. Doesn't look like this one had a TBC, either. Anyway, there's at least one NTSC->PAL method that loses information, it can probably be IVTC'd to look good, but it wouldn't match on all frames.


Did you capture from Encore directly to DV, or was is from a tape? If it wasn't from tape, then it wouldn't have needed a TBC, and should look a lot better right off the bat. Your screencaps look much sharper & more detailed, and I don't see any combing, so it looks like like direct to DV. DV capture methods tend to be tough on highlights & shadows, but standard VHS automatically throws away tons of detail and is lousy for color.

Too bad Encore didn't show all the deleted scenes. But I don't think the difference should be too jarring.


I wonder if there's anyone with a PAL vcr, a TBC, and a good capture setup, who could recapture from Lorang's tape, if he's willing to send it to them?


I wholeheartedly agree that blurring the logos would be worse than leaving them alone. If they were partially transparent, then there's de-logo filters that could, at least, de-emphasise them, but they appear to be opaque.


I just realized that I'm causing confusion. We're using two of the definitions of "composite". You're talking about editing different sources together. While I've been referring to the stuff that Adobe After Effects does - combining pieces of two different images. Anyway, I know Vegas has compositing capabilities, and I don't suspect it'd take any advanced functions to composite between sources to lose the logos, if the color-correction is accurate enough. Should just need a feathered mask.

Of course the two sources would have to have the same color-correction (what I was talking about in my earlier post). After I posted, I realized that those automated color correction methods might do the job. And, then I realized that you'd already asked about them.

You'd align the pictures to each other, and maybe do a final color-tweak, within Vegas, to make them match, probably using "levels". Then you'd let the clean portion, of another source, replace the logo.


I don't see any logos on the torrented Encore cap. And the quality looks pretty similar to the SciFi cap. So it might be the choice for the deleted scenes that aren't in your Bravo cap.

If you don't want to delay things by doing the compositing bit, or if it turns out to be a lot of work, due to color-correction, or whatever, then you're the boss. But I hope you might give it a try. Thankfully, the Bravo logo isn't on screen full time, since it's huge.

Edit: I haven't used Vegas, and I don't know how to frameserve to Vegas, there's a plugin for reading mpegs, though.

One day I found... 10 years had got behind me. Next day was worse.

 

Download  shows from Cable DVR (Updated! Yes, it needs a rewrite, but it's worth slogging through, anyway).

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Originally posted by: ReverendBeastly
Just got Lorang's disc today. It's NTSC and pretty spiffy quality! Comparing it with the disc I seeded, though, I don't know if there's a significant difference because I forgot I had previously gotten a cleaner copy of the Encore broadcast. Compare the sample that Lorang posted with the first disc of the Encore version, if you would.


If you don't think there's a need for me to post Lorang's copy, then I think I'll just go ahead and post the Encore version by itself. McFly's work could be disc 2 of 2, when it's finished.

One day I found... 10 years had got behind me. Next day was worse.

 

Download  shows from Cable DVR (Updated! Yes, it needs a rewrite, but it's worth slogging through, anyway).

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Well, mcfly's work will be a disc, yeah. It won't be 2 of 2, though. The disc I uploaded to Demonoid was the first half of the flick, so disc 2 from that set needs to be uploaded for the whole of that copy to be out there.

I used to be very active on this forum. I’m not really anymore. Sometimes, people still want to get in touch with me about something, and that is great! If that describes you, please email me at [my username]ATgmailDOTcom.

Hi everybody. You’re all awesome. Keep up the good work.