I have no problems with that line. The thought of not being able to get it on with Natalie Portman when she's obviously hot for me...I'd not be able to breathe either. I'd be popping out my pants.
lordjedi said:
Unfortunately, if I even think about the prequels while watching the OT, I think of Vader as a whiney little bitch instead of the true evil villain he is. That's probably why I don't think of the prequels much :)
Yeah, I know what you mean. Right after seeing Revenge of the Sith for the first time, I went to visit my parents, and my dad wanted to sit down and watch ANH together. I remember it felt like a totally different movie to me. I couldn't stop squiriming in my seat. All I could think of when I saw Vader on screen was whining Anakin and the stupid turn to the darkside in Revenge and his accidental murdering of the woman he was trying to save. That was the last time I watched ANH up until SW Revisited came out, by then I had gotten enough of the bad taste of ROTS out of my mouth that I was able to enjoy it again.
"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape
C3PX said:
lordjedi said:
Unfortunately, if I even think about the prequels while watching the OT, I think of Vader as a whiney little bitch instead of the true evil villain he is. That's probably why I don't think of the prequels much :)
Yeah, I know what you mean. Right after seeing Revenge of the Sith for the first time, I went to visit my parents, and my dad wanted to sit down and watch ANH together. I remember it felt like a totally different movie to me. I couldn't stop squiriming in my seat. All I could think of when I saw Vader on screen was whining Anakin and the stupid turn to the darkside in Revenge and his accidental murdering of the woman he was trying to save. That was the last time I watched ANH up until SW Revisited came out, by then I had gotten enough of the bad taste of ROTS out of my mouth that I was able to enjoy it again.
I had to purchase an unopened, widescreen edition of the 1995 release on VHS before I could forget all of that. The special editions just seem so tied to all of the crap that came out recently (that and they're not as good).
"Now all Lucas has to do is make a cgi version of himself. It will be better than the original and fit his original vision." - skyjedi2005
Octorox said:
The OT has some equally bad lines, they just aren't pivotal to the story.
no, a lot of the lines from the OT, are just as bad as the prequel lines....
and THEY ARE PIVOTAL.....people here on this board , either have selective memories,
bad memories, or just can't see past them:
(by the way, the original star wars from '77 is one of my all time favorite films)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Luke: But what if this Obi-Wan comes looking for him?
Uncle Owen: He won't. I don't think he exists anymore. He died about the same time as your father.
Luke: He knew my father?
how does someone 'die' about the same time as someone else? either they died at the same time, or they didn't?
--------
Governor Tarkin: The Jedi are extinct, their fire has gone out of the universe. You, my friend, are all that's left of their religion.
'their fire has gone out of the universe' ? is that supposed to be poetic?
======================
General Tagge: What of the Rebellion? If the Rebels have obtained a complete technical reading of this station, it is possible, however unlikely, they might find a weakness and exploit it.
what is this, monty python? how much more explanation do you need?
--------------------------------------
Obi-Wan: Yes. I was once a Jedi knight, the same as your father.
Luke: I wish I'd known him.
Obi-Wan: He was the best star pilot in the galaxy, and a cunning warrior. I understand that you've become quite a good pilot yourself.
come on obi-wan, get to the point......................why do keep changing the subject so much, just stick to one thing, why the unnecessary
speculation about whether luke is a good pilot or not?
----------------------------------------
C-3PO: And I am C-3PO, human-cyborg relations. And this is my counterpart R2D2.
no really? and we couldn't figure that out by ourselves, did you have tell us that?
------------------------------------------
Darth Vader: Several fighters have broken off from the main group. Come with me!
[the pilots follow Vader to the hangar]
duh? do they really need to be told that enemy fighters are going to blow them up?
--------------------------------------------
Imperial Officer: We count 30 Rebel ships, Lord Vader, but they're so small they're avoiding our turbolasers!
Darth Vader: We'll have to destroy them ship to ship. Get the crews to their fighters.
i guess 'turbolasers' are somehow 'faster' than regular laser guns????????
--------------------------------------------
Luke: You don't believe in the Force, do you?
Han Solo: Kid, I've flown from one side of this galaxy to the other, and I've seen a lot of strange stuff, but I've never seen *anything* to make me believe that there's one all-powerful Force controlling everything. 'Cause no mystical energy field controls *my* destiny. It's all a lot of simple tricks and nonsense.
gee, Han, have you really seen everything in the galaxy? why do tell Luke later on 'may the force be with you'?????
who said it was a mystical energy field?
=======================================
Han Solo: Great shot, kid, that was one in a million!
no han, it was ONLY one shot out of one......not one out of a million
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Princess Leia: This is some rescue. When you came in here, didn't you have a plan for getting out?
no really leia, we didn't make any plans to get you out, we just came up with half a plan....duh
-------------------------------------------------------------------
| Han Solo: |
well han, hokey lines and metaphors/analogies aren't really much better are they?
--------------------------------------------------------------
| Luke Skywalker: |
i'm not sure, but is luke trying to channel yoda-speak here? how about, 'this planet is the farthest from
the bright center of the universe'........................
----------------------------------------------------------------
| Darth Vader: | |
| Ben "Obi-Wan" Kenobi: |
gee ben, i'm sure Darth vader was really insulted by that snappy come-back...............i can almost hear the rim shot after he said it..
----------------------------------------------------------------
| Darth Vader: |
oh no really, ben is old? say it isn't so !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Red Six: I got a problem here.
Biggs: Eject!
Red Six: I can hold it.
Biggs: Pull up!
Red Six: No, I'm all right... ahhh!
gee, don't get too descriptive now
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Stormtrooper: Close the blast doors!
[the doors shut just after Han and Chewie run through the doorway, locking the Stormtroopers out]
Stormtrooper: Open the blast doors! Open the blast doors!
can't seem to make up your mind now, can you?
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Princess Leia: The Imperial Senate will not sit still for this. When they hear you've attacked a diplomatic...
Darth Vader: Don't act so surprised, your highness. You weren't on any mercy mission this time. Several transmissions were beamed to this ship by rebel spies. I want to know what happened to the plans they sent you.
Princess Leia: I don't know what you're talking about. I am a member of the Imperial Senate on a diplomatic mission to Alderaan...
Darth Vader: You are part of the Rebel Alliance and a traitor! Take her away!
well gee Darth vader, if you already knew all that , why did you bother asking in the first place,
and why don't you just use the force, and get the answers without all the drama???????????
----------------------------------------------------------------
Stormtrooper Officer: Someone *was* in the pod. The tracks go off in this direction.
Stormtrooper: [holding up a ring of metal] Look, sir: Droids.
someone? what do you mean someon? if it was a 'droid', it wasn't really a person was it?
do you really have to make it that obvious? when they were sent down, they knew that
no persons were on the escape pod, since there was no life readings on it?
did they not get the message? and then they have to tell us that its 'droids'?????????
------------------------------------------------------------------
Uncle Owen: Did he take those two new droids with him?
Aunt Beru: I think so.
Uncle Owen: Well, he'd better have those units in the South Ridge repaired by midday, or there'll be hell to pay.
how do you have 'hell' to pay? and where would you pay it? and what would you pay it with???????????
---------------------------------------------------------------
Han Solo: Where did you dig up that old fossil?
Luke: Ben is a great man.
Han Solo: Yeah, great at getting us into trouble.
yeah, han, but you're not so great at repeating dialogue or coming up with new lines
-------------------------------------------------------------
[approaching the Death Star]
Luke: I have a very bad feeling about this.
i have a very bad feeling we'll be hearing this line a few hundred more times in the future
--------------------------------------------------------------
leia “Aren’t you a little short for a stormtrooper?”
no really, i passed the stormtrooper fitting, what do you think? what difference does his height make?
==================================
Han Solo: Damn fool, I knew you were going to say that.
Obi-Wan: Who's the more foolish: The fool, or the fool who follows him?
i don't know, who comes up with more vague lines, that don't really amount to more than platitudes?
===========================================
C-3PO: We've stopped. Wake up! Wake up!
[R2D2 beeps]
C-3PO: We're doomed.
yes, you're doomed to repeating more lines of dialogue like this...
-------------------------------
Luke: I'm Luke Skywalker. I'm here to rescue you.
Princess Leia: You're who?
are you just hard of hearing? or did you miss the first part............'luke skywalker'..
----------------------------
ok , you get the idea...............................you just have to consider
that things / speech / drama was a lot different back in the 70's
compared to now...
don't get me wrong , i LOVE 'star wars' for all its flaws, corny dialogue,
mistakes, matte lines, imperfect effects, flaws, and everything else
that adds character to it..
pointing out random fragments of bad dialogue from the prequels
is easily just as pointless.........
later
-1
[no GOUT in CED?-> GOUT CED]
Darth Vader in Revenge of the Sith yelling: "NOOOOOO!"
James Earl Jones turns to George.
"What is this George? I went from cool lines like "I find your lack of faith disturbing" to this melodramatic crap."
George: "Well, you see I wanted to express the feeling of..."
James Earl Jones: Ok, ok. Get my paycheck ready.
To Negative 1: umm, ok.
Hey Negative1, those lines you just typed from Star Wars 77 actually got an Academy Award Nomination for Best Screenplay that year! Who's the more fool the fool who takes the time to type all of those lines on a Message Board or the fool who just enjoys the movie:)
In all seriousness Negative 1, you can always debate what is and what isn't corny in every movie, but when you have lines like, "Jar Jar you in deep doo doo!" That shit is literally written for a 5 year old, and is embarrasing that Lucas would put something like that in a SW movie.
Star Wars is one of your favorite movies, negative? Do like it more or less than the prequels?
What have you been doing since this thread was originally posted? Watching the movie and writing down lines you felt you could criticize?
the negative one said:
Luke: But what if this Obi-Wan comes looking for him?
Uncle Owen: He won't. I don't think he exists anymore. He died about the same time as your father.
Luke: He knew my father?
how does someone 'die' about the same time as someone else? either they died at the same time, or they didn't?
What? Are you being serious?
People can die "about the same time" in all sorts of ways. For instance, soldiers who “died” in World War II can be said to have “died about the same time” (since even a period of a few years can be “about the same time” in comparison to the 65+ years that have passed since then). I'm not sure why you'd have trouble understanding that.
the negative one said:
Governor Tarkin: The Jedi are extinct, their fire has gone out of the universe. You, my friend, are all that's left of their religion.
'their fire has gone out of the universe' ? is that supposed to be poetic?
Yes, and it's very good poetry. Why?
the negative one said:
General Tagge: What of the Rebellion? If the Rebels have obtained a complete technical reading of this station, it is possible, however unlikely, they might find a weakness and exploit it.
what is this, monty python? how much more explanation do you need?
Uhh, it’s too much explanation?
This wasn't in the movie as a way to explain anything to the audience (if that’s what you mean). It was to show how arrogant the empire was about the station's lack of vulnerabilities. Otherwise, military commanders discuss and explain strategy to each other all the time (so if that’s what you mean then you’re being dumb). Whatever you meant, there is no problem with the way this line explains anything.
The line is a bit long and goofy, if you ask me, but it's nothing so bad that I'd cringe or laugh at it. It's more than acceptable and realistic.
the negative one said:
Obi-Wan: Yes. I was once a Jedi knight, the same as your father.
Luke: I wish I'd known him.
Obi-Wan: He was the best star pilot in the galaxy, and a cunning warrior. I understand that you've become quite a good pilot yourself.
come on obi-wan, get to the point......................why do keep changing the subject so much, just stick to one thing, why the unnecessary speculation about whether luke is a good pilot or not?
First, this exchange of dialogue is great. It makes sense, it sounds good, it’s interesting, and it's well-acted.
Otherwise, your question is absurd. Where did Obiwan change the subject in some terrible way? Everything he says seems logically connected to me. I can easily see an old man reminiscing about an old friend and then talking to his old friend's son about how he is a similarly good pilot. You can't see that?!
the negative one said:
C-3PO: And I am C-3PO, human-cyborg relations. And this is my counterpart R2D2.
no really? and we couldn't figure that out by ourselves, did you have tell us that?
Luke did not know who C-3PO or R2D2 were. I don't even think the movie mentioned their names before that point, so even the audience didn't know that. So, in your mind, what's wrong him telling "us" that?
the negative one said:
Darth Vader: Several fighters have broken off from the main group. Come with me!
[the pilots follow Vader to the hangar]
duh? do they really need to be told that enemy fighters are going to blow them up?
He didn't tell them that enemy fighters were “going to blow them up.” Where on earth did you get that from?
He tells them that some "fighters" are doing something threatening and then he orders them to come and help him stop them. It’s very simple and straightforward. It should easily make sense to you (since it makes sense to everybody else).
the negative one said:
Imperial Officer: We count 30 Rebel ships, Lord Vader, but they're so small they're avoiding our turbolasers!
Darth Vader: We'll have to destroy them ship to ship. Get the crews to their fighters.
i guess 'turbolasers' are somehow 'faster' than regular laser guns????????
Turbolasers are heavy canons designed to target capital ships. The turrets were big and therefore weren't mobile enough to hit small fightercraft. (You seriously didn't understand that? I guess movies do have to explain everything for some people. Wow.)
the negative one said:
Luke: You don't believe in the Force, do you?
Han Solo: Kid, I've flown from one side of this galaxy to the other, and I've seen a lot of strange stuff, but I've never seen *anything* to make me believe that there's one all-powerful Force controlling everything. 'Cause no mystical energy field controls *my* destiny. It's all a lot of simple tricks and nonsense.
gee, Han, have you really seen everything in the galaxy? why do tell Luke later on 'may the force be with you'????? who said it was a mystical energy field?
He never said he saw “everything.” Han Solo is simply a cynical guy who only believes in what he's seen. And . . . wow . . . he says "may the force be with you" later as a way to be nice to Luke (and to show that maybe he was starting to believe in the "nonsense"). (I can't believe I have to actually tell you this stuff. A two-year-old should be able to grasp it.)
the negative one said:
Han Solo: Great shot, kid, that was one in a million!
no han, it was ONLY one shot out of one......not one out of a million
Uhh . . . what?! You do understand what a statistic is . . . right?
Han Solo is using the statistic of "one in a million" as a way to exaggerate how difficult the "shot" was as he throws praise at Luke.
the negative one said:
Princess Leia: This is some rescue. When you came in here, didn't you have a plan for getting out?
no really leia, we didn't make any plans to get you out, we just came up with half a plan....duh
Actually, they didn't have a detailed plan to get her out. They were improvising as they went. And, even if they had had a plan, it obviously wasn’t working and she's a bit cranky.
the negative one said:
Han Solo: Hokey religions, and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side.
well han, hokey lines and metaphors/analogies aren't really much better are they?
There's no metaphor or analogy in that line. I don't get why you're saying that there is. It’s imply a good piece of crass dialogue being well acted. It illustrates an important part of Han Solo's philosophy in life. (Great to quote.)
the negative one said:
Luke Skywalker: If there's a bright center to the universe, you're on the planet that is farthest from.
i'm not sure, but is luke trying to channel yoda-speak here? how about, 'this planet is the farthest from the bright center of the universe'
That's not a grammatical error that puts the predicate before the subject (as Yoda would do in the PT). It's a highly poetic way to structure a statement of how far out the planet is. It stresses that the planet is out in the middle of nowhere.
the negative one said:
Darth Vader: I've been waiting for you Obi-Wan. We meet again, at last. The circle is now complete; when I left you, I was but the learner, now I am the master.
Ben "Obi-Wan" Kenobi: Only a master of evil, Darth.
gee ben, i'm sure Darth vader was really insulted by that snappy come-back...............i can almost hear the rim shot after he said it..
That line wasn't meant to be “snappy.” It's actually one of the best lines in the whole movie. It shows how Ben is defiant to Darth’s evil and confident about the inevitable triumph of goodness. Star Wars was so fantastic in its time because it pitted good versus evil (like an old fashioned legend would have). I can't believe you'd actually criticize a golden line like this. (Though, it definitely shows where you must be coming from I guess.)
the negative one said:
Darth Vader: Your powers are weak, old man.
oh no really, ben is old? say it isn't so !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
He was obviously taunting him, slow mind. (Woops, I just called you something obvious. Better call the dialogue police!) ;)
the negative one said:
Red Six: I got a problem here.
Biggs: Eject!
Red Six: I can hold it.
Biggs: Pull up!
Red Six: No, I'm all right... ahhh!
gee, don't get too descriptive now
Well, when your life is on the line in a situation as tense and as fast as a dogfight, or the life your friend is endangered during such a situation, we'll see how much time you devote to being "descriptive." In the meantime, your criticism of this line is worthless and laughable.
the negative one said:
Stormtrooper: Close the blast doors!
[the doors shut just after Han and Chewie run through the doorway, locking the Stormtroopers out]
Stormtrooper: Open the blast doors! Open the blast doors!
can't seem to make up your mind now, can you?
First, that line isn't in every audio mix of the films. Second, I like it a lot. It was written to be funny and it is.
the negative one said:
Princess Leia: The Imperial Senate will not sit still for this. When they hear you've attacked a diplomatic...
Darth Vader: Don't act so surprised, your highness. You weren't on any mercy mission this time. Several transmissions were beamed to this ship by rebel spies. I want to know what happened to the plans they sent you.
Princess Leia: I don't know what you're talking about. I am a member of the Imperial Senate on a diplomatic mission to Alderaan...
Darth Vader: You are part of the Rebel Alliance and a traitor! Take her away!
well gee Darth vader, if you already knew all that , why did you bother asking in the first place, and why don't you just use the force, and get the answers without all the drama???????????
the negative one said:
Stormtrooper Officer: Someone *was* in the pod. The tracks go off in this direction.
Stormtrooper: [holding up a ring of metal] Look, sir: Droids.
someone? what do you mean someon? if it was a 'droid', it wasn't really a person was it? do you really have to make it that obvious? when they were sent down, they knew that no persons were on the escape pod, since there was no life readings on it? did they not get the message? and then they have to tell us that its 'droids'?????????
The first trooper doesn't know it was a droid. One statement came after the other. You can follow that, right?
This sequence is only seconds long. It's certainly not good, but it is so short and so incredibly unimportant that it is not something anyone spends their time thinking about directly. But, even then, as far as an explanatory scene goes, it's not as bad you're making it sound. Plus, the tiny scene enhances the rest of the movie by making viewers worry about the fact that the Empire will be looking for the droids. It works for what it does.
the negative one said:
Uncle Owen: Did he take those two new droids with him?
Aunt Beru: I think so.
Uncle Owen: Well, he'd better have those units in the South Ridge repaired by midday, or there'll be hell to pay.
how do you have 'hell' to pay? and where would you pay it? and what would you pay it with???????????
the negative one said:
Han Solo: Where did you dig up that old fossil?
Luke: Ben is a great man.
Han Solo: Yeah, great at getting us into trouble.
yeah, han, but you're not so great at repeating dialogue or coming up with new lines
So, you think he's neither good with repetition nor improvisation? If so, you’re contradicting yourself.
Uhh, otherwise, I don't even get why you're quoting this. The line is great and wonderfully acted. (It’s very fun to quote because it’s memorable and likable.)
the negative one said:
[approaching the Death Star]
Luke: I have a very bad feeling about this.
i have a very bad feeling we'll be hearing this line a few hundred more times in the future
Maybe Luke is in touch with his feelings and often speaks before thinking. Also, people don't ever repeat themselves where you come from?
This line isn't great, but it’s realistic, easy to overlook, and it works for the movie. (It’s also fun to quote when I’m being goofy with friends. Goofy can sometimes be endearing.)
the negative one said:
leia “Aren’t you a little short for a stormtrooper?”
no really, i passed the stormtrooper fitting, what do you think? what difference does his height make?
He was shorter than most stormtroopers.
This line's not really what I'd call a good one, but it's not laughably bad (as a lot of the stuff in the PT is) and it's certainly not important to the story in any way.
the negative one said:
Han Solo: Damn fool, I knew you were going to say that.
Obi-Wan: Who's the more foolish: The fool, or the fool who follows him?
i don't know, who comes up with more vague lines, that don't really amount to more than platitudes?
That line is one of the best in Star Wars! Its sarcastically pious nature was why Han called him an "old fossil" right after that. Also, any potential that line had for being cheesy was eliminated by the way it was brilliantly acted by Sir Alec Guinness.
the negative one said:
C-3PO: We've stopped. Wake up! Wake up!
[R2D2 beeps]
C-3PO: We're doomed.
yes, you're doomed to repeating more lines of dialogue like this...
This line certainly isn't great, but it's not supposed to be. It's totally believable since C-3PO is established as an overly-dramatic boob from the very beginning of the movie. The reason we accept that personality is because he's a robot.
the negative one said:
Luke: I'm Luke Skywalker. I'm here to rescue you.
Princess Leia: You're who?
are you just hard of hearing? or did you miss the first part............'luke skywalker'..
Uhm . . . are you saying you wouldn't be disoriented from sitting in a prison cell for hours on end?
I find it totally believable that someone would ask that question of some guy who just barged into her cell, stared at her, and then took off a storm trooper helmet and said he was there to rescue her. Her question was not because she didn't hear him, or because she missed something, it's more combination of the fact that she doesn't recognize the name with the fact that she’s in a state of shocked disbelief.
the negative one said:
you just have to consider that things / speech / drama was a lot different back in the 70's compared to now...
Hardly. Speech hasn't changed that much in 25 years. If anything, the original Star Wars sounds better than most movies from today.
the negative one said:
don't get me wrong , i LOVE 'star wars' for all its flaws, corny dialogue, mistakes, matte lines, imperfect effects, flaws, and
everything else that adds character to it..
Well, at least you like something.
the negative one said:
pointing out random fragments of bad dialogue from the prequels is easily just as pointless....
Mocking bad dialogue from the prequels is as pointless as . . . what? As pointless as mocking lines you just singled out? As I've just shown, your mocking made no sense and was far more pointless. Epic fail.
"Now all Lucas has to do is make a cgi version of himself. It will be better than the original and fit his original vision." - skyjedi2005
CO said:
Hey Negative1, those lines you just typed from Star Wars 77 actually got an Academy Award Nomination for Best Screenplay that year!
Who's the more fool the fool who takes the time to type all of those lines on a Message Board or the fool who just enjoys the movie:)
In all seriousness Negative 1, you can always debate what is and what isn't corny in every movie, but when you have lines like, "Jar Jar you in deep doo doo!" That shit is literally written for a 5 year old, and is embarrasing that Lucas would put something like that in a SW movie.
oh gee, i'm soooooooooooooooo impressed...................an academy nomination?
well, considering how 'annie hall' won, and its competition was 'the goodbye girl'..........what did star wars end up with ? sound/special effects etc...
yeah, dont' forget who also got nominated for BEST Director that year : George Lucas
right next to my bed, i have a small reference book that i look at from time to time:
-----------------
its a fun short little book, the quotable star wars.............i've always found fun/thoughtful/good quotes in it..
1) i NEVER SAID there weren't childish or cringe-worthy moments in the prequels, i've never denied it..............................but there are EQUALLY BAD IF NOT WORSE
moments all throughout the original trilogy also..
2) guess what, i was 10 years old when i saw star wars, and even back then i knew a lot of that stuff was written at my level, because i could understand it,
yeah C3P0 was embarrassing to watch, r2d2 wandered around desperately trying to communicate, luke bumbled his way through the dialogue, leia and han
hammed it up..................and darth vader over-acted, along with the rest of the 'british' actors..................and just how did the british accents survive that long?
gee, i guess modern cursing, sayings, and culture (not to mention the hair cuts), didn't date this movie as classic 70's fare.................
so whats your point about childishness, target audiences, and corniness?
i guess you could say we're both right...........
'from a certain point of view'.......................................................[groan]...
later
-1
[no GOUT in CED?-> GOUT CED]
Tiptup said:
Star Wars is one of your favorite movies, negative? Do like it more or less than the prequels?
What have you been doing since this thread was originally posted? Watching the movie and writing down lines you felt you could criticize?
tiptup,
thanks for the detailed explanations,
but i was only being half-serious about those lines...
no, i did not watch the movie again, i just pulled up a reference, and commented on them...
i think either you completely missed the point of what i was trying to show.............
nothing has to be completely literal, does it now?
don't you think i know what was meant, and intended from those lines.............
look, maybe i'm not good as marking my own sarcasm, snideness, or just being silly.................[its hard to do that on a forum].............
i guess that what all those little faces and symbols are for (smileys, i think they're called)....
i don't need to post a rebuttal, because one is not needed...................................
i was a child when i saw the movie originally, and a lot of lines did STICK out to me as being CHILDISH and SILLY,
retroactively looking back as an adult can either polarize your view back to over-analyzing it (like you did),
or reducing it to glaring simplicity (like i did).....
i'd call it a stand off..
later
-1
[no GOUT in CED?-> GOUT CED]
negative1 said:
there are EQUALLY BAD IF NOT WORSE moments all throughout the original trilogy also..
Not even close. The worst moments of the PT have nothing "equally" as bad in the original trilogy. Don't make me laugh.
"Now all Lucas has to do is make a cgi version of himself. It will be better than the original and fit his original vision." - skyjedi2005
negative1 said:
oh gee, i'm soooooooooooooooo impressed...................an academy nomination?
well, considering how 'annie hall' won, and its competition was 'the goodbye girl'..........what did star wars end up with ? sound/special effects etc...
yeah, dont' forget who also got nominated for BEST Director that year : George Lucas
right next to my bed, i have a small reference book that i look at from time to time:
-----------------
its a fun short little book, the quotable star wars.............i've always found fun/thoughtful/good quotes in it..
1) i NEVER SAID there weren't childish or cringe-worthy moments in the prequels, i've never denied it..............................but there are EQUALLY BAD IF NOT WORSE
moments all throughout the original trilogy also..
2) guess what, i was 10 years old when i saw star wars, and even back then i knew a lot of that stuff was written at my level, because i could understand it,
yeah C3P0 was embarrassing to watch, r2d2 wandered around desperately trying to communicate, luke bumbled his way through the dialogue, leia and han
hammed it up..................and darth vader over-acted, along with the rest of the 'british' actors..................and just how did the british accents survive that long?
gee, i guess modern cursing, sayings, and culture (not to mention the hair cuts), didn't date this movie as classic 70's fare.................
so whats your point about childishness, target audiences, and corniness?
i guess you could say we're both right...........
'from a certain point of view'.......................................................[groan]...
later
-1
Negative one, Annie Hall is a classic, IMO, so StarWars lost to some pretty good competition. I think the Academy Awards are a joke these days, Crash? Chicago? But in the 70's, the Best Picture was always a great picture: Patton in 1971, The Godfather I in 1972, The Sting in 1973, The Godfather II in 1974, One Flew Overs the Cukoos Nest in 1975, Rocky in 1976, Annie Hall in 1977, The Deer Hunter in 1978. Those pictures all hold up today, so the Academy had alot of credibilty before it became a marketing ploy to win like Shakespeare in Love won over Saving Private Ryan.
Now I am not saying that Star Wars is Platoon or Schindlers List, but there is a definite more adult tone in Star Wars and Empire, compared to Jedi and the PT. Trust me I was a kid too when SW came out in 1977, but there is a difference, and somehow SW got a bit more on the kiddy side in Jedi. You can throw lines out like, "Laugh it up fuzzbull." but the bottom line is it is a pretty funny line for the characters that are established, and it isn't forced like the PT movies. What I am saying that is that you had an actor like Harrison Ford who could say funny stuff in the SW universe, and it would be funny. Then you have all this forced humor in the PT with Hayden & Ewan, that just comes off as unfunny, mainly because it was put in there specifically for a laugh, rather then let the character be themselves.
As for C3PO, I disagree with you, the whole Geonosis scene with him with his head off is awful not because what is said, mainly again because it is forced and totally out of place, as Lucas put it in there to try to get a laugh, compared to a part in ESB when they are going through the asteroid field where his annoyance is part of the scene as he honestly thinks Han Solo is crazy for going in there.
There are two scenes in Star Wars that come to mind where C3PO is used totally different then he did later in the films. The first one was the scene in Bens Hutt where Luke learns about his father. What is the only word C3PO utters, "If you don't mind sir, I am going to shut down for a while." That was Lucas understanding this wasn't the time for annoying C3PO, because it is an important and serious scene, and he doesn't want C3PO mucking it all up.
Then the ending when they attack the deathstar, does C3PO say anything as it cuts to him and Princess Leia? No, it would take all the drama out if you heard him mutter anything, so C3PO and Leia just stare at each other the whole time to drum up the tension.
Now fast forward to TPM, and Padme meets Anakin for the first time, should be an iconic scene, but what is going on in the backround? Jar Jar doing his Three Stooges routine as he is bumbling and fumbling all around.
You tell me which one catered to kids more?
negative1 said:
1) i NEVER SAID there weren't childish or cringe-worthy moments in the prequels, i've never denied it..............................but there are EQUALLY BAD IF NOT WORSE
moments all throughout the original trilogy also..
2) guess what, i was 10 years old when i saw star wars, and even back then i knew a lot of that stuff was written at my level, because i could understand it,
yeah C3P0 was embarrassing to watch, r2d2 wandered around desperately trying to communicate, luke bumbled his way through the dialogue, leia and han
hammed it up..................and darth vader over-acted, along with the rest of the 'british' actors..................and just how did the british accents survive that long?
gee, i guess modern cursing, sayings, and culture (not to mention the hair cuts), didn't date this movie as classic 70's fare.................
so whats your point about childishness, target audiences, and corniness?
i guess you could say we're both right...........
'from a certain point of view'.......................................................[groan]...
later
-1
1)Equally bad if not worse dialogue in the OT? If those quotes are all you could come up with, then I am officially declaring that belief a bunch of crap. Exactly which one of those lines do you see as equally bad or worse than "Icky, icky, poo." or "Wessa in big doo doo now"? Here is something fun for you to do -1, Look bad at your post about crappy dialogue in ANH, and rewrite each of those phrases in an un crappy way. Perhaps if you show us how much better written they could have been, then we might agree with you. Along those same lines, feel free to post any PT dialogue you feel is crappy, and I will be happy to rewrite.
2)I was younger than ten when I saw Star Wars and I understood the movie pretty well, that doesn't mean it was written at my level. Plenty of adults saw it and thought it was brilliant. When I was 14 I read John Grisham's "A Time to Kill", I understood everything that went on in that book, but it does not mean it was written for 14 year olds. Things can be made to appeal to multiple age groups, Star Wars is one of these things.
Also, it is not fair to judge the dialogue on its date, this movie was made in the seventies and should be held up to seventies standards. You can't argue that the dialogue sucks because it is using lines that we don't use anymore at present day, when the PT, written in present day uses crap we'd never use anytime.
As for the Brittish accent surviving that long, just how did the American accent survive that long? Depending on your side of the pond, this question can work both ways. Just how did the English language survive that long? And when we are talking about surviving that long, it seems you believe SW to be in the future when it takes place in a different galaxy in the past. Why would they have Brittish or American accents at all? Why would they speak English? What kind of accents would you have them use?
"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape
negative1 said:
no, i did not watch the movie again, i just pulled up a reference, and commented on them...
That explains why many of them were quoted incorrectly. If you go back and watch the movie, you'll find that many of them were actually considerably different in the movie than how they were listed in your reference. Even considering that, I'm surprised you'd find ANY of those lines poorly conceived... most of them strike me as very well-written dialogue.
And, one of those British accents you so mockingly deride earned an Academy Award nomination. By contrast, ROTS garnered an impressive Golden Rasberry award in this same category. I'm surprised you'd single out Alec Guiness and Peter Cushing thusly... they surely are the two finest actors in the entire "saga", and in my opinion turn in by far the best performances. But you're entitled to your opinion.
"Close the blast doors!"
Puggo’s website | Rescuing Star Wars
CO said:
There are two scenes in Star Wars that come to mind where C3PO is used totally different then he did later in the films. The first one was the scene in Bens Hutt where Luke learns about his father. What is the only word C3PO utters, "If you don't mind sir, I am going to shut down for a while." That was Lucas understanding this wasn't the time for annoying C3PO, because it is an important and serious scene, and he doesn't want C3PO mucking it all up.
Then the ending when they attack the deathstar, does C3PO say anything as it cuts to him and Princess Leia? No, it would take all the drama out if you heard him mutter anything, so C3PO and Leia just stare at each other the whole time to drum up the tension.
Now fast forward to TPM, and Padme meets Anakin for the first time, should be an iconic scene, but what is going on in the backround? Jar Jar doing his Three Stooges routine as he is bumbling and fumbling all around.
You tell me which one catered to kids more?
i'm not sure why you singled out C-3P0 to be used as a redeeming character...
why don't we just fast forward to 'the empire strikes back' to see how pointless, annoying, and grating C-3PO was?
[list to be posted shortly, and no i'm not kidding about this.]............................
you don't have to go far to see the deterioration of the character that really wasn't that serious to begin with in the
first place.... c3po whining and complaining about every little issue, flailing around, aggravating other characters etc..
c3p0=jar jar to some extent wouldn't you think? yes there were other comedic moments, and light-heartedness,
but dont' we need the archetypal comic in the story to relieve the seriousness, and stress?
maybe that's why i always preferred r2d2 any day over c3po,
that character actually did something useful (like saving all their lives several times over).....without being annoying...
later
-1
[no GOUT in CED?-> GOUT CED]
Puggo - Jar Jar's Yoda said:
That explains why many of them were quoted incorrectly. If you go back and watch the movie, you'll find that many of them were actually considerably different in the movie than how they were listed in your reference. Even considering that, I'm surprised you'd find ANY of those lines poorly conceived... most of them strike me as very well-written dialogue.
And, one of those British accents you so mockingly deride earned an Academy Award nomination. By contrast, ROTS garnered an impressive Golden Rasberry award in this same category. I'm surprised you'd single out Alec Guiness and Peter Cushing thusly... they surely are the two finest actors in the entire "saga", and in my opinion turn in by far the best performances. But you're entitled to your opinion.
puggo,
rather than debate about what is worthwhile dialog, again, don't you think this post-retrospective analysis has tainted both of our ideas of
what we considered to be critical dialogue? ...........................once again, when i first heard the dialogue many years ago, it struck me as odd,
that some characters spoke 'differently' in their intonations, and vocal cadences compared to the mostly 'american' voices of the other characters,
yes Sir Alec Guinness had a distinguished career, and so did Peter Cushing, but do you think a 10 year old takes that into account when watching
a sci-fi spectacular????????????????????
granted once again, understanding the context of the movie, the characters, the actors used, etc.....yes you can justify those conclusions NOW...
but what about back then? to me , they still sound jarring, take the characters out of context, and place them back in the reality of this world,
instead of being some foreign, mysterious, future era............i loved the alien characters, and sounds, and all the other touches though, but i
could hardly imagine the patience of anyone to make this movie entirely in a future dialect, and have it subtitled (hmmmmmmmmmmm.....sounds
like a fanedit project)..............
later
-1
[no GOUT in CED?-> GOUT CED]
negative1 said:
i'm not sure why you singled out C-3P0 to be used as a redeeming character...
why don't we just fast forward to 'the empire strikes back' to see how pointless, annoying, and grating C-3PO was?
[list to be posted shortly, and no i'm not kidding about this.]............................
you don't have to go far to see the deterioration of the character that really wasn't that serious to begin with in the
first place.... c3po whining and complaining about every little issue, flailing around, aggravating other characters etc..
c3p0=jar jar to some extent wouldn't you think? yes there were other comedic moments, and light-heartedness,
but dont' we need the archetypal comic in the story to relieve the seriousness, and stress?
maybe that's why i always preferred r2d2 any day over c3po,
that character actually did something useful (like saving all their lives several times over).....without being annoying...
later
Wait....I thought we were talking about Star Wars from 1977? Your whole post is been about how Star Wars from 1977 was as childish as the PT movies, and I have given you several scene comparisons to SW and the PT, and it is largely different. I still do think that SW & ESB are made in a more adult tone, but Lucas directed SW and the PT movies, so they are the best examples of seeing how someone had changed through years, as Kersh and Marquand directed the OT sequels, so they essentially had their own style.
My point is you really need to watch the OOT version of SW again, and then watch the PT, and let me know if you don't see a huge tonal different, as the PT is made for kids, and SW'77 is not made for kids, but kids can enjoy it, and that is the difference. The 1977 version is a very gritty version, and as I said, kids can enjoy, but it is not really made for kids. But as you move on with the series, especially when it gets to Jedi, it does get kiddy, and the dialogue gets more ridiculous. Just think of Han shooting first, Luke looking at 2 burnt skeletons, Vader force choking one of the generals on the Death Star, stuff like that in 1977 was not MADE for little kiddies to enjoy.
Come on Negative1, you and I were there in 1977, Lucas did not make this movie thinking kids like us would show up, and buy all the merchandise, as you remember they didn't even have enough action figures for the Christmas of '77, as I remember getting an empty box of Luke Skywalker and waiting til April of 1978 for it to come in the mail. Lucas made ESB more dark in 1980, and kids like me didn't like it at the time, and he realized he had to tone it down or he feared losing that whole audience for the next movie, hence why ROTJ & the PT really are made for kids.
So a future dialect (even though, as C3PX stated it is set a long time ago and NOT in the future) means no British accents then, just your American one? Wow, talk about a superiority complex. So all the British accents should be re-dubbed or subtitled because they "sound jarring, take the characters out of context, and place them back in the reality of this world"? Don't make me laugh. So what about the American accents then? Why don't they do the same thing then, because as far as i know the American accent actually exists in our world now.
I was also 10 in '77 when i saw Star Wars and i understood it perfectly well and had no problems hearing the other actors speaking American, being a Brit myself.
You certainly can't compare the humour of 3PO (OT version only NOT the pathetic PT version) to Jar Jar. They are two totally different styles. 3PO's humour was there as light relief and was used at the right moments ,never ruining an important scene whereas Jar Jars was thrust upon us just for the hell of it, and as CO said , the important scene where Padme & Anakin first meet has Jar Jar totally ruining it with the pathetic attempt at slapstick
None of the corny lines in the OT even come close to being as cringe worthy as the dialogue from the PT
lets use a seduction/ love scene as an example:
ESB Han & Leia:
HAN: Hey, Your Worship, I'm only trying to help.
LEIA:Would you please stop calling me that?
HAN: Sure, Leia.
LEIA: Oh, you make it so difficult sometimes.
HAN: I do, I really do. You could be a little nicer, though. Come on, admit it. Sometimes you think I'm all
right.
LEIA: Occasionally, maybe...when you aren't
acting like a scoundrel.
HAN: Scoundrel? Scoundrel? I like the sound of that.
LEIA: Stop that.
HAN: Stop what?
LEIA: Stop that! My hands are dirty.
HAN: My hands are dirty, too. What are you afraid of?
LEIA: Afraid?
HAN: You're trembling.
LEIA: I'm not trembling.
HAN: You like me because I'm a scoundrel. There aren't enough
scoundrels in your life.
LEIA: I happen to like nice men.
HAN: I'm a nice man.
LEIA: No, you're not. You're...
ok now lets compare this to the AOTC fireplace scene
ANAKIN: From the moment I met you... all those years ago... not a day has gone by when I haven't thought of you. and now that I'm with you again... I'm in agony. The closer I get to you, the worse it gets. The thought of not being with you-- I can't breathe. I'm haunted by the kiss that you should never have given me. My heart is beating... hoping that that kiss will not become a scar. You are in my very soul... tormenting me. What can I do? I will do anything that you ask. If you are suffering as much as I am, please, tell me.
PADME: I can't. We can't. It's... just not possible.
ANAKIN: Anything is possible, Padmé. Listen to me.
PADME: No, you listen. We live in a real world. Come back to it. You're studying to become a Jedi. I'm-- I'm a senator. If you follow your thoughts through to conclusion... it'll take us to a place we cannot go... regardless of the way we feel about each other.
Then you do feel something.
Ok, ok that's about as much as i can stomach. Notice how everything in the PT is so long-winded almost like some cheesy Danielle Steel novel. Its pretty gut wrenching. Try to find a scene of this cringe worthy nature and long-winded approach in the OT and there isn't one.
In the Phantom Menace era, LUCAS was the one constantly saying how risky and different Jar Jar (as a character not just technically) was from anything before, so no, threepio just ain't the same thing. In 2001-2002, leading up to Clones, LUCAS was the first guy to go around emphasizing that this type of cheeseball romance was NEW to Star Wars. That was when the romance was being played up to get more actual GIRLS to see a Star wars movie.
adywan said:
So a future dialect (even though, as C3PX stated it is set a long time ago and NOT in the future) means no British accents then, just your American one? Wow, talk about a superiority complex.
I'm not sure, but I think Negative1 is British.
Mielr said:
adywan said:
So a future dialect (even though, as C3PX stated it is set a long time ago and NOT in the future) means no British accents then, just your American one? Wow, talk about a superiority complex.
I'm not sure, but I think Negative1 is British.
Then that makes his statements even more confusing
Puggo - Jar Jar's Yoda said:
negative1 said:
no, i did not watch the movie again, i just pulled up a reference, and commented on them...
That explains why many of them were quoted incorrectly. If you go back and watch the movie, you'll find that many of them were actually considerably different in the movie than how they were listed in your reference.
No it doesn't explain that, actually. More than half of negative one's stated problems with the lines were plainly wrong even in text form. He misunderstood clear figures of speech and clear logic in some really odd ways.
The lack of seeing the rest of the lines in action may explain his problems there, but even then, he had to go into some very complicated reasoning to invent his problems. A more unbiased look at those lines might have been confused by them, but not to the degree negative one tried to argue.
"Now all Lucas has to do is make a cgi version of himself. It will be better than the original and fit his original vision." - skyjedi2005
"Now, Viceroy, we will discuss a new treaty!"
Whoah-ho! Hold the phone! They're gonna' discuss a treaty!? WOW! I'm giddy with anticipation! In the words of the young Anakin Skywalker: Whoopie!
TheoOdo said:
"Now, Viceroy, we will discuss a new treaty!"
Whoah-ho! Hold the phone! They're gonna' discuss a treaty!? WOW! I'm giddy with anticipation! In the words of the young Anakin Skywalker: Whoopie!
Damn you just reminded me of the first time i ever cringed when watching a star wars film. In Wattos shop when anakin goes "Yippee". ...EEEEWW.
Little did i know there was so much more cringing to come. It never happened, and has never happened once during the OT during any dialogue.
Mielr said:
adywan said:
So a future dialect (even though, as C3PX stated it is set a long time ago and NOT in the future) means no British accents then, just your American one? Wow, talk about a superiority complex.
I'm not sure, but I think Negative1 is British.
sorry,
i'll clear that up right now.....(or maybe not)...i was born in an asian country,
lived in canada for about 10+ years, then moved to africa, the middle east,
and settled in the USA for about the last 3 decades.............i'm actually a
dual citizen of canada-us........................and on top of that i lived in texas,
and picked up a few speech mannerisms from there.................there are
you as confused as i am....??
and of course, i did see 'star wars' in Canada, where they have different accents also...............eh? ok hoser, get off my chesterfield ! (ha!)
later
-1
[no GOUT in CED?-> GOUT CED]
