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Unpopular opinion: I'm glad Palpatine's return wasn't set up in TLJ.

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The whole point of TLJ is, by the end of the movie, that hope has been reignited, that the First Order will be destroyed, Luke even inspires the galaxy with his return, having come to terms with his legacy.

If Palpatine had been set up in TLJ, it would take that way, that hope would all be meaningless since we would know that Palpatine is just going to come back and ruin everything.

In other words, his return is meant to come out of nowhere in TRoS.

Even then, his return was already set up in the opera scene in RotS, Anakin asks him as to whether it is possible to “learn this power” (referring to Plagueis wanting to keep himself alive), and Palpatine responds, “Not from a Jedi,” intentionally grinning at us, the audience.

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I’ll be honest with you, man, I think you’re bending over backwards a little bit to find more intent in on-the-fly story decisions than there really was. I think it is less that Palpatine’s return was meant to come out of nowhere, and more so that it just conveniently worked out that way, at best.

Also, you could say the Opera scene could retroactively set up that Palpatine had hidden knowledge of cheating death, but at the time ROTS was made, you could equally say that Palpatine was just lying to Anakin about knowing the secrets to cheating death in order to manipulate him into doing his bidding. It is just retroactive foreshadowing.

That doesn’t make it a bad thing, though. Like any potential “hints” that Vader was Luke’s father in the original Star Wars could also be called retroactive foreshadowing.

Again, I totally see your point by saying it actually works out better that Palpatine’s return is a surprise in IX. I actually think I agree with you to an extent. But I think it is wrong to say that is was meant to work out that way. Clearly is wasn’t always the plan to bring back Palpatine, so if you feel like the reveal works out better not set up in previous films, I think it is just serendipitous and convenient, rather than intentional.

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Just a point, Anakin didn’t want to keep himself alive, he wanted to keep Padmé alive.

I think it is less that Palpatine’s return was meant to come out of nowhere, and more so that it just conveniently worked out that way, at best.

You guys and I feel as though TLJ is the natural progression to the story, that it being about hope feels like it was meant to be that way.

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TestingOutTheTest said:

In other words, his return is meant to come out of nowhere in TRoS.

Nothing was meant to happen because they had no idea what they were doing. JJ himself admitted Palpatine was not the intended outcome of the Disney trilogy and they just kinda winged it.

I’m not knocking your opinion at all; if that’s what you personally want to take from it then more power to you, but you’re kind of framing your argument like it’s an actual fact when we’ve got the filmmakers themselves contradicting that.

Even then, his return was already set up in the opera scene in RotS, Anakin asks him as to whether it is possible to “learn this power” (referring to Plagueis wanting to keep himself alive), and Palpatine responds, “Not from a Jedi,” intentionally grinning at us, the audience.

And I won’t even touch that.

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Ryan-SWI said:

JJ himself admitted Palpatine was not the intended outcome of the Disney trilogy and they just kinda winged it.

He did? Then why was Kennedy saying at the convention that they “always intended Palpatine to return?”

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It is true they made everything up on the fly just like Lucas. Except Disney Lucasfilm wasn’t able to get away with it, and Lucas was.

Star Wars under Lucas one retcon after retcon.

The Saga wasn’t always the Saga of Darth Vader, it wasn’t always about father’s and sons and grandfathers, or a family soap opera. Leia wasn’t the sister and Vader wasn’t Luke’s old man. Obi Wan wasn’t a liar and so on. It wasn’t about a chosen one prophecy, a virgin birth and other such nonsense about blah, blah balance of the force.

So Rey being related to someone, then a no one, then related to someone is not that big a stretch.

I laughed when Emperor Smeagol was cut in half and did not foresee it. He was a bargain basement replacement for Palpatine anyway. I always assumed he was just a puppet and Palpatine was really the person behind the curtain pulling the strings. I never assumed he was literally Palpatine’s creature created in a cloning tube on Exegol.

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Fang Zei said:

Ryan-SWI said:

JJ himself admitted Palpatine was not the intended outcome of the Disney trilogy and they just kinda winged it.

He did? Then why was Kennedy saying at the convention that they “always intended Palpatine to return?”

Apologies, Trevorrow made the comment before the release of ROS, not JJ, my bad: “Bringing back the Emperor was an idea JJ brought to the table when he came on board. It’s honestly something I never considered. I commend him for it. This was a tough story to unlock, and he found the key.”

As for Kennedy’s contradictory comments, PR. You’re not exactly going to get up on stage and admit you winged a 4 billion dollar property. And NuLucasfilm isn’t exactly known for their great track record when it comes to being on the same page as each other.

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I agree that setting up Palpatine’s turn in TLJ would have been a bad idea. That’s why I kind of don’t think it’s a good idea to set it up in fanedits, it just undermines TLJ and barely improves TRoS.

But it’s not that it was “meant” to come out of nowhere or anything. Palpatine’s return not being set up well hurts TRoS pretty badly. Setting up Palpatine’s return in TLJ is a bad idea, having Palpatine return without a setup is a bad idea, therefore having Palpatine return at all is a bad idea. Although there are plenty of other reasons why Palpatine’s return was a bad idea.

Death of the Author

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Who’s been saying Palpatine’s return should have been set up in TLJ? I thought consensus was just that his reveal in TROS was poorly executed, rushed but only for the movie not the trilogy.

“The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force.” - DV

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Yeah as time goes on I’m leaning on the idea of not wanting Palpatine in TLJ. TLJ leans heavily on its themes and while it is a sequel it kind of stands on it’s own and works like a character deconstruction

I would like to add some subtle things into TFA to hint at Palpatine though.

What, no Turkey?!

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Your idea for TFA would still undermine TLJ’s idea of hope, because by TLJ it’d still be implied some other threat exists.

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TestingOutTheTest said:

Your idea for TFA would still undermine TLJ’s idea of hope, because by TLJ it’d still be implied some other threat exists.

Yeah you are completely right I just wish General Enric Pryde from TROS was in it. That would be my only wish for the movie.

What, no Turkey?!

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TestingOutTheTest said:

Your idea for TFA would still undermine TLJ’s idea of hope, because by TLJ it’d still be implied some other threat exists.

I saw an idea in some thread on this site about implying Starkiller Base was involved with bringing back Palpatine. I wasn’t a fan of their idea on how that worked, but it kills two birds with one stone: Replaces its original (dumb) functionality in TFA, and sets up Palpatine, all without killing the third bird by undermining TLJ.

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