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Virginia Tech shooting — Page 4

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Originally posted by: sean wookie
No one in that country wants that to happen again...EVER.



Are we talking about the shooting or the Holocaust?


Both. We can prevent the Holocaust from happening again though. Measures can be taken to prevent the shooting, but no measure is going to keep it from possibly happening again.
F Scale score - 3.3333333333333335

You are disciplined but tolerant; a true American.

Pissing off Rob since August 2007.
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Originally posted by: lordjedi
Originally posted by: sean wookie
No one in that country wants that to happen again...EVER.



Are we talking about the shooting or the Holocaust?


Both. We can prevent the Holocaust from happening again though. Measures can be taken to prevent the shooting, but no measure is going to keep it from possibly happening again.


What about the democides happening around the world right now?
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Nah, I think cars are a much bigger threat to our safety. I like how it is never suggested to ban alchohol on account of deaths from drunk drivers, but the obvious and "easy" solution to troubled people going on rampages is to ban guns. That would be great! Because then only criminals would have guns! In fact, I think our police force should not be armed either, lets go all out European here! Policemen armed only with nightclubs. What do you think about that ferris? Sounds fun right? Am I right in assuming you would turn in your resignation the very next day if that happened? I am sure your job can be scary enough at times even with a pistol cliped to you side.

Someone, mentioned that if they banned guns people would still find ways to kill, then somebody else said that you couldn't kill that many people with any other weapon. That is a good point to a small degree. But what about explosives? I am no chemist, but from what I understand they are not too impossible to make with fairly easy to obtain material. That could do a good deal of damage, perhaps a could deal more than 32 dead. Even with a car you could probably nail a good deal a casualties in a very short and swift amount of time. Imagine plowing through an outside eating area of a resturant. Or a large line outside of a cinema. You could deal out a good amount of damage. I admit, 32 might be a bit of a challenge though. If you could get good with a bow, you might could take out a good deal in a short amount of time, much more stealthy than a gun aswell. I can shoot one pretty fast and pretty accurately myself, though I am not pro. I would have to admit 32 targets in that amount of time would be extremely hard. You could gas a dormitory while they are asleep. That would rack up a high death toll pretty quick.

My point is that the invention of the gun was by no means the invention of violence. By no means. Genocides have taken place long before the invention of the gun. Wars were fought, domestic desputes turned violent, people were murdered, all before the invention of the gun. Even if by some odd miracle guns were to cease to exist, people would still be killing people. Does anybody thing we might not ought to go to the source of the situation, people. Wouldn't that be more productive? I know that is what we have been talking about the whole time in here, and I was a big participant in, but doesn't anybody else find it annoying that things like this are used to springboard anti-gun campaigns? Before the blood is even cold we are singing out the evils that are guns and that it is all the fault of guns. Judging by some of the articles I have read, the kid doesn't sound like he was an great guy who one day just snapped, from the sounds of things this was a long time coming. As was McVeigh, and were the shooters in the Columbine case, as were the people involved in just about ever other case like this. Maybe this case is (should be) no more about guns than the incident of a man beating his co-worker to death with a hammer should be about hammers. Child molesters, what is our excuse there? I am sure banning guns would put a hault to that perversion.

Maybe we need to look out for our brothers a little bit better. America had a pretty distinct feel of "I am sorry, I don't have time for you!" that I haven't felt in any other country. I meet a lot of foreigners from all different parts of the sphere and one of the first things they always say about America is how cold and unpersonal we are. Something to think about.



EDIT: Holy crap I wrote a freaken long post. If you skip over my post for the sake of its lenght, please at least read the very last paragraph.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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I read the whole thing, and I agree wholeheartedly.

This story has links to the videos that Cho sent to NBC. Particularly of note to me is how he compares his own impending death to that of Jesus Christ. In theory "defending the weak and helpless," or whatever it is he said, is a good cause, but I don't think Jesus took 32 people with him when he died.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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He was a disturbed individual, that's really all there is to it. He didn't just snap and kill a bunch of people, he was mentally unstable. He had a history, but I'm still not sure this could have been prevented. People are targetting the guns because there's nothing else left to target. The students are dead and Cho is dead. There's nothing left to blame except his parents and the guns. I don't think he played video games, so they can't blame that. All they can do is say "Look, he used a gun, let's enact more gun laws to keep this from happening again". What they're all failing to recognize is that they may not be able to keep this from happening again. All you can really do is prepare yourself for the worst and hope it doesn't happen again.
F Scale score - 3.3333333333333335

You are disciplined but tolerant; a true American.

Pissing off Rob since August 2007.
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He is Korean I wouldn't be surprised if he played Starcraft or Counter Strike.
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Have you seen what he sent to MSNBC between the shootings?
Fez: I am so excited about Star Whores.
Hyde: Fezzy, man, it's Star Wars.
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This is what they found in his room.

• Chain from top left closet shelf
• Folding knife & combination padlock
• Compaq computer from desktop
• Assorted documents, notepads, writings from desktop
• Combination lock
• Dremel tool and case
• Nine books, two notebooks, envelopes, from top shelf
• Assorted books & pads from lower shelf
• Compact discs from desktops
• Items from desktop & drawers: winchester multi tool, 3 notebooks, mail, checks, credit card
• Items from 2nd door: Kodak digital camera, Citibank statement
• Two cases of compact discs from dresser top
• Drive: Seagate: 80 Gb
• Six sheets of green computer paper
• Mirror with blue plastic housing
• Dremel tool box with receipt
• Dell Latitude service tag
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Originally posted by: sean wookie
He is Korean I wouldn't be surprised if he played Starcraft or Counter Strike.


Yeah, I mean, who ever heard of a Korean who didn't play Counter Strike or StarCraft? That would be nutz!

Hmm, didn't mention finding a 360 in his room. I am not sure how relevant it would be if he did play games. I am willing to bet he did for two reasons
1) Most university students his age do, so the chances are pretty good
2) The whole duel gun thing. All my friends who are big gamers, it seems like the first time I take them to play paintball, they make some stupid comment asking if they can have two guns. Or the hold the dang thing side ways and shoot. But then again, this guy seems to have just wanted as many shots as he could get (but a .22, are you kidding? It is like he wanted to save money on ammo or something).

Also that package he sent to MSNBC is kind of the final nail in the disturbed coffin.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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How much mm is .22? 5.56mm? That's the same sized bullets used in an m16 right? Although it has a lot less powder.
Fez: I am so excited about Star Whores.
Hyde: Fezzy, man, it's Star Wars.
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That's correct.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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The top one really reminds me of something...I think I like bullets!
http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/5549/55622compare3ht2.jpg

HARMY RULES

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This pisses me off. It says that a college student in Colorado, I believe, was arrested for saying things in class sympathetic to Cho's massacre. While I can't imagine it being a very popular view, last I checked, it was hardly a crime to hold a contrary viewpoint. So, of course, everybody's going to be paranoid for awhile and crack down on anybody who could possibly be conceived as a potential threat.

I also read another article lately that, not surprisingly, leans in the direction of Cho being a social misfit and having been bullied for years. Like I said, I don't find it surprising and have sort of been waiting for something like this to be said, because that's usually the motivation for school shootings. It said that in middle school he was pushed around a lot. And there was a particular instance in high school where a classmate said he was forced to read in front of the class and was immediately made fun of for his accent and told to "Go back to China." Don't misunderstand me at all. I'm not defending his decision to murder nearly three dozen people. Nothing justifies that. But it really pisses me off how people, especially kids, treat one another. If you're going to find something to target, don't have it be gun control or *pff* video games, neither of which seemingly have any real bearing on this situation at all. Bring up your kids to be nice to be nice to each other and not to be little yuppie assholes who bully and victimize everybody who's different. Whether or not that would have had any effect on Cho going crazy and murdering his classmates, you can't argue that it wouldn't do any good for society in general.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Being bullied is usually one of the things that causes people to do this.

But millions of people are and have been bullied, and these school shootings are still rare enough to be exceptional, not the norm. It's not bullying that's the direct cause; perhaps a contributing factor, but that's all. The real problem is a combination of things. It seems to me this guy was beyond narcissistic. How else do you explain him sending that video to NBC? And the contents of it, from what I've heard, seem to be him railing at 'rich kids' and trust fund babies. In other words, he was self-absorbed and jealous, not to mention likely clinically depressed and on some medication.

The level to which this was planned also showed that he didn't just 'explode' and kill a bunch of people. He was methodical, and knew exactly what he was doing.

As for the guy being arrested, I can't say I'm terribly sympathetic to him personally, and I'd say he needs a good beating, but I really don't like the idea of arresting a guy for words. Unless he actually called for someone's murder, of course.

4

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Originally posted by: Darth Chaltab
Being bullied is usually one of the things that causes people to do this.

But millions of people are and have been bullied, and these school shootings are still rare enough to be exceptional, not the norm. It's not bullying that's the direct cause; perhaps a contributing factor, but that's all. The real problem is a combination of things. It seems to me this guy was beyond narcissistic. How else do you explain him sending that video to NBC? And the contents of it, from what I've heard, seem to be him railing at 'rich kids' and trust fund babies. In other words, he was self-absorbed and jealous, not to mention likely clinically depressed and on some medication.

The level to which this was planned also showed that he didn't just 'explode' and kill a bunch of people. He was methodical, and knew exactly what he was doing.

As for the guy being arrested, I can't say I'm terribly sympathetic to him personally, and I'd say he needs a good beating, but I really don't like the idea of arresting a guy for words. Unless he actually called for someone's murder, of course.


Well, it could have a lot to to with how he said it. The supreme court as ruled that not all speech is protected, specifically if it causes a disturbance. In example, if a man yells "Fire!" in a crowded theater in order to incite chaos then he is guilty of a breach of the peace. This guy probably has a history of something odd and then the way he said whatever he was thinking could have been taken as a threat by the rest of the students if it is supported by his history, tone of voice, and exactly what was said, if it meets all of those then I find it justified.
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So has anybody else heard the backlash aimed at NBC for choosing to air the videos that Cho sent to them? I'm honestly glad I got to see them. They were a bit chilling to watch, but it was an interesting look at a killer. I can understand how families of the victims might not particularly appreciate seeing it, but I do feel that it qualifies as news and should be seen.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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The 'american dream' shattered yet again. To be honest I couldn't give a flying f*ck.
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To my definition the American dream is make a lot of money by doing as little as possible. It's why I love America.
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Originally posted by: sean wookie
Worth a double post.
Video of Jack Thompson on hardball. http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/hardball/clip-jack-thompson-gets-hardballed-253501.php


Also look what my hero and greatest man in radio said.
Howard Stern eloquently expressed his opinion about Dr. Phil this morning after hearing the doc’s comments on video games and the Virginia Tech massacre:

“He’s a fucking asshole!”

You’ll have to excuse me because that’s the only direct quote I could get down, the following are half-quotes, half-paraphrased. If anyone can provide a clip of the actual audio, it would be greatly appreciated.

Howard, Robin, and other in-studio personalities ridiculed the idea that video games could have caused the shootings, sarcastically suggesting that “Hitler played Donkey Kong” and “Osama Bin Laden played Grand Theft Auto.”

Howard went on to explain, “You know the reason why Dr. Phil is an asshole? …because whenever something like this happens he wants to play the ‘blame game’.” He and Robin both commented that many people play video games “all day and all night” and do not act out violently. Howard sarcastically remarked that blame is always placed on “the movies or something.” He then concluded the discussion saying what many gamers have been saying for years, “This is so stupid.”

The self-proclaimed “King of All Media” is known as a staunch protector and advocate of First Amendment rights. His show can be heard on Sirius Satellite Radio from 6am to around 11am Monday through Thursday.

Ba-Ba-Bouey!
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Maybe people should go to classes on gun safety to get a gun so accidents don't happen. Better yet they should crackdown on illegal gun sellers by 1000%.
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I can see I didn't miss much in here. I'll post a real response later tonight once I get home and get time to relax. I'm sure this thread will help with the relaxing bit a whole lot
F Scale score - 3.3333333333333335

You are disciplined but tolerant; a true American.

Pissing off Rob since August 2007.
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Originally posted by: sean wookie
Maybe people should go to classes on gun safety to get a gun so accidents don't happen. Better yet they should crackdown on illegal gun sellers by 1000%.


Yeah, I hate how there are so many illegal gun seller just there selling arms at comic cons. Really erks me. The FBI comes in all the time and takes all their arms, cuffs the guys and take them away only to release them 30 minutes later so they can go to their storage units, pick up a couple more boxes of illegal guns and be back at the comic con the next day. Crazy stuff.

On a serious note, black market arms are not such an easy thing to crack down on. Both parties in such a transaction have a pretty good motivation for keeping their mouths shut, and it is not a game you play lightly. It isn't drugs, anybody buying a gun on the black market probably has a reason for not buying it legally.

Gun shows are something else however. I have often heard claims that it is really easy to get firearms at these things, but never having been to one myself I can't really say anything about that. Only that all the people I know who frequent gun shows says that this is a bunch of BS. On top of that, I don't think there was a single one of these rampages where it turned out the gun was obtained from a gun show, if that is in fact true then I would say gun shows are not as big of an evil as I often hear them portrayed.

EDIT: I like how there are airsoft gun banners are poping up because of our extreme usage of the word "gun"

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape