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Victory Celebration

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Been a kid that was raised on the 1997 SE's (the horror!), I was quite shocked when I realized that my favorite song from all of Star Wars (bar none), Victory Celebration, was in fact a 1997 addition. I think this is a huge part of the reason why I never understood all of the dislike for Return of the Jedi, because ending the trilogy with that song is one of the most powerful closures I have ever seen. This is compounded by the fact that, however blasphemous it may be on these boards, I don't really like Yub Nub, and I find that it packs about 20% of the emotional punch that Victory Celebration does. But I digress. I have several questions about the song itself, and the ensuing soundtracks. I think it would be easiest just to list them out:

1) The above is correct, right? Victory Celebration was not in the original? (Just want to double check).

2) Victory Celebration has never been released as a stand-alone song, correct? It is only part of the 8 minute, 34 second Victory Celebration/End Title track on both the 1997 and 2004 soundtrack releases, correct? For example seen here: LINK I believe it is about the first 2:24 or so.

3) Now, probably my most burning question, is that version available on the soundtracks the version that is used in the movie itself? Because in the soundtrack version, the first vocals sound way off to me. I fully admit my soundtrack hearing is not the most finely tuned (probably from being raised only ever using TV speakers for movies), but the vocals sound almost… childish? In the sense that it seems like kids are singing it? In the Youtube video I linked to, this would be from about 0:54-1:15.

3a) That portion I just referenced, is it actually used in the 1997 version, and I am blatantly missing it, or is it actually not used in the movie itself?

3b) To cut to the chase, what exactly is used in the 1997 Return of the Jedi? Is it only parts of the Victory Celebration track? Is it a different version? Is it exactly the version available on the soundtrack CDs?  To my, again untrained, ears, it sounds like the movie version has a longer percussion buildup – about 28 seconds in the TB version of the movie, while in the version I linked to, there are only about 17 seconds before the… flute? other woodwind? (sorry I’m not musically inclined) comes in.

3b2) Is there anything used in the movie that is not in the soundtrack version?

4) How easy / feasible would it be to simply replace Yub Nub in the GOUT with Victory Celebration? The more I think about it the harder it seems like it will be :(

In short, I’m just trying to learn about this track, since as I stated above, it is my favorite of the trilogy. Thanks to anyone who can help!

 

May the Force be with you.

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 (Edited)

SS4DarthPayne said:

1) The above is correct, right? Victory Celebration was not in the original? (Just want to double check).

Correct. Yub Nub is the original ending sequence of ROTJ.

-Yub Nub Fan

Edit: Please tell me that you enjoy Lapti Nek!

A picture is worth a thousand words. Post 102 is worth more.

I’m late to the party, but I think this is the best song. Enjoy!

—Teams Jetrell Fo 1, Jetrell Fo 2, and Jetrell Fo 3

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AntcuFaalb said:

SS4DarthPayne said:

1) The above is correct, right? Victory Celebration was not in the original? (Just want to double check).

Correct. Yub Nub is the original ending sequence of ROTJ.

-Yub Nub Fan

Edit: Please tell me that you enjoy Lapti Nek!

I'm ambivalent towards Lapti Nek, to be honest, but it's far and away better than Jedi Rocks, no question. And ^^ that picture made me laugh, although I've never seen South Park so I don't know if it's a specific reference haha

May the Force be with you.

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SS4DarthPayne said:

2) Victory Celebration has never been released as a stand-alone song, correct? It is only part of the 8 minute, 34 second Victory Celebration/End Title track on both the 1997 and 2004 soundtrack releases, correct? For example seen here: LINK I believe it is about the first 2:24 or so.

Listening to my ripped copy of the soundtrack and comparing with the 2011 blu, there appears to be a short pause between the build up at the end of the Celebration and the start of the credits music that does not exist in the film. So, really, all you need to do is open the track up in an audio editor (Audacity, Goldwave, etc) and making it two separate tracks would be easy.

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timdiggerm said:

Listening to my ripped copy of the soundtrack and comparing with the 2011 blu, there appears to be a short pause between the build up at the end of the Celebration and the start of the credits music that does not exist in the film. So, really, all you need to do is open the track up in an audio editor (Audacity, Goldwave, etc) and making it two separate tracks would be easy.

Ok cool thanks for the heads up. Yea, that wouldn't be too hard to do in Audacity at all. I was just kind of curious about its release.

May the Force be with you.

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 (Edited)

Hah I think of that South Park too. This might be the change with the most varied reactions out there. Completely separate from whether you like yub nub or not, some people think this song is beautiful and moving, others just think it's the worst. Supposedly Lucas gave Williams a temp version of the new ending with this music from a TV miniseries and said "sort of do this."

500 Nations (Powerful Native American music and art) - YouTube

 

The actual bootleg of the rough '97 version with that music used to be on youtube but it looks like Fox pulled it.

 

 

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In terms of #3 about the vocals, I can tell you it's certainly much more pronounced on the soundtrack CDs than it was on the stereo mix used on my old pan-and-scan tapes. I practically never noticed the kids' voices until I heard that version, and now I can't unhear them :/

A Goon in a Gaggle of 'em

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@Baronlando, I know that rough cut you're talking about. I want to say that OCP had it as a Deleted Magic extra, or in the DVD-ROM folder. I didn't realize it was that exact song though, which by the way, is very close to the Star Wars version. I didn't quite realize how close. Also, I didn't realize that this change had such wide reactions. Was Yub Nub that well loved? ;) And as I said in the first post, I absolutely love this song. It's my go-to de-stresser, and has helped me through various difficult parts of my life. 

@bkev, so you're saying that the children's vocals ARE in the 1997 version of the movie? I just listened again (to the TB version), and I really cannot hear it, but again, I don't trust my ears. 

May the Force be with you.

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 (Edited)

Yeah. They're there, but far - far - less pronounced. I think they're similarly quiet on the 2004 SE sound mix as well but I don't have it on hand so I can't check.

Also, just a comment on this song versus Yub Nub. I think I prefer the piece in of itself, but the "teddy bear parade" ending was much more fun than seeing the entire galaxy celebrate. Mainly because I somehow doubt the death of the Emperor is the complete end of the Empire, and it makes more sense to have a subdued celebration among comrades. Pretty sure there was more work to do after that for the Rebels.

A Goon in a Gaggle of 'em

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I can understand why people like the '97 ending because it has "Victory Celebration", but no Hayden (and no Jar Jar yelling Wesa Free! as the last line of the saga). 

Victory Celebration is less egregious to me because they brought John Williams back for it. 

Jedi Rocks John williams had nothing to do with (they were probably scared to show him the new CGI), but Lapti Nek was written by John Williams and Joseph, his son.  So they cut out a song John Williams was involved with and replaced it with one that he didn't write.  that alone is a travesty, not even taking the horrendous CGI into account.

Jedi Rocks is by far the worst transgression of ANY of the special editions imo.

I wish that I could just wish my feelings away...but I can't.  Wishful wishing can only lead to wishes wished for in futile wishfulness, which is not what I wish to wish for. 

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 (Edited)

Yub Nub suited the original trilogy as an ender. It feels out of place with the prequels. The Star Wars trilogy was essentially a feel-good story about overcoming impossible odds, defeating injustice and the power of friendship. Yub Nub is a bit silly, but considering you are watching a giant party where teddy bears are dancing with characters you have grown to love over the years as they celebrate their triumph, it somehow suited it. It fit with the plot and tone of ROTJ, and the trilogy itself.

Yub Nub never had much widespread hate against it, and had little to do with the reputation of Jedi. In fact, Victory Celebration got a lot of criticism in 1997, because instead of the feel-good ending song you had some melancholy Enya type thing that is even more out of place musically. It fits the additions of the SE and the expanded story of the prequels, but since a lot of people hate those things in the first place they care little for the accompanying track that replaced the original.

The Secret History of Star Wars -- now available on Amazon.com!

"When George went back and put new creatures into the original Star Wars, I find that disturbing. It’s a revision of history. That bothers me."

--James Cameron, Entertainment Weekly, April 2010

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It's funny, I thought the end music from phantom menace made a better bookend with Yub Nub than with the 97 music, but they never really cracked that ending either way. Which I guess is okay now that's it not even The End anymore.

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Baronlando said:

It's funny, I thought the end music from phantom menace made a better bookend

Just remember that's its the Emperor's theme in a different key.

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Haha, do you think maybe they will take it out now that there is a sequel trilogy?

Actually, I hope Disney makes a Special Edition update, because it will probably add something to the film. Only someone like George Lucas could think making Darth Vader go "NOOoo" was a good idea. Actually, I think some of these additions are actually just his way of fucking with critics. "Oh, you laughed in the theater when Darth Vader said 'Nooo' in Episode III? Well, fuck you, I thought it was good, in fact I'm going to put it in Return of the Jedi TOO! How do you like them apples?" Because I mean if he really cared about the films...why would he sell them to Disney?

He always used the analogy of the films being his children so he wanted to make sure they were properly protected...so, did he just sell his kids for a huge paycheck?

I'm off topic now, but man that guy is hard to figure out sometimes.

The Secret History of Star Wars -- now available on Amazon.com!

"When George went back and put new creatures into the original Star Wars, I find that disturbing. It’s a revision of history. That bothers me."

--James Cameron, Entertainment Weekly, April 2010

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I don't like Yub Nub. But Victory Celebration just feels pasted over and out of place... which it is.

So er.... crap?

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zombie84 said:

Yub Nub suited the original trilogy as an ender. It feels out of place with the prequels. The Star Wars trilogy was essentially a feel-good story about overcoming impossible odds, defeating injustice and the power of friendship. Yub Nub is a bit silly, but considering you are watching a giant party where teddy bears are dancing with characters you have grown to love over the years as they celebrate their triumph, it somehow suited it. It fit with the plot and tone of ROTJ, and the trilogy itself.

Yub Nub never had much widespread hate against it, and had little to do with the reputation of Jedi. In fact, Victory Celebration got a lot of criticism in 1997, because instead of the feel-good ending song you had some melancholy Enya type thing that is even more out of place musically. It fits the additions of the SE and the expanded story of the prequels, but since a lot of people hate those things in the first place they care little for the accompanying track that replaced the original.

Absolutely. I think one would have to imagine knowing and loving that final triumphant moment with the original music to appreciate it. If that's what you expected and subsequently enjoyed, the change was jarring. Yub Nub felt smaller and more local to the Ewoks, but that was okay. That was where the story ended and that's where the heroes rejoiced. I see the merit of the flute music but it does feel more detached from the moment.

The blue elephant in the room.

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zombie84 said:

Actually, I think some of these additions are actually just his way of fucking with critics. "Oh, you laughed in the theater when Darth Vader said 'Nooo' in Episode III? Well, fuck you, I thought it was good, in fact I'm going to put it in Return of the Jedi TOO! How do you like them apples?"

I think in some ways we want to think that the stupid alterations are his way of fucking with critics and fans, I actually wish it was/is his reason sometimes, it makes things easier, but I strongly suspect it's much worse than that; that he actually sincerely believes that some of these stupid and nonsensical alterations improves the films. The reason being some of the stupid alterations done already in '97, why fucking with critics and fans back then, wasn't it supposed to be a nice 20th anniversary celebration? No, many of those changes and those in '04 are completely in line with every other stupid change done since, including the stupid things seen in the Prequels. It's the filmmaking 101 by Lucas these days. Sad but I think it's the truth.

zombie84 said:

Because I mean if he really cared about the films...why would he sell them to Disney?

He always used the analogy of the films being his children so he wanted to make sure they were properly protected...so, did he just sell his kids for a huge paycheck?

I'm off topic now, but man that guy is hard to figure out sometimes.

Yeah, it has been more than a month since the announcement but it still hasn't sunk in for me. It's bizarre...

We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions. 

Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com

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 (Edited)

Maybe. It's still ambiguous enough that I don't know if he is being sarcastic or sincere...I guess that is part of what makes it interesting to analayze him and his work. I mean, wearing the "Han Shot First" shirt...is he making a statement, mocking us, or is he just entirely clueless? I don't even know anymore lol. I think that's part of the problem: maybe Lucas himself doesn't know what the hell he is even saying.

The Secret History of Star Wars -- now available on Amazon.com!

"When George went back and put new creatures into the original Star Wars, I find that disturbing. It’s a revision of history. That bothers me."

--James Cameron, Entertainment Weekly, April 2010

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I like the  Victory Celebration song better than the Yub Nub song.  As songs.  As the final musical theme of the trilogy?  No like either.

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Pro or con, it just doesn't sound like something from 1983 to my old ears.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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 (Edited)

I always thought a better end maybe would've been the scene where Luke set fire to Vader, it's a beautiful scene. But then it would've been too abrupt instead.

Zombie, do you happen to know if those "Han Shot First" shirts actually were produced by Lucasfilm around the time they released the GOUT? or was it just some random fan made shirts or what? But yes I agree with you, he is a fascinating enigma.

We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions. 

Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com

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The shirt George wore was actually sold on the official site. You got to admire Lucasfilm's moxie for taking a fan coined phrase, slapping it on a t-shirt and selling it.

The cartoon depiction of Han on the shirt is probably the most hideous caricature of Harrison Ford outside the Holiday Special cartoon. ;)

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?