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Unusual Sequel Trilogy Radical Redux Ideas Thread — Page 112

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Darth Raditz said:

Going with the idea that the dagger was created by Palpatine, have Rey use that against him. Rey faces her fear, focuses in on the dagger’s origin, and uses that to get to Exegol (and leave coordinates for the Resistance to follow. That’s how you get around the lack of Wayfinders.

Nah, sorry, I can’t buy that. If Rey could use the dagger itself to find Exegol, they never would have gone to Endor in the first place. Remember, the dagger was made to guide the user to a Wayfinder. This is stated several times in the movie. Plus, there’s no indication she has it with her on Ahch-To. I think it got dropped somewhere on the Death Star wreckage? Not sure.

EDIT: Yeah, just checked the movie. The dagger was in her bag, which mysteriously disappears once Kylo appears in front of her. I’m assuming that in canon it was set on the ground in the destroyed throne room.

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Ascendant already makes it so Rey was at Ach-To for a full night, you can just reuse and regrade scenes of her meditating on her visions, the dagger, & Exegol, figuring out where it is (recolor her gray robes white if you have to).

Better yet, have Rey follow the fleet to Exegol because D-O has the star charts to Exegol in its memory banks. Other editors have made D-O the ture key to getting to Exegol, so it’s not a huge stretch.

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I wanted to take another crack at Rouge Leader’s idea of turning the ST’s weaknesses into strengths/Kylo’s growing nihilism about the galaxy/SW, while also keeping Nev’s ideas of the dagger being a plant/the Sith or Death visions, and addressing Eddie’s concerns of why Palpatine would perpetuate this cycle:

Kylo: (Force Skyping Rey on Pasana) Palpatine wants us to fight.

Rey: Serving another master?

Kylo: No. Don’t play his game, Rey. I offered you my hand, once. You wanted to take it. Why didn’t you?

Rey: You could’ve killed me. Why didn’t you?

Kylo: I’m sick of playing out the same cycles, over and over.

Rey: I see through the cracks in your mask. You’re haunted. You can’t stop seeing what you did to your father.

Kylo: I’ve been haunted since my Jedi days. Since I started hearing the voice of Vader in my head. And it’s lead me to this moment. I’m going to find you…When I offer you my hand again…you’ll take it.

Rey: We’ll see.

(In Kylo’s quarters)

Kylo: Rey…Wherever you are…you are hard to find.

Rey: You are hard to get rid of.

Kylo: I pushed you in the desert because I needed to see it…I needed you to see it…who you are. Darkness is in your nature. Rey…

Rey: You’re lying.

Kylo: You said your parents were nobody. But the dagger you found tells another story.

Rey: Don’t!

Kylo: It revealed your parent’s fate. Are you still afraid to see it?

Rey: I don’t want this!

Kylo: Search your memories!

Rey: No!

Kylo: Remember them. See them!

(Rey sees her parents protecting her, and their death)

Kylo: They paid for your protection…in more ways than one.

Rey: Stop talking.

Kylo: Rey…they were protecting you from Palpatine.

(Cutaway to heroes capture)

Kylo: I didn’t believe Palpatine either, when he told me who you were. He’s lied to me for years…inside my head…in the voices of Vader…Snoke. But the dagger proved he was right…about who you really are.

Rey: No!

(Vader’s mask falls to the ground)

Kylo: So that’s where you are.

Kylo: You know why the Emperor’s always wanted you dead. I’ll come tell you.

(In the Hangar)

Rey: Why did the Emperor come for me? Why did he want to kill a child? Tell me.

Kylo: Because he saw what you would become. You don’t just have power. You have his power. You’re his granddaughter.

Kylo: Skywalker & Palpatine, fighting the same old war. Forced between the Dark Side or death. But now we’re connected, by a power the Emperor cannot comprehend. Run away with me, and we’ll forge a new destiny…together.

Kylo: You know what you need to do. You know.

Rey: I do.

As far as solving the issue of “why would Kylo still have his Wayfinder if he doesn’t want to play Palpatine’s game/how does Rey get to Exegol without either Wayfinder,” I have another idea. Instead of cutting to the Wayfinder in the X-Wing, we could do a brief cut back to when Kylo first made his way to Exegol in black & white. Imply that Rey is using her bond with Kylo to search his memories in order to recreate the path to Exegol. It’s not totally farfetched, within the same realms of possibility of D-O having a map to Exegol stored away, at least.

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The shared memories they have through the dyad is definitely a sufficient explanation.

At this point, the only problem with this idea is that if Kylo really wanted to be finished with all of this, running away with Rey, then he definitely would have just killed Palpatine on Exegol. Because he wouldn’t care about being offered the fleet. There’s no reason he’d even hesitate killing him, and be curious by saying, “What could you give me?” Because this characterization is meant to emphasize that he doesn’t care about gaining power anymore.

One other thing worth noting is that his offer is technically a retread for Rey’s character from TFA, and one that is quite easy for her to accept this time around given the alternative. In that movie, Finn was the one asking her to just run away from all this with him. Now, yes, Kylo’s offer being to end the Sith is a retread of TLJ, but the difference would be the emphasis that she apparently belongs to Palpatine / is fated to be Palpatine’s. And that the only way to resist that would be to work together. Which makes her decision have a completely different context - join Kylo Ren to end the Sith and start a new dark order, or go alone and become the heir to the Sith. That’s an impossible decision to make.

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I suppose there is another problem as I’ve given it further thought. You don’t want the audience to be mad at Rey for not taking up Kylo’s offer, which is why making his offer too tempting compared to the alternative is risky. In this case, it would either be running away with him, or going to Exegol and almost assuredly becoming Empress. Especially since Kylo is seemingly okay with forgoing power over the First Order, I see absolutely no reason why Rey wouldn’t accept his offer. And since she has to decline, I think most people would think she’s being idiotic. Remember, the only reason she declined Kylo in TLJ was precisely because of his urge for power. And on that note, after she heals him, I see absolutely no reason in this new chain of events why she wouldn’t tell Ben to come with her to Ahch-To, as she’s finally come to terms with the idea that he was right all along. The reason why she doesn’t do this in the original TROS is because she is still under the impression that he wants power, and leaves before she realizes that he’s changed.

I’m not commenting these things to bash the idea, I just want to clarify any possible problems with it so that fixes for these plot holes can be thought of before any real work begins. Or perhaps so an entirely different idea can be thought of if this one has too many holes.

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Depending on the execution of Leia dying/Kylo being healed, you could say that Rey is so ashamed of her actions that she decides to go full hermit mode (especially if she blames herself for Leia’s death). As far as plugging plotholes, maybe a little tweak to the end of Kylo’s hangar speech:

Skywalker & Palpatine, fighting the same old war. Alone, all that waits is the Dark Side or death. But together, through our bond, we have the power to grant the galaxy a fresh start…together."

Or, if that’s still too soft-hearted of Kylo Ren:

Skywalker & Palpatine, fighting the same old war. Alone, all that waits is the Dark Side or death. But together, through our bond, we can restart…make things the way we want them to be!"

The ending bit is more passionate/self-centered on Kylo’s part, and it’s a direct callback to what Anakin told Padme on Mustafar in RotS. Even when Kylo’s trying to do right, he’s doing it wrong.

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I like that second line a bunch. I’m probably gonna snatch that for my own purposes: “We can end him and the Sith… and make things the way we want them to be.” But I think the fact that it is more suited for an edit like mine is exactly the proof that him giving up doesn’t work.

Again, the only problem is that Kylo really ought to have killed Palpatine without hesitation at the beginning if he just wants to hide. There has to be a reason Palpatine being alive is more favorable for him going into hiding than him being dead and going into hiding. And honestly the only one that makes sense is what Ascendant currently has at the beginning: “Kill me, and my spirit will pass into you, as all the Sith live in me”. But then you’d still have to replace Kylo’s line of “What could you give me?” with something less power hungry and also change Palpatine’s voiceover on the rising fleet to something along the lines of “Stop the girl from becoming a Jedi and I’ll let you live out the rest of your days in peace”

And at this point most of the lines are going to be AI, which is a sign that him peacing out might not be the most optimal idea.

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I’m trying to lean away from Kylo wanting to hide angle to more “I’m sick of the same thing playing out again and again,” hence still trying to get Rey to join him.

Also, in my ideal vision, Kylo doesn’t really take a moment to consider his life and Palpatine’s offer until he touches Vader’s mask again in TRoS. The way I have it played out is that he hears Palpatine over the radio on Crait (inspired by popasketti’s edit), searches rumors of Palpatine’s survival for a year, then after seeing Zombie Palpatine, goes into a state of shock when he realizes his life has been a lie. If, like RogueLeader said, TFA were edited to make Kylo have a vision of Vader saying “if the Jedi are not destroyed, there will be civil war without end,” then Kylo’s vision in TRoS can have him heat the same dialogue, but in Palpatine’s voice.

Currently, I see Kylo’s motivation not so much as wanting to run away with Rey but more “either we kill Palpatine together or not at all.” And in that light, I’m not sure if he would destroy his own Wayfinder, since his Plan A is “kill Palpatine with Rey at my side.” It’s just he’s still a bit power hungry, which is why Rey doesn’t trust him. Actually, let me tweak the speech a bit more:

“Skywalker & Palpatine, still fighting his war. Alone, all that waits is the Dark Side or death. But together, through our bond, we’ll have peace…make things the way we want them to be!"”

Another call back to RotS, this time with Palpatine telling Vader that with the Sith ruling the galaxy, they will have peace. Kylo’s arc here is almost an inverse of Anakin’s RotS arc, so desperate to rise (heh) above his baser instincts, but still beholden to a toxic mindset he’s been groomed all his life into.

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So, I watched a video by Schaffrillas Productions on the Star Wars opening crawls, and he made two very salient points: The best crawls draw a straight line form the last movie to the first movie, and RotJ was great at being a capstone to, what was at the time, all of Star Wars as a whole.

While the theatrical cut of TRos does neither of these things, I notice that even fanedits like Ascendant only address the first point, like it’s just another chapter of the Skywalker Saga and not the conclusion of nine films that it is/was. So, I wrote something last night, woke up feeling unsatisfied with the first paragraph, rewrote it, & will post both versions, see what feedback I get. Here’s the second draft:

Luke Skywalker is dead.
While his sacrifice sparked the
flames of hope across the galaxy,
they risk being extinguished by
the vicious Knights Of Ren.

Since the death of her master, Rey,
the LAST Jedi, has thrown herself
into training and studying the
teachings left to her, so that she
may be better equipped to help
the small yet unfettered Resistance.

Meanwhile, Supreme Leader
Kylo Ren has traveled to
Mustafar, chasing whispers of
an OLD POWER that, when
unleashed, will spell the end of
everything…

This crawl sets up a very dire situation for the state of things. It’s similar to Ascendant, but with a callback to TFA’s crawl in the first paragraph with the one word sentence that sets the stage for the film. I also went with Knights of Ren over First Order because (A) it lets people know we’ll actually see the Knights this movie & (B) it shows that The First Order and it’s figurehead, Hux, are more or less on their way out.

For the second paragraph I call Rey “the LAST Jedi,” which I find works in a number of ways. First, it’s a callback to both TLJ and another one to the TFA crawl, where that phrase first appeared. Second, the reason “LAST” is capitalized is to hammer home that she’s the only one left. No “there is another” safety net, if she goes down, the Jedi are over. The reason I don’t include Leia is because she never completed her Jedi training, and like Maz said in TFA, you don’t need to be a Jedi to know of the Force. This paragraph will also be echoed by Poe later when he tells Rey that she’s their best fighter and should be out on missions. Again, increase the direness of the situation.

Last paragraph, again, very much like Ascendant’s crawl, but I replaced “hidden power” with “OLD POWER” to both hammer home that what Kylo’s searching for is important as well as emphasize how Palpatine has been a part of this war for a long time. Also, as opposed to more passive language in other paragraphs (“risk being extinguished,” “may be better equipped”), the last phrase of the crawl uses very strong language of “when unleashed, will spell the end of everything.” Hard to be more encompassing of the end of the Skywalker Saga than that. Plus, having the last line of the last main crawl be the word “everything” foreshadows how Palpatine will give Kylo “everything.”

For arguments sake, here’s the first draft:

Luke Skywalker is dead, but
his sacrifice sparked the flames
of rebellion across the galaxy,
uniting people more than ever
against the despotic First Order.

Since the death of her master, Rey,
the LAST Jedi, has thrown herself
into training and studying the
teachings left to her, so that she
may be better equipped to help
the brave yet thinly spread Resistance.

Meanwhile, Supreme Leader
Kylo Ren has traveled to
Mustafar, chasing whispers of
an OLD POWER that, when
unleashed, will spell the end of
everything…

First paragraph is a bit more optimistic, more of a positive spin on Luke’s sacrifice, and actually used First Order here because it’s almost a given that their days are numbered. For the second paragraph, the end started as “brave yet thinly spread” to “small yet unfettered.” The former was an awkward attempt of showing how the galaxy is rising up while still painting the Resistance as the underdogs. Just because they’re united across the galaxy doesn’t mean they’re organized/centralized.

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Ascendant’s crawl is arguably perfect the way it is. The title of the movie itself allows the first line which follows it to gain its intended meaning that Luke’s sacrifice is responsible for the flames of rebellion without spelling it out for the audience like they’re dumb. The only part I’d change is probably the last paragraph, but that’s only because of a matter of interpretation:

Meanwhile, Supreme Leader Kylo Ren travels to Mustafar, chasing whispers of a HIDDEN POWER that stands to usurp his vulnerable regime. . . .

Kylo Ren is clearly very angry at the beginning of the movie, and goes in weapons blazing on Exegol. It doesn’t seem like he initially went there to negotiate for a power that could stop the growing Resistance, that’s just what became of it in the end. So whoever wrote it only considered what was going to happen with that power, and not what it represented to Kylo initially. But I suppose I can live with that so the audience understands the importance of the fleet to Kylo.

As for your crawl, if you’d genuinely like some feedback, I do have some. As I stated before, you don’t need to reference Luke with the title being right there. You shouldn’t set up the KoR as some massive threat in the crawl because they do virtually nothing in the film. Luke was arguably never Rey’s master, he just taught her why the Jedi ought to end. “Thrown herself into” is awkward wording, “undertaken” is better. I think it’s important to establish that Leia was responsible for making the civilian fleet possible in the first place. There is some conflict between the idea of the Resistance being “thinly spread” and everyone rising up, especially if you consider the Resistance as an idea and not just the organization. I guess the final paragraph is meant to cast Kylo in a more noble light, but honestly I just fundamentally disagree with the entire approach. Which I can best summarize with “I did want to take your hand. Ben’s hand.” Him showing any sort of indication that his intentions are pure means Rey is justified in thinking she can take his hand and “fix” him. There has to be a fundamental difference in ideology present, and it’s already baked into the film itself: “The dark side is in our nature. Surrender to it.” In my opinion, an edit of this film should be streamlining all the character motivations, not adding additional layers to make things more confusing and contradictory.

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I still want to keep the first line of my crawl, since it’s more than just a callback to TFA’s crawl. Going back to the idea of TRoS’ crawl being a send up of the entire Saga, hammering home that Luke, the man who started it all, is dead, serves as a grim reminder to the audience. Again, there are no more safety nets. The galaxy is a scarier place now, everything more or less depends on Rey & Leia can only help her so much.

I’m more or less satisfied with the final bit of hangar dialogue. As an audience member, I like the idea of someone in-universe going “seriously, Palpatine again?” & Kylo lends himself better to that idea than most. As far as streamlining motivations, Kylo still thinks too deeply in Sith terms, which is why Rey doesn’t join him then & there (plus the Palpatine-lie that shatters her worldview). You could easily delete her saying the “I did want to take your hand” line, especially if she senses Leia’s dying as a result of healing her son. Rey runs away in shame, and we avoid any unfortunate implications of her “fixing” Kylo.

Take three on the crawl:

Luke Skywalker is dead.
While his sacrifice sparked the
flames of hope across the galaxy,
they risk being extinguished by
the despotic First Order.

Since the Battle of Crait, Rey,
the LAST Jedi, has undertaken
strenuous training and studies the
teachings left to her, so that she may
better assist General Leia Organa’s
small yet unfettered Resistance.

Meanwhile, Supreme Leader Kylo Ren
has traveled to Mustafar, blindly
chasing whispers of an OLD POWER
that, when uncovered, will spell the end of
everything…

I did take out the second mention of Luke death (since I realized that was a bit much), and played more into Kylo’s blind rage at the beginning of the movie.

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Oh and I forgot to mention that bolding a certain word is only ever done if it’s an independent word or an entire phrase is bolded.

There’s also the fact that Kylo is seemingly trusting a random Sith artifact despite the fact that he has a bad history with trusting Vader’s mask, another Sith artifact.

You’d have to cut so much stuff in order for this idea to work that I think you’d be better off forgoing the whole Rey Palpatine thing in general.

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True, it is a difficult needle to thread, but not impossible. As far as the big picture goes, it’s a matter of Kylo not wanting to be beholden to Palpatine, but not necessarily not trusting him, either. He could still think that Rey is Palpatine’s granddaughter because that’s the only way he can rationalize Rey being as powerful as she is. Or he believes it because Rey believes it. I’ve hammered out the hangar scene again:

Kylo: Rey…Wherever you are…you are hard to find.
Rey: You are hard to get rid of.
Kylo: I pushed you in the desert because I needed to see it…I needed you to see it…who you are. Darkness is in your nature. Rey…
Rey: You’re lying.
Kylo: You said your parents were nobody. The way I see it, the only liar here is you.
Rey: Don’t!
Kylo: I’ve been inside your head. Are you afraid to admit it?
Rey: I don’t want this!
Kylo: Search your memories!
Rey: No!
Kylo: Your parents. See them!
(Rey sees her parents protecting her, and their death)
Kylo: They paid for your protection…in more ways than one.
Rey: Stop talking.
Kylo: Rey…they were protecting you from Palpatine.
(Cutaway to heroes capture)
Kylo: Think about it, Rey. About how you’ve grown so powerful, so fast. About how our bond in the force could be created. And yet you still resist the truth. Be honest about who you are, Rey!
Rey: No!
(Vader’s mask falls to the ground)
Kylo: So that’s where you are.
Kylo: You know why the Emperor’s always wanted you dead. I’ll come tell you.
(In the Hangar)
Rey: Why did the Emperor come for me? Why did he want to kill a child? Tell me.
Kylo: Because he saw what you would become. You don’t just have power. You have his power. You’re his granddaughter.
Kylo: Skywalker & Palpatine, still fighting his war. Alone, all that waits is the Dark Side or death. But together, through our bond, we’ll have peace…make things the way we want them to be!
Kylo: You know what you need to do. You know.
Rey: I do.

This way it’s more that Kylo is coming to his own conclusion about Rey’s origin, even if he’s incorrect. As far as having our cake and eating it too, let’s go back to my idea of Rey getting to Exegol using Kylo’s memories (using previous scenes in a black & white filter to show she’s calling on them). I think we can do the same with denoting what parts of Kylo & Rey’s visions are true and which ones are fabrications. When Kylo thinks back on his past actions or we see the TFA flashback of Rey’s parents abandoning her, those moments are in black & white, meaning they actually happened. When we see visions of Kylo/Rey dying on Exegol, Kylo/Rey on the Sith Throne, or Rey’s parents telling her to be brave, those scenes are in color (or saturated color), meaning there’s something off about those visions.

I think you could cheat by mixing black & white visions with the saturated color visions. For example, Rey’s parents telling her to be brave in color, Rey’s parents abandoning her in black and white, a shot of Ochi in black & white (with the dagger cropped out), and Rey’s parents dying in color. I wonder if it’s worth reinstating the ticking clock to add pressure to the situation, so that Rey & Kylo don’t really have time to question. If all else fails, Nev’s given us a good skeleton for a “Rey Nopatine” edit, I’m just trying to figure out what muscle I can add to it.

As far as capitalization in the text crawl goes, I’ve already explained my reasons well. Besides, treating this as the end of the Skywalker Saga, I think it’s fine to be experimental in what could be capitalized.

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An idea I’ve had for a while but don’t think I’ve ever shared: to better parallel the Blue-vs-Blue duel from RotS, have the Skywalker lightsaber be red during the duel on Kef-Bir. (This would also just make the duel more visually striking, I think).
It wouldn’t have to be Red for the whole movie - it could turn red when Rey activates it in the Throne Room (implying that her vision in the vault made the crystal bleed) and then it could turn blue again when Ben gets it on Exegol.
I’ve tried editing this in myself but it’s very tedious - and given how quickly the edit that turns Leia’s Saber purple was made, presumably there are some people here for whom it’s easier (and the amount of time the lightsaber spends on screen between the throne room and the KoR fight isn’t much longer than the amount of screen time Leia’s saber got).
So if anyone else is interested in actually doing this I’d love to know.

You’ve got to ask yourself one question: “Am I making Carrie Fisher’s ghost proud?”
Well, are ya, punk?

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I’d definitely like to see it, not sure if I’d want to see the final fight without a single blue saber, but I’d still like to see the idea get made somehow, it has merit.

I like you, let us burn things together.

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That makes perfect sense poetically (blue vs. blue on red / red vs. red on blue) but zero sense narratively.

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I think I had a couple of ideas that could fix the Sequel Trilogy. However, they can’t be implemented right now, because they are very radical ideas and we still don’t have the means to implement them. Therefore, we should wait for the technology to advance enough as to allow us to create entire new scenes, with a good mix of AI and CGI.

My ideas are:

  1. Modifying the reason that brought Luke to go into exile in The Last Jedi. Instead of going into exile to hide from his responsibilities, Luke went into exile to meditate, understand what he did wrong with Kylo and his New Jedi Order, and study a way to defeat the First Order. When Rey arrives, he realizes that the time has come, so he tells Rey what he did wrong, what the Jedi Order from the Prequels did wrong, and tells her that the Jedi need to be reformed (exactly in the same way Luke reformed the Jedi Order in Legends by abolishing some of the old rules). Then, he dies at the end of The Last Jedi by sacrificing himself to allow the Resistance to escape from Crait.

  2. In The Rise of Skywalker, Palpatine doesn’t come back. Instead, it is Snoke the one who comes back. After all, if Palpatine can come back, why can’t Snoke? So, everything from The Rise of Skywalker would be very similar to the original version of the movie, but with resurrected Snoke instead of resurrected Palpatine. Snoke pretends to want to give Kylo another chance to rule the Galaxy with him, and pushes him to bring Rey before him. However, when she arrives he reveals that she was his real target for the entire movie, because she is much more powerful than Kylo ever was, and Snoke wants her to become his new apprentice. He reveals that Rey is Palpatine’s granddaughter, and that this is the reason for her abnormous power. Then, he also reveals that he has always been Vitiate all along, and has waited in hiding since the times of the Old Republic. He was waiting for the right time to come and reclaim the Galaxy for himself.

  3. In the final confrontation with resurrected Snoke/Vitiate, the Force ghosts of Anakin, Luke, Leia, Obi-Wan, Yoda and Qui-Gon appear. Anakin’s ghost is the one who actually defeats Snoke/Vitiate, thus ending the Sith for good, and confirming that he was indeed the Chosen One who was destined to destroy the Sith once and for all.

  4. At the end of The Rise of Skywalker, both Rey and a redeemed Ben Solo survive. We have a small time jump of some years, and the last thing we see is the two of them standing before a class of students in the New Jedi Temple on Naboo, telling them about the adventures of Luke and Anakin Skywalker, and teaching them the importance of redemption.

What do you think?

“Sometimes we must let go of our pride, and do what is requested to us.”
– Anakin Skywalker

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Spartacus01 said:

  1. At the end of The Rise of Skywalker, both Rey and a redeemed Ben Solo survive. We have a small time jump of some years, and the last thing we see is the two of them standing before a class of students in the New Jedi Temple on Naboo, telling them about the adventures of Luke and Anakin Skywalker, and teaching them the importance of redemption.

This one (or something similar) actually is probably doable (sans Kylo) with current technology using footage from the Rey movie, if there’s a scene featuring something of the sort. Though what Rey is saying might have be a bit different, even with AI lines.

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Not necessarily connected to any of my previous ideas, but there’s a bit of dialogue from the DotF script Leia had that I’d love to see inserted back in. After Rey decided to go off alone, Luke & Leia have a discussion concerning her & the Jedi Order. Luke says the reason the Jedi Order lived in isolation is because the pain of loss leads to the dark side. Leia has a response that perfectly encapsulates her character:

“I’ve lost everything, and everyone. But I’d still choose to love.”

I know some editors have wanted to resurrect the idea of of Ghost Luke taunting Kylo, but I’d be more than happy to reinsert this Leia dialogue to after the Rey Palpatine reveal, using the clip of Kylo on the bridge, staring out into space in his cracked mask:

Kylo: She’s (Rey) in pain. We both are.

Leia: Ben…

Kylo: I understand now why Luke hid himself. Grief & loss just lead to the dark side.

Leia: I’ve lost everything, and everyone. But I’d still choose to love.

Kylo: (no response)

Leia: Ben?

Kylo: (walks off, scene ends)

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No offense, but that ruins the entire point of Leia reaching out to Kylo before he hurts Rey. It has to be the first time she does such a thing so it’s shocking enough for Ben to stop him in his tracks. Plus, her doing such a thing would require “all the strength she has left”, meaning she’d be dead before Endor. The reason it has to be Luke is that he isn’t confined to the rules of Force projection anymore since he’s a ghost.

Plus, Luke never “taunts” him with that dialogue, he’s literally just speaking facts. Reminding him that his grandfather chose love in the end over hatred - which had only ever taken and pushed others from him. In my mind, it’s essential that all 3 of the legacy characters show genuine compassion and care in order to redeem Kylo in this movie. Luke would demonstrate it first after Chewie “dies”. Then Leia shows it by reaching out to him one last time before she dies. And finally Ben is able to see his father again and admit that he was sorry and loved him all along.

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Replacing Palpatine with Snoke is not only technically impossible with the footage we have but also ruins Kylo’s agency. When he kills Snoke in TLJ that’s a big moment for him. To have Snoke come back in the next movie and for Kylo to actually listen to anything he has to say feels like active regression.

Snoke being Vitiate is fine if that works for you but nobody in the general audience knows who that is so the movie ceases to be understanble without playing a video game first. Granted, you could explain who Vitiate is for it to work without existing knowledge, it’d be clunky and still wouldn’t accomplish anything. You’re basically placing pointless fanservice directly into the plot.

We have a small time jump of some years, and the last thing we see is the two of them standing before a class of students in the New Jedi Temple on Naboo, telling them about the adventures of Luke and Anakin Skywalker, and teaching them the importance of redemption.

Where exactly do you plan on pulling footage from for this?

The other stuff is both perfectly doable and relatively sensible so no problems there. I think the whole Anakin destroying Snoke thing is gonna feel a bit random in the moment, but I can see why if the Prophecy is important for you that’s arguably essential. Everything else is simply a matter of preference and doesn’t detract from the story.

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I think the idea behind that person’s comment was in the near future where AI video generation and augmentation is possible. Admittedly, I agree that it’s a bit early to be discussing these kinds of things. Give it another 10 years, at least lol.

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 (Edited)

Jar Jar Bricks said:

Plus, her doing such a thing would require “all the strength she has left”, meaning she’d be dead before Endor. The reason it has to be Luke is that he isn’t confined to the rules of Force projection anymore since he’s a ghost.

Hard disagree. You could always change the context of Leia’s death to be healing Ben of his wound or summoning the spirit of Han. Leia spending her lifeforce to just distract her son by saying hi has always been a disservice to her character.

JEDIT: Using the Leia dialogue from the DotF script better serves & sums up her character as a whole. I admit, doing so they way I suggested robs an easier location to place a spot for Luke to speak to Kylo. My best solution for that would be take the first time Kylo talks to Vader’s helm in TFA, reverse it, and add the cracks in his mask in with photoshop…actually, having Luke speak first would actually play better into the Leia/Kylo dialogue I currently have, since it better sets up why Kylo would even mention Luke to his mom.

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I mean, you’d just be making another hard retcon of TLJ then. Kylo says in that movie that the effort for Rey to talk to him like that would kill her. So the implication is that, no matter your strength in the Force at the moment, communicating across the galaxy will kill you. Unless you have a bond like the dyad. Or unless you instigate it between two people like Snoke does. I suppose you could make the argument that Luke could instigate it, but at that point the Force Skype memes literally write themselves. They’d all be on a Microsoft Teams call together LMAO.

Ultimately, this idea doesn’t work because it requires footage of Leia speaking on the other line to be completely seamless. The first Star Wars movie establishes that Force ghosts do not have to take a corporeal form in order to speak to people. Thus, it feels natural that Luke would do such a thing with Kylo. But with Leia, since she’s still alive, it would feel super awkward to not see what she’s up to as the conversation is unfolding. Imagine removing all visuals of Kylo speaking whenever he speaks with Rey in TLJ. It just doesn’t work.