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The vocalizing in the PT.

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I think the vocalizing in the PT made the films try to be too dramatic and it doesn't work. It just made the films come off more pretentious then they already were. The "Dual of Fates" in TPM was kinda cool but after that I thought it became too much with the "Order 66" Jedi execution sequence in ROTS. The films are always trying to hit you over the head with the emotions you should feel in each scene. The music should extenuate the feeling of the scenes instead of constrain it which is the way I felt whenever there was vocalizing in the PT. The OT had very little vocalizing, non in ANH and ESB, and just a little in ROTJ. I think it really works better by just using orchestrated music. I think a little vocalizing used in moderation can enhance the music like in the Terminator 2 score, but we all know how good GL is at using things in moderation.
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Originally posted by: Samrogers
I think the vocalizing in the PT made the films try to be too dramatic and it doesn't work. It just made the films comThe OT had very little vocalizing, non in ANH and ESB


Listen to "City in the Clouds" again.
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Yeah, I love the vocalization on the approach to Cloud City. Hell, it's one of my favorite pieces of music in that entire movie. And I think Empire's score has some of the best pieces in the entire trilogy. I get where you're coming from, though, but I really don't think it was the vocalizing that was detrimental to the PT's score. It was all the tracked music they used (especially in Sith) that gave it a really used TV-esque feel to it.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Can you count the Ewoks song as vocalizing??

Yub Yub!!

Also, have to agree with Gaffer man about the tracking in the PT. That's one of the things that really bugged me about those films. It just seemed such a lazy thing to do.
Granted the average Joe wouldn't have been able to spot them, but for the geeks of the world, it sticks out like a Elephant with pink pants on!

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Yub Nub, I think it should count as vocalized. That one is a true classic. Craig Kilborn preformed an acustic version of it on his show some years ago, it was pretty funny. Replacing that song may have been the one aspect of the SE I truly enjoyed, I found the new music much more moving and fitting for the end of the trilogy. It is sad but happy at once, kind of like a sigh of relief and deep breath taken at the end of a great long winded struggle, finally a chance to relax... and mourn the loss of our comrades.

I didn't mind the vocalized music of the PT, it definately had flaws far beyond that to take the blame. I really liked Duel of the Fates, it was a great and very energetic piece. I think ROTS may have gone a little overboard with it though. Some spots had very dramatic music while the stuff going on on screen was utter lameness, I feel this gives the film a slightly comic effect, which I am pretty sure is not what they were aiming for.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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How about in Jedi when Luke takes down Vader, and Vader kills the Emperor.
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I think that's probably what Samrogers was referring to. At least, that's what I assumed.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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At least John Williams was able to make me feel something during scenes in the PT. Without the epicness (wha?) of Battle of the Heroes, the energy of Duel of the Fates, or the eeriness of the music during the ROTS balcony scene, GL would have gotten little to no emotion through with the lame acting/dialogue and the less than gripping camera work (not a knock on the actual operators mind you)...again, the balcony scene aside. I totally love watching and listening to that scene even out of context of the movie because it makes me happy knowing for a minute and a half, John Williams and George Lucas got me to feel awesome watching something so simplistic.

So basically, yeah the score and vocalizations do kinda force emotions but in the case of the PT, I'm more than happy to have something to love about the PT. I listen to those soundtracks more than I've seen the movies and it's always nice.

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I thought the PT had some good music, but the PT plot/characterization/dialogue/delivery/execution makes it hard to appreciate what are essentially good music scores (Duel of Fates, Across the Stars, Battle of Heroes... Jar Jar's theme sucked though).
I'd like a qui-gon jinn please with an Obi-Wan to go.

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All things considered, I'm just glad that John Williams was alive long enough to realize the scores for all 6 of the Star Wars films. What is he? Like, 90 or something?

The concious decision to make the scores more "vocalized" to give them a regal, ancient feel is questionable, but I still enjoy them on a certain level.

C'mon - the opening music from ROTS was great though, wasn't it?
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John william's score is the only good thing about the prequels. Though, it kinda sucks compared to the OT soundtrack.

Well, I'm not being fair here, I have to give credit to Phantom Menace's well realized jedi battle between Obi, Quigon and Maul. It totally felt out of place. Too good.

edit: oh, and cass, he's about 76 now I think. hehe
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I disagree with the overall sentiment here. I absolutley love the music from the PT, especially the emotional tone it was trying to reach. I thought it suceeded with that and didn't overdramatize anything. I also didn't mind the "tracked" music that was used in Sith. I assume by "tracked", you mean previously used themes from the OT? If so, then I thought it was appropiate and I would've been disappointed by not hearing some of the previous themes.
All of that said, though, I do still prefer the OT scores.
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Originally posted by: rolla
I assume by "tracked", you mean previously used themes from the OT?


No, we mean chopped up music recordings from the earlier PT movies being reused in the later movies.

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Oh, ok. Well, I recall a short section of "Duel of the Fates" being used on Tatooine in AOTC which I wasn't crazy about. I liked hearing it, but was disappointed in how short it was. It was also used for Yoda vs. Sidious, and I agree that it was out of place in that battle.
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Originally posted by: Tiptup
Originally posted by: rolla
I assume by "tracked", you mean previously used themes from the OT?


No, we mean chopped up music recordings from the earlier PT movies being reused in the later movies.


Well, I was actually referring to both. Clones only seemed to use some tracked music from Phantom, but Sith went totally crazy and had big recognizable chunks from both the OT and previous PT. I was never quite sure if I should feel nostalgic and happy or cheapened and cheated.

EDIT: Upon re-reading it, I need to clarify/change. I'm not talking about reusing the same themes, because, as a leitmotif soundtrack, Star Wars has always rearranged the same basic themes (like Luke's theme, Leia's them, and especially Ben's/Force theme). I complain about wholesale cut and paste of previously used arrangements, like a big chunk of the Luke/Vader ESB duel during Sith.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape
Yeah, I love the vocalization on the approach to Cloud City. Hell, it's one of my favorite pieces of music in that entire movie. And I think Empire's score has some of the best pieces in the entire trilogy. I get where you're coming from, though, but I really don't think it was the vocalizing that was detrimental to the PT's score. It was all the tracked music they used (especially in Sith) that gave it a really used TV-esque feel to it.


Yeah I love that piece too. And the Asteroid field is probably my alltime favorite Star Wars piece.

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I agree. But I found it quite surprising when I got the soundtrack that the climax of that piece (you know what I'm talking about) was much shorter than it seems in the movie. I never can get enough of that reckless soaring feeling that part of the piece gives me.

Once again, it's been a while since I've seen you around much. Don't be a stranger, Jenny.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.