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Unusual Sequel Trilogy Radical Redux Ideas Thread — Page 57

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Movies Remastered said:

JakeRyan17 said:

But Sad/Grumpy Luke and Han being a smuggler again were both decisions Abrams made.

Too end TFA on such a climax only to be tossed away in TLJ felt like a complete middle finger, imo.

Was Grump Luke JJs idea? It seems to have come from Johnson. Hopefully all these issues will be fixed at some point in the future.

That was the basic problem with TLJ’s writing. The bathos. Every serious moment had to have a silly manchild moment to break the tension. Lucas had a bad habit of this too, but not nearly as much.

TFA has a big emotional buildup of Rey tearfully holding up the symbol of the franchise…and Luke tosses it aside, KLUNK!

Snoke is creepily holding Rey immobile, Daisy is clenching her teeth in fear and trepidation…then we cut to BB-8 slipping into a wall, WONK!

Rey tries to force-grab her saber and kill Snoke, he casually proves his telekinesis powers overwhelm her as it misses her hand…and then her sword hits her in the back of the head, BONK!

Jar-Jar almost ruined Phantom with his slapstick; we’re lucky that at least SOME editor kept Lucas’ manchild humor in check for the most part. Imagine if, when Luke confronted Palpatine, Vader BONKS Luke in the back of his head with an unlit saber. It would’ve totally killed any tension or threat of the scene.

TLJ had good moments, but Rian insisted on being That Guy who liked to make inappropriate jokes in moments of seriousness because being too serious is uncomfortable, especially for kids.

This guy explains it better than I can (he does good commentary on movies, btw):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuuDTnMPMgc

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If JJ had only written his intention into the script so that things were set up, instead of only setting up exactly what Johnson did.

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JakeRyan17 said:

If JJ had only written his intention into the script so that things were set up, instead of only setting up exactly what Johnson did.

Well, he intentionally set it up so that Rian could go any way. But unfortunately, it seems like Rian has a serious lack of imagination when he’s working on a sequel to someone else’s work.

Why is Luke in exile? Because he just wanted to run away.
Where did Snoke come from? I don’t know, let’s just kill him instead.
Why is Rey so powerful? Doesn’t matter, and you’re stupid for asking.

It feels like Rian just went with the least creative option every time, and the story suffers as a result.

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He went with the choices that deepened character arcs rather than Wookiepedia pages.

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I think this is the wrong thread for this.

You’ve got to ask yourself one question: “Am I making Carrie Fisher’s ghost proud?”
Well, are ya, punk?

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thebluefrog said:

That was the basic problem with TLJ’s writing. The bathos. Every serious moment had to have a silly manchild moment to break the tension. Lucas had a bad habit of this too, but not nearly as much.

Talk about it. It seems like Rian ignored the first rule of works that mix drama and comedy: The amount of comedy decreases with the amount of drama that’s going on. The OT followed that rule to great effect, only cracking jokes when there’s not much dramatic stuff going on. In TLJ, comedy is just randomly inserted into dramatic scenes, and it kills the tension as a result.

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I would argue that was by design. In life, things don’t happen in such a perfect order. I think he was trying to make the characters more fleshed out, especially as they had so little depth or development in The Force Awakens.

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JakeRyan17 said:

He went with the choices that deepened character arcs rather than Wookiepedia pages.

Who’s to say that alternate choices wouldn’t have deepened character arcs? If anything, Rian’s overly simplistic choices made the characters seem much more flat than they could have been. Most of TLJ’s character development is just “they did it in the first movie, they do it in this movie”. Rey tries to find an identity for herself, Finn joins the Resistance, and Kylo tries to avoid being good. There’s no new dimensions added to any of the characters, when alternate choices could have made character development much richer.

I agree with Ed that this is the wrong place for this discussion though.

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JakeRyan17 said:

I would argue that was by design. In life, things don’t happen in such a perfect order. I think he was trying to make the characters more fleshed out, especially as they had so little depth or development in The Force Awakens.

Well, movies aren’t real life. It’s like complaining about how nobody sneezes in Jurassic Park, or how nobody goes to the bathroom in Avengers. That sort of awkward stuff is typically removed in movies to increase tension. As a third-person observer, stupid jokes and awkward humor can kill tension flat.

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Do films have to mimic life? No. Do some filmmakers choose to have that happen? Yes.

And can we not say characters were flat in Last Jedi when there was no character development present at all in Force Awakens? C’mon now…

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 (Edited)

You guys do realize there are discussion threads for these movies right? You don’t need to keep making the same 5 dumb complaints over and over again here.

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JakeRyan17 said:

Do films have to mimic life? No. Do some filmmakers choose to have that happen? Yes.

Yes, but most of the time movies that mimic real life are comedies. A supposedly “serious” movie doing that kind of stuff is just weird and awkward.

And can we not say characters were flat in Last Jedi when there was no character development present at all in Force Awakens? C’mon now…

That’s why there needed to be more development in The Last Jedi. The characters were flat in that movie because they were also flat in The Force Awakens, and Rian had no clue how to expand their stories in a satisfying way.

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DominicCobb said:

You guys do realize there are discussion threads for these movies right? You don’t need to keep making the same 5 dumb complaints over and over again here.

That’s why I said that we should probably take this somewhere else.

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It was highly satisfying, especially with the parallel arcs.

Note that this conversation started with someone saying “I know people hate Last Jedi, but…” and asking about a deleted scene.

Replies started with how TLJ-friendly the site is and now it’s just people trashing it even after people have tried to get back on topic. Can we get back on topic now?

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JakeRyan17 said:

Note that this conversation started with someone saying “I know people hate Last Jedi, but…” and asking about a deleted scene.

Replies started with how TLJ-friendly the site is and now it’s just people trashing it even after people have tried to get back on topic. Can we get back on topic now?

Yeah, this conversation got way out of hand. Let’s just agree to disagree.

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So, back to that original comment, does anyone know how to go about finishing that deleted scene? Like, what all would it take?

Would Finn, Phasma, and the other troopers need to be re-cut out from the footage? Are there any existing/accessible assets to be used as a new backdrop?

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 (Edited)

Movies Remastered said:

Too end TFA on such a climax only to be tossed away in TLJ felt like a complete middle finger, imo.

Which is why he should’ve thrown the lightsaber right before the wipe to credits.

He went with the choices that deepened character arcs rather than Wookiepedia pages.

This.

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Anyway, to bring the topic of the thread back, if all the OT heroes end up old and miserable, why not copy the style of the Irishman? A 5 and a half hour movie spanning ~35 years with segments of the OT and all the ST jammed in. No other SW flair, so no opening crawl. Instead the opening credits would be a montage like Mean Streets (still using Be My Baby), showing footage of the OT when everyone’s happy. The whole film would have a similar soundtrack to Scorsese’s mob movies. If you’re wanting an unusual redux idea, why not swing for the fences. Could be like Pulp Empire but miserable.

(I’m half serious about this)

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StarkillerAG said:

JakeRyan17 said:

I would argue that was by design. In life, things don’t happen in such a perfect order. I think he was trying to make the characters more fleshed out, especially as they had so little depth or development in The Force Awakens.

Well, movies aren’t real life. It’s like complaining about how nobody sneezes in Jurassic Park, or how nobody goes to the bathroom in Avengers. That sort of awkward stuff is typically removed in movies to increase tension. As a third-person observer, stupid jokes and awkward humor can kill tension flat.

The Diplodocus sneezes in Jurassic Park and iron man pees in his suit 😉

Check out - http://www.youtube.com/moviesremastered

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Movies Remastered said:

StarkillerAG said:

JakeRyan17 said:

I would argue that was by design. In life, things don’t happen in such a perfect order. I think he was trying to make the characters more fleshed out, especially as they had so little depth or development in The Force Awakens.

Well, movies aren’t real life. It’s like complaining about how nobody sneezes in Jurassic Park, or how nobody goes to the bathroom in Avengers. That sort of awkward stuff is typically removed in movies to increase tension. As a third-person observer, stupid jokes and awkward humor can kill tension flat.

The Diplodocus sneezes in Jurassic Park and iron man pees in his suit 😉

Goddammit MR, you ruined my point! 😉

Although technically, those were just one off gag sequences, and didn’t interfere with the tension of the movie. I was just contrasting that to TLJ’s nonstop use of bathos.

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StarkillerAG said:

Movies Remastered said:

StarkillerAG said:

JakeRyan17 said:

I would argue that was by design. In life, things don’t happen in such a perfect order. I think he was trying to make the characters more fleshed out, especially as they had so little depth or development in The Force Awakens.

Well, movies aren’t real life. It’s like complaining about how nobody sneezes in Jurassic Park, or how nobody goes to the bathroom in Avengers. That sort of awkward stuff is typically removed in movies to increase tension. As a third-person observer, stupid jokes and awkward humor can kill tension flat.

The Diplodocus sneezes in Jurassic Park and iron man pees in his suit 😉

Goddammit MR, you ruined my point! 😉

Although technically, those were just one off gag sequences, and didn’t interfere with the tension of the movie. I was just contrasting that to TLJ’s nonstop use of bathos.

Others disagree with you, can we move on now?

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JakeRyan17 said:

StarkillerAG said:

Movies Remastered said:

StarkillerAG said:

JakeRyan17 said:

I would argue that was by design. In life, things don’t happen in such a perfect order. I think he was trying to make the characters more fleshed out, especially as they had so little depth or development in The Force Awakens.

Well, movies aren’t real life. It’s like complaining about how nobody sneezes in Jurassic Park, or how nobody goes to the bathroom in Avengers. That sort of awkward stuff is typically removed in movies to increase tension. As a third-person observer, stupid jokes and awkward humor can kill tension flat.

The Diplodocus sneezes in Jurassic Park and iron man pees in his suit 😉

Goddammit MR, you ruined my point! 😉

Although technically, those were just one off gag sequences, and didn’t interfere with the tension of the movie. I was just contrasting that to TLJ’s nonstop use of bathos.

Others disagree with you, can we move on now?

Others disagree with you too, so yes, we should move on.

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Dude, you’re the one that will not stop. Please stop. If you don’t have an idea or a solution to what sparked people talking about The Last Jedi, you don’t need to reply.

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JakeRyan17 said:

Dude, you’re the one that will not stop. Please stop. If you don’t have an idea or a solution to what sparked people talking about The Last Jedi, you don’t need to reply.

I said we should move on. What more do you want?

As for the deleted scene thing, I don’t think it’s feasible to restore. The effects are so unfinished that it would take a professional VFX artist to restore. A shame too, since it’s such a great scene.

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StarkillerAG said:

JakeRyan17 said:

Dude, you’re the one that will not stop. Please stop. If you don’t have an idea or a solution to what sparked people talking about The Last Jedi, you don’t need to reply.

I said we should move on. What more do you want?

As for the deleted scene thing, I don’t think it’s feasible to restore. The effects are so unfinished that it would take a professional VFX artist to restore. A shame too, since it’s such a great scene.

Get Corridor Crew on it!

Why don’t you say something righteous and hopeful for a change? - oojason
Episode 9 Rewrite THE SHATTERED SWORD (Complete!)
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