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The original ending of Ponda Baba

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Interesting though a visible decapitation probably wouldn't have fared well in a PG Movie. I always found it interesting that the Lost Cut had the right arm on the floor but then they changed it for the final cut... Has it ever been revealed why?

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Either it was toned down, or more likely it just didn't come out looking right. I don't think they would've been able to make that look convincing with the first version of sabers.

VADER!? WHERE THE HELL IS MY MOCHA LATTE? -Palpy on a very bad day.
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Well, for what's it worth, I think that the original arm reaction shot looks convincing. Maybe they wanted to add the blood or make it look more human... I wonder how this would look in color.

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 (Edited)

You'd be amazed at what you could show in a PG film back then! ;)

Either it didn't look good, or it made Obi Wan look too brutal. One can imagine our favorite unruly Cantina drunks survived their run in with Ben, and limped away or were carried out.

I find the process of shooting inserts fascinating though. Great find, pittrek!

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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Wow, previously I'd only seen the one angle of the beheading. Very cool.

Keep Circulating the Tapes.

END OF LINE

(It hasn’t happened yet)

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I think Vader crushing that rebel's neck, and the unfortunate ending to the Lars' family cookout are more than proof of that. ;)

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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It must not have come out well since the decapitation isn't even in the Lost Cut..

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SilverWook said:


I think Vader crushing that rebel's neck, and the unfortunate ending to the Lars' family cookout are more than proof of that. ;)


And the OT was a "U" (Universal) in the UK.

DE

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 (Edited)

Well in the novelization and the screenplay was not Ben supposed cut the guy in half, into two gruesome sections from chin to groin.

This like Vader ripping the rebel troops arm off, or stormtroopers heads exploding were toned down for the film.

 

Since this scene is borrowed from one of Kurosawa's film where Mifune kills the guy with his Samurai sword the cut in half part was probably too graphic, and the spurt of blood etc.  In the Kurosawa film it is more implied you don't see the guy literally cut in two.

 

I cannot remember which of the two films the scene was in its either Yojimbo or Sanjuro.

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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Alan Dean Foster...I mean George...did write some gruesome details in the novel.

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 (Edited)

SilverWook said:

Alan Dean Foster...I mean George...did write some gruesome details in the novel.

Some which exist as Alex Tavoularis storyboards meaning the film was not always intended to be a childrens film.  As we are now told.

 

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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"PG" doesn't mean the same thing as it does now; PG movies weren't necessarily for kids, they just didn't have explicit sex, violence and profanity, the same as PG-13 movies today. You could show breasts (Airplane, right in a close up too) and have some pretty grusome violence (Jaws), with healthy mounts of mild profanity (most movies before the 80s...American Graffiti). In fact, some movies rated G back then had nudity (Andromeda Strain) and were intended mainly for adults (2001, Star Trek The Motion Picture).

That's why Star Wars, with its moderate cartoon violence and brief realistic violence, was rated G at first. A brief glimpse of a severed arm, some roasted corpses, exploding pilots and mildly unrealistic gunplay were things that it wasn't unusual to have in a G rated film. All a G rating was was that it just meant that if you brought kids it wouldn't be terribly objectionable. A PG film didn't mean it was for kids, it just meant it wasn't The Exorcist or Taxi Driver. Anyway, with all that Star Wars got a G rating, but in one of--or possible the--only exceptions to the ratings appeal process, Lucasfilm argued for a HIGHER rating. Their reason?

Star Wars wasn't supposed to be a kids film and they felt that by having it G rated it would be seen as juvenile by association. They wanted it to appeal to older people, so they asked the rating be raised to PG, the same rating shared by recent hit films like Jaws, Rocky and Logans Run (which had frontal nudity I think).

That's why it always seems weird the whole "Star Wars is for kids" thing. They changed the rating so it would be seen as for adults too. Parental Guidance meant the film wasn't going to be The Exorcist but as a parent you had to consider if you wanted your kids exposed to it. Heck, even after they introduced the PG-13 and parents felt like they were suddenly absolved from responsibility because they drew an arbitrary age line now, you still had PG movies like Beetlejuice where its really morbid stuff and sexual innuendo and the character yells the word FUCK. I'm sure there's another example of fuck being in a PG movie after 1984, but it just goes to show you that before the more modern era from the 90s onward, PG was seen as something that was for adults but that it could also be appropriate for some (older, usually) children to see.

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IIRC, Logan's Run had some nudity cut to get to a PG rating.

Dark Helmet dropped the F bomb in Spaceballs. (1987) I had heard somewhere if it was uttered twice in a film that bumped it up to a R in the pre PG-13 era.

Then there's the old story Spielberg had profanity in E.T. just to avoid the G rating.

Funny how when Episode III came out, there wasn't much of a fuss over it's PG-13 rating.

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I really hate the new rating system in the US, you can't even show some random boobies in a comedy anymore.

And in the time of greatest despair, there shall come a savior, and he shall be known as the Son of the Suns.

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Didn't we have this exact thread a few months ago?

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skyjedi2005 wrote: Well in the novelization and the screenplay was not Ben supposed cut the guy in half, into two gruesome sections from chin to groin.

http://starwarz.com/starkiller/2010/03/the-star-wars-from-the-adventures-of-luke-starkiller-third-draft/

Script Quote: "With an astounding agility, Old Ben’s laser-sword sparks to life and in a flash an arm lies on the floor. The rodent is cut in two and the giant, multiple-eyed Creature lies doubled, cut from chin to groin. Ben carefully and precisely turns off his laser-sword and replaces it on his utility belt. Luke, shaking and totally amazed at the old man’s abilities, attempts to stand. The entire fight has lasted only a matter of seconds. The cantina goes back to normal, although Ben is given a respectable amount of room at the bar. Luke, rubbing his bruised head, approaches the old man with new awe."

Novel Quote: "He never finished the yell. It turned into a blink. When the blink was finished, the man found himself lying prone against the bar, moaning and whimpering as he stared at the stump of an arm.

In between the start of his yell and the conclusion of the blink, the rodent-thing had been cleft cleanly in half down the middle, its two halves falling in opposite directions. The giant multiocular creature still stood staring, dazed, at the old human who was poised motionless before it, the shining lightsaber held over his head in a peculiar fashion. The creature's chrome pistol fired once, blowing a hole in the door. Then the torso peeled away as neatly as had the body of the rodent, its two cauterized sections falling in opposite directions to lie motionless on the cool stone."

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zombie84 said:

"PG" doesn't mean the same thing as it does now; PG movies weren't necessarily for kids, they just didn't have explicit sex, violence and profanity, the same as PG-13 movies today. You could show breasts (Airplane, right in a close up too) and have some pretty grusome violence (Jaws), with healthy mounts of mild profanity (most movies before the 80s...American Graffiti). In fact, some movies rated G back then had nudity (Andromeda Strain) and were intended mainly for adults (2001, Star Trek The Motion Picture).

That's why Star Wars, with its moderate cartoon violence and brief realistic violence, was rated G at first. A brief glimpse of a severed arm, some roasted corpses, exploding pilots and mildly unrealistic gunplay were things that it wasn't unusual to have in a G rated film. All a G rating was was that it just meant that if you brought kids it wouldn't be terribly objectionable. A PG film didn't mean it was for kids, it just meant it wasn't The Exorcist or Taxi Driver. Anyway, with all that Star Wars got a G rating, but in one of--or possible the--only exceptions to the ratings appeal process, Lucasfilm argued for a HIGHER rating. Their reason?

Star Wars wasn't supposed to be a kids film and they felt that by having it G rated it would be seen as juvenile by association. They wanted it to appeal to older people, so they asked the rating be raised to PG, the same rating shared by recent hit films like Jaws, Rocky and Logans Run (which had frontal nudity I think).

That's why it always seems weird the whole "Star Wars is for kids" thing. They changed the rating so it would be seen as for adults too. Parental Guidance meant the film wasn't going to be The Exorcist but as a parent you had to consider if you wanted your kids exposed to it. Heck, even after they introduced the PG-13 and parents felt like they were suddenly absolved from responsibility because they drew an arbitrary age line now, you still had PG movies like Beetlejuice where its really morbid stuff and sexual innuendo and the character yells the word FUCK. I'm sure there's another example of fuck being in a PG movie after 1984, but it just goes to show you that before the more modern era from the 90s onward, PG was seen as something that was for adults but that it could also be appropriate for some (older, usually) children to see.

Which is why I think the "[REDACTED] movie would have been great if it had been rated 'R'" comment* I see so much is just dumb.

Great movies are great movies, despite their ratings- not because of them.

*There are tonnes of movies about which I've heard this statement.  But for some reason, the only one coming to mind currently is Alien vs Predator.

IT'S MY TRILOGY, AND I WANT IT NOW!

"[George Lucas] rebooted the franchise in 1997 without telling anyone." -skyjedi2005

"Yeah, well, George says a lot of things..." a young 1997 xhonzi on RASSM

"They're my movies." -George Lucas. 19 people won oscars for their work on Star Wars (1977) and George Lucas wasn't one of them.

Rewrite the Prequels!

 

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xhonzi said:

Which is why I think the "[REDACTED] movie would have been great if it had been rated 'R'" comment* I see so much is just dumb.

Great movies are great movies, despite their ratings- not because of them.

But a great movie can be made worse by cutting out certain parts in order to achieve a lower and more marketable rating.

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I believe All The President's Men has the most "fucks" uttered in a PG movie.

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timdiggerm said:

xhonzi said:

Which is why I think the "[REDACTED] movie would have been great if it had been rated 'R'" comment* I see so much is just dumb.

Great movies are great movies, despite their ratings- not because of them.

But a great movie can be made worse by cutting out certain parts in order to achieve a lower and more marketable rating.

Possibly.

I've seen my fair share of movies that are edited for offensive content.  With few exceptions- I've never really thought that the missing content went... missing.

IT'S MY TRILOGY, AND I WANT IT NOW!

"[George Lucas] rebooted the franchise in 1997 without telling anyone." -skyjedi2005

"Yeah, well, George says a lot of things..." a young 1997 xhonzi on RASSM

"They're my movies." -George Lucas. 19 people won oscars for their work on Star Wars (1977) and George Lucas wasn't one of them.

Rewrite the Prequels!

 

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skyjedi2005 said:

Well in the novelization and the screenplay was not Ben supposed cut the guy in half, into two gruesome sections from chin to groin.

This like Vader ripping the rebel troops arm off, or stormtroopers heads exploding were toned down for the film.

 

Since this scene is borrowed from one of Kurosawa's film where Mifune kills the guy with his Samurai sword the cut in half part was probably too graphic, and the spurt of blood etc.  In the Kurosawa film it is more implied you don't see the guy literally cut in two.

 

I cannot remember which of the two films the scene was in its either Yojimbo or Sanjuro.

Believe you're referring to the end of Sanjuro.

VADER!? WHERE THE HELL IS MY MOCHA LATTE? -Palpy on a very bad day.
“George didn’t think there was any future in dead Han toys.”-Harrison Ford
YT channel:
https://www.youtube.com/c/DamnFoolIdealisticCrusader

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xhonzi said:

timdiggerm said:

xhonzi said:

Which is why I think the "[REDACTED] movie would have been great if it had been rated 'R'" comment* I see so much is just dumb.

Great movies are great movies, despite their ratings- not because of them.

But a great movie can be made worse by cutting out certain parts in order to achieve a lower and more marketable rating.

Possibly.

I've seen my fair share of movies that are edited for offensive content.  With few exceptions- I've never really thought that the missing content went... missing.

As in "edited for television"? Savvy filmmakers have been shooting alternate takes to cover that for years. Most movies only play on basic cable these days instead of the networks, and things are more relaxed now than in the 80's and 90's.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

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SilverWook said:

xhonzi said:

timdiggerm said:

xhonzi said:

Which is why I think the "[REDACTED] movie would have been great if it had been rated 'R'" comment* I see so much is just dumb.

Great movies are great movies, despite their ratings- not because of them.

But a great movie can be made worse by cutting out certain parts in order to achieve a lower and more marketable rating.

Possibly.

I've seen my fair share of movies that are edited for offensive content.  With few exceptions- I've never really thought that the missing content went... missing.

As in "edited for television"? Savvy filmmakers have been shooting alternate takes to cover that for years. Most movies only play on basic cable these days instead of the networks, and things are more relaxed now than in the 80's and 90's.

Always makes me think of this... (sorry it's not really on-topic)

Pallies...editied for television.