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The "original crawl" on the new DVD is NOT the original crawl! Screenshot inside! — Page 3

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Haha nice!

I do hope this turns out to be as Zion has speculated that it is merely an edit for the trailer. I really think not--after all, Lucasfilm knew this would scrutinized so why edit something in the sales trailer that is being sold as "unedited and unaltered"?? This is why i think it actually is the real McCoy.

Best case scenario: it is a re-created "simulated original crawl" as per Zion's speculation. In this case the colouring and starfield are still inaccurate, and it is also likely that they just copied the text from the 1993 video, meaning it will have the 1981 formating. Thus, even if it is 100% accurate it is still not the "original unaltered theatrical version."

I stand by my assessment though that they simply screwed up the crawl, like they have screwed up everything else.

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Originally posted by: seventiesfilmnut
What's the bet we're getting the 1993 sound mix rather than the 'original' theatrical one as well? Lucasfilm should be doen for false advertising! They did it before with the "Buy it one LAST time" Faces LD's in 1995 to....

Who can trust anything Lucas/Lucasfilm says anymore?

I don't doubt for a minute that we're getting the '93 sound mix. If we're getting the '93 LD transfers, we're getting the same sound too. Personally, I don't mind, because I have no problem with the sound on the '93 and '95 laserdiscs.

As far as the term "original" goes, I guess that's up to interpretation when it comes to Lucasfilm.

A question about the "crawl"-- from what I understand, it's more than just the absence of the "episode IV: a new hope" that's different about the original '77 crawl-- from what I've heard, the text in whole crawl is formatted differently, (eg- "death star" is on one line in the original, but is on two lines in the revised version) Is that true? If so, we'll probably be able to tell if they just "erased" the "ep. IV..." part if the formatting is the same as the latter version.

Also, I agree with Zion that the crawl we see in the DVD ad is probably a quickie mock-up done just for the trailer. I wonder if this same trailer will be shown on TV and in movie theaters?

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Perhaps the crawl in the trailor was a work in progress? By the end they'll recreate something which more accurately represents the theatrical crawl? Knowing Lucasfilm, they probaby don't care that much.

Still, it's not the real crawl but a simulation. Just another reason not to buy these DVDs.


Anyways, I believe it is unreasonable to consider banning JediRandy. After all, it's interesting to see the immensely-intellectual depths his viewpoint brings to all of this. Sure, he's kind of a dick, but that's not the end of the world.

"Now all Lucas has to do is make a cgi version of himself.  It will be better than the original and fit his original vision." - skyjedi2005

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Originally posted by: JediRandy
OMG!!!! Luca$ is teh Sux!!

That's not what people said. But he has told a bald-faced lie and continues to mistreat his fans. This is just proof that what they have been advertising is a lie. No one said anything else. This release will not be anamorphic. Fact. It will be made from 15 year old masters, whcih LFL admits are of poor quality. Fact. People who saw the ComiCon presentation said that it looked bad. Fact. Lucasfilm has the ability to release a proper version. Fact. They have not. Fact. Therefore, criticism.

Its not your movie, never was, never will be.


I never said that it was, but thanks for reminding me for the 65th time.

After all, it's interesting to see the immensely-intellectual depths his viewpoint brings to all of this.


I assume that you are kidding?

“What Orwell feared were those who would ban books. What Huxley feared was that there would be no reason to ban a book, for there would be no one who wanted to read one.”

Neil Postman, Amusing Ourselves to Death

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Originally posted by: Mike O

After all, it's interesting to see the immensely-intellectual depths his viewpoint brings to all of this.


I assume that you are kidding?


Hmm, I'm not sure. Do you assume that I'm kidding?

"Now all Lucas has to do is make a cgi version of himself.  It will be better than the original and fit his original vision." - skyjedi2005

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I'm so depressed about the upcoming DVDs, I don't now what to think .

“What Orwell feared were those who would ban books. What Huxley feared was that there would be no reason to ban a book, for there would be no one who wanted to read one.”

Neil Postman, Amusing Ourselves to Death

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Originally posted by: MeBeJedi
"1. how do you know the empire of dreams has the original version? 2. How do you know that there weren't 3 slightly differently formatted crawls for the 3 theatrical versions?"

Now you're just making shit up. Until you know otherwise, your musings are mute.
Until you and Zombie know otherwise, your points are mute.

You really hate me don't you MeBeJedi? LOL, I can't remember how many times you've tried staring a flame war with me, but it's gotta be 5 or 6 times now at least. It just seems to me that saying:

The "original crawl" on the new DVD is NOT the original crawl! Screenshot inside!

When there is no real evidence to prove this is true is just plain speculation and general Lucas hate-mongering. That's my opinion, and if you don't like it then by all means believe that the original crawl on the SW OUT DVD is a simulation, and if you want to believe in elves and aliens as well and that there once was a real star wars and that Lucas is a big fat phoney then by all means you're welcome to.

I don't have to share them, and I think I have every right to point out just how ridiculous they are. Honestly, they simulated the original crawl? Give me a break!
Some were not blessed with brains.
<blockquote>Originally posted by: BadAssKeith

You are passing up on a great opportunity to makes lots of money,
make Lucas lose a lot of his money
and make him look bad to the entire world
and you could be well known and liked

None of us here like Lucas or Lucasfilm.
I have death wishes on Lucas and Macullum.
we could all probably get 10s of thousands of dollars!
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Originally posted by: boris
[ It just seems to me that saying:

The "original crawl" on the new DVD is NOT the original crawl! Screenshot inside!

When there is no real evidence to prove this is true is just plain speculation and general Lucas hate-mongering. That's my opinion, and if you don't like it then by all means believe that the original crawl on the SW OUT DVD is a simulation, and if you want to believe in elves and aliens as well and that there once was a real star wars and that Lucas is a big fat phoney then by all means you're welcome to.

I don't have to share them, and I think I have every right to point out just how ridiculous they are. Honestly, they simulated the original crawl? Give me a break!


Boris, its not plain speculation--its based on evidence! Its based on video examples! LOL! What more do you want! The trailer for the dvd which is designed to sell the OOT's release contains a clip which says in a flaming blue banner "original crawl" and the crawl is clearly not the original crawl. How much more evidence do you need? Clearly the clip proves that it is not the original crawl--all that remains to be seen is if this clip was doctored for the trailer, and this is the only point that is speculatory.
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Originally posted by: zombie84
Boris, its not plain speculation--its based on evidence! Its based on video examples! LOL! What more do you want! The trailer for the dvd which is designed to sell the OOT's release contains a clip which says in a flaming blue banner "original crawl" and the crawl is clearly not the original crawl. How much more evidence do you need? Clearly the clip proves that it is not the original crawl--all that remains to be seen is if this clip was doctored for the trailer, and this is the only point that is speculatory.
It's only evidence because you choose to believe it is. Zion made a good point that they could have been deliberately speeding it up - shaving a couple of seconds here and a couple of seconds there in adverts does make a difference. The crawl looks completely identical to the one in empire of dreams (except for when the SW logo fades). There are so many other explanations available, and you've chosen to jump to conclusions and to believe just one of many reasonable explanations. And the one you've chosen to believe, I feel is much more far fetched then believing that the crawl is the original. So, how do you know the Empire of Dreams crawl is not photoshopped and is the original? Because of the ANH crawl on the 2004 DVD? The ANH crawl on the 2004 DVD was recreated, wasn't it? Surely you must have some better evidence.
Some were not blessed with brains.
<blockquote>Originally posted by: BadAssKeith

You are passing up on a great opportunity to makes lots of money,
make Lucas lose a lot of his money
and make him look bad to the entire world
and you could be well known and liked

None of us here like Lucas or Lucasfilm.
I have death wishes on Lucas and Macullum.
we could all probably get 10s of thousands of dollars!
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I don't think the crawl they showed at Comicon is what will be on the DVDs.


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Originally posted by: boris
Originally posted by: zombie84
Boris, its not plain speculation--its based on evidence! Its based on video examples! LOL! What more do you want! The trailer for the dvd which is designed to sell the OOT's release contains a clip which says in a flaming blue banner "original crawl" and the crawl is clearly not the original crawl. How much more evidence do you need? Clearly the clip proves that it is not the original crawl--all that remains to be seen is if this clip was doctored for the trailer, and this is the only point that is speculatory.

It's only evidence because you choose to believe it is. Zion made a good point that they could have been deliberately speeding it up - shaving a couple of seconds here and a couple of seconds there in adverts does make a difference. The crawl looks completely identical to the one in empire of dreams (except for when the SW logo fades). There are so many other explanations available, and you've chosen to jump to conclusions and to believe just one of many reasonable explanations. And the one you've chosen to believe, I feel is much more far fetched then believing that the crawl is the original. So, how do you know the Empire of Dreams crawl is not photoshopped and is the original? Because of the ANH crawl on the 2004 DVD? The ANH crawl on the 2004 DVD was recreated, wasn't it? Surely you must have some better evidence.



Boris now you are just talking nonesense. The clip is not identical to EOD at all. The colour is different. The entire background is different. The black levels are different. The composition of the logo is different. Everything that could possibly be different within that frame is different.

We know the EOD is not photoshopped because it is taken from the 35mm originals from the LFL archives. The 2004 SE DVD crawl was not re-created, as far as we know, it remains as it was since 1981.

I am simply looking at the facts and drawing a conclusion. It just happens to be one which you are not happy with. But sometimes the truth can be unpleasant. The only saving grace that can be said is that the crawl will be changed come the actual release but i see no reason or indication that this is so.
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Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape
This is what I've been fearing ever since it was first announced. That they were simply going to paint away the "Episode IV: A New Hope." And sure enough, every worst case scenario comes to fruition. Okay, so I'm definitely not buying these releases. If the picture quality had been shown to be halfway decent, I probably would have bought it. Had it just been them relegating it to the second disc as bonus material, I most likely would have bought it.

But this, this is the one thing I absolutely refuse to tolerate. In their initial press release, that was one of the things they originally touted. I knew there was a reason to get suspicious when that paragraph mysteriously disappeared for a few hours. This is just flat-out lying. This isn't even lying due to minds changing or business practices changing. And I refuse to cater or give my money to a company that is clearly lying. Obviously the footage exists! It was on Empire of Dreams for crying out loud! Wouldn't it have been easier to splice the original crawl in rather than paint out the "most offensive" element?

I'm sure most people won't be able to tell the difference. And I'm sure George and his Merry Men will be snickering about it. "Coming soon! The original theatrical cuts! Or close enough that you George vision-haters won't be able to tell the difference! Nyah-nyah!" Well, suck on this, George. You are not getting another red cent from me until you actually start producing quality products and stop lying about the less-than-quality ones you are releasing.


Ah, but then everybody would notice how superior the picture quality of the crawl is in contrast to the rest of the film. Luca$ being met with a barrage of complaints, would then have no choice but to restore the rest of the footage, and we all know he doesn't want to do that.
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Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape
Originally posted by: Shimraa
omg you cant be serious your mad cause they removed teh starwars title and had it move at a different speed... wow...


Yeah, I am. Is that a problem for you?

Think about it this way, Shim. What if, on Return of the Jedi, they decided to use the '04 DVD elements in the last scene. But to make it the "original" version, they took the Hayden Force ghost scene and pasted Sebastian Shaw's head on top of Hayden's head. Would you consider that to be original?

They promised us the theatrical versions. They've already made a slew of crappy decisions for this release. Now they're flat-out lying to us. Geez, Shim, what would Lucasfilm have to do before you lost trust in them?


well i dont really look at it as a thing of trust. for the record i dont really trust a company that takes DVDs that cost a dollar to make and sell them for 30 dollars. but alas your reference is much different, in this case all thats different is that the title is in a different place, maybe if he changed it to the point where the title came ofter the crawl it would be a big deal but its just off by a little bit. i honestly think you guys are just insane for being this mad about such a tiny flaw. its like throwing away a cake if a drop of water fell on it and made a tiny spot on the side where no one is looking.
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Originally posted by: zombie84
Boris now you are just talking nonesense. The clip is not identical to EOD at all.
Really?

http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/8968/crawl1pc3.jpg

http://img323.imageshack.us/img323/391/crawl2jk6.jpg

Because it looks the same to me, and those are your screencaps.

"The colour is different."

Yes, but they clearly recoloured it for EOD. That proves nothing.

"The entire background is different."

Rubbish, the starfield is identical.

"The black levels are different."

Again, this proves nothing. They bought the stars out better with the trailer, so naturally when doing this the black level would change (and even then there are many other reasons why it can change).

"The composition of the logo is different."

Well maybe, but I don't see that in your EOD screencap.

"We know the EOD is not photoshopped because it is taken from the 35mm originals from the LFL archives."

You're assuming this.

"But sometimes the truth can be unpleasant."

And the truth is its not recreated.
Some were not blessed with brains.
<blockquote>Originally posted by: BadAssKeith

You are passing up on a great opportunity to makes lots of money,
make Lucas lose a lot of his money
and make him look bad to the entire world
and you could be well known and liked

None of us here like Lucas or Lucasfilm.
I have death wishes on Lucas and Macullum.
we could all probably get 10s of thousands of dollars!
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Originally posted by: Shimraa
in this case all thats different is that the title is in a different place, maybe if he changed it to the point where the title came ofter the crawl it would be a big deal but its just off by a little bit. i honestly think you guys are just insane for being this mad about such a tiny flaw. its like throwing away a cake if a drop of water fell on it and made a tiny spot on the side where no one is looking.


But what if that cake was marketed as 'The Perfect Cake!! No flaws and no drops of water!! What cake fans everywhere have been waiting for!!'?

War does not make one great.

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Or if it was a cake marketed as, "The first cake ever baked! This is the original cake, preserved to be with us today!" and then gave us a cake that was articifically aged to the point of being disgusting but in actuality being a brand new cake, rather than an old preserved cake.

Heehee, this is a fun game.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Is the cake a cheese cake? I like cheese cake.

I love everybody. Lets all smoke some reefer and chill. Hug and kisses for everybody.

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The trailer crawl is obviously put together for the trailer. It seems most likely that it will be the EOD crawl on the DVDs.
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Well, I certainly hope so. I guess we'll just have to see if boris is right. If so, I guess we owe him an apology. If not, then maybe we can... I don't know... do something bad. ^_~

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Originally posted by: Yoda Is Your Father
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v625/mebejedi/ILMcrawlscan.jpg

And just think about the poor guy in the photo. For years he's been telling his friends, his family, random people he meets on the street, that he worked on Star Wars - 'You know the writing at the start? That was me!! and this is how we did it...'

Well not anymore - some intern with a basic knowledge of Photoshop holds the honor now.


that a great point.

and honestly...its not so much that they did it...it the fact that they lie about it.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v167/bgiffen/bigbluerig.jpg
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Isn't that Richard Edlund?

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With this little bit of info, and the word about the transfer quality, I'm starting to seriously wonder if they're not just packaging the editdroid rips.

Seriously. I mean, these could straight up be the Editdroid rips for the quality and the amount of effort LFL is putting into this. I'm sure I could sucker some people into betting me money. I mean, I know I'm probably way wrong, but it's close enough that it doesn't make a difference. Editdroid team essentially pulled off Lucasfilm's release of the Original Trilogy onto DVD about 5 years ago.

Except they managed to fit in seamless branching doctored opening scroll AND an isolated score. LFL couldn't even do that.

Wow. It's like they set out to find EVERY worst case scenario possible, and then lived up to them all.
The Best Show You've Never Heard
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Originally posted by: Yoda Is Your Father
Originally posted by: Shimraa
in this case all thats different is that the title is in a different place, maybe if he changed it to the point where the title came ofter the crawl it would be a big deal but its just off by a little bit. i honestly think you guys are just insane for being this mad about such a tiny flaw. its like throwing away a cake if a drop of water fell on it and made a tiny spot on the side where no one is looking.


But what if that cake was marketed as 'The Perfect Cake!! No flaws and no drops of water!! What cake fans everywhere have been waiting for!!'?


nothing is perfect, and dont tell me you buy that marketing line everytime. if you saw a commercial for an ab machine and they said this is prefect for working your abs would you go out and buy it. probably not.

i donno this whole thread reminds me of my spoiled kid analogy. so many fans are like a child who wants some icecream, he whines and whines and whines about wanting his ice cream so finally his mom gets him some vanilla icecream, and he gets it and throws it on the ground and says i want chocolate icecream not vanilla.
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Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape
Or if it was a cake marketed as, "The first cake ever baked! This is the original cake, preserved to be with us today!" and then gave us a cake that was articifically aged to the point of being disgusting but in actuality being a brand new cake, rather than an old preserved cake.

Heehee, this is a fun game.


common gaffer i Know your smarter then that. hahaha, your jsut angry, dont be like the icecream kid gaffer resist the urge, its of the darkside