"The thought of not being with you, I can't breathe!" — Page 3

TheoOdo said:

"Now, Viceroy, we will discuss a new treaty!"

Whoah-ho! Hold the phone! They're gonna' discuss a treaty!? WOW! I'm giddy with anticipation! In the words of the young Anakin Skywalker: Whoopie!

 LEIA: Lord Vader, I should have known. Only you could be so bold. The
Imperial Senate will not sit for this, when they hear you've attacked
a diplomatic...

VADER: Don't play games with me, Your Highness. You weren't on any
mercy mission this time. You passed directly through a restricted
system. Several transmissions were beamed to this ship by Rebel spies.
I want to know what happened to the plans they sent you.

LEIA: I don't know what you're talking about. I'm a member of the
Imperial Senate on a diplomatic mission to Alderaan...
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...............imperial senate...............diplomatic...........zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz..........mercy mission................restricted system........zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...........imperial senate.................diplomatic mission........zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 ...much later

HAN: (yelling) Yahoo!
====================================================================

will someone wake me up when they actually start talking about something interesting???????????

see, it works both ways, doesn't it..

later

-1

[technical addition............................since i'm mapping out episode 4 frame-by-frame, here's my synopsis of the same events]

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

LEIA: Only you could be so bold. The
Imperial Senate will not sit still for this, when they hear you've attacked
a diplomatic...

VADER: You weren't on any mercy mission this time.......Several transmissions were beamed to this ship by Rebel spies.
I want to know what happened to the plans they sent you.

LEIA: I don't know what you're talking about. I'm a member of the
Imperial Senate on a diplomatic mission to Alderaan...

HAN: (yelling) Yahoo!

 

And yet, James Earl Jones, Carrie Fisher and Harrison Ford were still somehow able to deliver those lines convincingly (cringe-free). Hmmmmmm...........

So, based on that, I've determined that the acting in the Prequels sucked slightly more than the dialogue. ;-)

negative1 said:

 LEIA: Lord Vader, I should have known. Only you could be so bold. The
Imperial Senate will not sit for this, when they hear you've attacked
a diplomatic...

VADER: Don't play games with me, Your Highness. You weren't on any
mercy mission this time. You passed directly through a restricted
system. Several transmissions were beamed to this ship by Rebel spies.
I want to know what happened to the plans they sent you.

LEIA: I don't know what you're talking about. I'm a member of the
Imperial Senate on a diplomatic mission to Alderaan...
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...............imperial senate...............diplomatic...........zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz..........mercy mission................restricted system........zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...........imperial senate.................diplomatic mission........zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Actually, no.  and you got the quote completely wrong there. Not sure where you are copying that from but its not as it was in the movie.

...much later

HAN: (yelling) Yahoo!
====================================================================

will someone wake me up when they actually start talking about something interesting???????????

More interesting?? maybe you would prefer them to talk about treaties and trade federations and taxes and ZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzz..... sorry fell asleep there just thinking about it.

or maybe you think something like this is better:

ANAKIN: You are so beautiful!

PADME: It's only because I'm so in love . . .

ANAKIN: No, it's because I'm so in love with you.

PADME: So love has blinded you?

ERGHHHHHHHH!!! Now look what you made me do. you made me lose my lunch :)

NOTHING in the OT comes anywhere near to crap like this. He cut the important scenes about the start of the rebellion to add scenes like this?(which was added in re shoots after principal photography had finished because he felt the movie needed it).  Its the type of thing a pre-teen girl would write and not someone who was once regarded as such a great film maker.

The acting was terrible in the PT which emphasised the really bad dialogue but even the best actors in the world can't make gold out of shit.

ok, time out..

yes, i can't do my research properly.................. those quotes are from the 4th draft of the star wars script.....

how come i can't find the final version on the net?               has anyone transcribed it yet?

anyways,  you got my point...................even it wasn't the exact words....................imperial senates, councellors,

the darth vader board room meeting scene...................talk about alderaan, planetary conquest, etc...................

boring politics...................................

later

-1

negative1 said:

ok, time out..

yes, i can't do my research properly.................. those quotes are from the 4th draft of the star wars script.....

how come i can't final the final version on the net?               has anyone transcribed it yet?

 

anyways,  you got my point...................even it wasn't the exact words....................imperial senates, councellors,

the darth vader board room meeting scene...................talk about alderaan, planetary conquest, etc...................

boring politics...................................

 

later

-1

Except that it at least sounded exciting.  Contrast that with the Senate scenes in the PT, which looked like something you'd see on C-SPAN.

To be fair to negative 1 the dialogue is different in the final film than in the shooting script.

You want the llines as they were delivered in the film you need the transcripts aka continuity scripts.

Which were sold in the uk seperately and also came with the executor boxset which i have.

There are 2 versions of the fourth draft script out there.

The real shooting script which appears to be the same source Alan Dean Foster used for the novel, and the published final script.

It was first released in the art of star wars book.

Even the premiere magazine script still contains the deleted biggs scenes and the Jabba scene.

The scripts that have been released or leaked out are over at the starkiller site of the jedi bendu. 

Just type starwarz.com and youll find the link there.

skyjedi2005 said:

To be fair to negative 1 the dialogue is different in the final film than in the shooting script.

You want the llines as they were delivered in the film you need the transcripts aka continuity scripts.

I disagree.  If you want the lines as they were delivered, you need to watch the movies.  Only then can you get the tone, inflection, and the actors ability in it's true context.  I'm sure if the lines had received the same delivery as the PT lines did, they'd be downright dry and boring.

lordjedi said:

skyjedi2005 said:

To be fair to negative 1 the dialogue is different in the final film than in the shooting script.

You want the llines as they were delivered in the film you need the transcripts aka continuity scripts.

 

I disagree.  If you want the lines as they were delivered, you need to watch the movies.  Only then can you get the tone, inflection, and the actors ability in it's true context.  I'm sure if the lines had received the same delivery as the PT lines did, they'd be downright dry and boring.

do you think i would be going out too far on a limb to say that

1) i have a fair degree of certainty that anyone participating / commenting / arguing about any of the points in this thread

   is in fact, actually, referring to the way the lines WERE DELIVERED IN THE MOVIES..................if someone is reading these

   here for the first time without watching the movies (and reading all the spoilers also) they probably wouldn't comment,.......

   i don't think anyones implying that just reading these lines here is giving them an indication of how they were delivered in the movie

2) that being said.......... i stand by my analysis, that the lines come across as flat, dry, and in fact a little slow paced..........

    i have to admit that i've read Star Wars the novel/scripts etc....many many more times than i've ever watched the films..

    i just started listening to the radio dramas and the vinyl versions a lot more recently...............which again, have a different

    delivery..............................................   so maybe i'm more lenient on all the extra detail in the books, and in other formats,

    but have less patience in the film versions.............

later

-1

TheoOdo said:

@ Negative1

All of the OT is based on dichotomy, so all references to the political scene are there to expand upon the evil and undemocratic nature of the Galactic Empire. Although a backdrop which adds fullness to the setting, the references to imperial politics are not necessary to understand the plot of the film. In the PT they are. It's vital to the plot that we understand that Amidala wishes to discuss a treaty with the Viceroy in order to eject the Trade Federation from her planet. That's her motivation in returning to Naboo. It's not a particularly interesting motivation, but there you have it.

well,

ok, now that you've actually decided to be a little more descriptive, instead of being derisive (like you initially were),

and actually have some arguments/points to make......why didn't you just do that in the first place, instead of just

tossing out the off-handed brief commentary....................wouldn't that have saved you all the trouble of having to explain

yourself again, which you're doing now????????

i know the purpose, and intent of all the political scenes, i know their motivations, and in fact what they are allluding to in a larger picture...

not FOR ONE MINUTE , does it make it any easier, clearer, or strengthen the plot, or even add to its complexity for me.... it still boils

down to a backstory, that while mentioned in the crawl, doesn't need to be understood to enjoy the base level of the movie, it's an

adventure, its action, fighting, sneaking around, blowing up things, playing around with cool toys, seeing weird creatures,

and making some corny jokes, sarcastic comments, and having a good time overall......................................  i don't really want to

know about inter-planetary problems / alliances / issues etc..............it just bogs it all down....

Contrast that with Luke's motivation in destroying the Death Star; all his friends, and probably himself also, will die if he doesn't and the universe is doomed to endure constant tyranny, terror and genocide on planetary-scale for centuries to come. What would happen to Naboo if they didn't succeed? They'd, in all probability, have to wait for a commission to confirm that a droid army had indeed occupied Naboo and then hear from the Queen that she was forced to sign the treaty under threat of death, at which point it is rendered void and the droid army is expelled from Naboo with the assistance of the Republic.

speculation about the OT, once again not being demonstratable, struck down as a comment .................

speculation on the PT , struck down as a comment (unless theres some EU stuff that i don't know about)...

Scenario 1.) The universe is doomed. Scenario 2.) Naboo has a bad day.

that's a pretty loose interpretation of events , even with the 'star wars' closed universe of the PT, and the OT,

i would think it was doomed in both cases, or you could say 'alderaan' had a bad day couldn't you?

Also, the lines you picked out are character building. It informs us, first of all, of Darth Vader's name and also tells us that the white-robed woman is a politician, a royal and a sympathizer of the Rebellion mentioned in the opening crawl. It informs us that Vader is "bold" and that Leia is "merciful". Honestly, Negative1, you seemed to have picked out the only line in which the Imperial senate is mentioned, next to Tarkin's informing the other imperials that it's been destroyed which is there to further solidify our understanding that the Empire has no respect for even it's own spurious vision of democracy.

those lines didn't tell me more that what we already knew at the crawl (and honestly, by this point, i probably glossed over what i had seen earlier,

and was just trying to pay attention to the action)... and yes, they all have their place in adding to the commentary and viewpoints of the characters of course..

but the same is true in the PT, there were lines, scenes, and plot points that all had expository sections where they described events, attitudes, and similiarly

the context in which political climate were...[in fact, in much more detail]....

Whereas "now let's discuss a treaty" is hilariously anti-climatic, after a scene of lightsaber-fighting and shooting. It's rather like the line from the Da Vinci code "we need to find a library!". It's just so...bleh.

there you go again, just when you start explaining your viewpoint, which actually made me think about,

you resort to your own personal prejudices....

later

-1

negative1 said:

i was born in an asian country,

lived in canada for about 10+ years, then moved to africa, the middle east,

and settled in the USA for about the last 3 decades.............i'm actually a

dual citizen of canada-us........................and on top of that i lived in texas,

and picked up a few speech mannerisms from there.................there are

you as confused as i am....??

and of course, i did see 'star wars' in Canada, where they have different accents also...............eh? ok hoser, get off my chesterfield ! (ha!)

Okay, well, now I know why you misunderstood stuff that should be easy for a child. English and certain figures of speech can be very odd to someone who wasn't raised with them first-hand. It's also why I'm not going to read your comments in this thread anymore. You're trying to lecture us on something you're not as personally familiar with. Considering your background, your English skills are good, but practically with each post you keep illustrating how much you don't know as well (you might want to start adopting some humility).

If you truly see no difference in quality between the prequels and the originals, then I'll simply say that I'm happy you can enjoy the prequels that much. I'm done otherwise and will return to enjoying the original intent of this thread. Thank you.

negative1 said:

TheoOdo said:

@ Negative1

All of the OT is based on dichotomy, so all references to the political scene are there to expand upon the evil and undemocratic nature of the Galactic Empire. Although a backdrop which adds fullness to the setting, the references to imperial politics are not necessary to understand the plot of the film. In the PT they are. It's vital to the plot that we understand that Amidala wishes to discuss a treaty with the Viceroy in order to eject the Trade Federation from her planet. That's her motivation in returning to Naboo. It's not a particularly interesting motivation, but there you have it.

 

well,

ok, now that you've actually decided to be a little more descriptive, instead of being derisive (like you initially were),

and actually have some arguments/points to make......why didn't you just do that in the first place, instead of just

tossing out the off-handed brief commentary....................wouldn't that have saved you all the trouble of having to explain

yourself again, which you're doing now????????

 

i know the purpose, and intent of all the political scenes, i know their motivations, and in fact what they are allluding to in a larger picture...

 

not FOR ONE MINUTE , does it make it any easier, clearer, or strengthen the plot, or even add to its complexity for me.... it still boils

down to a backstory, that while mentioned in the crawl, doesn't need to be understood to enjoy the base level of the movie, it's an

adventure, its action, fighting, sneaking around, blowing up things, playing around with cool toys, seeing weird creatures,

and making some corny jokes, sarcastic comments, and having a good time overall......................................  i don't really want to

know about inter-planetary problems / alliances / issues etc..............it just bogs it all down....

 

And yet you enjoyed the PT?  How much time was spent talking about politics in the OT?  A short conversation in a hallway plus a couple of lines in a conference room.  How much time was spent discussing politics in the PT?  10 mins at the start of the movie, plus a whole scene in a giant Senate chamber.  And then there was even more in AOTC.

Contrast that with Luke's motivation in destroying the Death Star; all his friends, and probably himself also, will die if he doesn't and the universe is doomed to endure constant tyranny, terror and genocide on planetary-scale for centuries to come. What would happen to Naboo if they didn't succeed? They'd, in all probability, have to wait for a commission to confirm that a droid army had indeed occupied Naboo and then hear from the Queen that she was forced to sign the treaty under threat of death, at which point it is rendered void and the droid army is expelled from Naboo with the assistance of the Republic.

 

speculation about the OT, once again not being demonstratable, struck down as a comment .................

speculation on the PT , struck down as a comment (unless theres some EU stuff that i don't know about)...

 

Speculation?  How do you figure?  The entire intent of bringing the Death Star to Yavin was to blow up the Rebel base, killing everyone on the moon in the process.  Based on the conversation in TPM, the commission was about to be a reality.  Chancellor Valorum himself asked the Queen to defer so an investigation could be made.

 

Scenario 1.) The universe is doomed. Scenario 2.) Naboo has a bad day.

 

that's a pretty loose interpretation of events , even with the 'star wars' closed universe of the PT, and the OT,

i would think it was doomed in both cases, or you could say 'alderaan' had a bad day couldn't you?

The entire universe was not doomed by having a blockade on Naboo.  The entire universe was doomed if the "small band of rebels" had not been able to defeat the Death Star.  If the Alliance had been destroyed once and for all, then no system would have stood up to the Empire for fear of being totally destroyed.

 

Also, the lines you picked out are character building. It informs us, first of all, of Darth Vader's name and also tells us that the white-robed woman is a politician, a royal and a sympathizer of the Rebellion mentioned in the opening crawl. It informs us that Vader is "bold" and that Leia is "merciful". Honestly, Negative1, you seemed to have picked out the only line in which the Imperial senate is mentioned, next to Tarkin's informing the other imperials that it's been destroyed which is there to further solidify our understanding that the Empire has no respect for even it's own spurious vision of democracy.

 

those lines didn't tell me more that what we already knew at the crawl (and honestly, by this point, i probably glossed over what i had seen earlier,

and was just trying to pay attention to the action)... and yes, they all have their place in adding to the commentary and viewpoints of the characters of course..

but the same is true in the PT, there were lines, scenes, and plot points that all had expository sections where they described events, attitudes, and similiarly

the context in which political climate were...[in fact, in much more detail]....

 

The spoken lines told you who was who.  The only thing the lines in the crawl told you were the current state of events in the galaxy.  We didn't even know it was Leia until later in the movie.  All we knew was that she was the Ambassador and a powerful individual.  We knew Vader's character because people kept addressing him as "Lord Vader".  Now obviously most people figured out who Leia was from what they read in the crawl and what they saw on screen.  She's not even specifically named until Tarkin addresses her before Alderran's destruction.

How is this conversation still going on?