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The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread — Page 7

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About this whole Darth Maul IS General Greivous combo:

I have not been sold on this at all yet. I still don't know why we can't have a darth maul in Ep.1 and another villian named General Grevious in III. I just don't see how you could make general grevious SEEM like he is suppose to be darth maul at all. I mean sure, you can mess with names, but how far does that really go? We could change anybodys names around, but the characters don't even move or act like each other. I always thought if you redubbed Grevious with a scarier taunts and a mean voice it would make his character have more intimidation. Someone else mentioned that if we "assumed" that maul survived being chopped in half, then it kind of comes off as cheesy, why did he not die? Are we to assume that if anybody is taken out in battle that they could still be alive? Did mace windue survive palpatines lighting? It just raises some inconsistancies IMO. Plus Grevious has obvious alien eyes and eyeline features. He runs away, he's hunched over and he seems less important to be walking around with droid armies. And if Maul is Grevious in Ep.1, then what did he do when he was found, alive, put together in a droid body.....and then just take up work as the general for the trade federations clone war? I just don't see the characters connecting at all. Maybe it could be pulled off, I just wanted to know how this could be done.


Don't get me wrong, I think it would have been cool if maul survived TPM and showed up again in ROTS to revenge his fight. And it is true, Grevious did not serve much puprose in the movie, but you could make his character seem more of a threat. He is kind of like Jabba in ROTJ, did we really need to go to his palace and watch nothing but him and his cronies for 30 minutes only to watch him dye and fade away? I think General Grevious is a cool character and was nicely expanded upon in the cartoon series, but I don't see why or how you can turn him into darth maul. Just a thought.
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For Greivous, are you going to be editing out his annoying caughing and weezing?

This is an amazing project, I cant wait to view this!!

Would you have rather have this

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/1593073119.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

?
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I can't say I have been sold on the whole Maul/Grievous idea either. I think it would make a cool seperate 'Star Wars Infinities" project, where someone edits together an hour long Darth Maul movie with the first part being TPM stuff and the last part being his reincarnated grevious self.

And my take on the Jedi Ghost thing...

What I would like to see (I've posted this before), is this:

-Luke looks off to the distance.
-Old Obi-Wan and Yoda are there, and old Anakin appears.
-Luke smiles at them, and Leia comes over to him.
-Old spirits transform into their prequel trilogy selves, dressed appropriately (no cut-and-paste jobs).
-Luke and Leia join the rest of the group.
-Qui-Gon appears beside them and the group acknowledges each other.
-Final shot of the OT characters.
-NEW final shot of SAGA characters, the spirits.

Since the saga is really about Anakin, the final shot should feature him and the other full-saga characters. That, and I never liked that last shot of laughing Leia, clapping Lando, and dancing Ewoks. A new, triumphant musical cue should also be added to end the saga with an emotional bang. It would be nice to see Padme there with the rest of the spirits, to have Anakin reunited with his love and Luke and Leia see their mother, but the logistics of explaining how that would be possible would outrage many fans I'm sure. In my opinion, NOT seeing Padme really weakens the saga; what kind of happy ending is it when we're left to assume the hero's love is lost to oblivion? All that aside, seeing Qui-Gon makes perfect sense as he is the reason the rest of them are there in the first place.


I really like this. I would dig seeing old Anakin and Ben start to glow brightly and then as the glow dies down, we see a yound Anakin and Ob-wan. And Qui-Gon fades in and there ya go. Honestly, CC is a fr**kin' genius.

Even if having more ghosts in the movie doesn't fit the over all Saga feel of this project (I think that it does), I still would love to see this scene made as CC has it. I'd find a spot for it somewhere.

What I'd really like to see for the Episode Six edit is a re-dubbing of Mon Mothma's lines. Since none of the movies ever featured a Bothan, the line doesn't have any punch. Maybe she could take a second to mention that she has been fighting against Palpatine from the beginning, how the Rebel Alliance has lost such valuable members such as General Jan Dodonna, Senator Bail Organa and maybe Senator Padme Amidala. There ya go.
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A Star Wars Visionaries sounds like an amazing idea aswell, good luck to you all!!

It boggles my mind that you can do this stuff
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Agreed that according to the current Lucas system, Qui-Gon is the only force-ghost other than Ben, Yoda & Anakin who could appear at the end of RotJ. However, just because he can, doesn't mean he should. That scene is about Luke seeing that his father has indeed redeemed himself. Luke knows Ben and Yoda, but doesn't know Qui-Gon, so there's no reason for Qui-Gon to appear to Luke. Qui-Gon also could appear on Dagobah in ESB or RotJ but doesn't - so why here?
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Originally posted by: Sluggo
http://img235.imageshack.us/img235/2350/osoiman8rq.jpg

Something like this, Infodroid?



ROTFLMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Thanks so much for that, Sluggo!!!! That's awesome!!!

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I'd love to see that but how are you going to have Luke interact and/or Qui-Gon to intereact in those scenes?\

Your going to dub the video to make new lines?

Are you going to erase the burning of Qui-Gon's body and should his body dissapear after he dies like how Obi-Wan does it or we just leave it too the unexplained?
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I don't think people are completely understanding my version of events. Luke sees Obi-Wan, Yoda, and Anakin's ghosts. The the three old ghosts morph into their younger selves. Then Luke leaves with Leia to join the celebration. Then Qui-Gon appears besides the young Obi-Wan, Yoda, and Anakin. (Notice that Luke does not see Qui-Gon, because as everyone is so quick to point out, he would no know who he is.) Then we see the original final shot of the OT characters with the Ewoks. Then a NEW final shot with the four ghosts: Anakin, the main character of the saga, his mentor and brother in arms Obi-Wan, his father figure (as well as Obi-Wan's mentor) Qui-Gon, who first discovered the path to immortality, and Yoda, ultimate Jedi Master and mentor to them all. This isn't for Luke, it's for Anakin (the main character of the saga), and the audience.

As for Qui-Gon, the plan was to have him dissapear in the flames. There is an in-depth discussion about Qui-Gon and his role in the prequels/saga in the Shroud of the Dark Side thread.
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The way you've put it, I think that would be a very cool ending, CC. Truly a satisfying conclusion without overdoing it.

In best Palpatine voice: "Can it be done?"




Just, please promise me, no Padme.

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Originally posted by: Hardcore Legend
Here's some more duel Dialogue. There is a pop that for the LIFE OF ME I can't figure out why it is there. Everytime I go to search the sound file, I can't get rid of it. Of course, I am dealing with MP3s off the web, and any edits would strictly be from the source material center channel audio.

Destiny Video


I found the "Your destiny lies with me" part alone.

Your destiny lies with me

Just add Obiwan at the end and, there you go.


http://twister111.tumblr.com
Previous Signature preservation link

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Sold! Sorry if I misunderstood your previous description, CC. Your ghost ending works well for a "coherent saga" edit.
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Originally posted by: twister111
Originally posted by: Hardcore Legend
Here's some more duel Dialogue. There is a pop that for the LIFE OF ME I can't figure out why it is there. Everytime I go to search the sound file, I can't get rid of it. Of course, I am dealing with MP3s off the web, and any edits would strictly be from the source material center channel audio.

Destiny Video


I found the "Your destiny lies with me" part alone.

Your destiny lies with me

Just add Obiwan at the end and, there you go.





Thanks. I've found with changing the Speed and pitch, adding bass and what not to Vader's dialogue, it gives it originality rather than having it pasted from another movie.

I think it the Vader duel, we need Vader to say something as he is stomping on ObiWan's cloak. I always hated that silence as Obi Wan is giving up and right after it. I added the "If you only knew.." which helped before, but him stomping around just looks silly...no final word, nothing. Just a 'huh...oh well' type factor now.

I was thinking of adding, "You have failed, master" or something like that. If only he had said "It is finished" at one point.
The Jedi are all but extinct.......
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I really liked how you added Qui-Gon, my only real comment on it is, its way too short of a scene. If you really wanted to have him in it cant be for a meare 2 seconds or it really will just confuse the viewer since he/she will say, "Wait, who was that? I couldnt even see him...."

Anyway you can stretch that scene so the viewer has time to comprehend that its indeed Qui-Gon?
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Here is something I threw together quickly. It, like the others, needs clean audio files and also not to be downconverted like this.


Failed Again
The Jedi are all but extinct.......
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I was thinking of adding, "You have failed, master" or something like that. If only he had said "It is finished" at one point
Again, the James Earl Jones Audio Bible would be a great resource...

Anyway you can stretch that scene so the viewer has time to comprehend that its indeed Qui-Gon?

Well Qui-Gon's a very distinctive figure, and who else would it be? Also, his spirit will appear at the end of III, as Obi-Wan walks back into the desert (at least that is the tentatove plan).
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Re: Jedi disappearing as they die --

I have a couple issues to settle with what's being discussed here'bouts. Maybe someone can set me right.

Why does Qui Gon have to disappear to set up his reappearance? He learned how to commune with the living from "the other side." He didn't know how when he died. He didn't prepare for it the way that Ben and Yoda did. And if he disappears in the funeral pyre, then people have to react to it (unless everyone disappears during their funerals -- and if that's the case, what's the point?) THat will add one more very heavy element into an already crowded scene. The actual missing part of that scene is the grief that Anakin should be feeling. Rather than listening to Mace and Yoda, we should have a close-up of Anakin where we can see the burning confusion in his eyes. He's been torn from his mother by a father figure who's burning right before his eyes - is this all that Anakin hoped it would be? I bet not.

So I recommend Qui Gon simply burn away as shown-- unless CC can straighten me out.

Second, I point out that when these Jedi disappear, they leave behind their cloaks and blankets. They disappear in only part of their garments -- leaving something behind. I don't think seeing Darth Vader's costume disappear from his funeral pyre will work. Anakin is inside that thing -- he won't need the costume where he's going and he isn't wearing it when we see him. If Vader is to disappear, I suggest it has to happen on the Death Star when Luke has removed his mask. He should somehow disappear from inside the costume, leaving Luke with an empty shell.

Don't know exactly how to do it. Aftereffects? Photoshop? Wishful Thinking?

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No, Anakin should not disappear. He does not know the technique to become one with the Force, however his great sacrafice and by bringing balance back to the Force rewards him.
The Jedi are all but extinct.......
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Trooperman and I discussed this very thing in the Shroud of the Dark Side thread. We’re both for Anakin disappearing in the last shot of Luke w/his body on the Death Star. I don’t know how to do this either (“wishful thinking,” haha), but I’m sure someone here does. As for Qui-Gon, I originally wanted it to stay as is, making the same point you did: there would be some kind of reaction from the onlookers if Jinn were to disappear. But TM noted there should be SOMETHING different about Qui-Gon’s death to explain why he was able to come back from the netherworld and other Jedi were not.

The key to this is Qui-Gon’s explanation of the path to immortality. Are we indeed going with no “explanation,” just to have him stay in contact with Anakin through dreams and intense circumstances, and then appear to Obi-Wan as he walks off into the desert? Subtleness has its advantages, but that might be so subtle to the point of confusing.
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What exactly are our plans for Qui Gonn to reach Anakin from beyond the grave?

Subtle or unsubtle, we have to know what we're trying to say. I already think Qui Gonn's death is different. Making him disappear will make him more similar to the other deaths. But we are probably not looking at this the same.

Here's how I understand things: Qui Gonn was killed. His spirit (seperate from the "secret of immortality" that he learns) goes to the great beyond where all spirits go. But rather than rest in that "other world," Qui Gonn's soul searched for the secret of how to return. He discovered it and used that secret to communicate with Yoda and teach him this trick. Yoda, in turn, taught Ben. Then, when the "chosen one" was redeemed and died -- his power and importance were enough for these others to "catch" him and for him to quickly learn this trick as well.

Anakin's body need not disappear any more than Qui Gonn's by this reckoning. The disappearing body is merely what happens when you consciously "do" this trick. Since niether Qui Gonn nor Anakin went through the meditative preparations, they did not "take" their body with them.

Since they are "immortal" only in the sense that they can now communicate with people on this side (apparently, in a limited way that works best with people in tune with the Force) -- the body is practically irrelevant. Ben didn't take his body to use it-- he just disappeared in a way that indicated his death may not be as complete as you would assume.

THIS, by the way, is the reason I love Vader's silence as he pokes around Ben's robes with his foot. What should he say? He's never seen THIS before. He presumes he's killed Obi Wan, but then again something's not right. Ben had warned him not to strike Ben down. His reaction is the way a bad-ass says "what the hell was that?" Making him say "It is finished" makes Vader a sap who can't see that something odd just happened. He's cut down dozens of Jedi and none of THEM disappeared. Why is this one different, he should wonder. If he doesn't wonder, then he's a fool. I prefer a Vader who isn't a fool. I prefer a bad-ass.

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I agree with Hardcore Legend and MTH: there's no logical inconsistency with both Qui-Gon and Anakin not disappearing, yet becoming force ghosts. (What is mesa sayin'? This sounds more like a Bizzle comment than a THX one).

But I do feel that Qui-Gon, sensing he might fail, prepared for the other side in advance, while Maul was held back by the red force-field. It wasn't explicit and could be interpreted in many ways but it was reminiscent of Ben's calm before he disappeared in ANH.

To be honest the whole Qui-Gon discovers the secret of immortality sub-plot isn't too hot. It would be better just to cut it than run rings trying to explain it. (Aah, that's more like it, THX).
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Originally posted by: THX
I agree with Hardcore Legend and MTH: there's no logical inconsistency with both Qui-Gon and Anakin not disappearing, yet becoming force ghosts. (What is mesa sayin'? This sounds more like a Bizzle comment than a THX one).

But I do feel that Qui-Gon, sensing he might fail, prepared for the other side in advance, while Maul was held back by the red force-field. It wasn't explicit and could be interpreted in many ways but it was reminiscent of Ben's calm before he disappeared in ANH.

To be honest the whole Qui-Gon discovers the secret of immortality sub-plot isn't too hot. It would be better just to cut it than run rings trying to explain it. (Aah, that's more like it, THX).

I agree. Did you catch that, InfoDroid? I AGREE.

We are indeed removing the entire aspect of Qui-Gon discovering the path to immortality. However, one of the more interesting aspects of this (which was unfortunately deleted from the final film) was the fact that the Sith were after immortality, but would never achieve it through their selfish means. In contrast, the Jedi obtain it through their selflessness. This is a powerful plot point that I wish we could bring back to the forefront, but the way things are looking in our saga it’s looking like it will be just as ignored as in the official version. It doesn’t necessarily have to be through Qui-Gon, but things are obviously set up that way.
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THX: To be honest the whole Qui-Gon discovers the secret of immortality sub-plot isn't too hot. It would be better just to cut it than run rings trying to explain it. (Aah, that's more like it, THX).

***

Lol!

To be fair, I know a lot of fans had real gripes about the "disappearing Jedi" rules. But I was never one of them. I'd be for cutting the reference too if I thought we could get everyone on board.


---

THX: But I do feel that Qui-Gon, sensing he might fail, prepared for the other side in advance, while Maul was held back by the red force-field. It wasn't explicit and could be interpreted in many ways but it was reminiscent of Ben's calm before he disappeared in ANH.

***

We haven't gotten to the real "bible" version of Episode I yet, but I'm hoping to exploit that "meditation moment" to establish a link between Qui Gonn and Anakin -- he's reaching out to Anakin there and trying to help the "chosen one" as he battles Maul. He's collecting himself and conserving energy -- not preparing to lose. The big difference between this and Obi Wan's death is Obi Wan had a practical purpose for letting himself be cut down. I think you're suggesting that Qui Gonn is somehow snatching a small victory from the mouth of defeat -- a defeat that was by no means certain since Obi Wan shortly dispatches Maul all by himself.

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It's interesting you guys brought this up today, because I just captured some great Liam Neeson dialogue from Batman Begins. Some of these could be applied to Anakin, some to Obi-Wan in any Episode, in part or in whole. Here are some of the individual quotes:

"What you really fear is inside yourself."

"You fear your own power, you fear your anger, the drive to do great or terrible things. Now you must journey inwards. You are ready. Breathe ... Breeeeeathe... Breathe in your fears."

"If you make yourself more than just a man, if you devote yourself to an ideal, and if they can't stop you... Then you become something else entirely."

"You have learned to bury your guilt with anger. I will teach you to confront it, and to face the truth."

"You were lost, but I believed in you. I took away your fear and I showed you a path. You were my greatest student."

"There are those without decency who must be fought without hesitation and without pity."

"Your anger gives you great power. But, if you let it... It will destroy you. As it almost did me."

"I know the rage that drives you. That impossible anger strangling the grief, until the memory of your loved ones is just poison in your veins. And one day you catch yourself wishing that the person you love had never existed ... so you'd be spared your pain."

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MTH, I remember your Qui-Gon helps Anakin post from Trooperman's thread - it sounded great, as I recall, so bring on the TPM round-up! Did you just say you'd be for cutting the reference too if you thought we could get everyone on board? Do you mean what CC means? And CC, you say "We are indeed removing the entire aspect of Qui-Gon discovering the path to immortality." When was that posted, did I miss something? How does this tie in with your force-ghost finale?

In the OT, it seemed like all Jedi (as opposed to Sith) had the power to become force ghosts. We only saw three because they were the only three in the OT. It seems like the simplest way would be to forget about Qui-Gon discovering the immortality secret, since this does not happen onscreen, even in the PT. Is this what you had in mind?