marvolo:The reason I didn't include anything of the birth of Vader is because I had keeping the "I am your father" revelation as best as possible in mind. I kind of like the first Darth Vader scene to be the part in Episode 4 where he bursts into the Tantive IV. I think that is a fantastic introduction scene.
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I think it is kind of cool not to know what happens or even how he survives. In the next movie a new villian is introduced, and as time goes on we slowly learn it is actually Anakin.
I guess I just take it for granted that the big secret can't be preserved. Luke's last name kinda gives it away in my opinion.
Hmm...it wouldn't if you omit the references to "Lord Vader" in ROTS, but even then the statements of the Imperial March in the PT don't help, although they could be construed as representative of the dark times that are coming, and Anakin's conflict as a result of the circumstances leading to that. But you do still find yourself thinking, "Wait, where'd this Vader guy come from?" after Palpatine made such a big deal about Anakin in the PT.
marvolo:The birth of Vader felt like a rushed CG fest to me. It is like Palps had an instant Vader maker lying around for just such an occasion. Throw in the half dead, charred body of a fallen comrade and presto! Out pops your very own Sith Lord! I just didn't like how he spends a few minutes on the table as a bunch of droids throw artificial appendages on him, and slip a leather suit right onto his freshly burnt and still melty skin. Then he stands up and everything is fine. I would have imagined months of rebuilding with some of the republics finest physicians.
Ha! This made me laugh. Yeah, it is kinda implausible, and the scene is probably meant to represent the passage of a LOT of time. Unfortunately, George got to the last half of Episode III and suddenly realized he still had to set up a whole bunch of stuff for the OT.
Yeah. He should've shot everything so we could have the huge four-hour deluxe edition DVD. Man, now that would provide some good fan editing material.
Musicman:Thanks, to everybody! So are you thinking we should change the start of the "I Am the Senate" cue? That section from ESB does a rising string thing that would show that something's going down, but I don't know about the beginning of the IATS cue.
I really haven't started thinking about the music yet. I've been thinking that the video editing needs to come first, with the sound next, and the music last. Is that the wrong way to look at this?
Not necessarily, although there are definitely advantages to getting music set up early, as Trooperman pointed out. Also, the more of the music we have figured out earlier on, the easier it will be to sort out when finding cues for scenes that need to be "re-scored." Particularly, I'm going to need to know what scenes or segments will be totally omitted so that I can put the cues originally recorded for those scenes in the list of usable cues.
Musicman:
I think all the Rebellion scenes should be reinserted like in ADM's cut.
Going from memory, I thought some of the Rebellion's scenes were weak, especially the one in Padme's apartment. They tend to be boring and uneventful.
Well, the biggest thing going for them (aside from the setting up of the jealousy in the meeting with Palpatine) is that it makes Bail's involvement in the final third of the movie make a ton more sense than it does in the theatrical cut. I know when I first saw ROTS and Bail came on the scene after Order 66, I was thinking, "Wait, it's been a while since I've seen AOTC. Did I miss something?" Not so in ADM's extended cut with the Rebellion scenes. Also, we might be able to use some kind of cues with the Rebel Fanfare spice it up a bit--there are gentle flute statements of it in the Leia's theme section of the ANH end credits, and I think they might be in the Princess Leia's Theme concert suite as well, just for starters. I think they're worth working with.
Musicman:
Now I'm wondering what we want to do about the whole bank dialogue. I've heard other people talk about how it was rough to see Anakin burning up and having Obi-Wan yell at him at the same time. So we need to figure out what's going on with Obi-Wan. What's his thought process--does he have a thought process at this point, or is he just kind of snapping? He hasn't been able to get Anakin to stop, and he's just breaking under the strain. I don't know. I'm really not sure about it.
To me, Obi Wan is having a difficult moment where he has to come to terms with what he's been forced to do. He told Yoda this would be hard for him, and it is. He's probably still torn about whether he should help Anakin or finish him off. But then the lava makes his decision for him. That's really the reason I think he should wait to pick up the saber. If he's in the middle of this really emotional decision, is he gonna stop and say, "Oh, wait, let me pick up this saber".
Ha! Yeah, I see that. As I thought about it, that moment was really rough for me (and it doesn't make much sense to just pick up the saber like that. It should definitely be at the end, when he walks away.), but I think it'll really help it in our cut when up to that point, he's been really reaching out to Anakin, and Anakin keeps pushing back. As it is, Obi-Wan almost seems kind of cocky most of the time. It's weird.
As a sidenote: I think another thing we should do in Obi-Wan's arc here, is when he goes to see Padme, when she asks him, "You're going to kill him, aren't you?", cut out Obi-Wan's line, "He has become a great threat." There's enough there to make a nice juicy pause. She asks him the question, and there's no answer. He doesn't know yet, really. Just another part of that eliminating his decisiveness.
Adywan:I think the Maul/ Grievous idea could be pulled off by adding a couple of small scenes at the end of EP1. after the scene where Palpatine arrives there could be a small shot of a droid hovering over the pit where Maul fell and you see it go down or better still you see it emerging from the pit with the body of Maul, then cut to the obi-wan/yoda scene.
If this scene is in TPM, would we go a whole movie - AOTC - without hearing of Maul/Grievous again? That seems like a bit of a disconnect.
Yeah, that's the whole point, really. Because you've got that gap. If I recall, that was part of the point of having a whole new scene--so we have something in Episode II that bridges the Maul/Grievous issue from TPM to ROTS. But adywan has a good point--if we've got some kind of establishment at the Episode I that we may not have seen the last of Maul, then it would give a lot more weight to just a snippet of dialogue at the end of SOTDS. Because as it is, if Palpatine just says something like Trooperman was thinking, then you've got something, but if there's that stuff at the end of TPM, then the attentive viewer could get the gears working and thinking, "Wait a minute--holy crap! He's talking about Maul!"
So, yes, any new scenes should be at the end of the TPM, but you should still have some kind of dialogue in the Coruscant conversation. Now, adywan: in suggesting these scenes, are you implying that this may actually be possible? shanep mentioned the recovery droids from the extended pod race, and that's a good possibility. I personally don't want that bit in the pod race, so they would be, in our cut, previously unseen droids. Any other ideas for execution of these scenes?
lth:there's no reason, really, why Maul can't be called Maul in Ep1 and Grievous in Ep3.
This is another way to go. Some people were expecting it would happen like this in ROTS anyway. This way it's more of a surprise to the viewer and we have another "reveal" moment. Grievous can drop a few hints to Obi Wan - and to us - at the beginning of the movie. Then the truch comes out during the big fight, like Adywan suggests.
