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Innocent contractors died while constructing the second Death Star
Innocent contractors died while constructing the second Death Star
One thing I hate, a minor thing, is that that Luke and Vader never swap lightsabers during their duel in ROTJ.
Gods for some, miniature libertarian socialist flags for others.
The one thing I probably dislike about Empire is how it makes the dark side and the good side more binary than it had to be. Makes sense in the end but Vader himself calling his side the “dark” one is so taken for granted nowadays but it didn’t have to be that way. He could still think he was in the right. In fact, stuff like ROTS would be far more believable. “I do not fear the dark side as you do.” My guy it’s called the dark side, you should be skeptical of it to a degree, no?
Dark =/= evil.
“The Tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao. The name that can be named is not the eternal name. The nameless is the beginning of heaven and earth. The named is the mother of ten thousand things. Ever desireless, one can see the mystery. Ever desiring, one can see the manifestations. These two spring from the same source but differ in name; this appears as darkness. Darkness within darkness. The gate to all mystery.”
— Lao Tzu
Gods for some, miniature libertarian socialist flags for others.
One thing I hate, a minor thing, is that that Luke and Vader never swap lightsabers during their duel in ROTJ.
This is something I would like to do in an eventual ROTJ edit!
And I agree with you about the dark side thing. I definitely think the out-of-universe names derive from it simply being the good side and bad side, but I like to interpret the in-universe naming of the “dark side” as referring to the mystery and unknown aspects of the Force that the Jedi deem too dangerous to tap into. It’s a deep, dark well of knowledge that could hide unimaginable secrets.
I think Palpatine hints at this by referring to the “great mystery”, and wanting to understand all its aspects, but I think it would’ve helped get that idea across even better if Palpatine had maybe used a clearer allegory.
The ‘other’ hope not being a new character is a bummer. There is a general feeling of running out of steam in ROTJ, evident in a few areas. One not mentioned yet is that the locations aren’t as imaginative or distinctive as they could be. A lot of revisited places, and the main new planet is just the woods. Still a lot to like in Jedi but it was a step down in many respects.
The irony is they made cuts to not make huge sets except for the Sail Barge and to do mostly a US shoot for locations and it still went over budget. So reducing it to one death star instead of two, removing Had Addadon and the Wookiee Planet didn’t prevent it from going over. Though the original budget if it had been filmed as is Revenge of the Jedi would have cost like 50 million. Howard Kazanjian got it down to 32.5 million and Lucas was still unhappy.
Part of the reason of Lucas wanting to push digital cinema and cgi was to bring the costs down. He would have shot Jedi like he did Episode II and III if the technology had been available. Or rather he would have had Richard Marquand do so.
Even by the time Menace happened he didn’t have the tech ready.
I dont like the Emperor is a Force user i like Force users being rare also Palpatine do so little in the OT that make him a Non Force user would affect nothing to his character in the OT yes he tortures Luke in the last minutes of the final movie of the trilogy but Palpatine was mostly a Cameo and he is more important for the Prequels and Sequels movies than the OT
I dont like the Emperor is a Force user i like Force users being rare also Palpatine do so little in the OT that make him a Non Force user would affect nothing to his character in the OT yes he tortures Luke in the last minutes of the final movie of the trilogy but Palpatine was mostly a Cameo and he is more important for the Prequels and Sequels movies than the OT
Plus is ties the war conflict and the force conflict too closely together. Now all the heroes have to do to solve all their problems is kill this one person. Makes the universe too small when you have a singular puppet master pulling ALL the strings like that.
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Interesting how a fair number of people see Vader being Luke’s father as, perhaps, not a great idea. Far fewer people thought this in the last century I would bet.
Well look what it led to:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=R4wOzbqgfIY
And that’s not even factoring in the ST…
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The only thing I really dislike that I can think of right now is in Jedi, and it’s not even what most people have issues with. (I’m fine with ewoks) I really wish Luke were more angry with Ben when they’re having their talk on Dagobah. He’s like, “you told me Darth Vader murdered my father” but he doesn’t sound very angry, the whole scene is too monotone, the only scene in the originals that reminds me of the prequels. I wish he’d act in a way more akin to how he is on the Falcon at the end of Empire. (when he’s crying, "why didn’t you tell me?)
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Yoda can’t help the Rebels because he’s old and he’s basically just a teacher, not a warrior. The Prequels messed this up by portraying Yoda as a warrior.
As for stuff in the OT I don’t like:
Well, ANH and ESB are probably my favorite movies of all time - but they’re not perfect. ANH in particular has a lot of problems, which is understandable because it was the first movie, and a lot of “Star Wars lore” hadn’t yet been established. But I have to admit, the entire ending to ANH barely makes any sense:
That last point is likely partially a result of ANH being the first movie. With only ANH in mind, we can perhaps infer that the Rebels didn’t evacuate Yavin IV because they figured it would take weeks or months for the nearest Star Destroyer to arrive at Yavin. (Later movies made this an impossible option, as hyperspace travel seems to take only a few hours most of the time - perhaps a few days at most.)
These issues with the Death Star assault likely occurred because originally, the ending to ANH was written without any “ticking clock” countdown as the Death Star comes into firing range of Yavin IV. Originally, the Death Star didn’t come to Yavin at all. Rather, the Rebels just someone know where the Death Star is (I guess it was still parked at Alderaan), and after discovering the weakness they fly X-wing squadrons to the Death Star. I think Marcia Lucas suggested that the Death Star should actually show up at Yavin, which introduces a much-needed “ticking clock”, so the Rebels have limited time and a dramatic count-down before the Death Star blows up Yavin. But unfortunately, this introduces the side problem that it makes Leia look incredibly reckless. I thought of a solution to this once that probably makes everything work, providing both the ticking clock and not making Leia look crazy - but I wouldn’t bother trying to implement a fan-edit because most people don’t have any problems with the ending to ANH.
- Even if this was supposed to be some insane strategic gamble on Leia’s part, they still make no effort to evacuate the base, like they do with Echo Base in Empire Strikes Back. The moment Leia arrived at Yavin, they should have initiated an evacuation of all personnel except for the fighter pilots necessary to attack the Death Star.
- And then even after they miraculously blow up the Death Star via Luke’s one-in-a-million shot, instead of immediately evacuating, they still don’t evacuate the base. Instead, they stay around for an award ceremony. It’s unclear why a fleet of Star Destroyers doesn’t immediately show up at Yavin and obliterate the base.
I guess maybe all their transports were tied up elsewhere and couldn’t arrive until a while after the DS had been destroyed?
I feel like all the stuff at Jabba’s Palace, while brilliant on its own, feels pretty detached from the rest of ROTJ
Yoda can’t help the Rebels because he’s old and he’s basically just a teacher, not a warrior. The Prequels messed this up by portraying Yoda as a warrior.
As for stuff in the OT I don’t like:
Well, ANH and ESB are probably my favorite movies of all time - but they’re not perfect. ANH in particular has a lot of problems, which is understandable because it was the first movie, and a lot of “Star Wars lore” hadn’t yet been established. But I have to admit, the entire ending to ANH barely makes any sense:
- Leia takes the Falcon to Yavin IV, despite knowing they’re being tracked. She spent the entire movie - even endured torture - trying to keep the location of the Rebel base a secret. But at the end, after strongly suspecting they’re being tracked, she’s just like “well whatever hopefully it all works out.”
- You can argue she did this strategically, to lure Tarkin and the Death Star to Yavin IV, so the Rebels would have a chance to take it out - but from her perspective this would have been a completely insane gamble. She didn’t know if the Death Star plans would reveal any weakness, or even if they did, whether it was something they could discover and figure out how to exploit in the few hours they would have before the Death Star arrived.
- Even if this was supposed to be some insane strategic gamble on Leia’s part, they still make no effort to evacuate the base, like they do with Echo Base in Empire Strikes Back. The moment Leia arrived at Yavin, they should have initiated an evacuation of all personnel except for the fighter pilots necessary to attack the Death Star.
- And then even after they miraculously blow up the Death Star via Luke’s one-in-a-million shot, instead of immediately evacuating, they still don’t evacuate the base. Instead, they stay around for an award ceremony. It’s unclear why a fleet of Star Destroyers doesn’t immediately show up at Yavin and obliterate the base.
That last point is likely partially a result of ANH being the first movie. With only ANH in mind, we can perhaps infer that the Rebels didn’t evacuate Yavin IV because they figured it would take weeks or months for the nearest Star Destroyer to arrive at Yavin. (Later movies made this an impossible option, as hyperspace travel seems to take only a few hours most of the time - perhaps a few days at most.)
These issues with the Death Star assault likely occurred because originally, the ending to ANH was written without any “ticking clock” countdown as the Death Star comes into firing range of Yavin IV. Originally, the Death Star didn’t come to Yavin at all. Rather, the Rebels just someone know where the Death Star is (I guess it was still parked at Alderaan), and after discovering the weakness they fly X-wing squadrons to the Death Star. I think Marcia Lucas suggested that the Death Star should actually show up at Yavin, which introduces a much-needed “ticking clock”, so the Rebels have limited time and a dramatic count-down before the Death Star blows up Yavin. But unfortunately, this introduces the side problem that it makes Leia look incredibly reckless. I thought of a solution to this once that probably makes everything work, providing both the ticking clock and not making Leia look crazy - but I wouldn’t bother trying to implement a fan-edit because most people don’t have any problems with the ending to ANH.
I do now! Thanks for that! 😉 The only thing that ever bothered me (since childhood) is Leia intentionally leading the empire to Yavin. Now I’ve got to contend with the rebels all smugly having a frankly quite extravagant, almost imperialistic looking ceremony (not exactly your ragtag group of rebels kind of thing) when at any time the whole base could be taken out with an orbital bombardment.
I’m guessing Yavin wasn’t the entire rebel fleet (although it is definitely implied it’s the rebel base), that they probably had a better chance luring the Death Star there and approaching it from behind Yavin (because the imperials had to leave hyperspace on the other side of Yavin because… er…) than approaching it from deep space somewhere where they’d be largely picked off by star destroyers.
I like to think they had a fair idea there was a weakness to be exploited that could be found in the plans. Did Rogue One cover that a bit?
After the battle the rebels are keeping a close eye on imperial movements and know where the rest of the fleet are. I also like to think there are people and droids packing stuff up during the ceremony and that huge hall is just filled with whoever could be spared, and the moment the credits roll someone shouts, ‘Right, that’s it, you’ve had your fun. Pack everything up. We’re outta here!’
Some more thoughts about Yoda and his relationship with the Rebellion:
Overthinking this a bit, I guess I have to agree that it makes very little sense that Yoda isn’t more actively involved with the Rebellion. Sure, he’s not a warrior like he was in the Prequels - but so what? He’s a Jedi with the ability to see the future (at least partially). He could be an invaluable asset for Rebel military intelligence. They could ask him to use the Force to ascertain the probability that some mission will succeed or fail, or use the Force to predict what the Imperials will do in certain situations. The ability to see the future (even if it’s not 100% reliable) would be invaluable in terms of military strategy and intelligence gathering.
But this is supposed to be a fantasy and Yoda is an archetype: he’s the wise master that lives in a remote location and will semi-reluctantly train those who are willing to learn.
Some more thoughts about Yoda and his relationship with the Rebellion:
Overthinking this a bit, I guess I have to agree that it makes very little sense that Yoda isn’t more actively involved with the Rebellion. Sure, he’s not a warrior like he was in the Prequels - but so what? He’s a Jedi with the ability to see the future (at least partially). He could be an invaluable asset for Rebel military intelligence. They could ask him to use the Force to ascertain the probability that some mission will succeed or fail, or use the Force to predict what the Imperials will do in certain situations. The ability to see the future (even if it’s not 100% reliable) would be invaluable in terms of military strategy and intelligence gathering.
But this is supposed to be a fantasy and Yoda is an archetype: he’s the wise master that lives in a remote location and will semi-reluctantly train those who are willing to learn.
That is an interesting take and thought exercise ^, although isn’t that the fault of the Prequels, more than a dislike of the OT, in not giving us (or Yoda) a valid reason for him to be hiding in isolation on Dagobah all that time?
Having Yoda immediately exile himself to Dagobah after his brief fight ending in a draw against the Emperor, with no attempt at rescuing or helping other surviving Jedi, or even trying to thwart the Empire (in effect letting the Sith rule the galaxy for 20 years plus, before reluctantly training Luke for a short time), does certainly bring up some issues!
^ - I also find these thought exercises invading my mind and time even after all these years! Must be a holdover from all the time spent piecing information and guessing how it the story could play out in the Prequel stories (before the Prequels were ever released).
“In the future it will become even easier for old negatives to become lost and be “replaced” by new altered negatives. This would be a great loss to our society. Our cultural history must not be allowed to be rewritten.” - George Lucas
The whole universe shrinkage thing as the OT progresses. It isn’t just the Luke/Leia/Vader family retcons, but that this paved the way for such a narrow focus in on-screen Star Wars material since.
“Don’t tell anyone… but when ‘Star Wars’ first came out, I didn’t know where it was going either. The trick is to pretend you’ve planned the whole thing out in advance. Throw in some father issues and references to other stories - let’s call them homages - and you’ve got a series.” - George Lucas
The whole universe shrinkage thing as the OT progresses. It isn’t just the Luke/Leia/Vader family retcons, but that this paved the way for such a narrow focus in on-screen Star Wars material since.
I think the biggest example of this is that the Endor strike team is led by Han Solo, Princess Leia and Luke Skywalker just kinda because. There really should have been some more scenes (shots at least) of random rebel officers fighting the battle on Endor instead of just the main heroes and the Ewoks. (There is a grand total of ONE shot of just soldiers during the battle in Jedi; as opposed to the many in the battle of Hoth, a scene which actually plays out almost like a gritty war movie, at least the closest it gets to serious ground assault in the trilogy)
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Yeah that stuff is pretty odd considering Leia was a leader for the Echo Base and logically would never go out with the grunts. Does George even know what a General is? Why would Han Solo be like Patton or something… then again why was Obi-wan given that rank pre-PT? I wonder if he ever planned an explanation at all. The scale is also so weird compared to the ESB battle, why are there are no air speeders or bombers to give a wider picture of everything. They’re all just in a clearing with a few AT-STs wandering about, there’s no obvious direction to the two opposing forces.