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Unusual Sequel Trilogy Radical Redux Ideas Thread — Page 99

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NeverarGreat said:

I think the biggest issue with taking out The Republic is that in TFA the Hosnian System is treated as The Entire Republic And Their Fleet. When it’s destroyed the audience is just left saying ‘Okay, I guess the First Order rules the galaxy now because the entire New Republic was just that one system’, even though in any galaxy that doesn’t really make sense.

Take Earth for example. We don’t have a one world government, but imagine if the United Nations was a bit more powerful, with a rotating seat of government which is currently in Switzerland. If a country like North Korea took out the UN headquarters and even all of Switzerland, this would be a devastating attack and throw the world into chaos, but I also wouldn’t expect the nations of the world to suddenly give in to North Korea.

This is essentially what has happened in TFA in the lore. The Hosnian system was just one of many potential seats of New Republic power, and the one currently guarded by their largest standing fleet. With this destroyed the New Republic is in chaos, but is not yet conquered. TLJ is actually as much to blame as TFA in regards to unexplained worldbuilding since it establishes that the First Order now de-facto reigns over the galaxy and they will take over all systems within weeks.

It would be like North Korea suddenly unleashing a hidden fleet of aircraft carriers across the Pacific to try and subdue the nations of the world.

Then TROS comes in with the Sith fleet idea and strains this analogy further.

Russia could have been building a fleet of 10,000 Soviet submarines in secret, each with a nuclear payload, and if North Korea allies with them after the loss of their aircraft carriers they can still rule the world.

But none of this really matters because each nation still has their own military, and once the world got its act together they would combine forces to take out this Russian/North Korean alliance which is only really a threat due to these outdated nuclear submarines that need external radar to help them navigate out of Russia’s only warm water port.

Of course, if you give the ST this sort of context it seems rather like the New Republic was always going to come back and win, which is why the biggest problem for me is not what happens but how it is portrayed. If in TFA they described the Hosnian attack as decapitating the New Republic government instead of destroying the New Republic itself, it would go a long way. In TLJ if they’d had just changed the exposition at the end from ‘allies in the outer rim’ to ‘central worlds of the New Repubic’, it would have shown how these otherwise powerful worlds were frightened into inaction by the First Order. Finally, if TROS would have dropped the planet-destroying capabilities of the ships while keeping the civilian fleet arriving it would have actually made sense.

Don’t you do that in Starlight?

Coming Soon
Fall of the Republic v 3

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All that I’ve been able to do with Starlight is give some more agency to the New Republic, not actually explain their relationship to the galaxy or distinguishing between the Hosnian system as the seat of government and the New Republic systems. Well, Leia has dialogue saying that the Senate is being targeted instead of the New Republic, but I don’t consider that enough. There would need to be dialogue from somewhere else to describe it fully.

You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)

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How hard would it be to add Rose to the opening heist in TRoS? You know, when Poe and Finn take the Falcon to that iceberg? Surely, you could composite her into a few shots, add a few reactions and poof: she’s there.

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^ Just make sure that she doesn’t share any screentime with Klaud and imply through an added line that she’s a changeling.

I’ve had a bit of a brainstorm about TROS, so big idea incoming:

As I’ve said elsewhere, the only way to save TROS would be to undo Palpatine’s return, the massive Sith Fleet, and Rey Palpatine. I’ve also given some idea as to how that could work by turning Palpatine into an illusion by Sith cultists to lure Rey into their clutches, including the idea that Rey is a Palpatine.

To refine the idea further, I think the entire theme of the film should be deception. The Sith cultists have deceived the First Order into believing that Palpatine has returned and that he has a massive fleet at his command. They have done this to gain power over Kylo Ren and to control the First Order through him. They also seek to destroy the Resistance by luring them to a briar patch of a planet from which there is no escape, then unleashing a force weapon on their fleet to crash their ships into Exegol. Almost the entire fleet is illusory, as well as the rumored planet-destroying weapons on their ships. Really the cultists only have a few old style Star Destroyers, with the rest being holographic images. This would require quite a bit of work in the final act, but it’s not impossible.

The real trick would be to construct a scene explaining how the illusion works. This should be partway through the film, and ideally between acts 2 and 3 where the planet is destroyed in the theatrical version. Instead of that scene, we get a scene where the Knights of Ren are revealed to be Sith Cultists who are in on the scheme and have been playing Kylo Ren and the First Order all along. Perhaps the Knights are appearing via hologram to a scarred and twisted cultist who is describing the plan to them from Exegol. He shows how the holographic emitter which is broadcasting the illusion of the fleet is disguised as a beacon ostensibly leading the Sith fleet off Exegol. He explains that the Resistance will target the beacon/holographic emitter, but he has arranged it so that Pryde will divert their attention with a signal of his own. The cultist then explains that once Rey and the Resistance have arrived, the plan will be set in motion.

He says that the Sith Cultists have given almost all of their power in the Force to create a being as strong as Snoke, and after Snoke’s death the power that he has been able to draw from the cultists is only enough to fuel an illusion. He believes that his web of lies about Rey’s parentage shall draw her to him, then claims that with Rey before him he will take her power to destroy the Resistance, and their deaths shall be at her hands. A knight asks about Kylo Ren, saying that he has feelings for the girl. The cultist tells the Knights that if Kylo interferes, to kill him. He pulls a hood over his head and his visage changes into that of Palpatine.

This would require someone filming a scene of themselves as this cultist, but as it’s practically a monologue it would be fairly straightforward. There would only need to be some short questions from the Knights, perhaps subtitled or voiced by others since the knights don’t speak in the film. Since they have masks, there would be no issues with lipsync and since they appear via hologram the images of the Knights wouldn’t need to be too detailed.

During the final confrontation of Rey and this false Palpatine, there could be a moment when she calls upon the Jedi and they allow her to see through the illusion and show her the true face of her enemy, who is astonished at her powers of knowledge and defense. Luke’s statement about facing fear is recontextualized into being about a more purely Jedi test than an existential threat.

Since the fleet beacon/emitter is not destroyed until the very end of the battle, the illusory ships wouldn’t need to disappear. The fleets could still do battle with each other just as they do, but after the massive Republic fleet arrives there could be chatter that many of the destroyers are not actually there, and in fact whole parts of the illusion are beginning to flicker and turn into blue light. The core of the battle stays the same, just with a lot less meaningless ships on the periphery.

A benefit of this idea is that it could lean into Rey Palpatine since it is revealed to be a lie later anyway.

So that’s the idea. What do you think?

You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)

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It seems you’ve laid out a way that it could be filmed, and giving the “Sith cult” a face seems like a plus. But you would have to find a solid actor to play the role of essentially evil Oz. It does seem it would be exposition heavy. Might be worth scripting out and see if it how it sounds on paper.

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Yes, it’s almost entirely dependent on finding the right actor. I’m debating about making them a known but previously unseen character from Star Wars lore, like Plagueis. This would give him an immediate alien appearance which would visually confirm the lie of Rey being his offspring as well as continuing the ST trend of including some aliens in with the otherwise human villains.

JEDIT: Since Palpatine in this film is hanging from a gantry and has withered useless hands, it would make sense for the alien mastermind to be the reanimated corpse of Snoke. He’s a Force-sensitive alien, after all, so who knows if he would have actually died to bisection anyway. Maul apparently didn’t. Since he also lost his hands in the bisection, his gaining his hands back would be a real plot point, as well as his hatred for Rey and Ben. If his face is in shadow for most of the scene, emerging only at the end to morph into that of Palpatine, it would be fairly simple to use doctored footage of Snoke from TLJ and merely have an actor who could do a passable Snoke impression.

On to the scripting. We begin with Han and Ben’s reunion:

Ben: “I know what I have to do, but I don’t know if I have the strength to do it.”
Han: “You do.”
Ben: “Dad.”
Han: “I know.”

Establishing shot of Sith Temple on Exegol, cutting to a conference table within the Evil Lab. A hooded figure with a shadowy, alien visage sits at the table, surrounded by the holographic images of the Knights of Ren.

Knight: “We’ve lost contact with Leader Ren. We think he’s gone rogue.”
Figure: (With a voice which is labored, twisted, alien) “This is the princess’s doing. But it is to our advantage; the First Order is mine once more. And when the girl arrives, we shall use her power to destroy the Resistance.”
Knight: “But if they take out the holographic emitter, most of our fleet will vanish into thin air.”
(The figure generates a schematic on the conference table indicating the emitter which is generating the images of thousands of Star Destroyers among a scattered few real ones)
Figure: “General Pryde’s destroyer is capable of sustaining the illusion. Rest assured, the Resistance will believe that it faces ten thousand devastating warships. Without hope, and with the return of their ‘Emperor’, the galaxy will fall to the Final Order.”
Knights: “Long live the Final Order and the Sith Eternal.”
Knight: “And what of the girl? If she doesn’t take the bait…”
Figure: “She will. I am her grandfather, after all.” (He emerges into the light. An inhuman, grinning face, the face of Snoke reanimated.)
Knights: (sinister amusement)
Figure: “Return home, my brethren. All will go as planned. And if the last of the hated Skywalkers dares to interfere with that plan…(his voice changes)…do what must be done. Do not hesitate, show no mercy.”

The face of Snoke morphs into that of Palpatine beneath the hood.

Esablishing shot of a First Order destroyer.

Palpatine: “The Princess of Alderaan has disrupted my plan. But her foolish act will be in vain. Come to me on Exegol, General Pryde.”
Pryde: “As I served you in the old wars, I serve you now.”
Palpatine: “Send a ship to a world they know. Let it burn. The Final Order begins. She will come. Her friends will follow.”
Pryde: “Yes my lord.”

A Sith Eternal destroyer fires weapons reminiscent of those used on D’qar at Kijimi. The city centers are ravaged, but the planet is not destroyed.

“Kijimi? How?”
“A blast from a Star Destroyer. A ship from the new Sith fleet. Out of the unknowns.”
“The Emperor sent a ship from Exegol.”
“This is how he finishes it.”
“Listen, it’s on every frequency.”
“The Resistance is dead. The Sith flame will burn. All worlds, surrender or die. The Final Order begins.”

You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)

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I’m not quite sure how I feel about the idea, accounting for the likelihood of upcoming media potentially laying more retroactive groundwork for Palpatine’s return, but as the execution goes I think this is great, and resource-efficient.

You might want to complete the idea by having Palpatine’s false image morphing back into Snoke at the moment of his death too.

The Clone Wars: Refocused

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I second that motion, maybe having a flash of Snoke’s face for a frame of footage when Kylo first meets “Palpatine,” to better set up the twist.

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Yes, those would be good additions I think.

On another note, I was watching the final scene of the film and wondered if anyone had tried removing the old woman and Rey’s dialogue to make it an entirely dialogue-free scene in line with other Star Wars endings. Rey would just stand up after burying the lightsabers, drawn to perhaps a sound effect or whisper, and see the ghosts in the distance.

You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)

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I’m still a big fan of modifying her interaction with that woman at the end using TFA dialogue:
“Who are you?”
“None of your business, that’s who!”
–cut to credits–

The Clone Wars: Refocused

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Watching some video essays about the fundamental failure in filmmaking that is TROS, I wanted to ask: Have any fan edits made any leeway in having Rey stay permanently dead and having Ben survive so he can be a Cain-like figure who has to atone for his many sins he’s committed during his life? Maybe even having him be the one to travel to Tatooine to bury both Luke and Leia’s lightsaber instead of Rey?

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EddieDean said:

I’m still a big fan of modifying her interaction with that woman at the end using TFA dialogue:
“Who are you?”
“None of your business, that’s who!”
–cut to credits–

Ray Palpatine. Then she shoots her with lightning.

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Now that a certain show has aired it’s finale, I’ve got an itch to see Qui-Gon and Leia (to balance things out) added to the Jhon ghost version of the finale.

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Forgive me if this has been suggested or tried before but in The Last Jedi when the resistance call for help instead of no response maybe the transmission from Palpatine could be heard. His puppet is lost he might feel strong enough to emerge after the recent destruction of the Republic Capital and Fleet. It would be the ultimate kick in the teeth for the resistance. And then in walks Luke. That way the Palpatine thing isnt just chucked in for the last part.

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The other day, I was thinking about TROS and it’s “Palpatine Problem” and I had some scattershot ideas that are more likely to be fan fiction rather than fan edit. But I figured I’d go ahead and put them out in the universe in case it sparks an idea for one of you to maybe try to implement in some sort of way.

  1. One of my biggest problems with TROS is how it pulls a “Palpatine All Along!” sort of plot contrivance much like the Prequel Trilogy. It’s much more worse in the ST since he’s just kind of chilling on Exegol this entire time until he arbitrarily decides that he’s not anymore and does his Fortnite message. So, I was thinking… Instead of Palpatine getting resurrected at some point shortly after the Battle of Endor, what if it happens in the midst of the Sequel Trilogy? I’m thinking maybe during Rey’s first lesson in TLJ when she starts bugging out about the Dark Side Cave, we could get glimpses of Palpatine getting successfully resurrected. I think using footage from the end of the Star Wars: Eclipse trailer of that mysterious figure rising out of the black goo could be used for this sort of thing. That way, it doesn’t look like Palpatine and the Sith Eternal were just kind of sitting with their thumbs up their robes the entire time.

  2. Speaking of the Sith Eternal, I wonder if there’s a way to establish that Snoke is an autonomous member of it who’s paving the way for when Palpatine gets resurrected rather than just being his proxy meat puppet. I feel like this idea can go hand in hand really well with my first idea (although I have no idea how this one could be done TBH).

  3. Finally, going back to the canon “Palpatine was resurrected shortly after Endor and was just chilling” line of thinking, what if instead of Rey’s Father being a weird Not-Clone of Palpatine, he was a Sith Eternal scientist who defected right before they successfully resurrected him? Obviously, I feel like this idea would work solely for a Rey Nobody version (and specifically Hal’s version of it). How I see it, Rey’s Dad defects from the Eternal and escapes to Jakku. He becomes a nobody and a drunkard (I’d become alcoholic too if I helped bring back to life the most evil man in the galaxy). While in hiding, he meets Rey’s Mother and they conceive Rey. Palpatine finds out where they are and sends Ochi to go kill them. The parents sell Rey off and ditch Jakku to spare her a grisly fate. Ochi catches up to them and kills them. And coincidentally enough, Rey turns out to be the one to ultimately destroy Palpatine in the end with the help of Ben Solo. Again, much like my second idea, I have no idea how this could be established but it could be a really interesting sort of idea.

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Sasquatch, thought I’d share some ideas about what you shared.

  1. I like the idea of using that shot from the Star Wars: Eclipse teaser to imply that Palpatine is being resurrected.

I think one idea I felt made since was that Palpatine was waiting to reveal himself until after Luke Skywalker, his greatest threat, was dead. I think the way poppa’s edit ends, where Kylo Ren hears a voice saying, “Find me.” at the end of the film helps with that idea some. But there’s never really a line that ever makes that clear, if that was the intention.

At the very least, I could see a brief glimpse of that shot thrown included in a vision in one of the ST films.

This might be a little out there, but for some reason this idea popped into my head. What if destroying the Hosnian system served two purposes? Yes, it was to paralyze the Republic, but what if it also served as huge sacrifice to resurrect Palpatine from the dead?

I could picture a new sequence in TFA, where we use that shot of the Hosnian destruction can be seen from the sky, but we see it above a few different planets. Coruscant, Naboo, etc. Finally, we cut to Exegol. We see the Hosnian cataclysm through the opening at the top of the Sith temple. We see hooded figures chanting. We hear cries of a billion voices echo through the Force. Then we see a figure rise from the black liquid (the shot could be color corrected to better match Exegol). A line could be potentially added of one of the cultists saying something to clarify that a sacrifice or ritual is being performed, without revealing who we are seeing. Maybe we could even have a close up of Snoke to imply he is there to witness it. Anyway, you would have to do it in a way that wouldn’t disrupt the flow of the film, and didn’t feel too disconnected. So maybe Snoke being there could help it feel connected to the rest of the film more.

  1. To make Snoke more clearly separate from Palpatine, but serving him, you could change Palpatine’s line in TROS from “I made Snoke” to “I trained Snoke”.
    Then the next line could just be “I have been every voice [Vader voice] inside your head.”

I do like the idea that maybe Palpatine’s spirit could have potentially been pulling strings, but wasn’t physically resurrected until the Sequel Trilogy. Regardless, the “I trained Snoke” line could help imply that Snoke was serving Palpatine, and maybe he trained Snoke either as a disembodied spirit, or even before Vader killed him.

One idea I’ve had for a long time is to have Kylo’s first TROS scene be him touching Vader’s mask and seeing a vision that leads him to the Wayfinder. Perhaps in this vision, Kylo could get a glimpse of Snoke on Mustafar or Exegol, to help connect him even more with the Sith Eternal.

  1. I don’t think any explanation is necessary for who Rey’s parents were in TROS.
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Thanks for the response, Rogue!

I absolutely LOVE that sacrifice idea, although I’m not sure how it could fit in with the flow of that film.

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To make Snoke more clearly separate from Palpatine, but serving him, you could change Palpatine’s line in TROS from “I made Snoke” to “I trained Snoke”.
Then the next line could just be “I have been every voice [Vader voice] inside your head.”

I’ve actually already done that. I left Snoke’s voice in since that moment lands much better with three voices and I don’t see any plot holes that would create. Just because Snoke and Palpy are working together doesn’t mean Palpy can’t impersonate Snoke on occasion to manipulate Kylo.

I love the idea of the destruction of Hosnian being a mass sacrifice to resurrect Palpatine. It’s so sinister and dramatic! Reminds me of when I wrote backstory to his resurrection where he drained the life force of Ewoks and Gungans.

A line could be potentially added of one of the cultists saying something to clarify that a sacrifice or ritual is being performed, without revealing who we are seeing.

Maybe it’d be good if Snoke was the one to say it. That plus the line about training him would really clarify the relationship between the two (master and apprentice).

I think Sasquatch’s idea about Rey’s father being a Sith scientist who ran away is great, but I still prefer Rey nobody, so I’m gonna have to agree with RogueLeader here.

I think something that would really help in regards to setting up Palpatine is having Vader’s helmet actually speak to Kylo, which would get paid off by the “every voice” line. I’m sure it’s been done several times over by now, just gotta dig up the best version.

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Anakin Starkiller said:

I think Sasquatch’s idea about Rey’s father being a Sith scientist who ran away is great, but I still prefer Rey nobody, so I’m gonna have to agree with RogueLeader here.

I’m kind of surprised both you and Rogue seem to think the scientist idea clashes with Rey Nobody. In the grand scheme of things, some clone scientist and his family would be nobody compared to legends such as the Skywalkers and the Palpatines.