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Things you DISLIKE about the Original Trilogy ( but not the Ewoks, Leia and Luke being siblings, Death Star 2 etc.)

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I really don’t like, and this has only bothered me recently, how important it is for Luke to be a Jedi. The whole “we have a new enemy who could destroy us” thing is weird. I mean…why can’t Yoda help The Rebels? Why did he bother going into hiding? The PT doesn’t help at all in resolving this stuff either; if anything it makes it worse. Yoda can’t defeat The Empero, so what chance would Luke have? Yoda remarks that only a fully trained Jedi can defeat Yoda and The Emperor. Did he forgot how he couldn’t defeat Palpatine after being a Jedi for who knows how long?

The only explanation that makes sense to me is that, as conceived during the production of ESB, a Jedi Master is more like a coach/trainer, but did not have the advanced combat skills that a Jedi Knight did. So a Master is a different position rather than a superior rank in the Jedi Order.

I suppose having Jedi on The Rebellions side could be a huge PR cure for The Rebellion…Luke would be a great status symbol and give legitimacy to the cause. But it needs to be flushed out how important Jedi are to the legitimacy of the galactic government…but I think I am straying a little from the Topic.

I also dislike how overpowered The Force becomes in ESB and the later films. To use an analogy from Dune; I prefer it as something that gives people the abilities of a Mentat/bene geserit (at most). Which I think was the initial conception.

“It is only through interaction, through decision and choice, through confrontation, physical or mental, that the Force can grow within you.”
-Kreia, Jedi Master and Sith Lord

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theprequelsrule said:

I really don’t like, and this has only bothered me recently, how important it is for Luke to be a Jedi. The whole “we have a new enemy who could destroy us” thing is weird. I mean…why can’t Yoda help The Rebels? Why did he bother going into hiding? The PT doesn’t help at all in resolving this stuff either; if anything it makes it worse. Yoda can’t defeat The Empero, so what chance would Luke have? Yoda remarks that only a fully trained Jedi can defeat Yoda and The Emperor. Did he forgot how he couldn’t defeat Palpatine after being a Jedi for who knows how long?

The only explanation that makes sense to me is that, as conceived during the production of ESB, a Jedi Master is more like a coach/trainer, but did not have the advanced combat skills that a Jedi Knight did. So a Master is a different position rather than a superior rank in the Jedi Order.

I suppose having Jedi on The Rebellions side could be a huge PR cure for The Rebellion…Luke would be a great status symbol and give legitimacy to the cause. But it needs to be flushed out how important Jedi are to the legitimacy of the galactic government…but I think I am straying a little from the Topic.

I also dislike how overpowered The Force becomes in ESB and the later films. To use an analogy from Dune; I prefer it as something that gives people the abilities of a Mentat/bene geserit (at most). Which I think was the initial conception.

Why can’t he help the Rebels? He’s older now for one. He’s also come to the belief that wars don’t make one great and arguably I think the biggest reason he decides to stay hidden is in the event Luke fails he can train Leia. I mean he could see it as Luke would only have a chance at defeating Palpatine and Vader as a fully trained Jedi. It doesn’t contradict really. If anything it’s him knowing from experience that a said Jedi would stand a chance. It just wasn’t Yoda’s particular destiny to defeat Palpatine.

So there’s really nothing there I see as contradicting but merely a wisdom of knowing when to get involved and when to stay patient with the past experiences he had during the Old Republic era.

The importance of the Jedi is shown throughout the Prequels. They’re peacekeepers and negotiators. Albeit they’ve lost their way in certain ways but they’re still doing their best. It makes sense as Bail Organa originally sent out for Obi-Wan as it is said in Revenge of the Sith when they’re all together the Jedi will disappear until the time is right. The connection is established between the early seeds of the Rebel Alliance and Jedi working together in that scene. So naturally when Obi-Wan and Bail for that matter end up passing on Luke becomes the Jedi within their ranks while Leia takes Bail’s role. However one could just as well see Luke is serving the Rebel Alliance like everyone else as his whole time with Yoda is learning to be a Jedi. It’s different from being a hero in the Rebel Alliance which includes adventure but like Yoda said a Jedi doesn’t crave having one. Being a Jedi requires more discipline as then in Return of the Jedi you see Luke go into the heart of the Empire with Death Star II versus A New Hope when he’s more externally connected to the conflict with the first Death Star.

The natural question after Return of the Jedi though I think is asking how the Jedi Order and New Republic will coexist but that loose end wasn’t picked up on per say.

To answer the original question, the only thing I can think of that I dislike about the Original Trilogy is Luke and Leia kissing but in a way there’s a lot of mythology that does the same thing. So while it is weird that they do kiss it’s not completely unheard of within myth and we know it influenced George. The story did evolve away it seems from having twins but there were earlier drafts of A New Hope with twins. So it ended up finding its way back into the story and from a mythological perspective it works.

“Heroes come in all sizes, and you don’t have to be a giant hero. You can be a very small hero. It’s just as important to understand that accepting self-responsibility for the things you do, having good manners, caring about other people - these are heroic acts. Everybody has the choice of being a hero or not being a hero every day of their lives.” - George Lucas

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Stardust1138 said:
the only thing I can think of that I dislike about the Original Trilogy is Luke and Leia kissing but in a way there’s a lot of mythology that does the same thing. So while it is weird that they do kiss it’s not completely unheard of within myth and we know it influenced George

They weren’t related when he wrote the movie. No mythology, no influences, no anything else. It was a farm boy and a princess in the only thing Lucas had written. There was no Original Vision or multi-film Saga

Star Wars was just a single outer space adventure movie. It’s well documented that he wrote the Empire line ”no, there is another” without having any idea where he would go with the story.

He had writer’s block later and ham-fisted his way out of it. It’s weird because it was poorly handled by a bad writer. If Lucas really had anything beyond one film in mind, he wouldn’t have hired two writers to come up with possible sequels to his only script.

It’s truly sad how Lucas has spent decades crafting this revised image of himself as some deep thinker who embarked on a grand 12-film/6-film/9-film/the media made that up/it was always my idea/etc, Saga (genuflect).
The only thing Lucas is truly great at is revising history. Some of us got on this merry-go-round at the beginning. We know the truth because we were there as it was happening.

https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/George-Lucas-Star-Wars-Creator-Unreliable-Narrator-Time-Travelling-Revisionist/id/66986

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  • Luke and Leia saying “Ben Kenobi” rather than “Obi-Wan Kenobi” when they meet on the Death Star while Leia says “Obi-Wan Kenobi” in the hologram before that.

  • Anakin becoming a Force Ghost. ANH and ESB both make it clear that Vader doesn’t know about Force Ghosting.

  • Jerjerrod telling Vader he needs more “men” rather than using a gender-neutral term.

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darklordoftech said:

Jerjerrod telling Vader he needs more “men” rather than using a gender-neutral term.

You realize ROTJ was made in 1983, right? I’m all for gender-neutral language, but that just seems petty.

My preferred Skywalker Saga experience:
I II III IV V VI VII VIII IX

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Anchorhead said:

They weren’t related when he wrote the movie. No mythology, no influences, no anything else. It was a farm boy and a princess in the only thing Lucas had written. There was no Original Vision or multi-film Saga

I meant earlier drafts with Annikin Starkiller and Deak Starkiller. The story evolved away from siblings to arbitrary come together in Return of the Jedi with Luke and Leia becoming twins. I got my information crossed on the twins part.

There’s a lot of mythology that has Luke and Leia like relationships at the same time. So I do think there’s some merit as to why he’d merge the two than simply wrapping up the loose end of “Another”. Although arguably that was part of it because he was burnt out by Star Wars and wasn’t going to do Sequels at the time.

“Heroes come in all sizes, and you don’t have to be a giant hero. You can be a very small hero. It’s just as important to understand that accepting self-responsibility for the things you do, having good manners, caring about other people - these are heroic acts. Everybody has the choice of being a hero or not being a hero every day of their lives.” - George Lucas

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I’m brand new to this forum, this is my first post. I’m a huge fan of the original trilogy, and I’m not a fan of much else 😃 I love games, toys, etc. that focus on the original trilogy.

My #1 pet peeve from the original trilogy (that I will change if I ever write my own interpretation): In ep 4, when the Rebels have launched their attack on the Death Star and Vader decides to scramble fighters to fight the Rebels, only about 15 TIEs are launched. Wow, seriously? If I were Vader and it was my Death Star, I’d be sure to outnumber the Rebel fighters at least 2 to 1. If, say, 80 fighters were launched instead of 15, and the Rebels still found a way to cut through and destroy the DS, it would have been all the more glorious and epic 😃

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RetributorsFury said:

I’m brand new to this forum, this is my first post. I’m a huge fan of the original trilogy, and I’m not a fan of much else 😃 I love games, toys, etc. that focus on the original trilogy.

My #1 pet peeve from the original trilogy (that I will change if I ever write my own interpretation): In ep 4, when the Rebels have launched their attack on the Death Star and Vader decides to scramble fighters to fight the Rebels, only about 15 TIEs are launched. Wow, seriously? If I were Vader and it was my Death Star, I’d be sure to outnumber the Rebel fighters at least 2 to 1. If, say, 80 fighters were launched instead of 15, and the Rebels still found a way to cut through and destroy the DS, it would have been all the more glorious and epic 😃

Welcome to the forum! Hope you like it here.

Yeah, I always chalked that up to budget and technical limitations, but I see what you mean. It would’ve made for a more daunting finale for the good guys. I remember Adywan’s Revisited edit did a good job of adding new shots that beefed up the TIE fighter presence during the battle.

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Luke saying robots in SW as which has to be a writing error for sure.

And in the time of greatest despair, there shall come a savior, and he shall be known as the Son of the Suns.

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RetributorsFury said:

I’m brand new to this forum, this is my first post. I’m a huge fan of the original trilogy, and I’m not a fan of much else 😃 I love games, toys, etc. that focus on the original trilogy.

Welcome to the forum king

Anchorhead said:

Stardust1138 said:
the only thing I can think of that I dislike about the Original Trilogy is Luke and Leia kissing but in a way there’s a lot of mythology that does the same thing. So while it is weird that they do kiss it’s not completely unheard of within myth and we know it influenced George

It’s truly sad how Lucas has spent decades crafting this revised image of himself as some deep thinker who embarked on a grand 12-film/6-film/9-film/the media made that up/it was always my idea/etc, Saga (genuflect).

Rowling does the same thing. I wonder if creating something that becomes as popular as Harry Potter or Star Wars does stuff like this to a person. Are there any other examples?

Death of the Author

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I can’t speak to Rowling because I’m not familiar with her stories. I can, however, speak to Lucas and his ever-evolving delusion of grandeur. He long ago bought into his own press and his sudden crafting of his Original Vision that he wrote in 1974 (eye roll).

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You believe what you want to believe.

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LexX said:

Luke saying robots in SW as which has to be a writing error for sure.

I rather liked it, since it’s objectively correct and it may be more correct than the term ‘droid’, if that term is merely a contraction of the term ‘android’, since that denotes a humanoid robot.

Of course I have no problem with ‘droid’ being shorthand for all robots in Star Wars, it’s just neat when a single thing in a story can have more than one designation depending on circumstance.

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Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)

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It is also weird Luke referring to Ben as Obi-Wan for the first time in ROTJ. I wonder if that is a writing error as well, or is it something that happened production-wise. For the past 2 movies and 30 years of Luke’s life he’s always been Ben to him, and then a couple of years after his death and when he has seen Ben for only 2 times after that, he starts to call him Obi-Wan? It just doesn’t fit into the story.

And in the time of greatest despair, there shall come a savior, and he shall be known as the Son of the Suns.

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LexX said:

It is also weird Luke referring to Ben as Obi-Wan for the first time in ROTJ. I wonder if that is a writing error as well, or is it something that happened production-wise. For the past 2 movies and 30 years of Luke’s life he’s always been Ben to him, and then a couple of years after his death and when he has seen Ben for only 2 times after that, he starts to call him Obi-Wan? It just doesn’t fit into the story.

I don’t see this as an error. Yoda says as Luke is leaving Dagobah the first time - “Yes, yes to Obi-Wan you listen” - when they’re trying to warn him to not go to his friends. Anakin/Vader also calls him Obi-Wan to Luke. Luke naturally picked up on considering him as Obi-Wan instead of Ben Kenobi, his alas, from exile. He does though still call him Ben when they’re sitting together and having their more personal heart to heart. “I can’t do it, Ben.” I can count only three times when he refers to him by the name Obi-Wan. Once when he isn’t sure if who he knows as Ben is one of the same as Obi-Wan, with Leia on the Death Star, and the last time you talk about is when he says “Obi-Wan” before thet instance where they sit down and talk things out. You can see his slight irritation before they do. It makes sense within each context. Plus keep in mind Luke is only twenty three in Return of the Jedi.

“Heroes come in all sizes, and you don’t have to be a giant hero. You can be a very small hero. It’s just as important to understand that accepting self-responsibility for the things you do, having good manners, caring about other people - these are heroic acts. Everybody has the choice of being a hero or not being a hero every day of their lives.” - George Lucas

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I’m not sure I like Force Ghosts. Hearing the words of the deceased is one thing, but the whole blue apparition thing…not sure if I like it anymore. I liked it in Heir to The Empire when Obi-wan could only communicate to Luke in his dreams.

“It is only through interaction, through decision and choice, through confrontation, physical or mental, that the Force can grow within you.”
-Kreia, Jedi Master and Sith Lord

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I love everything in the original Star Wars.

The one thing I probably dislike about Empire is how it makes the dark side and the good side more binary than it had to be. Makes sense in the end but Vader himself calling his side the “dark” one is so taken for granted nowadays but it didn’t have to be that way. He could still think he was in the right. In fact, stuff like ROTS would be far more believable. “I do not fear the dark side as you do.” My guy it’s called the dark side, you should be skeptical of it to a degree, no? Though it also makes sense in that one as Anakin arguably sees it being called the “dark” side as part of the Jedi’s brainwashing and it’s not that different from their light. But anyway, this all traces back to Empire. “How do I know the good side from the bad?” That actually implies there’s a lot more nuance to it, which we don’t really see all that often. Again, thematically it all still works wonders but could be made more interesting if not for this.

There’s all the things to dislike about Jedi so I’ll save it. They’d mostly be down to stuff like “another Death Star?!” which the title asks not to put here, so whatever hahah.

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If there’s one thing that bothers me about the OT (aside from what’s already been excluded from this topic), it would be how they handled Yoda’s line, “No, there is another.” It makes even less sense because Leia is already under threat when Yoda says it. Worse, he doesn’t know what the future holds on Cloud City, so why would this other person be Leia?

If you’re asking me, a new character should’ve been introduced to take the role. Yoda would meet up with him/her, Luke could run into this other person, they’d join forces, and if we’re gonna go with a rebel victory for the ending, this other person could lead the rebels while Luke confronts his father. I’m not saying that’s perfect, but it would be a better ending for ROTJ than what we got.

I have altered Lucas’ visions. Pray I don’t alter them any further.

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Stardust1138 said:

LexX said:

It is also weird Luke referring to Ben as Obi-Wan for the first time in ROTJ. I wonder if that is a writing error as well, or is it something that happened production-wise. For the past 2 movies and 30 years of Luke’s life he’s always been Ben to him, and then a couple of years after his death and when he has seen Ben for only 2 times after that, he starts to call him Obi-Wan? It just doesn’t fit into the story.

I don’t see this as an error. Yoda says as Luke is leaving Dagobah the first time - “Yes, yes to Obi-Wan you listen” - when they’re trying to warn him to not go to his friends. Anakin/Vader also calls him Obi-Wan to Luke. Luke naturally picked up on considering him as Obi-Wan instead of Ben Kenobi, his alas, from exile. He does though still call him Ben when they’re sitting together and having their more personal heart to heart. “I can’t do it, Ben.” I can count only three times when he refers to him by the name Obi-Wan. Once when he isn’t sure if who he knows as Ben is one of the same as Obi-Wan, with Leia on the Death Star, and the last time you talk about is when he says “Obi-Wan” before thet instance where they sit down and talk things out. You can see his slight irritation before they do. It makes sense within each context. Plus keep in mind Luke is only twenty three in Return of the Jedi.

I do. Also it’s the only time Luke calls Ben Obi-Wan in ROTJ so you have counted wrong.

And in the time of greatest despair, there shall come a savior, and he shall be known as the Son of the Suns.

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LexX said:

It is also weird Luke referring to Ben as Obi-Wan for the first time in ROTJ. I wonder if that is a writing error as well, or is it something that happened production-wise. For the past 2 movies and 30 years of Luke’s life he’s always been Ben to him, and then a couple of years after his death and when he has seen Ben for only 2 times after that, he starts to call him Obi-Wan? It just doesn’t fit into the story.

It’s been a while since I watched the OT, but I’m willing to theorize that the events of Empire got Luke shaken up enough that he started to call him Obi-Wan instead of Ben, due to feeling somewhat betrayed. My memory is hazy for tiny details like this one, but if Luke calls him Obi-Wan during the Dagobah visit in ROTJ, it’s a possible idea.

I have altered Lucas’ visions. Pray I don’t alter them any further.

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I hate that all of a sudden they created Leia as the sister because Lucas didn’t want to deal with the love triangle of two men pursuing Leia. Because Luke following the Jedi path meant he had to give her up anyway, but she didn’t have to be his sister and a Skywalker because Luke’s real sister was out there in the universe and wasn’t supposed to show up into the sequels.

I don’t like that it supposedly made Star Wars 1977 more mythic because of incestous overtones. When Lucas wasn’t basing these on the myths he was basing them on Flash Gordon and Buck Rogers.

There aren’t major problems for me with the OT like the other trilogies. Although maybe Vader shouldn’t have been Luke’s father possibly, but i don’t know if the other way to tell the story would be better. A simple Revenge tale. Vader killed Luke’s father and Luke would kill Vader. But Lucas decided Jedi’s don’t take revenge because it turns them into Sith.

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Interesting how a fair number of people see Vader being Luke’s father as, perhaps, not a great idea. Far fewer people thought this in the last century I would bet.

“It is only through interaction, through decision and choice, through confrontation, physical or mental, that the Force can grow within you.”
-Kreia, Jedi Master and Sith Lord

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Eyepainter said:

If there’s one thing that bothers me about the OT (aside from what’s already been excluded from this topic), it would be how they handled Yoda’s line, “No, there is another.” It makes even less sense because Leia is already under threat when Yoda says it. Worse, he doesn’t know what the future holds on Cloud City, so why would this other person be Leia?

If you’re asking me, a new character should’ve been introduced to take the role. Yoda would meet up with him/her, Luke could run into this other person, they’d join forces, and if we’re gonna go with a rebel victory for the ending, this other person could lead the rebels while Luke confronts his father. I’m not saying that’s perfect, but it would be a better ending for ROTJ than what we got.

This has always bugged the heck out of me! Yes, Yoda and Ben had just told Luke to sacrifice Han and Leia for the greater good, and then Yoda followed with “now matters are worse”. Hardly sounds like a guy who had just sensed that Leia would be rescued and immediately groomed for Jedi-hood. interestingly she’s not “too old” to begin the training…

I always felt Boba Fett should’ve been the ‘other’. He could’ve been someone who had trained under Yoda, abandoned the training, and taken on the bounty hunter mantle in order to infiltrate the Empire by doing bounty gigs for Vader/Palpatine. Instead of killing his targets he would be sparing their lives and creating his own secret army somewhere (hence Vader’s “no disintegrations” line) - that would explain his determination to keep Han Solo alive. Ha could turn the tide of the final battle by bringing in his fleet of pals (kind of like Lando in TROS) while Luke confronts Vader…(of course I’m thinking of Fett circa 1980, not the modern version)…

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theprequelsrule said:

Interesting how a fair number of people see Vader being Luke’s father as, perhaps, not a great idea. Far fewer people thought this in the last century I would bet.

It was a great idea, but the follow-through was woeful. A certain point of view? No, I think Obi Wan should have revealed that he had promised Owen Lars he would run with the ‘Vader killed your father’ thing. The backstory should have been that it was Owen who had insisted on Luke being raised on Tatooine (Luke’s being supposedly ‘hidden’ there makes no sense) and retaining his brother’s surname. Then it would stand to reason that Obi Wan would retire nearby in order to keep an eye on Luke in the event that Vader might attempt to claim his son.

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screams in the void said:

I dislike that its still not available on a modern high definition format in its original form after all these years .

I know, right? On the bright side, though, there’s always Harmy’s Despecialized Editions on this forum. That, and Puggo Grande’s 16mm preservations for those who love seeing movies in a filthy film state. 😏

I have altered Lucas’ visions. Pray I don’t alter them any further.