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Virginia Tech shooting — Page 2

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Originally posted by: lordjedi


Generally speaking only 10 due to the Federal High Capacity magazine ban from several years ago. Scratch that. I just checked Wikipedia. That ban expired in 2004. In that case, without knowing the exact model of the guns, I'd go with the high end. A Glock 19 (9mm) has a 15 round capacity. A Glock 18 can use a high capacity magazine that carries 33 rounds, but I doubt he had one of these. The magazine is gigantic and doesn't look like it could easily be hidden. As for a 22, those can have as many as 18 rounds. So the two guns combined along with 2 clips for each weapon to reload with could have killed 33 people.

How many were wounded?


These were 9mm so I would assume 10 - 15 rounds. If that is the case twenty to thirty shots per gun, not to mention it is terribly easy to reload. Even if he only had the two clips, you can load one of those things in less than a minute.

Originally posted by: sean wookie
I'm guessing he planned and trained to a very large extent maybe for months. Judging that he only had 2 hand guns.


What makes you guess that? I would bet anybody who has never even touch a gun before could do just as much damage as this guy did. In fact, I would say the two guns would be evidence against his having trained (that is assuming he used them both at once, rather than having one holstered and the other in use), as you can be much more accurate with one gun, but to reasonably aim and shoot with two guns at the same time is a bit of a fairytale. I would also say that the fact that he was using two guns also makes it very likely that he was a gamer.


As far as closing down the campus or giving a better warning, that doesn't really hold up. Like somebody said, this is a University campus, not a high school. It would be just like evacuating a small city for the sake of a murder case. Finding two people dead doesn't scream out "rampage" when there is a rampage you expect it to be over and done by the time the police arrive or to turn into a hostage situation perhaps. You find two people dead and it looks an awful lot like a simple murder case. Also one of the two was an R.A., he is the one who is suppose to attend to dorm residence when they need help. In this case it would be likely to assume he was simply doing his job and trying to intervien in a dispute which unfortunately turned violent. In these cases it is pretty much assured the killer will flee. The administration couldn't have done anything. A usual rampage pops out of know where and people die. In this case there was a sort of "warning" but there was nothing in that warning to indicate that it was anything more than a simple dispute turned violent.

If they did have an alarm system go off, it would sent the campus into chaos, and very likely more people would die. A P.A. system that could cover the whole campus is about as likely as a P.A. system covering a whole city. And you wouldn't want to come on it and say that there has been a murder on campus because chances are it was simply that, just a murder. All you are going to do is throw people into panic. Nobody could have forseen what was coming. They need to leave the administration alone. It was no more their faults than it was the faults of the victims. If there had been a call after the murder with a threat that they were going to go on a rampage, then it would have been time to track down all students and evacuate them. However, this was not the case.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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My kid's grammar school has a system that will lockup the entire school if there's even so much as a problem in the neighborhood. Last year there was a fire about 1/4 mile away that triggered a lock-down. There's no excuse in this day and age after Columbine to NOT have a lockdown or alert system of some type, even at the college level.
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Originally posted by: C3PX
If they did have an alarm system go off, it would sent the campus into chaos, and very likely more people would die. A P.A. system that could cover the whole campus is about as likely as a P.A. system covering a whole city. And you wouldn't want to come on it and say that there has been a murder on campus because chances are it was simply that, just a murder. All you are going to do is throw people into panic. Nobody could have forseen what was coming. They need to leave the administration alone. It was no more their faults than it was the faults of the victims. If there had been a call after the murder with a threat that they were going to go on a rampage, then it would have been time to track down all students and evacuate them. However, this was not the case.


Just as a point of clarification, PA systems covering whole cities have been used in the past. Think of an air raid horn. The concept is the same, but instead of having a horn, you'd have someone's voice.

I'm not saying they could have done more. I'm honestly not sure that they could have. I'm just saying that it's worth looking at. If the system can't be improved, then it can't be improved and it's that simple. Perhaps the best thing that could be done is what was done: text messaging and video phones were put to good use.
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I think Jed's on the right track. A university or not, there needs to be a school-wide PA system or something to notify everyone as quickly as possible. Most students don't check their email every thirty minutes. I don't think the university staff should be fired; it's easy to second guess them now, but they reacted at the time the way they thought was right.

But there definitely need to be changes in the way crises are handled.

4

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Students who were in Norris noted the speed and skill with which he reloaded. He wasn't a newcomer to handguns, that is for certain. It will be interesting to see who sold them to him. After all, he was a resident alien, NOT a citizen, despite having lived here since he was a child. So he did NOT have a right to bear these arms. The serial numbers were filed of but I hope like hell ATF can identify its lineage. I'm optimistic they will.

On a totally irrelevant bit of "character development," his parents owned a dry cleaning store in Fairfax County. How is that for reinforcing a stereotype?
I am fluent in over six million forms of procrastination.
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Originally posted by: ADigitalMan
The serial numbers were filed of but I hope like hell ATF can identify its lineage. I'm optimistic they will.


Has this been confirmed by the police? Seems a little unnecessary given that he must have known if he didn't kill himself that he'd have been caught.
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Also of note in this crisis is how the European press is accusing an old-man who suffers from Alzheimer's of being at the root of this problem.

Article

This is amusing coming from societies that live as quasi-police states.
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tragic

I love everybody. Lets all smoke some reefer and chill. Hug and kisses for everybody.

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Originally posted by: JediSage
Originally posted by: ADigitalMan
The serial numbers were filed of but I hope like hell ATF can identify its lineage. I'm optimistic they will.


Has this been confirmed by the police? Seems a little unnecessary given that he must have known if he didn't kill himself that he'd have been caught.

If the numbers are filed out doesn't it mean he probably got them illegally somewhere? No gun control law would have prevented this tragedy in that case, would it?
Fez: I am so excited about Star Whores.
Hyde: Fezzy, man, it's Star Wars.
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I just read a minute ago that it's already been confirmed where he bought the guns, and that he was within his legal rights to buy them.

"One law enforcement official said Cho's backpack contained a receipt for a March purchase of a Glock 9 mm pistol. Cho held a green card, meaning he was a legal, permanent resident, federal officials said. That meant he was eligible to buy a handgun unless he had been convicted of a felony.

Roanoke Firearms owner John Markell said his shop sold the Glock and a box of practice ammo to Cho 36 days ago for $571.

"He was a nice, clean-cut college kid. We won't sell a gun if we have any idea at all that a purchase is suspicious," Markell said. Markell said it is not unusual for college kids to make purchases at his shop as long as they are old enough.""


Story

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Check out these guns
http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/3599/shaneflexingmr8.jpg

HARMY RULES

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Originally posted by: JediSage
Also of note in this crisis is how the European press is accusing an old-man who suffers from Alzheimer's of being at the root of this problem.

Article

This is amusing coming from societies that live as quasi-police states.



Europeans are so gay.

HARMY RULES

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Originally posted by: Arnie.d
Originally posted by: JediSage
Originally posted by: ADigitalMan
The serial numbers were filed of but I hope like hell ATF can identify its lineage. I'm optimistic they will.


Has this been confirmed by the police? Seems a little unnecessary given that he must have known if he didn't kill himself that he'd have been caught.

If the numbers are filed out doesn't it mean he probably got them illegally somewhere? No gun control law would have prevented this tragedy in that case, would it?


No. It means the numbers were filed off at some point. It's quite possible that he filed them off himself.

No gun control law would have prevented this, period.

I wonder how many of the other students have ever been out shooting targets. A Glock is not a complicated weapon to fire or reload. The 22 he had probably isn't complicated either. Being able to quickly shoot and reload with those weapons is not a big accomplishment. Anyone with any exposure to firearms would be able to do so quickly. He wouldn't need more than a few sessions at a shooting range and there was more than enough time for that.
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Originally posted by: JediSage
This is amusing coming from societies that live as quasi-police states.
Tehee. It's really surprising how the bush administration's trend towards establishing a police state in their "war on terror" suddenly seems to have originated from europe.

And the general media drift certainly isn't "It's Charleton Heston's fault!". Go throw rocks at Michael Moore for that one...

Edit: Added quote to clarify context.
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Originally posted by: Master Sifo-Dyas
Tehee. It's really surprising how the bush administration's trend towards establishing a police state in their "war on terror" suddenly seems to have originated from europe.

And the general media drift certainly isn't "It's Charleton Heston's fault!". Go throw rocks at Michael Moore for that one...


That first line made no sense to me. As far as the Charleton Heston thing goes, I agree with Sifo-Dyas, Europe may be pulling that card now, but it was one of our fat lard Americans that started that crap. I get sick of people who say how wrong he was for telling the families of the Colombine victims that they could have his gun when they pry it from his cold dead fingers. That never happened. It is called skillfull editing.

So one of his guns was a Glock and the other a .22? Seriously? No wonder there are surviviors with three bullets in each of them. I agree with lordjedi about the students not having every used guns. Magazines are not hard to reload, all he would have to do is pratice for an hour or less in his dorm room and he would be able to load the thing like a pro. The serial numbers being filed off is weird though. My first reaction to that was that he bought them illegally, and the source filed them off to protect themselves just in case, but since he bought it ligitimately, I don't know. The only thing I can figure is that he only intended to kill one person and filed the numbers just in case, then he snapped after his initial killing. But then there is the issue of multiple guns, which would not make since. Unless he thought they would be useful while he was on the lamb.

I like how the European articles complained about machine guns being legal in America, when this guy didn't even have one.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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http://www.godhatesamerica.com//

This is just cold and mean. These people are horrible.

WBC to Preach at Funerals of Virginia Tech Dead

WBC will preach at the funerals of the Virginia Tech students killed on campus during a shooting rampage April 16, 2007. You describe this as monumental horror, but you know nothing of horror -- yet. Your bloody tyrant Bush says he is 'horrified' by it all. You know nothing of horror -- yet. Your true horror is coming. "They shall also gird themselves with sackloth, and horror shall cover them; and shame shall be upon all faces, and baldness upon all their heads" (Eze. 7:18).

Why did this happen, you ask? It's simple. Your military chose to shoot at the servants of God today, and all they got for their effort was terror. Then, the LORD your God sent a crazed madman to shoot at your children. Was God asleep while this took place? Was He on vacation? Of course not. He willed this to happen to punish you for assailing His servants.

WBC to preach to the whole world,

via the BBC, and UK Channel 4



Soon the whole world will have heard of Westboro Baptist Church and the unwavering message of Her little flock of slaughter. We have preached for nearly 16 years now on the mean streets of America, seeking doors of utterance to cross international boundaries so we might preach the doom of idolatrous Europe, Asia, and the Middle East. Now, God Almighty, in His due time, has opened just such a door. You will have no excuse once the BBC and Channel 4 release their pieces on the WBC. No matter what perverted light they display us in, you will receive the message. God Hates Fags. God Hates You. The World is Doomed. This very well may be the last warning this doomed mass of mankind will receive before Christ returns in fire and glory to punish you. Whether you will hear it, or whether you will forbear, it is of no consequence to us. You have been warned
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Originally posted by: C3PX
I like how the European articles complained about machine guns being legal in America, when this guy didn't even have one.


And machine guns have been illegal in America since sometime in the 70's. The other semi-automatic rifles that you might see from time to time are just that, semi-automatic.

There's a shooting range in Nevada (near Las Vegas) where you can shoot an Uzi, but to my knowledge, you can't own an Uzi in any state. I may be wrong on that though, living in California tends to make one think that anything "bad" is banned everywhere.
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Originally posted by: sean wookie
http://www.godhatesamerica.com//

This is just cold and mean. These people are horrible.


You're right. That website is just painful to read

I typed this up before you added the quote.
F Scale score - 3.3333333333333335

You are disciplined but tolerant; a true American.

Pissing off Rob since August 2007.
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Sean, this isn't religion, it is the perversion of religion. You can't hold this crap against people who are religious. There are a lot of bigots out there, and a lot of people who think they are blameless in God's eyes and that everytime something bad happens to somebody it is God's judgment. That is bad theology. Those people don't know what they are talking about. They just use religion as a reason to hate.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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I don't think they represent the religion it's that how fuck up some of these people are. I guess I worded that post wrong. And then there is hate against atheist and alike people. I don't really have a problem with religion just when it gets in the way with peoples politics.
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Originally posted by: sean wookie
Also this http://feelgoodbible.blogspot.com/2007/04/gods-will-virginia-tech-shootings.html The reason why I'm not fond of religion.


And that's why I'm not fond of people twisting the Bible to meet their definition of God. I will say this much about it though. Did God know it would happen? Yes, that's why he's omnipotent. Was he going to stop it? No, we have free will.

That website is right about one thing. Perhaps if he had some God in his life, he wouldn't have done this. Maybe he did have God in his life and sought to eliminate what he saw as sinners. Lord knows I've seen enough lying, cheating, and stealing in my lifetime (I'm only 32) that I want to completely stop interacting with people outside of my circle of friends. That's another story though.

Anyway, here's what I came in to post originally. From wnd.com:

"The shooter was "wearing a vest covered in clips was just unloading on their door, going from classroom to classroom ... they said it never seemed like it was going to stop and there was just blood all over," Harrison said.

The shooter had two handguns and several clips of ammunition, according to NBC News. Flinchum confirmed an earlier report that the shooter chained the doors of a classroom to make it almost impossible for the students to escape. "

So it looks like he had plenty of ammo. Also:

"A note found in Cho's dorm room railed against "rich kids," "debauchery" and "deceitful charlatans" on campus."

What he really needed was some time to tune everything out. I personally have had instances where I was sick of humanity and wished the world would end tomorrow. It's mostly with politicians, but I know of other people who are just as sickening or make horrible decisions throughout their life. The point is that this kid pretty much just snapped and took a bunch of people out. To say that God wanted them dead is to twist the Bible. To say that God knew they would die is much more accurate. That, however, does nothing about the situation.
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You are disciplined but tolerant; a true American.

Pissing off Rob since August 2007.
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Originally posted by: sean wookie
I don't think they represent the religion it's that how fuck up some of these people are. I guess I worded that post wrong. And then there is hate against atheist and alike people. I don't really have a problem with religion just when it gets in the way with peoples politics.


Whoa, what? How does that blog have anything to do with politics?
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You are disciplined but tolerant; a true American.

Pissing off Rob since August 2007.
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I do not want to get involved in this--hehe--
*sits on the sidelines with chocolate milk waiting for the next person to post*