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USA Election 2012 — Page 3

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Sadly that mentality is spreading over here.

If you pay taxes all your life and your situation changes and you draw on your national insurance it's called a 'hand-out' or 'welfare' now.

I suppose the poor created the financial crisis by making the banks feel uncomfortable about telling them they couldn't give them credit if they couldn't pay it back?

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Bingowings said:

Sadly that mentality is spreading over here.

If you pay taxes all your life and your situation changes and you draw on your national insurance it's called a 'hand-out' or 'welfare' now.

I suppose the poor created the financial crisis by making the banks feel uncomfortable about telling them they couldn't give them credit if they couldn't pay it back?

It's not just here. It's spreading all over the US.

The best countries are able to take care of those in need (INCLUDING the minority of those "abusing" the system) without complaining.

(Let me throw around a word that the right-wing uses quite often.) Anyone who disagrees with the previous statement is UNAMERICAN.

Double, triple, or even quadruple my taxes! I'll gladly pay for the USA to keep up with the other first-world countries that are leading the way.

A picture is worth a thousand words. Post 102 is worth more.

I’m late to the party, but I think this is the best song. Enjoy!

—Teams Jetrell Fo 1, Jetrell Fo 2, and Jetrell Fo 3

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 (Edited)

Also, can someone tell me if cutting taxes for big corporations will put us in the green everywhere on this chart?

A picture is worth a thousand words. Post 102 is worth more.

I’m late to the party, but I think this is the best song. Enjoy!

—Teams Jetrell Fo 1, Jetrell Fo 2, and Jetrell Fo 3

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AntcuFaalb said:

Coov said:

 

Who is going to pay for the handouts when the ones who work for a living are not there to take care of them?

Handouts for whom? Are you referring to state-provided assistance for the elderly and disabled?

You need to be more specific.

 

Elderly and disabled... yeah, those are the ones I am talking about, obviously.

I am referring to those who choose not to have to work for a living as the hard working Americans pay THEIR bills.  There are those who need government assistance, and those who take advantage and hold their hands out.

The liberal government WANTS people to rely on them.  That is where their power comes from. It went from "ask not what your country can do for you..." to quite the opposite.  

Galatians 2: 20: I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

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1990osu said:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arOGHY27JwI

See this is exactly the sort of propaganda piece a satirist would find difficult to top.

That's not even remotely the normal recipient of even the American 'welfare' system.

It doesn't even make good television and by dividing the working poor against the not working poor the rich get richer no matter what point on the economic cycle your country is on.

Anarchy is the universal political reality.

It always has been and while it may not be romantically utopian of me it probably always will be.

The powerful rule the weak are weakened.

Obama is Mitt, Mitt is Obama.

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 (Edited)

I just hope we can get some bipartisan cooperation going on so we can have a better, less polarized country for god damned once.

Keep Circulating the Tapes.

END OF LINE

(It hasn’t happened yet)

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AntcuFaalb said:

Bingowings said:

Sadly that mentality is spreading over here.

If you pay taxes all your life and your situation changes and you draw on your national insurance it's called a 'hand-out' or 'welfare' now.

I suppose the poor created the financial crisis by making the banks feel uncomfortable about telling them they couldn't give them credit if they couldn't pay it back?

It's not just here. It's spreading all over the US.

The best countries are able to take care of those in need (INCLUDING the minority of those "abusing" the system) without complaining.

(Let me throw around a word that the right-wing uses quite often.) Anyone who disagrees with the previous statement is UNAMERICAN.

Double, triple, or even quadruple my taxes! I'll gladly pay for the USA to keep up with the other first-world countries that are leading the way.

We used to be the best.  I no longer believe that.  We are turning out more like those "best" countries you are referring to.  America used to be special.  Those with your mindset has made us quite the opposite.

Galatians 2: 20: I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

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Coov said:

AntcuFaalb said:

Coov said:

 

Who is going to pay for the handouts when the ones who work for a living are not there to take care of them?

Handouts for whom? Are you referring to state-provided assistance for the elderly and disabled?

You need to be more specific.

 

Elderly and disabled... yeah, those are the ones I am talking about, obviously.

I am referring to those who choose not to have to work for a living as the hard working Americans pay THEIR bills.  There are those who need government assistance, and those who take advantage and hold their hands out.

The liberal government WANTS people to rely on them.  That is where their power comes from. It went from "ask not what your country can do for you..." to quite the opposite.  

So what perfect system do you propose?

How do you intend to continue providing assistance to the elderly and disabled without also providing assistance to the abusers?

Should we just kick them all to the curb?

A picture is worth a thousand words. Post 102 is worth more.

I’m late to the party, but I think this is the best song. Enjoy!

—Teams Jetrell Fo 1, Jetrell Fo 2, and Jetrell Fo 3

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Yes, obviously.  That is the conservative way.

Galatians 2: 20: I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

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Coov said:

We used to be the best.

When?

A picture is worth a thousand words. Post 102 is worth more.

I’m late to the party, but I think this is the best song. Enjoy!

—Teams Jetrell Fo 1, Jetrell Fo 2, and Jetrell Fo 3

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It would be cool if there was the Tax Dodging/Work Shy Lay About/Corruption party and the Proud To Pay Tax/Only Apply For What We Are Entitled To/Honest party and then you could openly vote for the bad guys instead of trying to figure out which one is telling the most lies.

At the moment it is bipartisan.

All political parties represent the powerful.

You want a bit of partisan activity in there.

Derail the gravy train.

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 (Edited)

Coov said:

Yes, obviously.  That is the conservative way.

Why don't you type a proper response instead of going the easy route? Did you even read what I wrote?

If you don't have a solution, then say so.

Edit: Shit, I'd even accept a hyperlink to a proposal.

A picture is worth a thousand words. Post 102 is worth more.

I’m late to the party, but I think this is the best song. Enjoy!

—Teams Jetrell Fo 1, Jetrell Fo 2, and Jetrell Fo 3

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 (Edited)

America was briefly the seat of Empire.

It wasted all its dough during the Cold War and by following the Corporate Consumerist dream.

If you keep borrowing money to buy all your toys from China they will get rich no matter how cheap their slave labour is.

You will become poor.

Same here.

We are at the mercy of Russia for electric power when we have about a thousand years of coal under our feet.

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AntcuFaalb said:

Coov said:

We used to be the best.

When?

The USA has ALWAYS been the best up until recently.  If you don't get that then there is no way you could possibly understand where I am coming from.

Galatians 2: 20: I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

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 (Edited)

AntcuFaalb said:

Coov said:

Yes, obviously.  That is the conservative way.

Why don't you type a proper response instead of going the easy route? Did you even read what I wrote?

If you don't have a solution, then say so.

Edit: Shit, I'd even accept a hyperlink to a proposal.

Just giving a smart ass remark from your obvious attempts to belittle what I believe.  Don't worry, I would not expect much more from the likes.

 

edit: We HAD the best system our forefathers created, not perfect mind you... That was a time where prosperity was earned and the government was used to work for the people, not the other way around.

Galatians 2: 20: I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

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Every country thinks it's not only the best but always was the best.

It's the prime delusion of nationalism.

The truth is the nation state is practically obsolete.

China will have to learn this lesson next if she doesn't want to swallowed by the Corporate sharks.

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 (Edited)

Coov said:

AntcuFaalb said:

Coov said:

We used to be the best.

When?

The USA has ALWAYS been the best up until recently.  If you don't get that then there is no way you could possibly understand where I am coming from.

Objectively, how has it been the best?

Link me to some charts, for instance, demonstrating that the US had the lowest income inequality during X-Y years.

(This was only an example, so choose any metrics you'd like, but just make sure that they support the idea of the US being "the best".)

A picture is worth a thousand words. Post 102 is worth more.

I’m late to the party, but I think this is the best song. Enjoy!

—Teams Jetrell Fo 1, Jetrell Fo 2, and Jetrell Fo 3

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 (Edited)

I think to make any progress in this discussion we have to step back and look at how America is supposed to work. 

 

We talk about the people on welfare and fearing a government that would coldly "kick them to the curb." 

But is that really the right mindset? 

 

What if people turned not to the state, but to other people to help them?  To me it's much more cynical to think that people are so cold-hearted that they must be forced to be generous through government taxes.  It represents a lack of faith in human goodness. 

Is government really the one "giving the rich a tax break" or "withholding funding for Planned Parenthood"? Is government the benevolent benefactor who hands out checks, or is it us who gives our money to the government and frankly would like some of it back to do with as we please, as a free people? 

Do you trust the goodness of government?  Or the goodness and generosity of the human heart? 

I wish that I could just wish my feelings away...but I can't.  Wishful wishing can only lead to wishes wished for in futile wishfulness, which is not what I wish to wish for. 

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I edited above...

"We HAD the best system our forefathers created, not perfect mind you... That was a time where prosperity was earned and the government was used to work for the people, not the other way around."

Galatians 2: 20: I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

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 (Edited)

Coov said:

AntcuFaalb said:

Coov said:

Yes, obviously.  That is the conservative way.

Why don't you type a proper response instead of going the easy route? Did you even read what I wrote?

If you don't have a solution, then say so.

Edit: Shit, I'd even accept a hyperlink to a proposal.

Just giving a smart ass remark from your obvious attempts to belittle what I believe.  Don't worry, I would not expect much more from the likes.

You aren't making any sense. All I was and am asking for is for you to PROPOSE A SOLUTION TO WHAT YOU'RE COMPLAINING ABOUT.

I ask again, without snark: What proposal do you have (or can link me to) that provides for those in need without helping "abusers of the system"?

A picture is worth a thousand words. Post 102 is worth more.

I’m late to the party, but I think this is the best song. Enjoy!

—Teams Jetrell Fo 1, Jetrell Fo 2, and Jetrell Fo 3

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Coov said:

I edited above...

"We HAD the best system our forefathers created, not perfect mind you... That was a time where prosperity was earned and the government was used to work for the people, not the other way around."

Yes, but this isn't a chart. I'm asking for an objective measurement (or set of measurements) that demonstrates the US as "the best" at one point in time.

There are plenty of charts demonstrating that the US is not "the best" today.

Choose any metrics you'd like, but be sure to have the data to backup your claim.

A picture is worth a thousand words. Post 102 is worth more.

I’m late to the party, but I think this is the best song. Enjoy!

—Teams Jetrell Fo 1, Jetrell Fo 2, and Jetrell Fo 3

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1990osu said:

I think to make any progress in this discussion we have to step back and look at how America is supposed to work. 

 

We talk about the people on welfare and fearing a government that would coldly "kick them to the curb." 

But is that really the right mindset? 

 

What if people turned not to the state, but to other people to help them?  To me it's much more cynical to think that people are so cold-hearted that they must be forced to be generous through government taxes.  It represents a lack of faith in human goodness. 

Is government really the one "giving the rich a tax break" or "withholding funding for Planned Parenthood"? Is government the benevolent benefactor who hands out checks, or is it us who gives our money to the government and frankly would like some of it back to do with as we please, as a free people? 

Do you trust the goodness of government?  Or the goodness and generosity of the human heart? 

It's easier to bring an malfunctioning government to book than to cover every angle with volunteers and charity.

Read Dickens.

There was a lot of charity back then and next to no state provision.

If the state does nothing it's a waste of money.

Get rid of it, pay no tax and leave more free money to donate to charity.

If you want a country based on charity have another revolution and get rid of your presidents and senators and replace them with charitable foundations and their boards of trustees.

If you want representative democracy let them organise the state to provide what you want from a state.

People are children.

They want all the toys but they also want to keep their pocket money.

You should let someone above all that control you.

Someone with a broader historical perspective.

Someone with centuries of experience of putting people in their place and shrinking the great and the good to their true stature.

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AntcuFaalb said:

I ask again, without snark: What proposal do you have (or can link me to) that provides for those in need without helping "abusers of the system"?

Because you asked without snark I will answer.. I really could not tell you.  Our system has worked so well for so long the minority of abusers were not as big an issues.  The mentality of America has changed for the worse, and once those realize they can get stuff without working for it, why work?  

Like I said... that is what the liberal government wants.  They want the people to rely on the government.  That is where the power lays.  

You will never see my side, obviously.  I can't hang out all day and do this.  I will leave by saying...  I am a Veteran and have done my time protecting this country to preserve the freedom you have to disagree with me.  This country is no longer what it once was, especially after what happened yesterday.  Frankly I don't care what your opinion is on the matter.  I hope it gets better, but seems pretty bleak now.  Congratulations on your victory.

Galatians 2: 20: I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

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I won't waste your time with any more replies, but...

I am a Veteran and have done my time protecting this country to preserve the freedom you have to disagree with me.

Thank you. We may disagree on many matters, but I do appreciate and respect your service to our country.

Congratulations on your victory.

It's not my victory. Furthermore, I didn't vote for Barack Obama. I voted for Gary Johnson.

A picture is worth a thousand words. Post 102 is worth more.

I’m late to the party, but I think this is the best song. Enjoy!

—Teams Jetrell Fo 1, Jetrell Fo 2, and Jetrell Fo 3