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Unorthodox Star Wars Beliefs

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Recently, I posted my belief that, regardless of hints given in the movie, See Threepio was not mindwiped at any time after his reconstruction by Anakin. I have many more unorthodox Star Wars beliefs, and I will share my heresy with you.

The Prophecy of the Chosen One meant that the Lightsiders (Jedi) and Darksiders (Sith) would be brought into approximate numerical parity, or that a long period of Lightsider dominion would be supplanted by Darksider dominion, which averages out to balance over time. The Jedi Council did not understand this; they thought that "balance" meant the destruction of their enemies. Of the Councilors, only Yoda began to understand the truth in Revenge of the Sith ("A prophecy that misread might have been"). But there was one other Jedi who understood the truth.

Qui-Gon Jinn knew what "balance" entailed. He campaigned for Anakin's training, knowing full well that Anakin would, in all likelihood, kill all his friends and coworkers. Why would he do this? Perhaps he knew more about the Prophecy and the eschatology surrounding it than we do. Perhaps he was moved by the Force. Or maybe, Jinn was not so loyal to the Jedi as we have been led to believe.

The Jedi were evil and deserved to die. They had long ago given up their role as impartial guardians of peace and justice, moving their headquarters to the very capital of the Republic and acting as super-commandos for the government. They recruited young children (infants, by some accounts), initiating them into a warrior religion of asceticism, dogmatism, violence, coercion, and elitism. Personally, I found the concept of Jedi "younglings" sickening and offensive. When I saw children wielding lightsabers, I thought immediately of Palestinian children dressed as suicide bombers for their parents' zeal, and Yoda became a tiny green Hasan-i-Sabah training a junior hasshiya league. Rule by the Sith was preferable; at least Palpatine waited to recruit Anakin until the latter was old enough to shave.

After Anakin's rampage across Mustafar, the Jedi and Amidala collaborated to fake her death. Having been a principal of Naboo security for so many years, Amidala was well-versed in deception and disguise. Using some pharmacological compound, or perhaps relying on the Force prowess of her Jedi allies, Amidala entered a death-like state so convincing that it fooled even the medical droids on Polis Massa. (It is worth noting that those droids were probably not calibrated for human physiology.) It was those droids that certified Amidala's death to Republic authorities, so that she was legally "dead" when she was revived en route to her new home on Alderaan. A constructed replica, or perhaps a clone, was buried on Naboo to preserve the illusion. (This is heresy is the least supported by the published material. It's less an interpretation than outright fanfiction, but it makes the story work better for me.)

Threepio kept quiet after the destruction of the Jedi Order because he was programmed to be a valet to the rich and powerful and loyal to his Maker. Exposing any facet of Anakin's life while his Maker was still alive would be a breach of protocol, and against his programming. (Even if he was now owned by a young man with the same surname.) It was not a conscious choice that Threepio chose to make; he was a mechanism, and could not choose to act differently.

Moving on to the Expanded Universe . . .

Timothy Zahn's books are boring. Total snoozers. Not the worst I've read, but far from the best.

Kevin J. Anderson was right. The Empire would've built more superweapons. And so would the Hutts. The Soviets didn't stop after they built Tsar Bomba, and rogue states, friendly states, and terrorists seek weapons of mass destruction even today. To think that the threat of superweapons disappeared after Endor is naive.

Tales of the Jedi: Redemption was good. Probably the best in the series since Dark Lords of the Sith, and certainly the best of Anderson's solo books.

X-wing tells the true story of how the Death Star plans were intercepted and brought to the Tantive IV. Maybe Kyle Katarn had some peripheral involvement, but it was mainly the work of listening station Ax-325 in the Cron Drift and Keyan Farlander.

Maarek Stele is better than Soontir Fel. And certainly better than Wedge. The best Imperial pilot should be much better than the best Rebel pilot.

We all construct the Star Wars that we want to believe in. What are your personal heresies?
"It's the stoned movie you don't have to be stoned for." -- Tom Shales on Star Wars
Scruffy's gonna die the way he lived.
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I know I argued with you about 3PO, but I very much agree with the Jedi deserving to die thing, and I think one of Sith's good points was that it actually did show some moral ambiguity. So... really, I don't think it's heresy, but I really do agree with that. And I really like the Padme faking her death thing. That's pretty much refuted, but the story would work much better for me if it was true, so I like it.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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I too always felt that the whole balance thing was misread by the Jedi. How can you have balance of something where one is the majority and the other is at zero? That is not balance, that is domination.

I also agree with the wiping out of the Jedi Order. I didn't see them as evil, and wiping them all out seemed a bit harsh, but it was almost needed. They had become too self involved. Everything had to go through the council, there was no heart, only duty. They denied these children the chance to live with their families. Jedi were forbidden to love or marry or have children of their own. Much like the Catholic Church commanders (and they've got some problems on their hands, don't they?).

The Jedi had essentially lost their way. To quote Stephen Colbert, "They're all fact, no heart." And in the end, their narrow dogma of what is appropriate and what is not lead to their own destruction.
I just wish that the PT made this line of thinking more obvious. What a great story plot! But no...it fell through. Damn CGI-fest.
"I am altering the movies. Pray I don't alter them any further." -Darth Lucas
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I like your ideas, Scruffy. I especially like the idea that Threepio had it in his programming to keep mum on his master. That is cool. And Amidala faking her death. More believable than dying because she's heartbroken or given up the will to live. That's stupid. She's supposed to still believe in Anakin, and she would so easily let go when her children need her? Bah.
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This has got to be the most idiotic thing I've EVER read. Nothing personal Scruffy, but I think you're insane. As I've said before in a few threads on the forum, I really do not like the prequals or ROTJ. But, I have never gone to the lengths to re-interpret certain things in order to make the story of the prequals more palatable. Your "beliefs" show (at least to me) that you have crossed the line between fan & fanboy. The shame of this is that now I am compelled to show MY level of nerdity in order to set you straight.

See Threepio was not mindwiped at any time after his reconstruction by Anakin. -- YES HE WAS. It's obvious that he was. In ANH, he has NO IDEA who Obi-Wan is, although R2 is FULLY aware of who he is, where he is, and exactly how to Find him. Granted, R2 was told by Leia to find him, but how is it possible for 3P0 (if he never had a memory wipe) to get lost on Tatooine, when he was CREATED there by Anakin. NOWHERE is it stated that he was re-activated or re-constructed by Anakin. All we can assume is that Anakin found various pieces of different droids and then built 3P0 (read the Novelization of TPM for more info there).
Threepio kept quiet because he had NO MEMORY of what happened in the prequals (that is proven in Luceno's recent book Dark Lord: The Rise Of Darth Vader).

The Prophecy of the Chosen One meant that the Lightsiders (Jedi) and Darksiders (Sith) would be brought into approximate numerical parity -- Oh no. You couldn't have missed THIS point more if you & the point were moving in opposite directions. "Balance" has NOTHING to do with numbers of surviving Jedi & Sith. How ANYONE can think that is beyond me. Let me try to explain this in a "modern day" situation. (you need to be a bit open minded to get this, and I'll ASSUME that you are). In modern society, The Government is in control, and the police enforce the law. When the criminals are running the streets, and their is anarchy, things are out of balance. Now, Obviously the Senate (along with the Chancellor) are the government, the Jedi are the Police, and the Sith are the criminal element. When the Sith are in control, and dominating the galaxy, the Force is out of balance. Balance is the status quo. While it's not perfect, the criminals (arguably) are not in control. Anakin DID in fact bring balance in ROTJ by ending the reign of the Sith, and putting the Government back in charge. (Yes, I realize this is a "perfect world scenario where the government aren't corrupt).
Qui-Gon Jinn knew what "balance" entailed. Of Course he did. Qui-Gon could see that something wasn't right, and the the Sith were growing in power. Did he forsee that Anakin would give himself to the dark side and kill his friends & co-workers? Of course not! While Qui-Gon often disagreed with the Jedi Council, his loyalty to the order was NEVER in question. To suggest that Qui-Gon would make his dying request to his padawan to train someone he foresaw murdering everyone he knew is not heresy, it's just plain stupid.

The Jedi were evil and deserved to die.
-- No. The Jedi were full of themselves, and misguided, but they certainly were not evil. Keep in mind that thanks to the EU, the Jedi Order has gone through several incarnations. Each one with thier own sets of rules. The Jedi Order we see in the PT, is just the current incarnation. However, in EVER incarnation, the Jedi have ALWAYS been, "The guardians of Peace & Justice in the galaxy" or, for lack of a better term, POLICE. The job of the police is to go where the government tells them, and enforce the laws.

the Jedi and Amidala collaborated to fake her death
- Bullshit. As much as I HATE it (because it contradicts ROTJ), Padme is dead. There was no faking of her death. End of story. (Read THE DARK NEST TRILOGY to see how Luke finally finds out about his mother)

As far as your comments regarding the Expanded Universe.....

Timothy Zahn's books are boring.
-- You must have the attention span of a fly. Zahn's books were brilliant. Granted, "Survivor's Quest" is a little slow at times, but Zahn was a perfect choice to START the EU. Further more, Zahn worked VERY closely with West End Games (THE Authority at that time) to make sure there were NO lapses in continuity when he used established species, and technology. This brings me to our next point....

Kevin J. Anderson was right
-- Anderson's books were enjoyable (although Darksaber was quite lame), but he TOTALLY disregarded Zahn's attention to continuty & detail, and did whatever he wanted to when writing his books. That's why after Darksaber, Anderson was relegated to telling ANCIENT Jedi stories. Yes, TOTJ: Redemption was VERY good. That's because Anderson was in open territory. He COULDN'T fuck up anything.


X-wing tells the true story of how the Death Star plans were intercepted and brought to the Tantive IV. Maybe Kyle Katarn had some peripheral involvement, but it was mainly the work of listening station Ax-325 in the Cron Drift and Keyan Farlander.
-- The Expanded Universe tells us that the Death Star Plans were in TWO PARTS. The X-Wing game was half, and Katarn retrieved the other half. (Listen to the NPR Adaptation of ANH for a little more detail as to how the plans get transmitted to the Tantive IV)

Finally....

Who the hell is Maarek Stele? Is he a video game character? He must be, because I've read EVERY EU Novel (except Outbound Flight) and ALL of the Rouge Squadron comics, and I've never heard of him.

Scruffy, I hope I didn't offend you too much. Your beliefs are not heresy. They're just plain wrong and border on stupidity. Especially with all the "evidence" that's out there to show you how wrong you are. Keep in mind that this is NOT a personal attack. You could be a great guy. I just feel the need to point out how mistaken you really are. Granted, none of us here are very happy with the way that the Star Wars Saga has turned out. But it's crazy to see everything that's out there & still have those beliefs. Just accept what it is, and dislike it if you must. But re-interpreting things to make yourself happy makes you (and anyone else that does it) just as bad a Goerge Lucas himself for fucking things up to begin with.


(as a tiny footnote, as I'm typing this post, TNT is running the episode of ER with Ewan McGregor as the guest star)
"...all Jedi Had was a bunch of muppets." - Dante Hicks (Clerks)

Anakin was an OLD MAN when he died, therefore his ghost should be old too AND WITH EYEBROWS
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Originally posted by: Scotty Balls
This has got to be the most idiotic thing I've EVER read. Nothing personal Scruffy, but I think you're insane.

Oh, don't worry. When people throw around words like "idiotic" or "insane," I don't take it personally.

As I've said before in a few threads on the forum, I really do not like the prequals or ROTJ.

It's spelled "prequel," you insane idiot.

See Threepio was not mindwiped at any time after his reconstruction by Anakin. -- YES HE WAS. It's obvious that he was.

I'm going to take the word of Curtis Saxton, published Star Wars author, over the word of the word of Scotty Balls, insane idiot. Things like this are only "obvious" if you look at them in the most superficial manner. Trained thinkers (e.g. astrophysicists) will look beyond the "obvious" and discern what is necessarily true, what may be true, and what is necessarily not true, then make only those claims which are justifiable, qualifying them according to their support. But why am I going to trust a published author with a PhD when I have Scotty Balls proving his "nerdity" to me by citing the "prequals?" I wonder.

In ANH, he has NO IDEA who Obi-Wan is, although R2 is FULLY aware of who he is, where he is, and exactly how to Find him. Granted, R2 was told by Leia to find him, but how is it possible for 3P0 (if he never had a memory wipe) to get lost on Tatooine, when he was CREATED there by Anakin.

Listen, you insane idiot. Tatooine is a PLANET.

You got that?

A PLANET.

If you think a machine programmed for etiquette and protocol is somehow going to contain the maps and glopal positioning devices to perform land navigation in the middle of a desert, two decades after it left said planet, you're insane.

"But he was built there, abuh, abuh." Drop yourself off in the middle of the Kalahari and find the nearest settlement. You were built on Earth, weren't you? It should be a piece of cake. (Better yet, don't go to the Kalahari. Have a friend drop you off in a random desert, then try to find a settlement. That more closely resembles Threepio's circumstances.)

NOWHERE is it stated that he was re-activated or re-constructed by Anakin. All we can assume is that Anakin found various pieces of different droids and then built 3P0 (read the Novelization of TPM for more info there).

So it is your contention that, instead of reactivating Threepio, Anakin fabricated the consciosness-bearing computer himself? Perhaps in Watto's chip fab plant? Damn, that's one smart kid. Or you're an insane idiot.

Threepio kept quiet because he had NO MEMORY of what happened in the prequals (that is proven in Luceno's recent book Dark Lord: The Rise Of Darth Vader).

I've already noted that Lucerno holds the minority interpretation, on this as he does on the RotS battlestation.

Oh no. You couldn't have missed THIS point more if you & the point were moving in opposite directions. "Balance" has NOTHING to do with numbers of surviving Jedi & Sith. How ANYONE can think that is beyond me. Let me try to explain this in a "modern day" situation. (you need to be a bit open minded to get this, and I'll ASSUME that you are). In modern society, The Government is in control, and the police enforce the law.

In my society, the people are in control, and the Government only exists at our pleasure. But I should've known an insane idiot like you would also be a statist.

As for how I got this idea, it was foreshadowed quite clearly in Episode I, and many people saw it. Your interpretation assigns a non-obvious meaning to balance, i.e. balance is what is good for the Jedi and imbalance is what is bad for the Jedi. Or, as you said, balance is the status quo. (Demonstrably false; if the status quo were balance, then the Jedi would have no interest in a prophecy to bring balance to the force.) We've seen no evidence that the Force has enough sentience to make moral distinctions between two violent, fanatical cults.

No. The Jedi were full of themselves, and misguided, but they certainly were not evil.

If you think the Jedi way is so good, I expect you to donate your infant children to a violent, fanatical cult that will train them to bear arms and hold fast to an ascetic religion. There are any number of nationalist or Salafist organizations in the Middle-east that will be happy to receive your child, as well as less prestigious organizations throughout the world with any number of ideologies. That way, your child will be raised to be an insane idiot, and can die on a damn fool idealistic crusade.

The job of the police is to go where the government tells them, and enforce the laws.

The job of the police is also to recruit potential members of majority age, of their own free will. The Jedi don't do that. (I note that the Jedi also do not obey the same laws you claim they are there to protect.) I really fail to see how anyone, other than an insane idiot, could draw parallels between heavily armed monks that wield practically Praetorian power, and a legally constituted and managed police organization.

the Jedi and Amidala collaborated to fake her death - Bullshit.

Actually, I used the word "fanfiction," but "bullshit" works just as well, I guess, as a description of something that is "not true." It's not as precise, but not everyone got scopes when they were handing out the language rifles.

As much as I HATE it (because it contradicts ROTJ), Padme is dead. There was no faking of her death. End of story. (Read THE DARK NEST TRILOGY to see how Luke finally finds out about his mother)


So the Dark Nest Trilogy is higher canon than Return of the Jedi, now? I guess I don't see why not; RotJ has been through so many revisions by now it's not dependable as canon. We should probably throw out ANH, too. I mean, it might contradict something in the New Essential Compendium of Cross-indexed Facts and Figures or something.

I try to reconcile everything, placing favor in what the films explicitly portray (not what they imply, hint, or circumlocute about) first, secondly in the majority text. You are free to stick with the latest and greatest "new light," if you want -- but if you take that radical position, get ready to snatch at and defend every little blip in the canon that comes along. (I invite you to lecture me on how the Republican clone army was only 3.2 million strong, "proven" by SW Insider. You are encouraged to compare the size of the Clone Army to published estimates of the Droid Army size, and the size of the PRC Army.)

You must have the attention span of a fly.


I've put up with you so far.

Zahn's books were brilliant.


Why?

Further more, Zahn worked VERY closely with West End Games (THE Authority at that time) to make sure there were NO lapses in continuity when he used established species, and technology. This brings me to our next point....


If WEG was "THE Authority," why did they so often go out of their way to thank employees of Lucasfilm, Lucasarts, etc, for their "knowledge, assistance," etc? If anyone but Lucas was "THE Authority" at the time, it was probably L.A. Wilson.

Anderson's books were enjoyable


*cough* No comment.

The Expanded Universe tells us that the Death Star Plans were in TWO PARTS.


Yes, thank you, I said that.

The X-Wing game was half, and Katarn retrieved the other half. (Listen to the NPR Adaptation of ANH for a little more detail as to how the plans get transmitted to the Tantive IV)


I did, many years ago. I don't recall Katarn being a major player.

Who the hell is Maarek Stele? Is he a video game character? He must be, because I've read EVERY EU Novel (except Outbound Flight) and ALL of the Rouge Squadron comics, and I've never heard of him.


Well, whoop-dee-sith, good for you. Now, go do your homework and look him up on Wookieepedia or Domus Publica. An Eighth Level Fan, Order of Unsurpassed Nerdity (Three Oak Clusters) like yourself should have already done that.

Scruffy, I hope I didn't offend you too much.


Don't worry about it. I deal with idiots all the time; I'm used to their ... extravagances.

But re-interpreting things to make yourself happy makes you (and anyone else that does it) just as bad a Goerge Lucas himself for fucking things up to begin with.


Er, no. George Lucas is denying people a quality transfer of the O-OT. I am not. I am constructing an imaginary experience based mostly on the published Star Wars universe. So are you; you're just so enthralled by the series of mediocre writers that Lucasfilm hires that you deny you have any part in the creative process. But I bet you do. I bet text evokes images and sound in your imagination, you have some biases that affect your perception of the text, and you even consciously select some texts to favor, some to ignore, and make up bridges to connect disparate "facts" in the text. That's what I do; I'm just more conscious, rigorous, and systematic about it. The result is a universe that stands up to more scrutiny, is personally tailored, and, frankly, is cooler than yours.
"It's the stoned movie you don't have to be stoned for." -- Tom Shales on Star Wars
Scruffy's gonna die the way he lived.
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Great topic. I love alternative theories about the Star Wars universe.

I have believed since Phantom Menace that "balance" meant the destruction of the Jedi. Knowing what Anakin would eventually become and what he'd do to the Jedi order made it seem pretty clear to me that his job as the chosen one--bringing balance--was not about extending the influence of the Jedi Order throughout the galaxy.

Yoda mentions the growing arrogance of the Jedi in AOTC. That's the first clue. Hearing Yoda suggest the prophecy may have been misread was the clincher.

After AOTC and ROTS, my view of the noble Jedi Order was completely turned on its head. They were arrogant and exerted way too much influence on those around them, poking their fingers in every pie and manipulating political situations as they saw fit. And I do believe this was intentional on the part of Lucas.

If Anakin was indeed conceived by the Force (ignoring the theory he was conceived by Palpatine), then it's reasonable to assume that his actions were driven by the Force and his ultimate purpose was the will of the Force. As Scruffy said, the Force doesn't obey the artificial morals set forth by humans. The Force's natural state is a state of balance, and if it's out of balance, it corrects itself through whatever events are necessary.
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Wow what a mixed bag of a thread. On one hand I'm incredibly impressed with the length and breadth of the posts in this thread. On the other hand it has become more of an intelligent 'you suck, no YOU suck' back and forth than an actual discussion of the ideas brought up.

Please keep in mind folks that opinions, like they say... well you know- we all have them.

As for the ideas themselves there could be some overthinking going on here. After all SW *is* just fiction, a fiction initially created by one man but fed and grown by hundreds or thousands of others so there are bound to be almost as many interpretaions.

I think the principle of Occam's Razor is applicable here.
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I thought Scruffy's response was appropriate given the tone Scotty Balls adopted in his post.
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Scotty Balls.......you were owned/pwnd/burned/shot down/....corrected in the most stright forward. I agree with some of the theories of Scruffy's, except maybe the C-3P0 not-being wiped and parts of the Qui-Gon thing....and maybe the Padme thing.

The Force balancing thing makes too much sense that I can't imagine George Lucas just passing it up. Technically Scotty, yu POV is valid, it just unfortunatly isn't gonna be right because the other one makes sense in a much more profound sense. The Jedi are full of themselves, they get all excited over The Chosen One because they think they'll finally have full peace everywhere, and then get screwed cuz they were too narrow-minded to see otherwise. It's way more dramatic and makes the story worth trying to tell. And seeing as how it's fiction......a space opera.....it works.

As for EU:

Timothy Zahn was just OK IMO. They were kinda dry at some points but overall were good reads.

I like most of KJA books because he writes very well IMO and is a little bit more action oriented. I'm not shallow just for wanting a bunch of action but c'mon....it's Star Wars.......battles are top-notch interesting.

Never read the others.

Hey look, a bear!

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Originally posted by: Jay
I thought Scruffy's response was appropriate given the tone Scotty Balls adopted in his post.


I didn't say it *wasn't* appropriate... more just trying to head off any sort of pissing contests.

Game on!
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While some of the ideas are very interesting, I have to strongly disagree about the "balance of the force" means numerical superiority. Although there were two lightside(Yoda and Obi-Wan) and two darkside jedi(Palpatine and Vader) at the end of ROTS, They aren't equal in any way. Clearly the Sith are running things. How is it "equality" when you have sith oppressing the galaxy, enslaving entire races, building death stars, and blowing entire planets full of people away while the good side are forced to hide to keep from being killed themselves. Having the sith in charge isn't any sort of "balance". The way the prophecy was mis-read was that no one figured that the chosen one would become Vader before ending the Sith.
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I thought much along the same path for the "balance" question. It just brings so much more to the table, and is certainly hinted at with Yoda's comments in II and III. It's obvious, Scruffy, that you've put a lot of thought into some of these issues (some might say too much).
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Originally posted by: Number20
While some of the ideas are very interesting, I have to strongly disagree about the "balance of the force" means numerical superiority. Although there were two lightside(Yoda and Obi-Wan) and two darkside jedi(Palpatine and Vader) at the end of ROTS, They aren't equal in any way. Clearly the Sith are running things. How is it "equality" when you have sith oppressing the galaxy, enslaving entire races, building death stars, and blowing entire planets full of people away while the good side are forced to hide to keep from being killed themselves. Having the sith in charge isn't any sort of "balance". The way the prophecy was mis-read was that no one figured that the chosen one would become Vader before ending the Sith.


"Balance" doesn't necessarily mean equal numbers of Dark and Light. Also, since getting out of balance didn't happen overnight, there's no reason to assume getting back in balance would happen very quickly either. Perhaps it's like a pendulum. The Jedi Order was running the show for so long that maybe a long period of Sith dominance is required before the pendulum can swing back to center and true balance is restored.
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I'm pretty sure he said that "balance" was only achieved at the end of ROTJ, not ROTS, am I right?

The Sith were clearly on top of things by the conclusion of ROTS, but I believe the "balance of the Force" was manifested in Vader/Anakin himself, i.e. when Darth Vader found the Jedi Anakin Skywalker deep within himself and killed the Emperor to save his son.

The balance was achieved when the Sith were destroyed, and overthrown by Jedi who were compassionate and selfless (unlike the Jedi Order of the Old Republic, which seemed to deny themselves their "humanity", which I believe was something that Anakin struggled with).
MTFBWY. Always.

http://www.myspace.com/red_ajax
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Maybe I was "owned" or whatever. It happens to the best of us sometimes. But, I really didn't mean for my original post to sound like a personal attack against scruffy.
I'll admit that the tone of my post was a bit harsh, and I apologize for that. I'm not changing my mind regarding his ideas, but I didn't want people to think that my post was intended to be the beginning of a pissing contest.

That's about all I have to say. No hard feelings, Scruffy?

We'll just have to agree to disagree.
"...all Jedi Had was a bunch of muppets." - Dante Hicks (Clerks)

Anakin was an OLD MAN when he died, therefore his ghost should be old too AND WITH EYEBROWS
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good post man, we need more stuff like that. i like your ideas about the balance, just a little play on it, i think anakin as was meant to be a reset button for the force, if you know what i mean. like after ROTJ, all the true ideas of the sith and te Jedi were gone, only the major symbolic idologies existed, and everyone was left to start again, 1000 years of tradition was gone on both sides. that why i find the EU so interesting cause they jsut dont know whats right and whats wrong. thats one of the best things about traitor and all the NJO and post NJO books.
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i agree with scotty balls, if you think balance means 2 jedi 2 sith, or that the jedi were bad then just blame lucas again for making such a poor story. anyways i dont understand the reasoning of constructing an alternate theory about movies you hate. id have to think the movies were good to construct any kind of hidden subtext in them
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I simply don't think that Scruffy's views on the prophecy are at all unorthodox, as me and many others here have shown that we all believed the same thing. They're certainly very good ideas. I really don't think Qui-Gonn would knowingly bring a ticking time bomb into the Jedi Order, though. Of course, I could have an unorthodox belief that Qui-Gonn was simply a desert mirage constructed my Obi-Wan to relieve some of the guilt he felt for bringing Anakin around in the first place. That'd be a cool idea, I think. What if the prequels were all told from Obi-Wan's point of view? I mean, the prequels make him out to be a lot more selfless and perfect than he described himself as an old man. And a Master?! And on the Council?! Please!

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Great topic guys. I feel that 3PO is bogus all around. Those droids are cranked out on an assembly line. I can think of at least 4 times I've seen other protocal droids of that model in the PT and OT. Jinn was a radical Jedi and that's it. He was so radical that the counsil would not promote him above Jedi Knight. The phrophecy was right and not misread. Vader balanced the force by chucking Palpatine in the Death Star pit. There was a lot of choaus that led to that but it did indead bring balance. I do not agree with the Jedi being evil. The counsil was in dissare because they knew of the growing power of the Sith lord. As for EU, I don't funk with that stuff. I go by Lucas only
"All to easy"