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Unusual Sequel Trilogy Radical Redux Ideas Thread — Page 61

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StarkillerAG said:

JakeRyan17 said:

StarkillerAG said:

JakeRyan17 said:

I guess with it only being Kylo, it didn’t bother me that no one else talks about Palpatine during the bulk of TLJ. To me, the First Order doesn’t know until the broadcast. There aren’t really any other lines of dialogue except trying to escape and then Rey & Leia on the Falcon at the very end. Then TROS starts with finding the message, and everyone on Ajan Kloss asking if the Emperor could really be back.

If you can think of lines from TROS that could be added to the films earlier, I have clean audio for it to work with. It just doesn’t feel necessary to me.

I guess you could contrive a justification, but it still feels weird to me. I still think that Hal’s approach, coupled with adding Palpatine’s introduction to the end of TLJ, is the option that makes the most narrative sense.

I guess leaving it as late and as subtle doesn’t fix the problem for me. In narrative story structure, the threat and conflict is introduced at the end of the first act. Leaving any of that primary conflict and threat out of The Force Awakens keeps the abrupt about-face change up in the third film, or even at the end of the second.

That would be the ideal, yes, but I don’t think it’s achievable through editing alone. The writers for the trilogy should have either gone full-on with the “They Saved Palpatine’s Brain” plot, or just stuck with Kylo and the First Order. It’s a problem with the writing, that editing can’t fix. I’m just searching for a way to slightly rectify the problem, while still feeling as natural as possible.

I realise that, I’m explaining why this felt more natural to me.

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JakeRyan17 said:

StarkillerAG said:

JakeRyan17 said:

StarkillerAG said:

JakeRyan17 said:

I guess with it only being Kylo, it didn’t bother me that no one else talks about Palpatine during the bulk of TLJ. To me, the First Order doesn’t know until the broadcast. There aren’t really any other lines of dialogue except trying to escape and then Rey & Leia on the Falcon at the very end. Then TROS starts with finding the message, and everyone on Ajan Kloss asking if the Emperor could really be back.

If you can think of lines from TROS that could be added to the films earlier, I have clean audio for it to work with. It just doesn’t feel necessary to me.

I guess you could contrive a justification, but it still feels weird to me. I still think that Hal’s approach, coupled with adding Palpatine’s introduction to the end of TLJ, is the option that makes the most narrative sense.

I guess leaving it as late and as subtle doesn’t fix the problem for me. In narrative story structure, the threat and conflict is introduced at the end of the first act. Leaving any of that primary conflict and threat out of The Force Awakens keeps the abrupt about-face change up in the third film, or even at the end of the second.

That would be the ideal, yes, but I don’t think it’s achievable through editing alone. The writers for the trilogy should have either gone full-on with the “They Saved Palpatine’s Brain” plot, or just stuck with Kylo and the First Order. It’s a problem with the writing, that editing can’t fix. I’m just searching for a way to slightly rectify the problem, while still feeling as natural as possible.

I realise that, I’m explaining why this felt more natural to me.

I know, and I’m explaining why I feel it isn’t achievable by trying to contrive it in editing. It just doesn’t feel seamless in my opinion.

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StarkillerAG said:

JakeRyan17 said:

StarkillerAG said:

JakeRyan17 said:

StarkillerAG said:

JakeRyan17 said:

I guess with it only being Kylo, it didn’t bother me that no one else talks about Palpatine during the bulk of TLJ. To me, the First Order doesn’t know until the broadcast. There aren’t really any other lines of dialogue except trying to escape and then Rey & Leia on the Falcon at the very end. Then TROS starts with finding the message, and everyone on Ajan Kloss asking if the Emperor could really be back.

If you can think of lines from TROS that could be added to the films earlier, I have clean audio for it to work with. It just doesn’t feel necessary to me.

I guess you could contrive a justification, but it still feels weird to me. I still think that Hal’s approach, coupled with adding Palpatine’s introduction to the end of TLJ, is the option that makes the most narrative sense.

I guess leaving it as late and as subtle doesn’t fix the problem for me. In narrative story structure, the threat and conflict is introduced at the end of the first act. Leaving any of that primary conflict and threat out of The Force Awakens keeps the abrupt about-face change up in the third film, or even at the end of the second.

That would be the ideal, yes, but I don’t think it’s achievable through editing alone. The writers for the trilogy should have either gone full-on with the “They Saved Palpatine’s Brain” plot, or just stuck with Kylo and the First Order. It’s a problem with the writing, that editing can’t fix. I’m just searching for a way to slightly rectify the problem, while still feeling as natural as possible.

I realise that, I’m explaining why this felt more natural to me.

I know, and I’m explaining why I feel it isn’t achievable by trying to contrive it in editing. It just doesn’t feel seamless in my opinion.

Watching the full thing in context, I feel like it’s closer.

I’m ignoring information from outside of the films, obviously, such as how much time passes between films, etc. So, it’s not a year of no one mentioning Palpatine, the next movie starts with the heroes trying to confirm the message and the First Order being restructured.

Hux’s annoyance and being specifically anti-Kylo makes more sense with Kylo playing both (evil) sides since he didn’t know about Palpatine and viewed the First Order soldiers as his in The Last Jedi. To me it smoothed over a lot of those rough edges.

My cuts aren’t as drastically restructured though, and I haven’t seen Hal’s cuts to see how they compare.

Again, if you had ideas how to make them less contrived, which kinda feels like an aggressive word to keep flinging at me in a “radical” redux thread, I’m all ears.

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JakeRyan17 said:

StarkillerAG said:

JakeRyan17 said:

StarkillerAG said:

JakeRyan17 said:

StarkillerAG said:

JakeRyan17 said:

I guess with it only being Kylo, it didn’t bother me that no one else talks about Palpatine during the bulk of TLJ. To me, the First Order doesn’t know until the broadcast. There aren’t really any other lines of dialogue except trying to escape and then Rey & Leia on the Falcon at the very end. Then TROS starts with finding the message, and everyone on Ajan Kloss asking if the Emperor could really be back.

If you can think of lines from TROS that could be added to the films earlier, I have clean audio for it to work with. It just doesn’t feel necessary to me.

I guess you could contrive a justification, but it still feels weird to me. I still think that Hal’s approach, coupled with adding Palpatine’s introduction to the end of TLJ, is the option that makes the most narrative sense.

I guess leaving it as late and as subtle doesn’t fix the problem for me. In narrative story structure, the threat and conflict is introduced at the end of the first act. Leaving any of that primary conflict and threat out of The Force Awakens keeps the abrupt about-face change up in the third film, or even at the end of the second.

That would be the ideal, yes, but I don’t think it’s achievable through editing alone. The writers for the trilogy should have either gone full-on with the “They Saved Palpatine’s Brain” plot, or just stuck with Kylo and the First Order. It’s a problem with the writing, that editing can’t fix. I’m just searching for a way to slightly rectify the problem, while still feeling as natural as possible.

I realise that, I’m explaining why this felt more natural to me.

I know, and I’m explaining why I feel it isn’t achievable by trying to contrive it in editing. It just doesn’t feel seamless in my opinion.

Watching the full thing in context, I feel like it’s closer.

I’m ignoring information from outside of the films, obviously, such as how much time passes between films, etc. So, it’s not a year of no one mentioning Palpatine, the next movie starts with the heroes trying to confirm the message and the First Order being restructured.

Hux’s annoyance and being specifically anti-Kylo makes more sense with Kylo playing both (evil) sides since he didn’t know about Palpatine and viewed the First Order soldiers as his in The Last Jedi. To me it smoothed over a lot of those rough edges.

My cuts aren’t as drastically restructured though, and I haven’t seen Hal’s cuts to see how they compare.

Again, if you had ideas how to make them less contrived, which kinda feels like an aggressive word to keep flinging at me in a “radical” redux thread, I’m all ears.

Just watch Hal’s edits to see what I mean. They’ve added quite a few subtle hints at the true forces behind the First Order, without altering the plot too much. If you want more obvious teasing of Palpatine’s return, watch Poppasketti’s TLJ edit as well. He added Palpatine teases to the entire movie, culminating in Palpatine telling Kylo to find him. Those edits tease Palpatine’s return pretty much perfectly in my opinion, and you should really check them out.

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StarkillerAG said:

JakeRyan17 said:

StarkillerAG said:

JakeRyan17 said:

StarkillerAG said:

JakeRyan17 said:

StarkillerAG said:

JakeRyan17 said:

I guess with it only being Kylo, it didn’t bother me that no one else talks about Palpatine during the bulk of TLJ. To me, the First Order doesn’t know until the broadcast. There aren’t really any other lines of dialogue except trying to escape and then Rey & Leia on the Falcon at the very end. Then TROS starts with finding the message, and everyone on Ajan Kloss asking if the Emperor could really be back.

If you can think of lines from TROS that could be added to the films earlier, I have clean audio for it to work with. It just doesn’t feel necessary to me.

I guess you could contrive a justification, but it still feels weird to me. I still think that Hal’s approach, coupled with adding Palpatine’s introduction to the end of TLJ, is the option that makes the most narrative sense.

I guess leaving it as late and as subtle doesn’t fix the problem for me. In narrative story structure, the threat and conflict is introduced at the end of the first act. Leaving any of that primary conflict and threat out of The Force Awakens keeps the abrupt about-face change up in the third film, or even at the end of the second.

That would be the ideal, yes, but I don’t think it’s achievable through editing alone. The writers for the trilogy should have either gone full-on with the “They Saved Palpatine’s Brain” plot, or just stuck with Kylo and the First Order. It’s a problem with the writing, that editing can’t fix. I’m just searching for a way to slightly rectify the problem, while still feeling as natural as possible.

I realise that, I’m explaining why this felt more natural to me.

I know, and I’m explaining why I feel it isn’t achievable by trying to contrive it in editing. It just doesn’t feel seamless in my opinion.

Watching the full thing in context, I feel like it’s closer.

I’m ignoring information from outside of the films, obviously, such as how much time passes between films, etc. So, it’s not a year of no one mentioning Palpatine, the next movie starts with the heroes trying to confirm the message and the First Order being restructured.

Hux’s annoyance and being specifically anti-Kylo makes more sense with Kylo playing both (evil) sides since he didn’t know about Palpatine and viewed the First Order soldiers as his in The Last Jedi. To me it smoothed over a lot of those rough edges.

My cuts aren’t as drastically restructured though, and I haven’t seen Hal’s cuts to see how they compare.

Again, if you had ideas how to make them less contrived, which kinda feels like an aggressive word to keep flinging at me in a “radical” redux thread, I’m all ears.

Just watch Hal’s edits to see what I mean. They’ve added quite a few subtle hints at the true forces behind the First Order, without altering the plot too much. If you want more obvious teasing of Palpatine’s return, watch Poppasketti’s TLJ edit as well. He added Palpatine teases to the entire movie, culminating in Palpatine telling Kylo to find him. Those edits tease Palpatine’s return pretty much perfectly in my opinion, and you should really check them out.

I guess, to me, teasing only doesn’t fix the issue. I added the cultists to Rey’s vision and other subtle things too, but only doing small and subtle things doesn’t fix the abrupt about-face between TLJ and TROS.

If I added Palpatine saying something like “Tell no one of this” from the prequels to the scene on Exegol, would that help?

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RogueLeader said:

Alternatively, I would like to see if you could have Palpatine in TROS, “My boy, I trained Snoke.”

The idea that Snoke was just another apprentice of Palpatine, like Maul, Dooku or Vader before him would make the Snoke-Palpatine connection a lot simpler than Palpatine saying he made him. Him making Snoke still leaves us with a lot of unanswered questions. Who is Snoke a clone of? Why did he have multiple clones of him? Why did Palpatine puppeteer him in particular? Etc, etc. Did Snoke know he was being controlled by Palpatine, or did Palpatine control him completely?

I also think Snoke having his own agency keeps Kylo killing him feel like a big accomplishment rather than just another test by Palpatine.

That’s exactly what I’ve been wanting to do. Is there any instance of Palpatine saying “trained” that would work here?

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 (Edited)

Anakin Starkiller said:

RogueLeader said:

Alternatively, I would like to see if you could have Palpatine in TROS, “My boy, I trained Snoke.”

The idea that Snoke was just another apprentice of Palpatine, like Maul, Dooku or Vader before him would make the Snoke-Palpatine connection a lot simpler than Palpatine saying he made him. Him making Snoke still leaves us with a lot of unanswered questions. Who is Snoke a clone of? Why did he have multiple clones of him? Why did Palpatine puppeteer him in particular? Etc, etc. Did Snoke know he was being controlled by Palpatine, or did Palpatine control him completely?

I also think Snoke having his own agency keeps Kylo killing him feel like a big accomplishment rather than just another test by Palpatine.

That’s exactly what I’ve been wanting to do. Is there any instance of Palpatine saying “trained” that would work here?

I think you’d have to make a frankenbite. He says “train” and “training” a bunch in the other trilogies… but I don’t think he ever uses past tense.

I’ve separated the dialogue pretty well, but haven’t indexed it or anything. If you tell me where to grab I can possibly send you the line.

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 (Edited)

StarkillerAG said:

Just watch Hal’s edits to see what I mean. They’ve added quite a few subtle hints at the true forces behind the First Order, without altering the plot too much. If you want more obvious teasing of Palpatine’s return, watch Poppasketti’s TLJ edit as well. He added Palpatine teases to the entire movie, culminating in Palpatine telling Kylo to find him. Those edits tease Palpatine’s return pretty much perfectly in my opinion, and you should really check them out.

That sounds interesting. Could you please describe how Poppasketti’s TLJ does the hinting well?

StarkillerAG said:

I still don’t think introducing Palpatine so early really works, JakeRyan. It raises the uncomfortable question of why Palpatine’s name is never spoken during the entire runtime of TLJ, even among the First Order. It feels too much like a fan edit, and not enough like something intended by the filmmakers.

My suggestion for connecting Palpatine to the first two movies would be just adding subtle hints, like Hal did in his edits. He did a great job adding teases of Palpatine without making it too obvious. Then, you could include Kylo meeting Palpatine at the very end of TLJ, as a “one year later” flash forward. It would be a nice sequel hook to get people excited for the next movie, and it would allow for Palpatine to be introduced earlier without feeling weird.

You are completely right that adding Palpatine to the first movies is awkward. In fact, I think just dropping Palpatine altogether would make a far better TROS.

However, we have to work with what we have…and what we have isn’t very good.

So I encourage everyone to go as radical as possible in this artform.

Let’s see how well things go with Palpatine introduced in TFA. We should never tell people to NOT experiment. That’s how we find out what does and does not work in order to find the perfect outcome. Let’s not think of these as for “the audience” so much as “an artform to experiment with.”

So let’s see how radical this can get:

Episode 7: Rise of Palpatine.

He now openly runs the first order from TFA, and this movie is showing his first strike back, and the mystery of how he survives will be an major plot point of discussion instead of a throwaway.

A) The opening crawl can establish the peaceful Organa government does not know where Palpatine is or where Starkiller base is…but it’s chaos as he just announced his return after 30 years. Perhaps the fortnite recording can play over various peaceful locals, ending with Leia realizing the danger. Use Leia’s TLJ speeches as warnings as they are suddenly about to be attacked in a time of peace.
B) Snoke’s hologram replaced by Palpatine. This one may be hard…
C) Alternatively, make Snoke a clone that Palpatine’s mind was in. A throwaway line of “this body will soon need to be replaced” or something can be cobbled together with Snoke’s conversation with Rey.
D) Establish the rebellion’s knowledge that Palpatine’s main body needs to be replaced is the information hidden on the droids. This will relate to Kylo below.
E) For dialogue that talks about Palpatine, we already have General Pryde as an acolyte. In fact, including his creepy talk to Palpatine early on could help make the mood darker by altering it to include ALL the First Order as acolytes. This establishes where they suddenly all came from–it’s not just another empire, it’s mostly a cult.
F) We also have Phasma. Since we never see her mouth, we can use lots of Gwendolyn’s dialogue, such as from Game of Thrones, to talk about the Emperor’s return. She already talks about “Black Magic” in Thrones.
G) StarKiller base succeeds in taking out Leia’s government. The strange new weapon’s power can be edited to use lightspeed so it vanishes and thus can’t be traced. Footage from ROTS, heroes despair, sad ending.
H) However, one person does track it down…Kylo Ren, using a Sith wayfinder, the original droid mcGuffin. He has come to kill him and take his power…and Palpatine just laughs.
I) But on the other side of the Galaxy, Rey tracks down Luke Skywalker, who admits he went into exile…because he cannot find a way to beat Darth Sidious.

If I wanted to get crazy, I would incorporate pieces of Mandolorian as well. Incorporate the tests they were doing on baby Yoda as an cloning experiment to make a Midichlorian-powerful enough body to handle Palpatine’s spirit. Without a strong enough body, it destroys the host, hence Snoke becoming decrepit so fast.

I just threw this idea together in 10 mins. Not saying I’m gonna do it, but the thought experiment of trying to make Palpatine a major character from the start is fun.

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So Starkiller base escapes and IS Exegol…
That sounds interesting.

You’ve got to ask yourself one question: “Am I making Carrie Fisher’s ghost proud?”
Well, are ya, punk?

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Nah, sounds too MIDI for the scene. I think the Force theme mixed with Rey’s theme that Hal is including in his edit is probably the best choice.

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What if we made Snoke a different color? To make him more clearly alien rather than the current “sorta but not quite human”.

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 (Edited)

StarkillerAG said:
I still don’t think introducing Palpatine so early really works, JakeRyan. It raises the uncomfortable question of why Palpatine’s name is never spoken during the entire runtime of TLJ

I mean, Luke mentions him in TLJ as Darth Sideous. I don’t think it would be too out of place to mention him in TLJ again, or even give some sort of hints to Rey’s lineage.

“The Ziggy Edit” — A Conceptual Fanedit of Return of the Jedi

https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Episode-VI-Return-of-the-Jedi-The-Ziggy-Edit/id/17844

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ziggyonice said:

StarkillerAG said:
I still don’t think introducing Palpatine so early really works, JakeRyan. It raises the uncomfortable question of why Palpatine’s name is never spoken during the entire runtime of TLJ

I mean, Luke mentions him in TLJ as Darth Sideous. I don’t think it would be too out of place to mention him in TLJ again, or even give some sort of hints to Rey’s lineage.

Also, the goal was not just that single scene being there in Force Awakens, and Kylo would be the only one to know about Palpatine.

I’d have Palpatine telepathically encouraging Kylo to kill Leia:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1bwXR7hUwZ7lZLbEfBkLQiRYZhi6K6sdN/view?usp=sharing

Palpatine’s announcement broadcast would be during the Battle of Crait, just before Luke arrives:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1tUe4Nz4dKptm5UzcBu2QhX9N9FuaISoa/view?usp=sharing

And finally Palpatine would try and telepathically tell Kylo to kill Rey during their last Force connection:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1s-thAiSISTEYqjn0oiyRuoWgdiBScyZ-/view?usp=sharing

So, Palpatine would show up a few times during The Last Jedi, in my mind. I know it’s not everyone’s cup of tea, but to me it’s tough to fix Rise of Skywalker in isolation from adjusting the other films, when TROS is the one that takes such a left turn without setup.

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TheAlaskanSandman said:

Rey kills Palpatine just like he wanted and told her his plan was. Everything plays out as is, then at the last scene when she says Skywalker, her eyes flash Sith and you here Palpatines laugh. Roll credits. Cause she did exactly what Palps wanted and he took her body. Now set to destroy the universe in the name of the Skywalkers

I dig it. That would be possible to do…

I feel like it should be a different scene at the end though, where should the epilogue be? Too bad there’s so little footage of “Dark Rey”, it would be fun to create a new epilogue scene with her.

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JakeRyan17 said:

TheAlaskanSandman said:

Rey kills Palpatine just like he wanted and told her his plan was. Everything plays out as is, then at the last scene when she says Skywalker, her eyes flash Sith and you here Palpatines laugh. Roll credits. Cause she did exactly what Palps wanted and he took her body. Now set to destroy the universe in the name of the Skywalkers

I dig it. That would be possible to do…

I feel like it should be a different scene at the end though, where should the epilogue be? Too bad there’s so little footage of “Dark Rey”, it would be fun to create a new epilogue scene with her.

Yea it would have been nice if they explored Dark Rey more

Muclunkey!
https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/The-Prequel-Trilogy-Revised-Trailer/id/70831

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TheAlaskanSandman said:

JakeRyan17 said:

TheAlaskanSandman said:

Rey kills Palpatine just like he wanted and told her his plan was. Everything plays out as is, then at the last scene when she says Skywalker, her eyes flash Sith and you here Palpatines laugh. Roll credits. Cause she did exactly what Palps wanted and he took her body. Now set to destroy the universe in the name of the Skywalkers

I dig it. That would be possible to do…

I feel like it should be a different scene at the end though, where should the epilogue be? Too bad there’s so little footage of “Dark Rey”, it would be fun to create a new epilogue scene with her.

Yea it would have been nice if they explored Dark Rey more

Or at all… 😂

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 (Edited)

Rework Solo to make it about Han Solo…jr.

Use a scene of older Harrison Ford talking about his son, then cut to Alden Ehrenreich.

Of course, this will require changing Kylo to not be Han’s son…unless they’re brothers. Hmmm.

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thebluefrog said:

Rework Solo to make it about Han Solo…jr.

Use a scene of older Harrison Ford talking about his son, then cut to Alden Ehrenreich.

That would be QUITE the rework, haha. What would you do about the Empire?

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JakeRyan17 said:

thebluefrog said:

Rework Solo to make it about Han Solo…jr.

Use a scene of older Harrison Ford talking about his son, then cut to Alden Ehrenreich.

That would be QUITE the rework, haha. What would you do about the Empire?

Change every word “empire” to be “first order”, of course.

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thebluefrog said:

JakeRyan17 said:

thebluefrog said:

Rework Solo to make it about Han Solo…jr.

Use a scene of older Harrison Ford talking about his son, then cut to Alden Ehrenreich.

That would be QUITE the rework, haha. What would you do about the Empire?

Change every word “empire” to be “first order”, of course.

But the Stormtroopers aren’t the same… would you have someone CG out helmets?