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Waiting for Episode VII during the lean years (1984-1998) — Page 3

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Originally posted by: Mielr<brI seem to recall Natalie Portman's accent changing, depending upon the outfit she was wearing. Her performance in TPM makes Carrie's performance seem downright brilliant in comparison.


LOL
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Who knows, time may be kind to the prequels, we'll have to see. It will be interesting to see if Lucas does anything to I-III next year, beyond digital Yoda. His frustration at the rough cut of Phantom Menace on the dvd doc was pretty clear, and the issues raised by Lucas and Ben Burtt (i.e. the "cluttered ending") didn't seem to be solved. I personally think Attack of the Clones is a train wreck, but the other 2 might have a shot at "clicking" better.
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He should just leave them alone, but we all know that even the prequels aren't safe from tinkering. Funny how "everyone" wants him to match the old movies to the prequels, but he's already changing the prequels. Then he'll have to change the OT to match the changes to the PT. And it's a never-ending cycle for some people's wallets. Not mine.

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I find myself amused that there is a George Lucas apologist in this thread, it brings back memories of those flame wars back in 1999...heh.

I'm not a Lucas hater per se, I take the good with the bad. I think that he redeemed himself with "Sith", showing some of the flashes of brilliance he displayed in eps 4-5. A case can be made that ep 3 is a better film than ROTJ, actually. If you think about it, ROTJ is closer to TPM and AOTC in terms of quality except that it has Luke Skywalker, Han Solo, Alec Guinness and Darth Vader in it, thus preventing it from being hated as much as the first two films of the prequels.

Maybe one day I'll get eps 1 & 2 on DVD on the premise that they're "so bad that they're actually good", lol. Or maybe there will be a "Special Edition" hack job of the PT that is so horrible that it will create the rationale for a www.originalprequeltrilogy.com petition site and I'll rush to the stores to get the DVDs before they're recalled by Lucasfilm.
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I actually remember having a dream or two that I was looking at the video section of a store, found a video labelled Star Wars but was in fact episode VII. Episodes VIII and IX were there too. I was so surprised in my dream. I woke up and thought, darn that dream was so cool!
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Dude, just....what? Thank the gods CGI didn't exist when George made the OT, or we wouldn't be here arguing for them against the PT, because he would have been so busy spending the meager budget on a planet being blown up. CGI is shit; CGI is overused and a fucking overused technical achievement. At least puppets are solid and real, and far more realistic than an obvious graphic that the actors aren't focusing on properly. They should have asked Bob Hoskins to give them a few pointers.

And yeah, so the OT had bad reviews. So did the PT, yes. But if you read reviews for any movie, they all have some in their closets somewhere. But I'll guarantee the PT's reviews are far more consistantly negative, if not downright critical of how shitty the movies became, whereas the OT was at least a moderately original movie with no prior storyline to ruin. And whereas the acting can also be blamed in part on a director who can't direct his way out of a paper bag, George really seemed to hit rock bottom with the PT. There's no subtlety. For shit's sake, Episode I is a weak copy of Episode IV! It isn't a trilogy, it's a cash cow with pretty pictures. Lucas had an excuse for his actors not always hitting their marks during a time when he was a less influential (and therefore less likely to haul in the big names for every role), but he doesn't have one when the PT is full of seasoned, well-known actors.

The day I saw Phantom Menace in the theatre, I sat during the credits absolutely stunned, wondering what the hell I had just seen. There was no meat to the story; there was no heart. Instead, I had wasted my money on a special effects masturbation when I had been expecting the equivalent of a heartfelt lovemaking session. A piece of shit that had contradicted the three movies before it within the first ten minutes that left me completely shocked. I wanted to cry.

Instead, I saved my money. I've watched I once, II twice, and III twice. And I never bought the DVDs. Perhaps if this big mondo super boxset comes out with the options of OOT versus OT (I mean, if Apocalypse effing Now can do it....) plus the PT, I'll finally buy them.
Something witty.
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Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic

The only reason Lucas didn't use a ton of CG in the classic trilogy was because -IT DIDN'T EXIST BACK THEN-.

If it had, you damned well better believe he would have used it.


I hate it when people strongly make assertions that can barely be supported with logic. There's no way you can know that, Go-Mer.

More importantly, though, you act as if the original Star Wars and Empire Strikes back were the creations of George Lucas only. There is so much he didn't bother to care about with those first two films and thus let other people handle or have input on those elements. So much of the character and warmth of the series had nothing to do with Lucas. Fart jokes are more his style.

"Now all Lucas has to do is make a cgi version of himself.  It will be better than the original and fit his original vision." - skyjedi2005

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Yes, Star Wars was almost unanimously praised. True, there were some bad reviews--not EVERY SINGLE PERSON loved it--but a good 90% gave it favourable reviews and most of those were highly favourable.

ESB on the other hand was very divided. Some loved it, some liked it, many did not. It still was overall favoured by it was very divided. ROTJ on the other hand was viciously criticised--there were still plenty who liked it, but the amount of backlash was almost as bad as the PT. I had to look up all the original reviews for a project I'm working on and ending up reading about 20 or so reviews for each from both major and minor newspapers. But ANH did not get bad reviews, in the general sense. It was one of the most praised film of the decade. Godfather and American Graffiti got a few negative reviews too, but like Star Wars 90% of them were absolutely glowing.
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Originally posted by: Guy Caballero
Who knows, time may be kind to the prequels, we'll have to see. It will be interesting to see if Lucas does anything to I-III next year, beyond digital Yoda. His frustration at the rough cut of Phantom Menace on the dvd doc was pretty clear, and the issues raised by Lucas and Ben Burtt (i.e. the "cluttered ending") didn't seem to be solved. I personally think Attack of the Clones is a train wreck, but the other 2 might have a shot at "clicking" better. He was worried that perhaps he was cutting between too many things at the ending, and while he has a point for some casual first time viewers, I didn't have any trouble following what was going on. I don't see what's wrong with AOTC. It has one of my favorite endings to all the Star Wars films. From the point where they are in the arena to the end credits, I think AOTC has some incredible pacing and some great action.

But that's just me.
Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape
He should just leave them alone, but we all know that even the prequels aren't safe from tinkering. Funny how "everyone" wants him to match the old movies to the prequels, but he's already changing the prequels. Then he'll have to change the OT to match the changes to the PT. And it's a never-ending cycle for some people's wallets. Not mine. His tinkering with the classic trilogy wasn't just to tie things up to the prequels (all I can think of is Hayden at the end of Jedi) most of the other things he has done (like replacing the monkey woman with the real Emperor) was done to make the classic trilogy match up to -itself-.

If you don't think it's worth your money, then you don't have to buy anything else he ever puts out (unless he releases a better transfer of the O-OT, but I think Lucas is going to save your wallet that particular strain). As always, you don't have to buy anything Lucas makes if you don't want to.
Originally posted by: cador
I find myself amused that there is a George Lucas apologist in this thread, it brings back memories of those flame wars back in 1999...heh.

I'm not a Lucas hater per se, I take the good with the bad. I think that he redeemed himself with "Sith", showing some of the flashes of brilliance he displayed in eps 4-5. A case can be made that ep 3 is a better film than ROTJ, actually. If you think about it, ROTJ is closer to TPM and AOTC in terms of quality except that it has Luke Skywalker, Han Solo, Alec Guinness and Darth Vader in it, thus preventing it from being hated as much as the first two films of the prequels.

Maybe one day I'll get eps 1 & 2 on DVD on the premise that they're "so bad that they're actually good", lol. Or maybe there will be a "Special Edition" hack job of the PT that is so horrible that it will create the rationale for a www.originalprequeltrilogy.com petition site and I'll rush to the stores to get the DVDs before they're recalled by Lucasfilm. I was there for the great basher/gusher war of 1999, man those days were "turbulent". I appreciate that some people don't like these films, and again if you don't like them, I implore you to not support them. But there were plenty of people who didn't think any of the Star Wars films were good, and that didn't matter to any of us when it came to the classic trilogy. Is there some reason I should care more about the people who don't like the prequels or some of the prequels as much? I respect it, but it doesn't change what these films mean to me as an individual, just as my loving them probably won't do much to change your opinions if you feel otherwise.
Originally posted by: Sokudo Ningyou
Dude, just....what? Thank the gods CGI didn't exist when George made the OT, or we wouldn't be here arguing for them against the PT, because he would have been so busy spending the meager budget on a planet being blown up. CGI is shit; CGI is overused and a fucking overused technical achievement. At least puppets are solid and real, and far more realistic than an obvious graphic that the actors aren't focusing on properly. They should have asked Bob Hoskins to give them a few pointers. I agree the eyelines weren't all there, and that is an unfortunate side effect of working with effects to be put in later. But it happened all the time even in the classic trilogy. Carrie Fisher was only looking at a peice of tape when she was reacting to her planet being blown up. When they were in the falcon's cockpit, they had to pretend they were looking at the same ships outside the cockpit, so they were all agreeing ahead of time where they should be looking. Some people are better at it than others, but I think for the most part they did a decent enough job that it works out if you are willing to work with the movie. To me, the puppets all looked like puppets. The biggest complaint about ROTJ was that it turned into the freaking muppet show. Of course I didn't complain about it, I just worked with the film and suspended my disbeleif for the sake of enjoying the story. Just like I did with the not so perfect eyelines and imperfectly lit CG characters. For my money, it was a whole lot easier to roll along with the CG aliens than the puppets, because they looked like they might actually be alive. But again, that's just me apparantly.
Originally posted by: Sokudo Ningyou
And yeah, so the OT had bad reviews. So did the PT, yes. But if you read reviews for any movie, they all have some in their closets somewhere. But I'll guarantee the PT's reviews are far more consistantly negative, if not downright critical of how shitty the movies became, whereas the OT was at least a moderately original movie with no prior storyline to ruin. The Prequels were actually better reviewed than the classic trilogy.Originally posted by: Sokudo Ningyou
And whereas the acting can also be blamed in part on a director who can't direct his way out of a paper bag, George really seemed to hit rock bottom with the PT. There's no subtlety. For shit's sake, Episode I is a weak copy of Episode IV! It isn't a trilogy, it's a cash cow with pretty pictures. Lucas had an excuse for his actors not always hitting their marks during a time when he was a less influential (and therefore less likely to haul in the big names for every role), but he doesn't have one when the PT is full of seasoned, well-known actors.
It's interesting that Lucas wrote and directed your apparant favorite in the series then. The reason the two trilogys mirror each other the way they do is to build up suspense for Luke. You see an example of the hero failing, so when you get to Luke's hero's story you aren't quite as sure he will prevail. Before the prequels, none of us ever had any doubt, because that's how most movies work. The hero has some tough times, but pulls it out of his ass in the end. With the prequels, we have a hero that literally goes over the edge. So when you see Luke on that same jounrey, being presented with the same kinds of problems, we aren't so sure he will lay down his saber by the end of the saga. He enters Jabba's palace looking like Anakin as he slaughtered the Jedi and the Separatist leaders. The whole climax of the series ends up packing a much greater dramatic punch as a result.Originally posted by: Sokudo Ningyou
The day I saw Phantom Menace in the theatre, I sat during the credits absolutely stunned, wondering what the hell I had just seen. There was no meat to the story; there was no heart. Instead, I had wasted my money on a special effects masturbation when I had been expecting the equivalent of a heartfelt lovemaking session. A piece of shit that had contradicted the three movies before it within the first ten minutes that left me completely shocked. I wanted to cry.
I found plenty of meat to the story (more than the classic trilogy I might add) plenty of heart, and didn't think the special effects were anything more than a means to telling that great story.

But again, that's just me apparantly.Originally posted by: Sokudo Ningyou
Instead, I saved my money. I've watched I once, II twice, and III twice. And I never bought the DVDs. Perhaps if this big mondo super boxset comes out with the options of OOT versus OT (I mean, if Apocalypse effing Now can do it....) plus the PT, I'll finally buy them.
It's no skin off my back if you don't.Originally posted by: Tiptup
I hate it when people strongly make assertions that can barely be supported with logic. There's no way you can know that, Go-Mer.
Lucas has -always- applied the most cutting edge effects to these films. Many people accuse the original Star Wars of being nothing more than a technical demo. Do you really think he wouldn't have used CG back then had it existed in as usable a way as it is now? Come on.Originally posted by: Tiptup
More importantly, though, you act as if the original Star Wars and Empire Strikes back were the creations of George Lucas only. There is so much he didn't bother to care about with those first two films and thus let other people handle or have input on those elements. So much of the character and warmth of the series had nothing to do with Lucas. Fart jokes are more his style.
I think it's pretty minimalistic to say the only thing Lucas really contributed to ANH and ESB was the inclination for fart jokes. He wrote the story even if he did have help polishing it (which he has actually had script polishing help on all 3 prequels too I might add). He was the primary creative force driving the bus on all 6 Star Wars films. He came up with the ideas, approved or disapproved of his artists attempt to render said vision, and he had the final say as to what stayed in and what got cut.
Your focus determines your reality.
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Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
His tinkering with the classic trilogy wasn't just to tie things up to the prequels (all I can think of is Hayden at the end of Jedi) most of the other things he has done (like replacing the monkey woman with the real Emperor) was done to make the classic trilogy match up to -itself-.


How about adding "Weesa free!" to the end of ROTJ so you essentially hear Jar Jar in the OT as well.

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Okay that's 2 changes out of the 370 changes they listed on the official site.
Your focus determines your reality.
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Originally posted by: zombie84
Yes, Star Wars was almost unanimously praised. True, there were some bad reviews--not EVERY SINGLE PERSON loved it--but a good 90% gave it favourable reviews and most of those were highly favourable.

ESB on the other hand was very divided. Some loved it, some liked it, many did not. It still was overall favoured by it was very divided. ROTJ on the other hand was viciously criticised--there were still plenty who liked it, but the amount of backlash was almost as bad as the PT.
I guess I didn't see any of those bad reviews, I'm not saying they don't exist, but I clearly remember watching Joel Siegel's review (on Good Morning America I think) and he gave it a glowing review, Siskel and Ebert also gave it 2 thumbs up, and I have several magazine/newpaper clippings from '83 that are all favorable. I think New York Magazine's review was luke-warm (no pun intended), but I may be wrong about that.

But it's true- if you dig around, you can find negative reviews for ANY movie.

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See that's my point. There will always be someone who doesn't like any given movie.

I just don't understand why some of you feel you should have liked the newer ones is all.

Maybe they just aren't your cup of tea is all.
Your focus determines your reality.
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Critics are one thing. People who write on the internet is one thing. The other 99% of humans is the main thing. The audience cheering repeatedly during Jedi is burned into my memory. They cheered at Lando revealing himself. They went insane when Darth dumped the emperor down the shaft. This was a regular weekday audience at a neighborhood theater long after opening day. I've not seen that since. It was a lot for the prequels to live up to, and probably impossible. There is a LOT of good stuff in the new movies, including II. It's not like Jaws 4, where you can just completely write it off.
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I remember people cheering when the characters appeared in TPM on opening night.

I remember people cheering when Yoda showed up with the clones in AOTC.

I remember people cheering when Anakin cut off DooKu's head (a little morbid, but they were excited).

This whole 99% of people don't like the new ones is a tad on the delusional side if you ask me.

At the end of the day, -enough- people liked them, that the people who didn't really weren't an issue.
Your focus determines your reality.
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Originally posted by: cador

I'm not a Lucas hater per se, I take the good with the bad. I think that he redeemed himself with "Sith", showing some of the flashes of brilliance he displayed in eps 4-5. A case can be made that ep 3 is a better film than ROTJ, actually. If you think about it, ROTJ is closer to TPM and AOTC in terms of quality except that it has Luke Skywalker, Han Solo, Alec Guinness and Darth Vader in it, thus preventing it from being hated as much as the first two films of the prequels.


I wish people would stop bashing Return of the Jedi. What was wrong with it? The Ewoks weren't that annoying, in fact, they had a big and important role in the film, and I didn't find them nearly as annoying as the jawas in Star Wars. I think it was a very good endnig to the saga, except that Boba Fett didn't exactly get the kind of send off that was proper.

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I wish people would stop bashing all the Star Wars films.
Your focus determines your reality.
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WEll let's see. Star Wars was nominated for a bunch of Oscars including best picture (a RARITY for scifi/adventure films), best director, best supporting actor (Alec Guiness) and best screenplay.

Meanwhile, Empire got a rave review from the Washington Post's Gary Arnold and the almost impossible to please Pauline Kael. And in the years since Empire came out, it only became more and more critically acclaimed. I don't see that happening with Phantom Menace which came over over 7 years ago.
George Lucas was seduced by the dark side. The OOT ceased to exist in his mind and became the Special Editions...." "They're more maching now than movies. Twisted and evil."
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Originally posted byarth_Evil

I wish people would stop bashing Return of the Jedi. What was wrong with it? The Ewoks weren't that annoying, in fact, they had a big and important role in the film, and I didn't find them nearly as annoying as the jawas in Star Wars. I think it was a very good endnig to the saga, except that Boba Fett didn't exactly get the kind of send off that was proper.



The reason fans like myself bash ROTJ, is because it is not of the quality of SW & ESB. When you look at ROTJ as just a sequel compared to many other sequels, it is a really good film. But when you compare it to SW & ESB, you are following true greatness, and that is why fans are so tough on it.

The same goes for the PT, if they were just a set of films put out in the last 7 years, they would be OK, or entertaining when it comes on HBO, but nothing special. But compare it to the OT, and the films pale in comparision. But that is what happens when you marry the 6 movies together, and have one story, you look at them all together as one entity.

And for whoever said ROTS is better than ROTJ, I disagree, it is on par with ROTJ, they have really great moments and really bad moments. The problem with ROTS is, I call it Episode III: The Movie Montage. The last hour is a just a collection of undeveloped scenes that we all waited 20 years for, showed by Lucas set to music, and that is it. ROTS is average at best as a movie, but the plot points are what make it interesting and that is why many fans think it is so good. To me it is like a Greatest Hits CD that I have of several of my favorite bands, so I don't have take all their individual CD's in my truck with me. Maybe I should call it, Episode III: The PT's Greatest Hits.

I mean in all honesty, what do you see in the last hour that any of us diehard SW fans couldn't have done on screen. Lets see: Show Bail Organa delivering Leia to Alderran for 10 seconds, check. Have Yoda say Leia goes to Alderran, and Luke goes to Tatooine. Show Vader being built for 15 seconds, and then he rises from the table, check. Have a lightsaber duel over a volcano that goes on too long, and has zero drama in it, and just let them flail at each other. The only reason anyone of us like ROTS, is it is a collection of cool images we were hoping to see since 1983, but overall it is not a great movie.
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Here is a link to Gary Arnold's review on Empire from 1980:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/03/AR2005050301187.html
George Lucas was seduced by the dark side. The OOT ceased to exist in his mind and became the Special Editions...." "They're more maching now than movies. Twisted and evil."
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Roger Ebert gave TPM a glowing review, and as time goes on, more and more people are warming up to TPM.

You have to agree some of the vitrol TPM faced -was- due to some seriously unmeetable expectations (understandable given SW's legacy up until that point). But as the emotional responses give way to more reasoned analasis, more people are giving TPM it's fair due.

For my part, what makes any one of these 6 films great makes them all great.

To me, this is all one big 12-14 hour film, and I think Lucas has accomplished far more than most other film makers will ever hope to do in their own lifetimes.

They aren't perfect, but way better than most in my opinion.
Your focus determines your reality.
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Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
Lucas has -always- applied the most cutting edge effects to these films. Many people accuse the original Star Wars of being nothing more than a technical demo. Do you really think he wouldn't have used CG back then had it existed in as usable a way as it is now? Come on.

I would think it is likely that he would have used CG to enhance special effect shots, but beyond that light assertion of mine, you are talking about a very different man and a very different time. You have no idea if CG would have been as attractive to him then as it is now. His latest movies had so much useless CG that the emotional impact of the films is destroyed (and where the hell were the stories for that matter?). I would lose a lot of respect for the younger Lucas if his artistic sensibilities were no different at that time than they are now.


Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
I think it's pretty minimalistic to say the only thing Lucas really contributed to ANH and ESB was the inclination for fart jokes.


And who is saying that?


Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
He wrote the story even if he did have help polishing it (which he has actually had script polishing help on all 3 prequels too I might add). He was the primary creative force driving the bus on all 6 Star Wars films. He came up with the ideas, approved or disapproved of his artists attempt to render said vision, and he had the final say as to what stayed in and what got cut.


Lucas was not the primary creative force on Star Wars. He was the primary organizational force. When it came to the artistic creativity of that initial movie, I would argue that many of the people working for Lucas input more value into the films than even he did. That is not to say that Lucas did not achieve a lot on the artistic end himself, but that it was far more of a group effort than some singular work of a mastermind. If you wish to argue this point I can provide you with many exhaustive reasons for what I say.

In Jedi and the prequels Lucas took more creative control for himself and began surrounding himself with cowards that wouldn't contradict him, all for the sake of making more money, and his films suffered as a result. His logically cold, simple, and very generic concepts were left to stand on their own. George Lucas is not any kind of artistic genius. He has good initial ideas but beyond that he doesn’t know when to quit.

As for his ability to make good artistic-management decisions, that may have worked for one or two films, but as the number of films grew, it should become very clear that Lucas does not have the mental capacity to properly manage a mammoth-scaled work of art. His conceptual focus for the supposed "saga" became too contradictory, hypocritical, and laughably ridiculous. This is objective fact, and not subjective opinion. The prequel trilogy is a set of mediocre and horrible films. And of course, as you like to say, George can believe otherwise as their creator, but then of course he would be very wrong.

"Now all Lucas has to do is make a cgi version of himself.  It will be better than the original and fit his original vision." - skyjedi2005

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You know i have always felt that TPM was very harshly treated, but even with all the hype, with all the expectations, it still is a bit dissapointing. It wasn't at all like i thought it would be but i still mostly liked it but thats more because I'm a star Wars nut and would give the films so much leeway. And i don't think you can count all the above factors into the masssive wide dissapointment over the first two prequels. TPM was much more innocent and kid-friendly but people would have loved it if it was engaging and well made--the same way people loved Fellowship of the Ring and Harry Potter, which are very similar in tone and premise. ESB also is the COMPLETE opposite to what a sequel to ANH was expected to be but most fans feel this is even superior to the original, so its not about expectations. The truth is that it was poorly directed, badly written, awkwardly edited and overall not engaging or compelling, except for in the category of visual FX, which was purely due to the budget and technology. The experience of watching the films was dazzling because of the jam-packed frames and the sheer overwhelment of FX--in fact if you read Eberts actual review this is all that he talks about. But once that wears off and you actually look at the content theres not much there. Not that its terrible--that status goes to AOTC--but it certainly is justified in its designation as "dissapointing." And sure, many kids liked TPM--but kids don't have high standards. They also love Power Rangers The Movie, and Bad Boys 2. The true test of a great film is if adults can enjoy it as much as kids. The Lion King is a prime example of this, and any typical Pixard film, all of which i don't think any adult would classify as "dissapointing" or "just okay" the way most fans do for the PT.

Really i think we are spoiled when it comes to Star Wars because the first two were as good as any films possibly could be. ROTJ on its own is pretty lame in most places but it rides on the coat-tails of ESB so most go along with it, even if its "imperfect." The PT however not only is much worse than ROTJ but it can't be carried on the strength of movies before it. Really, is it any surprise that only half of a series is actually "good" and only 1/4 is actually "great"? Most series only have the first one or two films actually be worthwhile. Star Trek has about half the films being crappy, and of the ones that are worthwhile only two or three are actually "good." Most people feel the same way about Terminator, Aliens, Matrix and many other such franchises. Its simply inevitable. Its a law of averages. Not every film can be a hit. Maybe you enjoy the series overall but certainly theres no point in living in denial that some entries are lousy. I love the Star Wars series but as more time goes on and I view them with more and more objectivity now that the SW hoopla has died down i can see that the reason i loved the PT so much was because it was exciting to have more star wars films--i love the world so much that i even read some of the EU books, many of which are among the worst literature i have read. I think most people love the sequels so much because they simply lower their standards when it comes to Star Wars. Many people who love the PT as much as i love the OT also like movies that i would classify as "crappy" as well and its only fuelled my belief that most people are fucking morons when it comes to film. Its no wonder why Jerry Bruckheimer makes $200 million every time he releases a film but most people have never even heard of Wong Kar Wai and would find his films "dumb" and "boring" if they ever saw one.
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Originally posted by: CO
The reason fans like myself bash ROTJ, is because it is not of the quality of SW & ESB. When you look at ROTJ as just a sequel compared to many other sequels, it is a really good film. But when you compare it to SW & ESB, you are following true greatness, and that is why fans are so tough on it.


I would rate ROTJ a *** (out of 4) film, while ANH and ESB are **** classics. ROTJ is not a bad film by any means, I did find it very entertaining.

And for whoever said ROTS is better than ROTJ, I disagree, it is on par with ROTJ, they have really great moments and really bad moments. The problem with ROTS is, I call it Episode III: The Movie Montage. The last hour is a just a collection of undeveloped scenes that we all waited 20 years for, showed by Lucas set to music, and that is it. ROTS is average at best as a movie, but the plot points are what make it interesting and that is why many fans think it is so good. To me it is like a Greatest Hits CD that I have of several of my favorite bands, so I don't have take all their individual CD's in my truck with me. Maybe I should call it, Episode III: The PT's Greatest Hits.

I mean in all honesty, what do you see in the last hour that any of us diehard SW fans couldn't have done on screen. Lets see: Show Bail Organa delivering Leia to Alderran for 10 seconds, check. Have Yoda say Leia goes to Alderran, and Luke goes to Tatooine. Show Vader being built for 15 seconds, and then he rises from the table, check. Have a lightsaber duel over a volcano that goes on too long, and has zero drama in it, and just let them flail at each other. The only reason anyone of us like ROTS, is it is a collection of cool images we were hoping to see since 1983, but overall it is not a great movie.


I rate both TPM and AOTC ** while I consider ROTS to be *** 1/2. Maybe it is a retread and could be considered a "Greatest Hits" package (I'll concede that point to a certain extent), but after 6 films, I was surprised that old George Lucas was able to pull it off. I went in with very low expectations and to just satisfy my curiosity, and I liked it enough to go for a repeat viewing and buy it on DVD. I think that Anakin's acting performance was 100 times better than it was in the previous film. The only weakness is that not enough was done to provide motivation for Anakin's turn (although I really liked the line, "From my point of view, the Jedi are evil"). "Nooooooo!!!!" was kind of corny, but I sort of liked it.

So I think that Star Wars fans fall into these categories:

1. Lucas apologists who think that the prequels and the SEs are far superior to the OOT. Greedo really shot first. And Jar Jar is simply awesome.
2. The casual fan who goes with the flow: prefers the OOT and doesn't care much for Jar Jar but still enjoys Eps. 1-6 as a whole
3. Those who prefer the OOT + Revenge of the Sith, hates TPM + AOTC.
4. Those who only like the OOT and hate all of the prequels
5. Those who only like ANH & ESB and hate ROTJ
6. Traditionalists who disregard the secondary title "A New Hope" and consider "The Adventures of Luke Starkiller" to be the only TRUE Star Wars.