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The "original crawl" on the new DVD is NOT the original crawl! Screenshot inside! — Page 4

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Well, except that there's not a demand that I know of for several thousand year old cake, it's really not that different. But, yeah, it is a joke. And once again, the ice cream kid analogy. And once again, my same refute. If any person goes up to an ice cream vendor and is offered chocolate ice cream and pays for chocolate ice cream and is given vanilla ice cream, he has reason to complain. Only in this case, it's vanilla ice cream with worms. I'm a vegetarian, so that's already a no-no, but I don't think I'd find worms palatable to begin with.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Boris, doctoring the colour of my caps and saying "your caps look the same to me" is stupid.

FACT: The colouring matches the 1993 video

FACT: The crawl depicted in the trailer never existed

FACT: The EOD footage has a different starfield

So will the crawl for sure be a re-created one? Maybe not. But based on all the information available, which is actually quite a bit of info, the best conclusion drawable is that its merely a digitally re-created one, likely done using the same technique made for the prequels. Ordinarily i wouldn't mind this--i mean having the original crawl in itself is a bonus--but selling this as "the original theatrical version" is flagarant false advertising.
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everything about the upcoming release is is flagarant false advertising.

I sure hope the s.o.b. burns in hell for this.

R.I.P oot.

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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Originally posted by: zombie84
Boris, doctoring the colour of my caps and saying "your caps look the same to me" is stupid. The.E.O.D.c.r.a.w.l.was.coloured.to.look.like.2004.crawls.made.to.look.like.pt.crawls.The.E.O.D.c.r.a.w.l.was.re.-coloured.

"FACT: The colouring matches the 1993 video"

No it doesn't. Here, see for yourself:

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/6899/pdvd002gz5.jpg

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i139/zombie__84/crappydvdcrawl.jpg

grow up. it doesn't match at all.

FACT: The crawl depicted in the trailer never existed

FACT: The EOD footage has a different starfield

What, are you completely out of touch with reality? Look for yourself:

http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/8968/crawl1pc3.jpg

http://img323.imageshack.us/img323/391/crawl2jk6.jpg

The.star.field.is.the.same.The.crawl.is.the.same.

Only the SW logo is different everything.else.is.exactly.the.same.

the best conclusion drawable is that its merely a digitally re-created one, likely done using the same technique made for the prequels.

Whatever you say, sherlock.Originally posted by: skyjedi2005
I sure hope the s.o.b. burns in hell for this.

R.I.P oot.
Look, I don't know what the hell goes through your mind, but ... nevermind, "burn in hell, lucas" - i hope Lucas remembers that next time you demand something from him.
Some were not blessed with brains.
<blockquote>Originally posted by: BadAssKeith

You are passing up on a great opportunity to makes lots of money,
make Lucas lose a lot of his money
and make him look bad to the entire world
and you could be well known and liked

None of us here like Lucas or Lucasfilm.
I have death wishes on Lucas and Macullum.
we could all probably get 10s of thousands of dollars!
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By the way, I've had a few beers, before posting the previous two posts... so if i came on a bit strong try not to take it personally. I don't mean to insult you Zombie, but I've disproved all three of your "facts" in this thread. On the starfield, if you look at them both you can tell that they're the same, but the hyperspace one has more of the stars showing. This is a good thing, because it indicates they've bought back the stars! Even if I hadn't enhanced the hyperspace image the stars would still be more visible then the enhanced EOD screencap. The colouring, honestly, looks no closer to the 2004/5 DVD then it does to the 1993/95 THX LD. Also the EOD appears to be one frame behind the hyperspace frame, by the position of the stars closest to the text, do you see?
Originally posted by: zombie84
"the original theatrical version" is flagarant false advertising. But there's no such thing as a theatrical version on home equipment, the very statement alone is a contradiction, and your attack of it being "false advertising" is just another way to throw unjustified attacks at something you're angry about, justifying them to yourself using your own inventive convenient definitions that are still based on speculation, not based on widely-accepted definitions, and not based on factual reality.They promised us the theatrical versions. They've already made a slew of crappy decisions for this release. Now they're flat-out lying to us.
No you see, they're not. They've been honest about it. It's the forum members here who are flat-out lying about the September release, not LucasFilm, Fox or George Lucas.
Some were not blessed with brains.
<blockquote>Originally posted by: BadAssKeith

You are passing up on a great opportunity to makes lots of money,
make Lucas lose a lot of his money
and make him look bad to the entire world
and you could be well known and liked

None of us here like Lucas or Lucasfilm.
I have death wishes on Lucas and Macullum.
we could all probably get 10s of thousands of dollars!
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What they are releasing is not the theatrical version. And I know that because it doesn't have the 70mm 6-track audio with it.


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I never got the impression that they were going to be the "theatrical" versions, just the pre-SE versions like any of the other home-video versions that have been released.

Quite frankly, they could have left the 'episode IV- a new hope' in the crawl and I wouldn't have cared. I've never seen the film without that in the crawl (aside from a bootleg version that a friend of mine had in '77 or '78), so that's the version I'm most familiar with. But, I know that for the people who DID see it in the theater in '77, it may be nostalgic to see the crawl without it.

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The pre-ANH crawl should be taken from a film source, if it's to be included. From what I can see, it looks like the trailer crawl could be from the same source as the EOD crawl. I wouldn't trust a web trailer for color information, but it looks closer to the original color than the EOD clip, for what it's worth.
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Just so we can talk about all the sources on the same level, here are all the crawls in question, captured the exact same way and adjusted black levels:


Definitive Collection Laserdisc (X0 capture):
http://img122.imageshack.us/img122/5743/crawldcyk4.jpg

2004 DVD:
http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/2128/crawl2004fs1.jpg

Empire of Dreams:
http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/278/crawleodeo4.jpg

OUT Trailer:
http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/5092/crawlouttrailerho4.jpg

And for fun, a crawl created by me:
http://img93.imageshack.us/img93/7595/crawlx0betaoa9.jpg


I'd also like to point out that my crawl's starfield is restored from the DC LD capture (X0 Project starfield recovery). You can tell that it is a completely different starfield than the DVD, EOD, and the OUT trailer...

My Projects:
[Holiday Special Hybrid DVD v2]
[X0 Project]
[Backstroke of the West DVD]
[ROTS Theatrical DVD]

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I know this is completely missing the point of the crawl comparison, but I just have to point out something,
Is it just me, or does the "restored starfield" kick ass over everything else? Even the 2004 DVD.....obviously it does....excellent work Zion...

And I have to say, that is what I remember seeing in the theaters, a huge bright deep awesome star field that made my imagination run wild.
Thank you Zion, Laserman, MeBeJedi......

And I further apologize for this but...I even prefer the re-done crawl too, it would be a shame to see the "restored starfield" while trying to read a noisey dot out of focus crawl...

I love everybody. Lets all smoke some reefer and chill. Hug and kisses for everybody.

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Thanks, Zion.

Bizarre. The DVD, EOD & trailer starfields all look alike (with varying degrees of star visibility). The DC LD one is clearly different, as Zion says. Okay, so the trailer seems to match EOD (but with more star visibility and truer color) - good news, as EOD is generally considered to be from an original film source (does anyone know this for sure?). It's easy to see why the starfield might change for the ANH edition, but baffling that it would change back for the DVD, while keeping the same text.

I can think of two possible explanations:

a) the DVD & EOD crawls are both 2004 recreations and the trailer crawl is taken from the EOD one;

b) the EOD (and trailer) crawl/starfield are the originals, both were changed for the ANH edition, (from which the DC LD was taken), then it was re-composited for the SE from the ANH crawl and original starfield elements.
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I don't really know what to think, but I have a couple of theories:

1. The Empire of Dreams crawl is not genuine, but is a digitally recreated crawl done with the same starfield used on the 2004 DVD (and apparently the OUT DVD).
2. The Empire of Dreams crawl is genuine, and the original starfield was used on the 2004 DVD. This would mean that the '93 starfield is not the original.

My Projects:
[Holiday Special Hybrid DVD v2]
[X0 Project]
[Backstroke of the West DVD]
[ROTS Theatrical DVD]

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Seems I was editing the same conclusions into my post while you typed yours, Zion. Do you have access to the same frame from the SE LD? That might shed some light on the subject.
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1995 PAL LD
http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/8045/vlcsnap34376hv8.jpg


So the starfield on the LDs is not the original starfield???
Fez: I am so excited about Star Whores.
Hyde: Fezzy, man, it's Star Wars.
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I have a vague memory that the starfield did change for the ANH edition, and that there used to be a dissolve on the tilt down to the Tatooine/Tantive IV shot. Lucas may have wanted to eliminate that dissolve for the SE, and so returned to the original starfield. Or I could be talking nonsense.
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Hmmmm I wonder if the Super8 has the original Starfield.

Edit: Surely the '77 bootleg will tell us?

“I love Darth Editous and I’m not ashamed to admit it.” ~ADigitalMan

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Even better. Here is a scan of an original 77 print (let's just say this is from the "X0 Project archives"):

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/7321/crawl77printus1.jpg

This would pretty much prove that not only does the OUT release look to have the original starfield, but so does Empire of Dreams and the 2004 DVD. Which begs the question, why did the other releases not have this starfield? I wonder if the "A New Hope" theatrical version had this "new" starfield as well.



And here is another scan. This one shows one of the last frames the Star Wars logo is visible:

http://img124.imageshack.us/img124/4549/crawl77print2ii9.jpg

This would confirm that the OUT trailer crawl is somehow doctored, seeing that the logo is nowhere near this faded away in the clip and the crawl is farther along.

My Projects:
[Holiday Special Hybrid DVD v2]
[X0 Project]
[Backstroke of the West DVD]
[ROTS Theatrical DVD]

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I think we need to see the SE LD crawl to know more.
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I see those frames come from a 35mm scope (anamorphic) print. Seeing those might be an education for those on TF.net, etc. who say things like: "Why are you complaining about these DVDs being non-anamorphic? Star Wars wasn't anamorphic in the theaters in 1977" LOL!

Originally posted by: THX
I think we need to see the SE LD crawl to know more.

I have the SE LDs- I don't know if there's any way for me to put captures up, though.

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Courtesy of the Feta/Jedi SE:

http://bobafeta.kol.co.nz/misc/SE_Crawl.jpg

(Levels adjusted)

“I love Darth Editous and I’m not ashamed to admit it.” ~ADigitalMan

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I'm not sure why this hasn't been checked yet, but here's a grab of the '77 monomix bootleg. The slightly yellow blur at the very bottom of the screen is the very top of the crawl. The tape goes fuzzy the next few frames in.

http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/162/monologoqi9.jpg
Yeah, not all that helpful.

And a shot from the '97 SE's from the DVD9 asian bootlegs. It is not a great screen grab, but maybe one of you more tech savvy guys can do something with it.

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/414/97sefu6.jpg
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Originally posted by: Zion
This would confirm that the OUT trailer crawl is somehow doctored, seeing that the logo is nowhere near this faded away in the clip and the crawl is farther along.
Yes it shows what you said before, that for the preview they faded the SW logo out later then in the real-time crawl to make it faster, I'd say that's very strong evidence that the crawl is the original (which I believe it is), and not recreated. By the way, what's that awful yellow line doing in your frames?
Some were not blessed with brains.
<blockquote>Originally posted by: BadAssKeith

You are passing up on a great opportunity to makes lots of money,
make Lucas lose a lot of his money
and make him look bad to the entire world
and you could be well known and liked

None of us here like Lucas or Lucasfilm.
I have death wishes on Lucas and Macullum.
we could all probably get 10s of thousands of dollars!
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Time
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Looks like the SEs had the original crawl as well.

While we're at it, here's a cap of the pre-THX Japanese Special Collection LD. (courtesy dark/sega SC):
http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/3615/crawljscmb8.jpg

It would appear that this is the same starfield as the '93 THX, i.e. not the original starfield.

Originally posted by: boris
Yes it shows what you said before, that for the preview they faded the SW logo out later then in the real-time crawl to make it faster, I'd say that's very strong evidence that the crawl is the original (which I believe it is), and not recreated. By the way, what's that awful yellow line doing in your frames?

I don't think it proves that it's the original, but it could very well be. The only reason I doubt it is because the video doesn't jump around like the EOD clip does.

The line you refer to was on the film. I don't know what the technical term for it is. We didn't clean the scans up or anything.

My Projects:
[Holiday Special Hybrid DVD v2]
[X0 Project]
[Backstroke of the West DVD]
[ROTS Theatrical DVD]

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Originally posted by: Zion
I don't think it proves that it's the original, but it could very well be. The only reason I doubt it is because the video doesn't jump around like the EOD clip does.
Well I've not seen the hyperspace one, but could that simply mean they've removed camera-jitter? Or what did you mean by "jump around"?

Some were not blessed with brains.
<blockquote>Originally posted by: BadAssKeith

You are passing up on a great opportunity to makes lots of money,
make Lucas lose a lot of his money
and make him look bad to the entire world
and you could be well known and liked

None of us here like Lucas or Lucasfilm.
I have death wishes on Lucas and Macullum.
we could all probably get 10s of thousands of dollars!