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“What Orwell feared were those who would ban books. What Huxley feared was that there would be no reason to ban a book, for there would be no one who wanted to read one.”
Neil Postman, Amusing Ourselves to Death
This guy will not be buying the DVDs — Page 6
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Originally posted by: Mike O
And the people who gave him millions of dollars to that he could even make the SEs? What about us? The fans? The ones who make the sequels, the prequels, the SEs, and everything else related to SW even possible? A restoration could be performed. Millions of people want it. There is a simple way to meet in the middle here. Release a proper restoration of the OOT. I'll buy it, and so will countless others. Then I have what I want, and Lucas can do whatever he wants to the SEs and the PT. (I don't hate them. Quite the contrary). Everybody's happy. Only Lucas won't do it. Robert A. Harris, the film restoration expert who restored Lawrence of Arabia and Vertigo, among others, volunteered, and Lucas wouldn't let him. Lucas just doesn't want to do this. I'm not bashing the guy or anything. I'm just stating a fact. And that, to my mind, after I've spent tons of money on his products, is insulting.
I am fully behind getting a new anamorphic transfer of the O-OT. I always felt it was a little selfish of Lucas to just sweep the O-OT under the rug the way he has. If it's just a matter of spending a little more to make it happen, then I agree Lucas should do that out of respect for the fans who really got behind these movies when they were first released.And the people who gave him millions of dollars to that he could even make the SEs? What about us? The fans? The ones who make the sequels, the prequels, the SEs, and everything else related to SW even possible? A restoration could be performed. Millions of people want it. There is a simple way to meet in the middle here. Release a proper restoration of the OOT. I'll buy it, and so will countless others. Then I have what I want, and Lucas can do whatever he wants to the SEs and the PT. (I don't hate them. Quite the contrary). Everybody's happy. Only Lucas won't do it. Robert A. Harris, the film restoration expert who restored Lawrence of Arabia and Vertigo, among others, volunteered, and Lucas wouldn't let him. Lucas just doesn't want to do this. I'm not bashing the guy or anything. I'm just stating a fact. And that, to my mind, after I've spent tons of money on his products, is insulting.
On the other hand, try to see it from his perspective. He was the one who put everything on the line to make the O-OT in the first place. Mortgaging his property, waiving his directorial fees, working himself into a nervous breakdown in an attempt to make the original Star Wars. The money we gave him for bringing ANH to the world wasn't really spent on the sequels, it was spent on the original film. He then took the money he made from that (the really freaking hard way) and put all of it back into ESB and his companies that helped him make it. When we bought into that movie, we weren't giving Lucas money to make ROTJ, we were giving him his invested money back plus profit because he gave us ESB. And so on and so forth. It seems to me like with each film in this series, Lucas brought the film to the table first, and we in turn rewarded him with our money and support. So it's not like he was ever really operating at a deficet with us.
Add to that the fact that not everyone who wasn't impressed with the SE/Prequels (the people who would want the O-OT on DVD the most) has been very polite about expressing themselves about it, and I don't think it's really that hard to understand his hesitation to spend more money on a group of people who tend to put him down all the time. To him, the money we spent in the past was for stuff he already gave us in the past.
While I think it would be nicer of him to come up with the new transfer, I really don't think he owes us that.
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Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
On the other hand, try to see it from his perspective. He was the one who put everything on the line to make the O-OT in the first place. Mortgaging his property, waiving his directorial fees, working himself into a nervous breakdown in an attempt to make the original Star Wars. The money we gave him for bringing ANH to the world wasn't really spent on the sequels, it was spent on the original film. He then took the money he made from that (the really freaking hard way) and put all of it back into ESB and his companies that helped him make it. When we bought into that movie, we weren't giving Lucas money to make ROTJ, we were giving him his invested money back plus profit because he gave us ESB. And so on and so forth. It seems to me like with each film in this series, Lucas brought the film to the table first, and we in turn rewarded him with our money and support. So it's not like he was ever really operating at a deficet with us.
On the other hand, try to see it from his perspective. He was the one who put everything on the line to make the O-OT in the first place. Mortgaging his property, waiving his directorial fees, working himself into a nervous breakdown in an attempt to make the original Star Wars. The money we gave him for bringing ANH to the world wasn't really spent on the sequels, it was spent on the original film. He then took the money he made from that (the really freaking hard way) and put all of it back into ESB and his companies that helped him make it. When we bought into that movie, we weren't giving Lucas money to make ROTJ, we were giving him his invested money back plus profit because he gave us ESB. And so on and so forth. It seems to me like with each film in this series, Lucas brought the film to the table first, and we in turn rewarded him with our money and support. So it's not like he was ever really operating at a deficet with us.
I am a huge supporter of property rights and I don't fault George Lucas on any legal basis. My argument centers on respecting art from an ethical standpoint. His property rights do not give him the moral right to overlook the millions of fans who enjoyed the original versions of his films. Nor do his property rights give him the moral right to erase a lot of the beautiful work performed by other people to help create the original version of his films. His behavior is irrational and wrong.
"Now all Lucas has to do is make a cgi version of himself. It will be better than the original and fit his original vision." - skyjedi2005
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Was it wrong when he re-dubbed Beru's voice? What if he had redubbed her voice before he released the film, would that make a difference?
My point here is that there were a lot of people who worked on a lot of stuff to bring these movies into reality. Along the way some of the stuff they came up with was discarded for various reasons (like the Luke/Friends on Tatooine scene for example).
Stuff like that happens all the time, to good honest artistic work in the process of making a movie. These artists were paid by Lucas, and that's why he gets to use what he wants and discard the rest for his final cut.
I see the point about the historic nature of these films and if it's really just a matter of pushing a button to make an anamorphic transfer happen, then I agree it would be selfish of him not to.
I'm just not ready to buy into the idea that he's lying about how difficult that would be.
I see people's points about potential motivation for lying here, but I think if he were really that adamant about it, he just wouldn't have released the O-OT again at all.
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Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
Well I think it's a little self centered. But wrong?
Was it wrong when he re-dubbed Beru's voice? What if he had redubbed her voice before he released the film, would that make a difference?
My point here is that there were a lot of people who worked on a lot of stuff to bring these movies into reality. Along the way some of the stuff they came up with was discarded for various reasons (like the Luke/Friends on Tatooine scene for example).
Stuff like that happens all the time, to good honest artistic work in the process of making a movie. These artists were paid by Lucas, and that's why he gets to use what he wants and discard the rest for his final cut.
Well I think it's a little self centered. But wrong?
Was it wrong when he re-dubbed Beru's voice? What if he had redubbed her voice before he released the film, would that make a difference?
My point here is that there were a lot of people who worked on a lot of stuff to bring these movies into reality. Along the way some of the stuff they came up with was discarded for various reasons (like the Luke/Friends on Tatooine scene for example).
Stuff like that happens all the time, to good honest artistic work in the process of making a movie. These artists were paid by Lucas, and that's why he gets to use what he wants and discard the rest for his final cut.
A very true point. But firstly, choosing one artistic direction over another should not be the same as totally trashing the neglected work. This is even more true when the neglected work of art is something very redeemable. It's sad to see something beautiful destroyed when people could preserve it. Preservation should not only be about history but beauty as well. Secondly, the more a work of art is experienced and loved by the world, the more that piece of art is no longer just a work of its creator but something more meaningful. The more meaningful a work of art is to the world, the more respect it should be given.
"Now all Lucas has to do is make a cgi version of himself. It will be better than the original and fit his original vision." - skyjedi2005
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I have heard from a lot of people who say they know for sure he's lying and has all these pristine copies of the saga just laying around in his basement, but it seems like a whole lot of assumption to me.
I really think this is one case where the "dog ate my homework" isn't just a huge lie.
I think that's part of the reason he didn't originally entertain the idea of O-OT on DVD, because he knew the best he could do (without hiring Nasa to ressurect the original picture quality of the film from a bunch of worn out prints), was to use one of the previous home video release masters as he has. I don't think he wanted to put out a DVD with a movie on it that wasn't Anamorphic in this day and age. I could just picture Jim Ward begging him to just let them do it, and Lucas saying: I don't think they'd want what I can give them".
Now if it's really not a big deal, if there really is a print laying around that he could send to a lab for a day and be done with it, then I think it would be in poor taste for him to not do that.
Is there anything beyond speculation (or anonomous people who conveninently happen to know for a fact but can't reveal how they got the info without occupational rammifications), to say he's really lying about all of this?
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My grandfather is really into Charlie Chaplin, and tons of other silent films. After some remastering and hard work, they can get the most horrible tape back in shape. He watched the originals when they first came out, and he has told me most of them have been remastered to way better quality than when they were first released.
And, just FYI, there are temperature/humidity/everything controlled film vaults out there where these original prints are stored. For some reason I doubt that Lucas would just toss the original film it in his closet under a bunch of props, and let them get moldy and used up. Something tells me that he wouldn't burn the original film after remastering it for 'version 3' of star wars though. He just wants "his vision" to survive, which wasn't the original he made.
Oh well. The comic book guy on the simpsons isn't getting any sleep tonight.
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Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
On the other hand, try to see it from his perspective. He was the one who put everything on the line to make the O-OT in the first place. Mortgaging his property, waiving his directorial fees, working himself into a nervous breakdown in an attempt to make the original Star Wars. The money we gave him for bringing ANH to the world wasn't really spent on the sequels, it was spent on the original film. He then took the money he made from that (the really freaking hard way) and put all of it back into ESB and his companies that helped him make it. When we bought into that movie, we weren't giving Lucas money to make ROTJ, we were giving him his invested money back plus profit because he gave us ESB. And so on and so forth. It seems to me like with each film in this series, Lucas brought the film to the table first, and we in turn rewarded him with our money and support. So it's not like he was ever really operating at a deficet with us.
Add to that the fact that not everyone who wasn't impressed with the SE/Prequels (the people who would want the O-OT on DVD the most) has been very polite about expressing themselves about it, and I don't think it's really that hard to understand his hesitation to spend more money on a group of people who tend to put him down all the time. To him, the money we spent in the past was for stuff he already gave us in the past.
While I think it would be nicer of him to come up with the new transfer, I really don't think he owes us that.
Originally posted by: Mike O
And the people who gave him millions of dollars to that he could even make the SEs? What about us? The fans? The ones who make the sequels, the prequels, the SEs, and everything else related to SW even possible? A restoration could be performed. Millions of people want it. There is a simple way to meet in the middle here. Release a proper restoration of the OOT. I'll buy it, and so will countless others. Then I have what I want, and Lucas can do whatever he wants to the SEs and the PT. (I don't hate them. Quite the contrary). Everybody's happy. Only Lucas won't do it. Robert A. Harris, the film restoration expert who restored Lawrence of Arabia and Vertigo, among others, volunteered, and Lucas wouldn't let him. Lucas just doesn't want to do this. I'm not bashing the guy or anything. I'm just stating a fact. And that, to my mind, after I've spent tons of money on his products, is insulting.
I am fully behind getting a new anamorphic transfer of the O-OT. I always felt it was a little selfish of Lucas to just sweep the O-OT under the rug the way he has. If it's just a matter of spending a little more to make it happen, then I agree Lucas should do that out of respect for the fans who really got behind these movies when they were first released.And the people who gave him millions of dollars to that he could even make the SEs? What about us? The fans? The ones who make the sequels, the prequels, the SEs, and everything else related to SW even possible? A restoration could be performed. Millions of people want it. There is a simple way to meet in the middle here. Release a proper restoration of the OOT. I'll buy it, and so will countless others. Then I have what I want, and Lucas can do whatever he wants to the SEs and the PT. (I don't hate them. Quite the contrary). Everybody's happy. Only Lucas won't do it. Robert A. Harris, the film restoration expert who restored Lawrence of Arabia and Vertigo, among others, volunteered, and Lucas wouldn't let him. Lucas just doesn't want to do this. I'm not bashing the guy or anything. I'm just stating a fact. And that, to my mind, after I've spent tons of money on his products, is insulting.
On the other hand, try to see it from his perspective. He was the one who put everything on the line to make the O-OT in the first place. Mortgaging his property, waiving his directorial fees, working himself into a nervous breakdown in an attempt to make the original Star Wars. The money we gave him for bringing ANH to the world wasn't really spent on the sequels, it was spent on the original film. He then took the money he made from that (the really freaking hard way) and put all of it back into ESB and his companies that helped him make it. When we bought into that movie, we weren't giving Lucas money to make ROTJ, we were giving him his invested money back plus profit because he gave us ESB. And so on and so forth. It seems to me like with each film in this series, Lucas brought the film to the table first, and we in turn rewarded him with our money and support. So it's not like he was ever really operating at a deficet with us.
Add to that the fact that not everyone who wasn't impressed with the SE/Prequels (the people who would want the O-OT on DVD the most) has been very polite about expressing themselves about it, and I don't think it's really that hard to understand his hesitation to spend more money on a group of people who tend to put him down all the time. To him, the money we spent in the past was for stuff he already gave us in the past.
While I think it would be nicer of him to come up with the new transfer, I really don't think he owes us that.
As we're the reason he's a multi-millionare and the reason that ESB, ROTJ, the PT, and the SEs exist, I do think that he owes it to us. I don't entirely understand why he feels the way that he does, but I certainly respect it. To me it is a case of the restored OOT. I want that. Once I have that, I will watch that and be happy, and he can do whatever he wants with the SEs and the PT. I certainly bear the man no ill will. I wish him a long, happy, healthy life. But there is currently no restored and remastered OOT available, which means that it's difficult to agree to disagree. Lucas doesn't want people to prefer the OOT. Many people do.
“What Orwell feared were those who would ban books. What Huxley feared was that there would be no reason to ban a book, for there would be no one who wanted to read one.”
Neil Postman, Amusing Ourselves to Death
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I think he should be grateful for the support, but it's not like we were buying stock in Lucasfilm. A lot of us who would want him to put more effort into a DVD transfer of the O-OT are by and large the same people who curse Lucas and his vision constantly. At a certain point I can see how his sense of gratitute could have been eroded over time.
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Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
The way I see it -Lucas- is the reason he's a multi millionaire. We didn't ask Lucas to come up with Star Wars, he created that on his own initiative, against staggering opposition from people who couldn't see his vision back then. In return for giving us Star Wars, we bought into it. He invested his time and money, and turned a legimate profit.
I think he should be grateful for the support, but it's not like we were buying stock in Lucasfilm. A lot of us who would want him to put more effort into a DVD transfer of the O-OT are by and large the same people who curse Lucas and his vision constantly. At a certain point I can see how his sense of gratitute could have been eroded over time.
The way I see it -Lucas- is the reason he's a multi millionaire. We didn't ask Lucas to come up with Star Wars, he created that on his own initiative, against staggering opposition from people who couldn't see his vision back then. In return for giving us Star Wars, we bought into it. He invested his time and money, and turned a legimate profit.
I think he should be grateful for the support, but it's not like we were buying stock in Lucasfilm. A lot of us who would want him to put more effort into a DVD transfer of the O-OT are by and large the same people who curse Lucas and his vision constantly. At a certain point I can see how his sense of gratitute could have been eroded over time.
But I think the logic is a little flawed here because he DOESN'T put out a quality product! He even screwed over fans of the SE with wrong light saber colors, missing/muffled sounds and music, etc. Instead of owning up to it and fixing it, he and the company take the stance that this was intended and "creative decisions". Lucas/LFL are sloppy, put out crappy products and THAT is what people are mad about. Name one other person that treats his/her fans the way Lucas does...you'd be hard-pressed to find one...
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However, I'm certain that LFL has enough materials at its disposal that they could make a pristine hi-res video edition of the OUT, albeit with the investment of some time and cost, which could easily be recouped on the disc sales. The only thing that is lacking is the will to do it.
Now Jim Ward (or whoever) has talked Lucas into releasing these, against his will. Lucas has said "now we'll see which versions the fans really want" (or whatever). They are selling well, LFL will make a lot of money and Jim Ward (or whoever) will probably press for a better release in future, and Lucas may agree. Whatever way you look at it, the OUT release is a positive step for OUT fans - we're certainly better off than we were before these came out.
The issue of "owing" doesn't come into it. The films should, of course, be preserved as well as possible from a historical perspective.
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Originally posted by: THX
I am not one of the people who insists on claiming that Lucas has 4k scans sitting around that he is deliberately withholding. I'm pretty sure the O-neg was pulled apart for the SE and that a new anamorphic edition isn't just as easy as pressing a button.
However, I'm certain that LFL has enough materials at its disposal that they could make a pristine hi-res video edition of the OUT, albeit with the investment of some time and cost, which could easily be recouped on the disc sales. The only thing that is lacking is the will to do it.
Now Jim Ward (or whoever) has talked Lucas into releasing these, against his will. Lucas has said "now we'll see which versions the fans really want" (or whatever). They are selling well, LFL will make a lot of money and Jim Ward (or whoever) will probably press for a better release in future, and Lucas may agree. Whatever way you look at it, the OUT release is a positive step for OUT fans - we're certainly better off than we were before these came out.
The issue of "owing" doesn't come into it. The films should, of course, be preserved as well as possible from a historical perspective.
I am not one of the people who insists on claiming that Lucas has 4k scans sitting around that he is deliberately withholding. I'm pretty sure the O-neg was pulled apart for the SE and that a new anamorphic edition isn't just as easy as pressing a button.
However, I'm certain that LFL has enough materials at its disposal that they could make a pristine hi-res video edition of the OUT, albeit with the investment of some time and cost, which could easily be recouped on the disc sales. The only thing that is lacking is the will to do it.
Now Jim Ward (or whoever) has talked Lucas into releasing these, against his will. Lucas has said "now we'll see which versions the fans really want" (or whatever). They are selling well, LFL will make a lot of money and Jim Ward (or whoever) will probably press for a better release in future, and Lucas may agree. Whatever way you look at it, the OUT release is a positive step for OUT fans - we're certainly better off than we were before these came out.
The issue of "owing" doesn't come into it. The films should, of course, be preserved as well as possible from a historical perspective.
Excellent points.
“What Orwell feared were those who would ban books. What Huxley feared was that there would be no reason to ban a book, for there would be no one who wanted to read one.”
Neil Postman, Amusing Ourselves to Death