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Watched ROTS on HBO, UGGGH!

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The reason I started this thread was I was actually a big defender of ROTS last May. I walked out thinking it was a pretty damn good movie, and light years better than TPM & AOTC. At one point I considered myself a 3-6 SW fan. Upon further inspection........I am reconsidering, it may be worse.

It has been on HBO almost every day, so I am able to flip in and out of certain parts just to see if they hold up, and I have to admit I find myself laughing at key parts of the movie now.

-The turn scene is so bad, it is just poorly executed. What should have been the crowning jewel of the PT is just awkward and doesn't make sense.

-The whole Padme/Anakin/Obiwan meeting on Mustafar, which I thought was pretty good opening night, is laughable now, "You will not take her from me!" I really think Hayden is just a bad actor.

-The first 25 minutes in saving Palpatine just drags now, and I think I know why. Opening night it was the first time you get to see Anakin/Obiwan as good friends working together, but now you realize that should have been shown in AOTC, as that whole opening is a waste of time.

-General Grevious is almost a cartoon character, his voice, his movements, another boring part that drags is the fight between him and Kenobi

-Of course the building of Vader and, "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!" I crack up everytime. I would give any amount of money to see James Earl Jones face when he got the script for his Darth Vader reading, "This is it George?"

-There are still a couple of really good parts, like when Padme & Anakin stare across the Coruscant sky at each other with the eerie music playing, and notice it works cause there is no dialogue?

But I have to say this movie may be worse than AOTC & TPM, cause ROTS is just one big mess that feels like Lucas was tying together everything he forgot to put in the first two episodes. I know this isn't a pro-ROTS site to begin with, and that was not my point to just bash the movie, but it struck me how much I really liked this last year, and now I think the movie is borderline laughable in so many scenes. ROTS was my last hope at tying the PT to the OT. As Obiwan says in the movie, "Well then you are lost."

I think he is right, and come September 12th, when I have my O-OT DVD's, I will have no traces of the PT whenever I watch SW anymore.

The white flag goes up signally my thoughts on the PT.
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I say it is worse because there are so many bad scenes it over powers the few good ones (i.e. the dual of Yoda and Palps in the senate chamber)

I cannot keep quiet during a viewing. I have to yell constantly at the screen.

Me: Why the hell did Dooku do a flip of the balcony? It doesn't even look real! Use the damn stairs man. It's more sophisticated. You wouldn't see Yoda do that.

Grevous shows up Me: Uhh..no. *fast forward*

"Aren't you coming master? ... This whole ordeal worked because of you."
Me: Dear god, it's like watching a Middle School play production.

"Anakin, I want to have our baby back on Naboo." *turns around*
Me: Aughh!! What the hell is wrong with her face?

"Anakin! No.. Please...your choaking me..."
Me: If he's choaking you, why are you still able to make a sound? You should be a a death grip of asphyxiation.

"You under estimate my POWER!"
Me: *in a mocking, over exagerated tone* "You under estimate my power! Ughhhrrr!!!"


What I really think Anakin should have said when trying to lure Padme into joining him - "Whe don't have to run anymore. You and I can rule the galaxy together as husband and wife!" Reminicant of Vader and the whole "...rule as father and son!" obsession he has showing that he may desire power, but he doesn't want to do it alone. Ruling with family seems really important to him. But it all falls on deaf Lucas ears.
"I am altering the movies. Pray I don't alter them any further." -Darth Lucas
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I feel your pain man,

I only saw AOTC and ROTS in the theater once a piece and both were just horrible. I walked away debating which was worse and to this day it changes, but they're both gosh-awful. Tying the OT to them is like knotting an anchor around the OT's ankle and yelling, "Swim!" That's why, when it's all said and done, all SE stuff just has to go, period. All of it is in the vein of abstract silliness and EpIII is just patching together all the stuff he wasted his time not setting up in I and II. It's negligent filmmaking.

A lot of people still say Phantom Menace is the worst, and I see their perspective, but I disagree. The whole PT is bad, but the films suffer from the law of diminishing returns. At least with TPM, you had 16 years of anticipation without it coming in the wake of anything horrible (e.g., my guard was up for AOTC based on TPM, and when I saw ROTS I had no hope whatsoever) - you also had the most physical prequel in TPM, the most real sets and locations, and it was actually shot on film, which gives it a better look. Also, at least in TPM you actually had a Jedi-duo that was cool and worked well together - Neeson and McGregor (even though they didn't have enough to do and Neeson's character screwed continuity) - Yes, TPM had far too much childish crap, but I guess I forgive it more than the others because I wasn't yet wounded by previous prequels, everyone on opening night was positive and filled with hope before the film began unlike with the later movies and it was truly exciting to see some new Star Wars on the big screen...until it was over and my mouth was agape with shock and uncertainty.

Mike
"I turned it off! I don't wanna talk to her!"
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"The Phantom Menace" is the best of the prequels, by the way, for a myriad of reasons - not the least important of which is the complete lack of Wooden Christensen.
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I feel all your pain!!!!!

But how do these prequels movies always get worse on more viewings? And whenever I want to watch them, it is more like an obligation that I am trying like hell to watch them 1-6. I am forcing myself to watch movies that I know aren't that great, but it is my inner soul that keeps telling me you have to watch them 1-6.

Whenever I watch the OT, I WANT to watch them, I enjoy watching them, after the movie is done, I feel I have utterly enjoyed the last two hours. With the Prequels, I shake my head at the god awful moments in the movies and just wonder, "When did SW become this bad in sections of movies?"

There are some great stuff in the Prequels, but that doesn't make them great movies. I wonder if we could do a fan edit of just stuff that was great from the 3 movies, and have the Prequel Montage before watching Episode 4-6.

I guess I got depressed watching ROTS on HBO because I really thought Lucas was going to hit a homerun with this one, and really had high expectations, and did like it at first. But the more times I see it, UGGGGH.
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The best possible version of the prequels would be a one-movie edit of all three. Even then it wouldn't be as good as ROTJ. There is only one way to really enjoy SW and that is to ignore the PT.
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I almost got sick to my stomach with this bottom-of-the-cereal-box slice of dialogue:

73 INT. CORUSCANT-PADME'S APARTMENT-TWILIGHT
PADME stands in the balcony brushing her hair. ANAKIN leans against the wall, watching her lovingly.
ANAKIN: . . . every second I was thinking of you. Protecting the endless, nameless Outer Rim settlements became a torture . . . the battles were easy, the longing became unbearable . . . I've never been so happy as I am at this moment.
PADME: Annie, I want to have our baby back home on Naboo. We could go to the lake country where no one would know . . . where we would be safe. I could go early-and fix up the baby's room. I know the perfect spot, right by the gardens.
ANAKIN: You are so beautiful!
PADME: It's only because I'm so in love . . .
ANAKIN: No, it's because I'm so in love with you.
PADME: So love has blinded you?
ANAKIN: Well, that's not exactly what I meant . . .
PADME: But it's probably true!

They laugh.

ANAKIN: I haven't laughed in so long . . .
PADME: Neither have I.

Me: Neither have I!


Not to be to perverse, but, did George Lucas ever get laid? He CANNOT write romance.
I mean, what the hell is this?
For some reason, the "Hey, That's My Dinner" line has ALWAYS bothered me.
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I also watched ROTS on HBO and had the exact same response as the rest of you. It is just bad in so many places.

I actually think The Phantom Menace is the best of the Prequels. Which is a joke really.

War does not make one great.

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I agree, when I left the theater opening day I felt so good that and confident that Lucas had brought it all together. He did what I thought was impossible. Then after a few viewings from a screener copy a friend brought me from china, I started to see more and more problems and eventually I realized the truth, the PT as whole just sucks. Oh how I wish it wasn't so!

What I really think Anakin should have said when trying to lure Padme into joining him - "Whe don't have to run anymore. You and I can rule the galaxy together as husband and wife!" Reminicant of Vader and the whole "...rule as father and son!" obsession he has showing that he may desire power, but he doesn't want to do it alone. Ruling with family seems really important to him. But it all falls on deaf Lucas ears.

That would've been a good tye-in right there.

Not to be to perverse, but, did George Lucas ever get laid? He CANNOT write romance.


You're right Coldon, his romance dialogue in AOTC was just as weak.
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I still think ROTS holds up, even after watching it ten or twenty times. Palpatines dumb facial expressions, incessant cackling, Vader's "Nooo!" and Anakin and Padme's love-talk will never work but for me the rest of the film flows, more or less, very well. But to each his own.

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Whoa, the original poster got it spot on. That's EXACTLY how I felt. I thought it was great in theaters, but find it cheesy and laughable now. What the **** was the point of Grievous anyway? How did he serve the movie? His voice was horrible too. The first 25 minutes drag horribly, and also have horrible dialouge. It was only worth it to see what the clone wars were like, though it was executed badly. Also, I agree that the turn scene was poorly done. It wouldn't have been if Anakin had not questioned himself, just turned in that instant. There should have been no questioning, no akwardness. Just Anakin turning to the dark side.
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The whole turn, spread across the prequels and culminating in that one scene, was just very badly done. All that stuff about a good man being seduced by the dark side was never shown. Pure crap. The Jedi academy novels done a much better job of showing a dark side turn.

War does not make one great.

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I prefer watching the ADigitalMan version of ROTS - and am eagerly awaiting to see what MagnoliaFan can come up with...

The turning of Anaking to the Dark Side should have been central to the Prequel Trilogy - instead we got an insipid scene which would not be out of place on a kids tv show.


It seems that anything to do with Star Wars lately has been a disappointment - form the prequels to Lucas' comments and dvd decisions...



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Im probably in the minority but I still like and enjoy the film (as I did when first saw it last May) though not as much as the Star Wars or The Empire Strikes Back, It does have its "bad" moments IMO such as the balcony scene which I did groan at when I saw it the cinema, but it does have some good moments in it such as Order 66 and The Duel etc.

I personally think it is the best of the PT and like it as much as Return of the Jedi, though Jedi is maybe a better film.
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Uh, out of curiosity, isn't the '77 Star Wars film called.... uh... 'Star Wars'?
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Originally posted by: greencapt
Uh, out of curiosity, isn't the '77 Star Wars film called.... uh... 'Star Wars'?


Yeah I always call it Star Wars not ANH, I didnt mean to type it out like that, I have noticed it and changed it....
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teh prequels suck!!!11 and I will spend day after day, week after week, month after month, year after year posting about it, not to mention watching the movies I hate on on HBO!!!11 LUCAS$ DIE!!!1
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It's ironic how the acting in the OT was criticized- (Mark and Carrie's in particular) when I think Hayden and Natalie did worse acting jobs in the PT.

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Originally posted by: Mr Bungle
Originally posted by: greencapt
Uh, out of curiosity, isn't the '77 Star Wars film called.... uh... 'Star Wars'?


Yeah I always call it Star Wars not ANH, I didnt mean to type it out like that, I have noticed it and changed it....


LOL- I thought you thought like that!
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Originally posted by: Coldon
I almost got sick to my stomach with this bottom-of-the-cereal-box slice of dialogue:

73 INT. CORUSCANT-PADME'S APARTMENT-TWILIGHT
PADME stands in the balcony brushing her hair. ANAKIN leans against the wall, watching her lovingly.
ANAKIN: . . . every second I was thinking of you. Protecting the endless, nameless Outer Rim settlements became a torture . . . the battles were easy, the longing became unbearable . . . I've never been so happy as I am at this moment.
PADME: Annie, I want to have our baby back home on Naboo. We could go to the lake country where no one would know . . . where we would be safe. I could go early-and fix up the baby's room. I know the perfect spot, right by the gardens.
ANAKIN: You are so beautiful!
PADME: It's only because I'm so in love . . .
ANAKIN: No, it's because I'm so in love with you.
PADME: So love has blinded you?
ANAKIN: Well, that's not exactly what I meant . . .
PADME: But it's probably true!

They laugh.

ANAKIN: I haven't laughed in so long . . .
PADME: Neither have I.

Me: Neither have I!


Not to be to perverse, but, did George Lucas ever get laid? He CANNOT write romance.
I mean, what the hell is this?


And what was with Natalie Portman's creepy face when she reared it for the first time in the movie, during this dialogue?
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Originally posted by: nohandluke
I feel your pain man,



A lot of people still say Phantom Menace is the worst, and I see their perspective, but I disagree. The whole PT is bad, but the films suffer from the law of diminishing returns. At least with TPM, you had 16 years of anticipation without it coming in the wake of anything horrible (e.g., my guard was up for AOTC based on TPM, and when I saw ROTS I had no hope whatsoever) - you also had the most physical prequel in TPM, the most real sets and locations, and it was actually shot on film, which gives it a better look. Also, at least in TPM you actually had a Jedi-duo that was cool and worked well together - Neeson and McGregor (even though they didn't have enough to do and Neeson's character screwed continuity) - Yes, TPM had far too much childish crap, but I guess I forgive it more than the others because I wasn't yet wounded by previous prequels, everyone on opening night was positive and filled with hope before the film began unlike with the later movies and it was truly exciting to see some new Star Wars on the big screen...until it was over and my mouth was agape with shock and uncertainty.

Mike



I 100% agree with this whole statement. I'm glad to see others who think TPM is the best (or least worst) of the prequels. ROTS didn't work for me much at all, although I agree that the scene with Padme & Anakin in the apartment with no dialogue was absolutely excellent. In fact when I heard that Spielberg had helped film a scene, I automatically thought it was that one, just because it was a stark contrast to the rest of GL's clumsy directing. I just wish the other 6 hours and 58 minutes of the PT could be as good as that scene.

Anyway, while I don't care for ROTS, I consider AOTC far shittier for a multitude of reasons. Yeah yeah, the dialogue is terrible, the romance was forced, too many fake cgi creatures and enviroments, confusing plot, ect. But what really bothers me is that nothing important happens. It's 2 hours and 20 minutes of explaining why there's a clone army (which really needed no more that a minimal introduction), all while none of the characters develope whatsoever.

1) Obi-Wan doesn't change. In TPM, he goes from a sidekick who's green-behind-the-ears to a Sith-killer and mentor. In AOTC, he's still the same at the end as he was at the beginning and he treats the events that unfolded like they were a Wednesday afternoon at the quarry.

2) Yoda doesn't change. He goes from clueless to...still clueless. He knows something's up, just not what exactly it is. By the way we are at war now.

3) Mace doesn't change. Unfortunately, his dialogue in both TPM and AOTC is so stunted that we never really know who he is or what he's about.

4) Anakin doesn't change. I know...BUT HE KILLED TUSCAN RAIDERS!!!!1 However, if you to delete this scene and the reference afterwords, there is absolutely nothing in his dialogue or behavior to believe he changes at any time between the opening crawl and the credits. BTW this is sorta important since we now have ONE MOVIE for him to go from Jedi to Sith. Ugh.

5) Padme...hmm. I guess she and Anakin all in love and that is their character arc. However it is so forced that it becomes almost unlcear if they are actually developing as characters or not (just like Anakin's turn to the darkside).

Oh well, I'm done for now.

40,000 million notches away
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I agree that AOTC is far worse that ROTS or TPM.
I actually don't mind ep1 or ep3, I actually think Sith is quite watchable. I really liked it at the cinema, and have watched it about 20 times so far. (Had a half decent bootleg just after the cinema release)

I'm not trying to compare them to the OT, I just watch them for what they are....Quite entertaining films.

I do think that Sith should have been Ep2, and Ep3 should have been what really ties the two trilogys together. Obi-Wan trying to turn Anakin back, the twins being born then hidden, all the stuff we used to daydream about etc!

But there you go, we can't always get what we want!

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ROTS > AOTC > TPM

RotS and AotC were, to a great degree, letdowns. RotS dropped the one ball that the Prequel had to carry. AotC was a travelogue of the Outer Rim with a few artistic allusions to Aliens and Mega Man. TPM was not a letdown. It was actively, engagingly, aggressively, bad. It made me ashamed, which is strange, because I'm not responsible for it.
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This is why even Jedi is better than ROTS- no hayden and fewer plot holes.
(I think Lucas chose Hayden because he's his boyfriend, and that explains the whole Jedi ghost contreversy)